Do you need a work permit for teaching on line for English

[JustAnotherFarang]

4 hours ago, recom273 said:

Interesting, did you notice the reason he got arrested is that “a neighbour complained”

I saw a pic in a online teachers group, a note on a door, “I don’t have a problem with you teaching from home, but do you really have to scream and shout all day? - yrs neighbour” that was in a Bangkok apartment.

 

Some people just don’t use their loaf, a few people in our village know what I do, because we ask them to come and do work on the house or garden, but other than that .. I’m retired. 

There lies the problem, any complaints from Thai citizens will be investigated and Immigration will compile photographic and video evidence first before raiding you and deporting you.  Do not think for a moment you are safe, its only a matter of time before they come knocking

[Ralf001]

4 minutes ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Your work permit does not allow you to teach anywhere you choose, it is linked to a particular place and if you are found working outside of those premises you will be deported.  They are very strict regarding this rule

My work permit is not for teaching, little wonder it does not allow me to teach anywhere.

 

Did you read my post before you posted your reply ?

[JustAnotherFarang]

Just now, Ralf001 said:

My work permit is not for teaching, little wonder it does not allow me to teach anywhere.

 

Did you read my post before you posted your reply ?

Yes I did read your post which did not say what your work permit was for but irregardless, I was trying to help the original poster with pertinent information as I found myself in the same situation and had to turn to this forum for assistance in setting up a company through marriage which allowed me to teach at the premises only.  You are not allowed to work freelance as a teacher, there is no work permit to do so.

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Yes I did read your post which did not say what your work permit was for but irregardless,

there was a hint in the part where I said I was not a teacher.

[JustAnotherFarang]

3 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

there was a hint in the part where I said I was not a teacher.

I wasnt trying to assist you, I was trying to help the original poster from assuming that your comment would be applicable to his situation.  Your work permit does not allow you to work from anywhere on a freelance basis.

Edited November 6, 2021 by JustAnotherFarang

[Ralf001]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

I wasnt trying to assist you, I was trying to help the original poster from assuming that your comment would be applicable to his situation.  Your work permit does not allow you to work from anywhere on a freelance basis.

I know it does not but on a visual inspection it is not tied to any one location.

[JustAnotherFarang]

4 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

I know it does not but on a visual inspection it is not tied to any one location.

That may well be true for you but when it comes to teaching, the premises are shown as well as the employer so my point still stands.  The last thing a private teacher wants is a disgruntled thai teacher using their influence to remove the competition around them...... They dont play fair in Thailand

[bradiston]

7 hours ago, blackprince said:

Well the deportees are hardly likely to brag about it publicly are they, and the individual cases are too insignificant to get into the national press, or even the local press. The consequences of deportation are not insignificant for the deportees themselves though as I'm sure you understand.

My information comes directly from senior staff at the Ministry of Education, and that's just one three month period in one region.

My original point is crystal clear and will be obvious to anyone who actually has a work permit: your work permit covers all the work you are entitled to do. Anything outside of that is illegal.

 

Point taken. But I'm surprised there isn't at least an annual report on deportations, under all the various headings. Might make interesting reading, but where's the data? Which ministry/department?

[KhaoNiaw]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

There lies the problem, any complaints from Thai citizens will be investigated and Immigration will compile photographic and video evidence first before raiding you and deporting you.  Do not think for a moment you are safe, its only a matter of time before they come knocking

I've known three guys who've got into trouble and they were all reported by other farangs. IMO much more likely to happen than being reported by Thais.

[itsari]

On 11/5/2021 at 2:25 PM, blackprince said:

Your work permit covers the work you are legally entitled to do.

Anything outside of that is illegal.

I personally know of a bungalow compound where half the residents were teaching English online. They were all deported.

Deported for what ? 

 

[JustAnotherFarang]

16 minutes ago, itsari said:

Deported for what ? 

 

Deported for working illegally.  A work permit is issued in the employers name and only allows you to work within those premises.  You are not allowed to teach freelance in Thailand and risk arrest, a few weeks in Bangkok detention centre and then you will be deported and blacklisted for 10 years

 

 

[recom273]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

There lies the problem, any complaints from Thai citizens will be investigated and Immigration will compile photographic and video evidence first before raiding you and deporting you.  Do not think for a moment you are safe, its only a matter of time before they come knocking

Really? I know from an immigration officer that everyday they are inundated with people telling tales, through experience they find most of them dead ends, just jealous people making trouble and ignore them. 
 

