Elderly expats dazed and confused over insurance, ‘retirement visas’ and COVID

[silverhawk_usa]

I have lived in Thailand 18 years and there seems to be constant confusion over Non-Imm A  and Non-Imm OA Visas.  This post and articles added some confusion for me.  The nomenclature is always corrected when someone says they received a new Visa when in fact it is an 'extension to stay".  My passport has an Non Imm O-A VISA.  I have been here all these years on a Retirement extension and the last two a Marriage extension.  No where does my passport show that these extensions changed my visa from an O-A to an O due to these extensions.  Can anyone who actually knows clarify this??

[jerrymahoney]

There are 2 reports in this topic that you might only need to buy the $50K insurance upon re-entry up to the date that you have a  paid-for ticket exiting the Kingdom.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1238099-need-insurance-when-returning-to-thailand/

[smedly]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

There is currently no requirement for anyone on a Non Immigrant O extension to have health insurance

but they are required to maintain a hefty bank balance of Bt400k-800k for much of the year unless the can meet minimum income requirements or are married to a Thai

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, silverhawk_usa said:

No where does my passport show that these extensions changed my visa from an O-A to an O due to these extensions.

Because it hasn't changed your visa. You have an extension to stay for reason of marriage (previously retirement) based on your Non O-A visa. An extension doesn't change your original visa.

[theoldgit]

31 minutes ago, mokwit said:

Yes, but let's make it reciprocal - no going to other countries to have your baby so that they have citizenship automatically of that country and no land ownership (pretty much every elite Thai has their London property).

 

Non residents in the UK are already charged 150% of the actual cost of medical treatment if they use the NHS whilst visiting, if they don't pay they can be denied a visa or not allowed to enter if not a Visa National.

 

Foreigners settling in the UK pay a NHS Surcharge for their first five years of resisdency, even if they're paying taxes in their own right. 

 

I'd be more than happy to pay an annual fee for access to the Thai health system, but it's highly unlikely to happen and if it did it wouldn't be capped at five years.

[canopus1969]

38 minutes ago, lexilis said:

I have a valid Thai Social Security card and am on O retirement extensions. Don't need WP or letter.

Can I ask when your social security card was issued?

[smedly]

53 minutes ago, Live Long and Prosper said:

There country there laws, what does an alien have to have, to go and stay long term in the country of your passport? Should we start there saying how unfair it is?

There where

[yang123]

^^  And how was it issued?

[smedly]

45 minutes ago, Chad3000 said:

Unpaid medical is a total red herring to be polite. We all know this. Most hospitals will literally escort you to ATM before discharge. No joke.

correct, Insurance is big business, they make the requirements as difficult as possible to encourage people to take out a Thai policy - I wonder how many government officials or families are involved in Thai Insurance

[Mr Meeseeks]

1 hour ago, Orinoco said:

Deep down they despise you, and have a deep seated jealousy of the

money you have. ( as we never worked hard for it )

Speak for yourself I work very hard for every Satang I have earned.

 

It's the other way round from what I have seen here. 

[Chad3000]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

correct, Insurance is big business, they make the requirements as difficult as possible to encourage people to take out a Thai policy - I wonder how many government officials or families are involved in Thai Insurance

Not only involved directly but for instance in the United States lobbyists have influence on Congress people and then turn create laws that insurance companies like and prosper under.

 

You can bet that it's 5x more opaque here and probably twice as dirty.

[smedly]

30 minutes ago, bdenner said:

This still doesn't answer my question.

Hypothetical:-

I renew my 'O' Visa extension for another year on Dec 1, 2021.

I visit my home country in Jan 2022 for a month with a Re-entry Permit for my return.

Do I buy $50K worth(less) of insurance to cover me for 10 months to 2 Dec, 2022 (Re-entry Permit & Extension expiry)? Or be honest with them as I actually do not intend to travel again for at least another year beyond that. Which really means I don't know how long I will be in country. BUT I assume one has to be covered for the length of their current extension??

