Is this the end of Thailand as a Retirement Destination

[HappyExpat57]

Knowing what I know now, I would have chosen a different country for retirement and just come to visit Thailand; and I wouldn't EVEN visit now under the current ridiculous requirements and nothing to do once I got here. People who say it hasn't changed are frogs in a pot of water as it is slowly being brought to a boil.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, HappyExpat57 said:

Knowing what I know now, I would have chosen a different country for retirement and just come to visit Thailand; and I wouldn't EVEN visit now under the current ridiculous requirements and nothing to do once I got here. People who say it hasn't changed are frogs in a pot of water as it is slowly being brought to a boil.

Bingo!

[robblok]

31 minutes ago, Salerno said:

That's a furphy. Personally I agree with insurance being mandatory or as an option (for the "I self insure" mob) a deposit into a government controlled fund.

It was the reason that was given, and there are figures on the loss. I understand with covid they saw it as a good chance to use it. Also with covid the risk of medical cost is now higher. 

 

 

[robblok]

38 minutes ago, clivebaxter said:

Good luck with insuring yourself aged 80, you wont be sounding so smug then

Im not smug at all, it sucks but its a result of your decision to retire in a foreign country.  

 

Thing is other countries where you pay taxes for insurance they even it out. So when your young you pay too much tax and later when old you use a lot more but you paid for it when young. The moment you leave you lose those rights. Its your own choice.

 

So then all of a sudden you go to an insurer and it all costs a lot more as you go into it at a much higher age. Its just the way of the world and anyone retiring either needs money in the bank or a good insurance.

 

So what do you suggest ? for people at 80 no insurance and then let Thailand pay for them or what ? Why would Thailand pay for people who have not paid into the system. 

 

So what is your suggestion to cover health costs of older expats ? I am waiting. (pretty sure most want someone else take the hit)

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Absolutely not, it is just a blanket rule and the long stayers got caught with the rest. The insurance requirements for entry don't take into account that some people live here and pay general health insurance yearly. IMO this is just a transient thing and the insurance requirements for entry will be dropped in the months coming.

Lets hope so, i pay insurance and always have, its part of being an expat. But now because of those stupid rules that don't take into account year policies i can get in trouble. 

[sirineou]

We are arguing about the requirements but that's not the only concern. These are the requirements now, what about next month? Or next year or the year after?it seems to change every month,or year, how can you make long term plans ,if the rules keep changing? 

[Kwasaki]

29 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You support them financially obviously.

Only the Mrs. 

I do buy locally though.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Kwasaki

[JustAnotherHun]

20 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The UK already is, NHS surcharge approx 500GBP/year.

No exclusions, full coverage, and after 5 years when you get citizenship free.

Not same, but comparable in Germany.

But that was not my question.

Would you like to welcome each foreigner from any country as a long term guest or retiree if he met GB's minimal income?

[IsaanAussie]

Most countries including Thailand, have public and private health systems with different price points. It may be feasible that the public system pricing could be used to develop a basic health insurance offered by the health department to foreign nationals on long stay visas. I for one would not be against paying the average cost of health by capita here to get basic cover. That is, pay the annual cost based on my age as a fee to the government. 

For those who want private cover let them enter insurance company plans. Perhaps some form of gap insurance could be offered to those covered by the government plan. 

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I don't agree that current health insurance requirements are due to 'absconders'.

 

 

Try getting into a hospital with out first paying or having your credit card swiped...............................

Last year i was taken ill first night in private hospital ,was only asked for money when they gave me the bill ,very high ,transfered to Chonburi heart hospital ,my wife and son dealt with everything ,again not asked to pay until i left 3 days later, much much much cheaper and cannot for a moment complain about how i was treated.

Never ever been asked to pay up front or show my debit card 

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

This shows they are still trying to make Thailand attractive to expats.

Hilarious. when bank  account guaranteed  to just 1million now is  it.

[RichardColeman]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

The reason we are now have to come up with proof of insurance is because people have not been able to pay bills or did runners. You see it pop up in Thaivisa a lot. 

I think I worked it out as something as daft as 10 baht at arrivals for all tourists would cover that loss - they need to stop making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Most hospital losses I imagine comes from dodgy motorbikes and thais hitting tourists - like themselves - on the roads. Anyone involved in an accident in thailand that was NOT their own fault should get free health care. Take those cases out and I dare say the amount needed at immigration would be about 5 baht

 

 

[HAPPYNUFF]

1.  Next time you  go to any hospital for treatment, just try doing a runner, and see  how far you get past  those lovely  "escorts"  who follow you like your shadow to the cashier.

2.  When you reach that magical "use by" date set by insurance companys, and your of absolutley no value to them, and your policy is cancelled,  come and tell us about it, wont you, and join the  compulsory self insured brigade.