If you speak to Joe public, those not connected with education or tourist management, they are oblivious of the need for visas or work permits. Until Covid came along most Thais didn’t even know the existence of online learning, I was chatting with my neighbour, a Thai teacher, she has no idea how lucrative the Chinese online market is or how we even know about teaching Chinese kids. 
 

Thanks for the warning but I don’t think I will worry about some immigration officer crawling through the overgrown scrubland next to my place with one of those long distance listening devices after 5.00 pm to record a song about bouncing kangaroos.

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Deported for working illegally.  A work permit is issued in the employers name and only allows you to work within those premises.  You are not allowed to teach freelance in Thailand and risk arrest, a few weeks in Bangkok detention centre and then you will be deported and blacklisted for 10 years

 

 

Not necessarily. A fine is more likely to be imposed these days. Those deported probably have no WP at all/on overstay. There were reports about these relaxed rules a few years ago. Still illegal, but a fine is more common than deportation. 

[stevenl]

13 hours ago, billsmart said:

How about teaching English online to someone not living in Thailand? Or, performing some other service online for someone not living in Thailand, like creating a website for them?

Doesn't matter. As long as you do the work from Thailand legally you're required to have a workpermit.

[youreavinalaff]

On 11/5/2021 at 7:33 AM, blackprince said:

By the way, the issue isn't where you are paid or where your students are, it's whether you are doing the work in Thailand or not.

There are no ifs or buts, despite the numerous shades of grey that people might try to introduce.

Actually, there is one "but": where someone who is genuinely here on vacation and continuing to teach online. But then of course it wouldn't really be a "vacation" would it.

I also know of farang teachers from government schools who were deported for teaching privately face to face in the evening, and of a couple of guys who who even set up a shopfront (quite a nice one actually, at some expense) and started teaching face to face there without a permit. They were also deported and lost all of their investment of course.

Strange how you know all these people who were deported yet there were no news storied.

 

Could you share done links? It would be interesting to read.

[ericthai]

9 hours ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Your work permit does not allow you to teach anywhere you choose, it is linked to a particular place and if you are found working outside of those premises you will be deported.  They are very strict regarding this rule

That changed a few years ago. Now if you have permission from the employer the applied for the work permit to work at another company this can be done. Also you can now have multiple locations in your work permit.  

[Scott]

Off-topic, bickering posts and replies removed.  

 

 

[ericthai]

4 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Strange how you know all these people who were deported yet there were no news storied.

 

Could you share done links? It would be interesting to read.

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/7-foreign-teachers-found-working-illegally-at-sarasas-school

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/382215

 

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/visa/government-crackdown-on-foreigners-teaching-without-work-permits

 

https://thepattayanews.com/2018/03/10/19-foreigners-arrested-overstay-working-without-work-permit/

 

also search bangkok post, I would post links for them but not allowed due to forum rules.

[youreavinalaff]

7 hours ago, ericthai said:

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/7-foreign-teachers-found-working-illegally-at-sarasas-school

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/382215

 

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/visa/government-crackdown-on-foreigners-teaching-without-work-permits

 

https://thepattayanews.com/2018/03/10/19-foreigners-arrested-overstay-working-without-work-permit/

 

also search bangkok post, I would post links for them but not allowed due to forum rules.

And which one of those articles refers to online teaching? As far as I can see, none.

[puchooay]

Does anyone know how many people teach online from their homes in Thailand?

The simple answer is NO. Nobody does. Why? Because online teaching goes on behind closed doors. Unless you are going to go out and make an announcement, no body needs to know. This is not like the scaremonger posts about people being deported for teaching at schools or in high street shopfronts. Those laws are quite clear.

 

Not long before the pandemic struck, the topic of online teaching was in news and on social media quite a lot. The usual tone was "Yes, it is illegal" and " No, it is not illegal". Even the Thai government were in  a quandary. I remember one politician even saying that there were no laws to cover online work and no punishment could be handed out. There was then the story of the probability that the government would create a digital nomad visa to facilitate such work.