 

Currently I have no intention or need to travel until these slow learners stop confusing me.

 

the insurance you are referring to is covid specific and is currently required for all foreigners entering Thailand regardless of visa, but of course it does not include cheap slave labour entering from neighbouring countries

[smedly]

32 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

This thread is about retirees not tourists.

it matters not a jot - read my above post

[Orinoco]

6 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Speak for yourself I work very hard for every Satang I have earned.

 

It's the other way round from what I have seen here. 

yes i'm sure you do, like many others do and have,

I could have worded that better, i meant the Thai's think we get money for free with out 

working hard for it. 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

it matters not a jot - read my above post

The point being until we have a Thai ID card (not the silly, useless pink thing, an actual Thai ID card), then we are only temporary here. 

 

The sooner we all understand and reconcile ourselves with that the better. 

[smedly]

27 minutes ago, silverhawk_usa said:

I have lived in Thailand 18 years and there seems to be constant confusion over Non-Imm A  and Non-Imm OA Visas.  This post and articles added some confusion for me.  The nomenclature is always corrected when someone says they received a new Visa when in fact it is an 'extension to stay".  My passport has an Non Imm O-A VISA.  I have been here all these years on a Retirement extension and the last two a Marriage extension.  No where does my passport show that these extensions changed my visa from an O-A to an O due to these extensions.  Can anyone who actually knows clarify this??

you are/where on an extension of an O-A but now marriage, you were never extending an O

[Mr Meeseeks]

1 minute ago, Orinoco said:

yes i'm sure you do, like many others do and have,

I could have worded that better, i meant the Thai's think we get money for free with out 

working hard for it. 

 

Actually many Thais recognise that in general we are much more industrious and hard working, but I get your point. 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, JohnOFphon said:

I'm here on Non O A and have bought that wonderful  (Not) insurance from LMG.

7000 a year..

If I go out with a re-entry permit does that insurance meet the needs when I return?

My current permisson to stay expires in 7 months. If LMG is as worthless as I believe...I would have to buy 7 or so months of travel insurance., or come back Visa exempt. Then convert to Non O.

Hate to lose the 7 months I have left now..

It will not meet the current entry requirement since it is less than US$50k cover.

 

Coming in visa exempt achieves nothing as all entries, including visa exempt, must show the 50K insurance.

[smedly]

6 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The point being until we have a Thai ID card (not the silly, useless pink thing, an actual Thai ID card), then we are only temporary here. 

 

The sooner we all understand and reconcile ourselves with that the better. 

indeed, most developed countries allowed people to be nationalised after a period of time - what exactly are they afraid of in Thailand, IMO anyone living here for say a continued period of say 5 years should be automatically offered nationalisation 

[MRToMRT]

1 hour ago, JohnOFphon said:

If I go out with a re-entry permit does that insurance meet the needs when I return?

It meets your O-A insurance requirements until your next extension of stay when it goes up a lot.

 

It does not meet the requirement for 50K entrance insurance to include covid. 

Its all getting more expensive.

[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, smedly said:

the insurance you are referring to is covid specific and is currently required for all foreigners entering Thailand regardless of visa, but of course it does not include cheap slave labour entering from neighbouring countries

 

The requirement has changed to general health insurance, not COVID only policy.

 

Migrant workers are required to enrol in mandatory health insurance scheme, which is basically the 30 baht system Thais have but for an annual fee. And, new entries are not being allowed. (Obviously people who enter illegally do nto meet any of the legal requirements).

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, lexilis said:

I have a valid Thai Social Security card and am on O retirement extensions. Don't need WP or letter.

 

However were you to leave the country and retrun (at this time) you would need a private insurance policy of US$50k to get in, valid for the duration of your  stay (i.e to the date your re-entry permit expires, unless yo ucan show an outbound ticket with earlier date).

 

the OP is incorrect in implying that proof of Thai SS cover meets the insurance requirement. It does not, neither for entry nor for O-A extension.