[Rampant Rabbit]

24 minutes ago, robblok said:

So what is your suggestion to cover health costs of older expats ? I am waiting. (pretty sure most want someone else take the hit)

as they are  not  "permanent"..... residents they should  slap  it  on  arrivals like they already plan to do with another 500  baht x  40 million visitors = 20  billion baht pretty sure that would  cover any eventuality...........but  having read that they wanted to introduce a 300  baht charge last year on arrivals and then saying only 10% would go to pay for "tourists" who didnt pay  hospital  bills makes you wonder where the other 90% ends  up.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, RichardColeman said:

I think I worked it out as something as daft as 10 baht at arrivals for all tourists would cover that loss - they need to stop making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Most hospital losses I imagine comes from dodgy motorbikes and thais hitting tourists - like themselves - on the roads. Anyone involved in an accident in thailand that was NOT their own fault should get free health care. Take those cases out and I dare say the amount needed at immigration would be about 5 baht

 

 

Didn't they already add 500bht to the airfares to take care of all this?

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post and replies has been removed

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Actually there are now insurances that cover it, even to later age. So it is possible also its better if you get into an insurance early then they cant kick you out.

To the best of my knowledge, most Thailand-based health insurers won't accept new policies from anyone older than 65. There are a couple exceptions, but not many.... [If you get insured by age 65 and keep the policy in force, some but not all will allow you to continue renewing for life and/or till age 99...though obviously the premiums at that point get to be rather extreme].

 

International insurers outside Thailand is a different issue, but those international policies generally are far more expensive than the Thai-based ones.

 

[NanaSomchai]

2 hours ago, Robin said:

Last year I had to visit UK for some personal business and was caught there waiting for Thailand to open up again.  Finally I gave up and paid for a CoE and all the insurance and quarantine.  Something like $2000 on top of the flight back.

So far, this year, there has been no relaxation of entry requirements.  Even the 'new' Thailand Pass is ridiculously restrictive, and checking the price of the insurance required, I cannot find anywhere under $2700. ( 1year for a 77yr old.)

So effectively, if you want to retire to Thailand and still travel during the time here, the cost of a Retirement visa has increased by 90,000baht, and now I see rumours that the RV is going to need 2,000,000 in the Bank.

How many ''retirees' will be able to afford this sort o cost? 

Suddenly Thailand is no longer the cheap retirement destination is was.  Is this another misguided Government ploy to get more of the mythical 'high net worth' visitors.

Will all these extra costs bring more money to Thailand, and particularly the general Thai population?

I really need to visit UK again this year, but i am holding off, in the hope that there will be a change of policy to something more sensible, but begin to wonder if the current lot in charge have the imagination to think of anything.

Bolded the problematic parts.

 

My way to solve this: Don't retire to Thailand or do it with visas on arrival and extensions back to back from a known GOOD passport:

 

- Argentina,

- Peru,

- Chile or

- Brasil.

 

It will be so cheap; it will be FREE.

 

TL;DR: You can take your British passport and throw it in a dumpster. It is now worthless.

Edited November 10, 2021 by NanaSomchai

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I could have kept my excellent Thai insurance after 65, but only if I'd kept paying it. Once I stopped I couldn't start again.

Perhaps you did not asked properly to start again. And there are companies allowing to start up to 70. 

[onthedarkside]

Several off-topic posts regarding refugees in Europe have been removed. The topic here is Thailand as a retirement destination.

 

[champers]

Do not despair, OP. This week the Governmwnt has re-booted the scheme to attract wealthy foreign investors wanting to live here. That suggests to me that take up from the initial roll-out is below predicted or hoped for numbers. Retirees already here or those intending to retire here may be looked on more favourably as a consequence.

[Salerno]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

It was the reason that was given, and there are figures on the loss.

Exactly, it's the excuse some are using and the figures given don't stack up. 

 

"... the Thai health minister in 2019 said it was annually around 450 million baht or about US$15 million. This may seem a lot, but it’s chicken-feed compared with the 2 trillion plus baht spent by international tourists prior to the current lockdown."

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/destitute-foreigners-in-thailand-and-unpaid-hospital-bills-360259

 

The figures above actually decreased from those used in 2013.

 

"Thailand is considering slapping a 500-baht ($16.60) entry fee on tourists to help cover foreigners' unpaid medical bills, officials say...The unpaid hospital bills of foreign tourists cost the state about 700 million baht a year, the ministry said...The new policy might help prevent "trash" tourists from entering the country, Mr Pradit was quoted as saying."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/thailand-considers-charging-all-tourists-to-cover-unpaid-hospital-bills-20131022-2vzl0.html

 

So, now it looks like they're getting round to adding an extra 500 Bht entry tax, they're looking at around an extra 20 billion Bht revenue when tourism gets back to pre-covid numbers, pretty sure they could easily cover, on 2019 figures, a 450 million Bht loss to the hospitals from that.

[delgarcon]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

????????????

Thailand this, Thailand that ... the sky if falling.

 

20+ yrs on, and nothing has changed.  For those that believe, the country / world is going down the toilet, and better to wait & see ... well then, tune into some Pink Floyd ????

 

"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun

And you run, and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death"

 

great idea, let's all get Comfortably Numb!

