Sad we even need mandates.

 

If people would just get the jab, we wouldn't need mandates.  Same with masks.  It's just become political. 

49 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wish the term "anti vaxxer" would be no longer used as IMO most that won't have a covid vaccine are immunized for many other diseases, ergo not anti vaccine at all, just specifically the covid vaccine. 

Which makes it even weirder that they joined the anti-vaxx Covid [deleted].

 

In America, most of these low information types oppose  the vaccine for political reasons, ie they think if the epidemic spreads, the current administration will look bad. Few consider that one consequence of their actions may be death.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/

A post making unsourced claims about various groups supposedly exempted from COVID vaccine mandates in the U.S. has been removed.

 

This Reuters "fact check" article addresses those issues:

 

Fact Check-White House, CDC, FDA, NIAID, Pfizer and Moderna employees are subject to vaccine mandates

 

"The executive order requiring federal workers to be vaccinated applies to White House, FDA, CDC and NIAID. Pfizer and Moderna have established independent mandates for their employees."

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-mandate/fact-check-white-house-cdc-fda-niaid-pfizer-and-moderna-employees-are-subject-to-vaccine-mandates-idUSL1N2QX1YI

 

While we recognize there are strongly held views on these issues, I'm going to caution posters on both sides of the debate here to avoid using derogatory and inflammatory terms toward opposing posters and others holding opposing views.

 

Posts that continue to include those kinds of derogatory and inflammatory references toward opponents will be removed, and posters who continue to make them will face warnings/suspensions.

 

Keep the debate civil.

 

12 hours ago, Scott said:

At the time, the speculation was because she had lived through the Spanish Flu, maybe she had some immunity.  That's highly unlikely, but something very positive was at play because she pretty much defied all the odds.  

Not highly unlikely at all...

 

Read up on the ages of those who died from the Spanish Flu.  An unusually large percenatge of younger people died - quite possibly because they had not been alive when the previous large coronavirus outbreak ocurred (late 1800s).

 

PH

58 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Not highly unlikely at all...

 

Read up on the ages of those who died from the Spanish Flu.  An unusually large percenatge of younger people died - quite possibly because they had not been alive when the previous large coronavirus outbreak ocurred (late 1800s).

 

PH

I have read up on the Spanish Flu.  The influenza viruses are from a different family than Coronaviruses and there is nothing to suggest that there is cross immunity.  That said, it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.  There is some evidence that those who get a Flu shot have a better chance of avoiding Covid or its worst outcomes.  That is widely believed to be due to the fact that a Flu shot stimulates the immune system and it may be on higher alert and thus give it a little advantage should a Covid infection occur.  

 

That said, the immune system is complex and you, me and others making a guess could be right ... or we could be wrong.  

 

A lot of people have beat the odds and a lot of people who should have beat the odds with Covid didn't.  Scientists will be looking at everything that seems to affect the seriousness of an infection. 

 

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

Not highly unlikely at all...

 

Read up on the ages of those who died from the Spanish Flu.  An unusually large percenatge of younger people died - quite possibly because they had not been alive when the previous large coronavirus outbreak ocurred (late 1800s).

 

PH

As Scott has pointed out, and it can't be emphasized enough, covid viruses are very distant from flu evolutionarily speaking.

It should also be pointd out that the site of action of the covid 19 is also very different from the flu. Covid 19 is a disease of the vascular system, namely the blood vessels. Which means that it can affect any organ or part of the body where blood vessels go. In other words, just about everywhere. That's not at all the case with the flu which is primarily a respiratory ailment.

If a vaccine was developed and introduced that provided actual immunity instead of short term protection, and tested and shown to be safe, beyond the experimental stage then maybe covid fizzles out.

I notice the CDC changed their definition of "vaccine" recently on their website and substituted the word "protection" for "immunity" which is fair I suppose since immunity implies that exposure to a virus will prevent infection and the current vaccines do not do that with the current dominant covid variant. As vaccination levels increase the vast majority of infections, hospitalizations and deaths will be in the vaccinated people who while protected somewhat are not immune to covid.

On the flip side there is very low incidence of covid infection in so many African counties that have very low vaccination levels.