 

Then it went quiet. The general consensus being, carry on with what you are doing, keep yourself to yourself and things will be fine. I taught online for 4 years, gave up recently because of the new laws in China. I taught in the comfort of my own room in our house, door closed, not making any noise and not upsetting anyone. Nobody outside of my family had a clue what I was doing. If they asked, I was talking to friends and family in other parts of the world. Not that the average villager in our village would care less if I was teaching kids in China.

 

In a nutshell, carry on teaching online if you can keep it to yourself. I think in the not too distant future the government will come up with a visa for digital nomads. There will likely be Thai tax implications attached. If or when the government realises how much extra income they can generate from this they will implement it.

[ericthai]

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

And which one of those articles refers to online teaching? As far as I can see, none.

teaching is working so a work permit is needed online or not.  Just like everything in Thailand all depends who catches you what happens.  

[puchooay]

4 hours ago, ericthai said:

teaching is working so a work permit is needed online or not.  Just like everything in Thailand all depends who catches you what happens.  

I guess you don't really know and are just assuming. As you can see from my previous post, even MPs were saying that there us no rule to cover online work. That the rules for teaching in bricks and mortar schools in Thailand cannot be applied to online teaching.

[jwest10]

17 hours ago, puchooay said:

Does anyone know how many people teach online from their homes in Thailand?

The simple answer is NO. Nobody does. Why? Because online teaching goes on behind closed doors. Unless you are going to go out and make an announcement, no body needs to know. This is not like the scaremonger posts about people being deported for teaching at schools or in high street shopfronts. Those laws are quite clear.

 

Not long before the pandemic struck, the topic of online teaching was in news and on social media quite a lot. The usual tone was "Yes, it is illegal" and " No, it is not illegal". Even the Thai government were in  a quandary. I remember one politician even saying that there were no laws to cover online work and no punishment could be handed out. There was then the story of the probability that the government would create a digital nomad visa to facilitate such work.

 

Then it went quiet. The general consensus being, carry on with what you are doing, keep yourself to yourself and things will be fine. I taught online for 4 years, gave up recently because of the new laws in China. I taught in the comfort of my own room in our house, door closed, not making any noise and not upsetting anyone. Nobody outside of my family had a clue what I was doing. If they asked, I was talking to friends and family in other parts of the world. Not that the average villager in our village would care less if I was teaching kids in China.

 

In a nutshell, carry on teaching online if you can keep it to yourself. I think in the not too distant future the government will come up with a visa for digital nomads. There will likely be Thai tax implications attached. If or when the government realises how much extra income they can generate from this they will implement it.

puchooay
No disrespect to you at all but doing things quietly  in a village and yeah wagging tongues etc but up to individuals for sure and agree with much of your posts.

 

[JustAnotherFarang]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:09 PM, recom273 said:

Really? I know from an immigration officer that everyday they are inundated with people telling tales, through experience they find most of them dead ends, just jealous people making trouble and ignore them. 
 

If you speak to Joe public, those not connected with education or tourist management, they are oblivious of the need for visas or work permits. Until Covid came along most Thais didn’t even know the existence of online learning, I was chatting with my neighbour, a Thai teacher, she has no idea how lucrative the Chinese online market is or how we even know about teaching Chinese kids. 
 

Thanks for the warning but I don’t think I will worry about some immigration officer crawling through the overgrown scrubland next to my place with one of those long distance listening devices after 5.00 pm to record a song about bouncing kangaroos.

Im talking from a personal point of view and this is indeed what happened to me.  I had been working for many many years under the radar and even taught children from the immigration department.  One day a neighbour who is a hairdresser came to speak to my wife and said that the immigration team had been asking questions about me and that other neighbours had observed them driving past my home during lesson times tsking photos and videos.  I immediately shuttered the business and had to turn to this forum for help and assistance in getting myself registered as a company and obtaining a work permit as an advisor for students wishing to pursue studies abroad.  It was an incredibly stressful time and to this day I cannot be certain who it was that made any complaint.  My wife thinks it was the parent who worked at Immigration.  If you wish to know more about this you are welcome to ask

[puchooay]

1 hour ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Im talking from a personal point of view and this is indeed what happened to me.  I had been working for many many years under the radar and even taught children from the immigration department.  One day a neighbour who is a hairdresser came to speak to my wife and said that the immigration team had been asking questions about me and that other neighbours had observed them driving past my home during lesson times tsking photos and videos.  I immediately shuttered the business and had to turn to this forum for help and assistance in getting myself registered as a company and obtaining a work permit as an advisor for students wishing to pursue studies abroad.  It was an incredibly stressful time and to this day I cannot be certain who it was that made any complaint.  My wife thinks it was the parent who worked at Immigration.  If you wish to know more about this you are welcome to ask

You appear to have been teaching face to face, in a room visible from the road passing your house. Of course people are going to know.