[smedly]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The requirement has changed to general health insurance, not COVID only policy.

 

Migrant workers are required to enrol in mandatory health insurance scheme, which is basically the 30 baht system Thais have but for an annual fee. And, new entries are not being allowed. (Obviously people who enter illegally do nto meet any of the legal requirements)

but must include covid

 

as for the neighbouring countries labour force - the point is why not allow those retired here to sign up to the same or even pay a little more  - even though I don't work here I bring money into the country - those from neighbouring countries earn it and take it out - which one should Thailand value the most

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, smedly said:

but must include covid

 

as for the neighbouring countries labour force - the point is why not allow those retired here to sign up to the same or even pay a little more  - even though I don't work here I bring money into the country - those from neighbouring countries earn it and take it out - which one should Thailand value the most

 

Migrant workers are young and generally fit (at least fit enough to do manual labor) and their plan is priced accordingly with no age differentials.

 

To include expats there would need to be an altogether different pricing structure varying by age and the cost differential would be huge. It would need considerable research to develop this.

 

I agree, it would be the best option  for those over 65, but no small task to develop it and to date the MoPH has not been willing to undertake this.

[John Drake]

Can't wait to see Thai Pass and the insurance requirement used with mass tourism from China. 

[smedly]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

However were you to leave the country and retrun (at this time) you would need a private insurance policy of US$50k to get in, valid for the duration of your  stay (i.e to the date your re-entry permit expires, unless yo ucan show an outbound ticket with earlier date).

 

the OP is incorrect in implying that proof of Thai SS cover meets the insurance requirement. It does not, neither for entry nor for O-A extension.

I know you are involved in the health sector Sheryl - is it insurance ?

 

you seem to be well clued in on insurance topics 

 

straight question

[smedly]

7 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Migrant workers are young and generally fit (at least fit enough to do manual labor) and their plan is priced accordingly with no age differentials.

 

To include expats there would need to be an altogether different pricing structure varying by age and the cost differential would be huge. It would need considerable research to develop this.

 

I agree, it would be the best option  for those over 65, but no small task to develop it and to date the MoPH has not been willing to undertake this.

so you don't think that those living here for XX years should automatically be rolled in ?

[jollyhangmon]

16 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It will not meet the current entry requirement since it is less than US$50k cover.

 

Coming in visa exempt achieves nothing as all entries, including visa exempt, must show the 50K insurance.

 

... but he would only have to waste his dough for a duration of 30 days instead of 7 months ... or even up to a year like other folks.

 

[Salerno]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

However were you to leave the country and retrun (at this time) you would need a private insurance policy of US$50k to get in, valid for the duration of your  stay (i.e to the date your re-entry permit expires, unless yo ucan show an outbound ticket with earlier date).

 

the OP is incorrect in implying that proof of Thai SS cover meets the insurance requirement. It does not, neither for entry nor for O-A extension.

Not with SS he doesn't, the OP is correct:

 

"Expats living and working in Thailand under a valid visa or residential permit are required to provide proof of insurance coverage in Thailand with a minimum coverage of 50,000 USD or a valid social security card or certified letter from their employer."

 

Point 1 under Documentation https://www.mfa.go.th/en/content/thailand-pass-faqs

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, bdenner said:

This still doesn't answer my question.

Hypothetical:-

I renew my 'O' Visa extension for another year on Dec 1, 2021.

I visit my home country in Jan 2022 for a month with a Re-entry Permit for my return.

Do I buy $50K worth(less) of insurance to cover me for 10 months to 2 Dec, 2022 (Re-entry Permit & Extension expiry)? Or be honest with them as I actually do not intend to travel again for at least another year beyond that. Which really means I don't know how long I will be in country. BUT I assume one has to be covered for the length of their current extension??

 

Currently I have no intention or need to travel until these slow learners stop confusing me.

 

You buy it for the time until your current extension of stay expiration date. Upon renewal no insurance needed. This  isn't a matter of honesty. Just following the current rules.