3 hours ago, catturd said:

If a vaccine was developed and introduced that provided actual immunity instead of short term protection, and tested and shown to be safe, beyond the experimental stage then maybe covid fizzles out.

I notice the CDC changed their definition of "vaccine" recently on their website and substituted the word "protection" for "immunity" which is fair I suppose since immunity implies that exposure to a virus will prevent infection and the current vaccines do not do that with the current dominant covid variant. As vaccination levels increase the vast majority of infections, hospitalizations and deaths will be in the vaccinated people who while protected somewhat are not immune to covid.

On the flip side there is very low incidence of covid infection in so many African counties that have very low vaccination levels.

Your reply is pure lies. The fact is that the vaccine prevents infection in most cases. Your word play on absolutism and claim that current vaccines do not prevent infection clearly implies that they NEVER do and this is clear to anybody with a modicum of comprehension ability. You must qualify your statement with words like possible and occasionally which convey the truth or your claim is just a lie by omission.

 

While data show the coronavirus shots are preventing infections in many outbreak scenarios, the fact breakthrough infections are happening doesn’t suggest failure, experts say.

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html

 

Despite the high efficacy of the BNT162b2 messenger RNA vaccine against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), rare breakthrough infections have been reported

 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2109072

 

...fully vaccinated people (n = 55 962) were two-thirds less likely to harbor SARS-CoV-2 compared with unvaccinated people...

 

This suggests that people who are fully vaccinated are less likely to become infected and if infected, will be contagious for shorter periods than unvaccinated people. This is supported by transmission studies that confirm that vaccinated people are less likely to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to close contacts compared with unvaccinated people, including the Delta variant

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2786040

4 hours ago, catturd said:

 

 

4 hours ago, catturd said:

I notice the CDC changed their definition of "vaccine" recently on their website and substituted the word "protection" for "immunity" which is fair I suppose since immunity implies that exposure to a virus will prevent infection and the current vaccines do not do that with the current dominant covid variant. 

You noticed that? Really? Do you spend a lot of time reading the CDC site?

 

Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

 

much more likely that your internet friends sent you some propaganda. Don’t pay any attention to them, they lie to you.

4 hours ago, catturd said:

 

On the flip side there is very low incidence of covid infection in so many African counties that have very low vaccination levels.

Yep. Tanzania has had very few cases of Covid, not so puzzling since they closed the only lab that can do RT-PCR tests.

15 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Yep. Tanzania has had very few cases of Covid, not so puzzling since they closed the only lab that can do RT-PCR tests.

I believe the President decided that Covid wasn't real and it didn't exist in Tanzania and they were for a time at least, not allowed to count or record cases.  Then the President died of, you guessed it, Covid.

 

On 11/17/2021 at 12:48 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I wish the term "anti vaxxer" would be no longer used as IMO most that won't have a covid vaccine are immunized for many other diseases, ergo not anti vaccine at all, just specifically the covid vaccine. Considering those that use the term are always going on about misinformation, IMO they are engaged in misinformation themselves, by using that term to describe the covid vaccine hesitant.

Posting such derogatory insults does nothing to advance the case for vaccination. I hear people on talk back radio saying they decided not to have it because they didn't like the bullying given to the un vaccinated for covid, of which there is much going on, encouraged IMO by certain media presenters that shout down any that dare to propose an alternate viewpoint.

If such bullying continues, IMO it does not bode well for society.

Well, they really can't travel to the past and get themselves unvaccinated. Let's see going forward how the rate of the uptake of vaccinations is affected. The covid-19 pandemic has helped popular the general anti-vaccine stance of fanatics like Robert Kennedy junior.

 

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

 

You noticed that? Really? Do you spend a lot of time reading the CDC site?

 

Vaccine: A preparation that is used to stimulate the body’s immune response against diseases. Vaccines are usually administered through needle injections, but some can be administered by mouth or sprayed into the nose.

 

much more likely that your internet friends sent you some propaganda. Don’t pay any attention to them, they lie to you.

Ok, "correct" this for me, ask your smart friends. And yes, I read this on the CDC site after noticing it reported in the WAPO.

As per CDC:

• immunity: "Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease."
• protection: "Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease."