[SheikYabodyline]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

The reason we are now have to come up with proof of insurance is because people have not been able to pay bills or did runners. You see it pop up in Thaivisa a lot. 

No, that is the excuse, not the reason. The cost of foreigners unable of refusing to pay their medical bills was estimated at approximately US$150m p.a. before Covid. Compare this to the revenue derived from making medical insurance compulsory for all incoming foreigners. This amounts to billions of Baht.

Medical insurance is just one in a long list of money grabs on the part of the Thai government, shortly to be added to by the 500 Baht "Tourism Tax".

[Rampant Rabbit]

12 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Exactly, it's the excuse some are using and the figures given don't stack up. 

 

"... the Thai health minister in 2019 said it was annually around 450 million baht or about US$15 million. This may seem a lot, but it’s chicken-feed compared with the 2 trillion plus baht spent by international tourists prior to the current lockdown."

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/destitute-foreigners-in-thailand-and-unpaid-hospital-bills-360259

 

The figures above actually decreased from those used in 2013.

 

"Thailand is considering slapping a 500-baht ($16.60) entry fee on tourists to help cover foreigners' unpaid medical bills, officials say...The unpaid hospital bills of foreign tourists cost the state about 700 million baht a year, the ministry said...The new policy might help prevent "trash" tourists from entering the country, Mr Pradit was quoted as saying."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/thailand-considers-charging-all-tourists-to-cover-unpaid-hospital-bills-20131022-2vzl0.html

 

So, now it looks like they're getting round to adding an extra 500 Bht entry tax, they're looking at around an extra 20 billion Bht revenue when tourism gets back to pre-covid numbers, pretty sure they could easily cover, on 2019 figures, a 450 million Bht loss to the hospitals from that.

Theyd  save  even more introducing a  compulsoty  crash  helmet  tax

[AhFarangJa]

1 hour ago, Harveyboy said:

yep same here retired here got my family and commitments burned my bridge's when i left Europe for a better life and better climate im here for the long haul but it's not the same place i came to that's for definite..just make the best of it and look for the positive things eh..

Exactly Harvey, I wake up each morning, it is a good day, and the glass is always half full........(but not for long.....)

[Gottfrid]

The end of Thailand as a retirement destination???? Why would you think that. Almost nothing has change for people that wish to retire. It´s most bad for the ones that wish to travel for only 1 or 2 weeks.

[robblok]

10 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Exactly, it's the excuse some are using and the figures given don't stack up. 

 

"... the Thai health minister in 2019 said it was annually around 450 million baht or about US$15 million. This may seem a lot, but it’s chicken-feed compared with the 2 trillion plus baht spent by international tourists prior to the current lockdown."

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/destitute-foreigners-in-thailand-and-unpaid-hospital-bills-360259

 

The figures above actually decreased from those used in 2013.

 

"Thailand is considering slapping a 500-baht ($16.60) entry fee on tourists to help cover foreigners' unpaid medical bills, officials say...The unpaid hospital bills of foreign tourists cost the state about 700 million baht a year, the ministry said...The new policy might help prevent "trash" tourists from entering the country, Mr Pradit was quoted as saying."

https://www.smh.com.au/world/thailand-considers-charging-all-tourists-to-cover-unpaid-hospital-bills-20131022-2vzl0.html

 

So, now it looks like they're getting round to adding an extra 500 Bht entry tax, they're looking at around an extra 20 billion Bht revenue when tourism gets back to pre-covid numbers, pretty sure they could easily cover, on 2019 figures, a 450 million Bht loss to the hospitals from that.

Wow some people really compare apples with oranges.

 

So a loss of 450 million baht (pure loss)

Vs 2 trillion spend (not pure profit). Nice to make figures look better for the expats but one should look at the PROFIT made not turnover. 

 

Lets look at this a bit more realistic shall we. Its not chicken feed. Assume that 20% of the two trillion is profit 

 

That means that the costs of hospital are around 11% of the profit. Just to put it in perspective.

Sure you can say there are people working so there are more benefits but that is also not totally true.

 

So those figures are made by expats to make it look like nothing while it is a lot.

 

I am ok with slapping 100-200 baht on the ticket if they stop this rule, however people should realize they are NOT paying for insurance just paying for those who skip bills and it does not make them insured. 

[Chris.B]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Why not, I generally spent under 500bht/day, and that's because I have nothing more I want to buy.

That's double what most of the Thai population have to spend.

Even worse if they're Thai pensioners on 600bht/month.

8 large bottles of Chang = 480 Baht a day is enough for anyone. 

[jwest10]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Why not, I generally spent under 500bht/day, and that's because I have nothing more I want to buy.

That's double what most of the Thai population have to spend.

Even worse if they're Thai pensioners on 600bht/month.

You are very well versed up and living in the UK. Sure you do not come to Thailand and very impressed you know the Thai pensioners get 600 Baht a month but the very poor but not all but the pay very poor, unless you work for the Government and are well looked after.

Edited November 10, 2021 by jwest10