 

The OP is asking about online teaching. He will likely be teaching students from other countries, in the confines of his own home behind closed doors. Immigration will not be able to rake videos or photos. They would not find out about it and, as previously stated, do not have a law with which to prosecute digital nomads.

 

It's a different kettle of fish.

Edited November 8, 2021 by puchooay

[JustAnotherFarang]

24 minutes ago, puchooay said:

You appear to have been teaching face to face, in a room visible from the road passing your house. Of course people are going to know.

 

The OP is asking about online teaching. He will likely be teaching students from other countries, in the confines of his own home behind closed doors. Immigration will not be able to rake videos or photos. They would not find out about it and, as previously stated, do not have a law with which to prosecute digital nomads.

 

It's a different kettle of fish.

You are right but pay heed to the fact that Immigration move quietly in the shadows.  If they have their suspicions they will investigate and then conduct a raid as its beneficial to their career, bonuses and promotions for catching the bad farang.

[puchooay]

13 minutes ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

You are right but pay heed to the fact that Immigration move quietly in the shadows.  If they have their suspicions they will investigate and then conduct a raid as its beneficial to their career, bonuses and promotions for catching the bad farang.

That's quite funny. You make it sound like we are all hiding out to cross the border illegally or something similar.

 

Truth be told, immigration are not really interested in any farang who is earning a few quid teaching online. Especially when most of the teaching is 4pm to 9pm in the week or mornings and afternoons at the weekend, their time off.

 

You were in full view, it appears during office hours, earning Thai baht from Thai people. There is no question that is illegal if you don't have a work permit.

 

You were grassed up as you were doing it in full view. Could have been anyone but likely a lady in the village who was jealous of your wife having a husband that earns good money. That is the first place I would look, someone who holds a grudge.

 

Had you been in a quite room, doors closed, no one would have known.

[RJRS1301]

36 minutes ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

You are right but pay heed to the fact that Immigration move quietly in the shadows.  If they have their suspicions they will investigate and then conduct a raid as its beneficial to their career, bonuses and promotions for catching the bad farang.

You mean the ones breaching the conditions of their permits, or just not having one?????

 

[JeffersLos]

They aren't working in Thailand, they're working in cyberspace. 

[recom273]

3 hours ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Im talking from a personal point of view and this is indeed what happened to me.  I had been working for many many years under the radar and even taught children from the immigration department.  One day a neighbour who is a hairdresser came to speak to my wife and said that the immigration team had been asking questions about me and that other neighbours had observed them driving past my home during lesson times tsking photos and videos.  I immediately shuttered the business and had to turn to this forum for help and assistance in getting myself registered as a company and obtaining a work permit as an advisor for students wishing to pursue studies abroad.  It was an incredibly stressful time and to this day I cannot be certain who it was that made any complaint.  My wife thinks it was the parent who worked at Immigration.  If you wish to know more about this you are welcome to ask

The OP is about WP for online work, I was talking about online work as I am an online tutor .. You quoted me and told me that immigration would be hunting me down and investigating me. 

 

Quote

Do not think for a moment you are safe, its only a matter of time before they come knocking

You had a very illegal public facing tutor business (without any off the necessary documents, certificates, and approvals?) I have read your posts in the past. You were competing with Thai teachers, many of who offer after school tutoring or run cram schools. What did you expect? but that's completely different from the topic of discussion.

 

I agree with both @jwest10 and @puchooay if you keep it quiet and don't brag to anyone, then the locals will leave you alone, I enjoy the privacy of my own compound in the countryside, others may find anonymity in the city. I don't think there is a grey area to this, I know what I am doing is outside the law and I take steps to mitigate those risks, but please, no one is going to come knocking.