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Yep. Tanzania has had very few cases of Covid, not so puzzling since they closed the only lab that can do RT-PCR tests.

Just so you know, Tanzania is not the only country in Africa, there are 53 more. Maybe ask your friends to help you with that.

https://www.worldometers.info/geography/how-many-countries-in-africa/

17 minutes ago, catturd said:

Ok, "correct" this for me, ask your smart friends. And yes, I read this on the CDC site after noticing it reported in the WAPO.

As per CDC:

• immunity: "Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce immunity to a specific disease."
• protection: "Vaccination: The act of introducing a vaccine into the body to produce protection from a specific disease."

So…. You think protection from a disease is a bad thing?

7 minutes ago, catturd said:

Just so you know, Tanzania is not the only country in Africa, there are 53 more. Maybe ask your friends to help you with that.

https://www.worldometers.info/geography/how-many-countries-in-africa/

So, you are hanging your hat on low numbers of cases from countries that don’t test much. What’s your point?

For the record, if you don’t vaccinate, you have neither protection or immunity from a disease, until you catch it.

7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

So, you are hanging your hat on low numbers of cases from countries that don’t test much. What’s your point?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Tanzania#November_2021

10 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

So…. You think protection from a disease is a bad thing?

So…. You think protection from a disease is a bad thing?

 

Those are you words. Nice try.

 

I am merely offering my input to the OP's query. You seem intent on obfuscating, deflecting, altering narrative, etc.

On 10/24/2021 at 1:42 PM, Jeffr2 said:

Yeah, much better to listen to internet warriors and misinformation on social media.

Actually I stay tuned to the TAT predictions for professional misinformation. 

Just now, catturd said:

So…. You think protection from a disease is a bad thing?

 

Those are you words. Nice try.

Not too many other rational arguments for nit picking about whether a vaccine offers a high level of protection vs immunity.

2 minutes ago, catturd said:

So…. You think protection from a disease is a bad thing?

 

Those are you words. Nice try.

You don’t seem to have a point other than “I don’t like vaccines because reasons”.

9 hours ago, catturd said:

If a vaccine was developed and introduced that provided actual immunity instead of short term protection, and tested and shown to be safe, beyond the experimental stage then maybe covid fizzles out.

Well this was the first vaccine tested for HIV and that was back in 1987 and we are still waiting 

 

1 minute ago, Longwood50 said:

Well this was the first vaccine tested for HIV and that was back in 1987 and we are still waiting 

 

"good things come to those who wait..."

If you check further you will notice vaccines takes YEARS to complete.

5 minutes ago, catturd said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Tanzania#November_2021

It looks like the new administration recognizes that Covid is a threat, and is protecting citizens via vaccination.

6 minutes ago, catturd said:

So…. You think protection from a disease is a bad thing?

 

Those are you words. Nice try.

Vaccination saves lives by protecting against infection.

 

Misinformation kills, by convincing people not to vaccinate.

23 minutes ago, catturd said:

Just so you know, Tanzania is not the only country in Africa, there are 53 more. Maybe ask your friends to help you with that.

Yes and North Korea reportedly has zero cases of covid and China with ten cities that have a population of 8 million or more has one of the lowest rates of covid infection despite the Chinese vaccines showing the lowest efficacy. 

As has been said there are lies, d**mned lies, and then statistics. 

6 minutes ago, catturd said:

"good things come to those who wait..."

If you check further you will notice vaccines takes YEARS to complete.

No, vaccines can be developed and  produced quickly but "testing" takes years to validate their effectiveness and safety.  The Covid vaccines were done in months. However they did not go through the normal decade long testing to validate their effectiveness or long term safety because of the "emergency use" 

Now in terms of your comment about years, I might point out that 1987 was 44 years ago. 

6 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

No, vaccines can be developed and  produced quickly but "testing" takes years to validate their effectiveness and safety.  The Covid vaccines were done in months. However they did not go through the normal decade long testing to validate their effectiveness or long term safety because of the "emergency use" 

Now in terms of your comment about years, I might point out that 1987 was 44 years ago. 

Now in terms of your comment about years, I might point out that 1987 was 44 years ago. 

 

It was?