SURVEY: Omicron--Dangerous, Worrisome or Overblown?

[Scott]

A post with false or misleading information has been removed.  

 

[Scott]

There is no indication that the boosters would cause Antibody-dependent Enhancement (ADE).  Vaccines that do so do not make through Phase III clinical trials.  

 

As noted by another member, the booster is the same shot as the vaccine.  

 

Neither COVID-19 disease nor the new COVID-19 vaccines have shown evidence of causing ADE. People infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, have not been likely to develop ADE upon repeat exposure. This is true of other coronaviruses as well. Likewise, studies of vaccines in the laboratory with animals or in the clinical trials in people have not found evidence of ADE.

 

https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/antibody-dependent-enhancement-and-vaccines

[i84teen]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article

This study/trial assesses how well boosters may work with Astrazeneca wrt immunogencity (Immune response) and assess any immediate adverse reactions such as fever, pain, itch, fatigue, chills, muscle ache etc, see Figure 2.,

"Between June 1 and June 30, 2021, 33498 people were screened"

 

THIS IS A Clinical Trial (>43,000 participants), completion; MAY 2023

:https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/study/NCT04368728

and here (same CT #C4591001):

https://cdn.pfizer.com/pfizercom/2020-11/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020.pdf

[i84teen]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

well tested

You don't get it, it's completely unknown what happens if the boosters produce antigens that may be harmful (ADE), thus the need for clinical data. Read the Pfizer clinical trial in the link below. It covers a lot of safety parameters.

Covid is last thing on my worry list. I'll let you worry for me.

Edited December 21, 2021 by i84teen

[Danderman123]

4 minutes ago, i84teen said:

 

Covid is last thing on my worry list. I'll let you worry for me.

You worry about vaccines that are well tested and in widespread use. 

 

You don't worry about a virus that has killed 5 million people. 

 

[Credo]

2 minutes ago, i84teen said:

You don't get it, it's completely unknown what happens when the boosters produce antigens that may be harmful (ADE), thus the need for clinical data. Read the Pfizer clinical trial in the link below. It covers a lot of safety parameters.

Covid is last thing on my worry list. I'll let you worry for me.

I think the one who doesn't get it is you.  You are implying that one dose of a vaccine that doesn't cause ADE and still doesn't with two doses will suddenly do so with a 3rd booster.  That is simply not even a possibility.   

 

Your insinuation is nothing more than casting aspersions on the vaccines and boosters.  You did so on the vaccine, now you're zeroing in on the booster.   

[i84teen]

1 minute ago, Credo said:

I think the one who doesn't get it is you.  You are implying that one dose of a vaccine that doesn't cause ADE and still doesn't with two doses will suddenly do so with a 3rd booster.  That is simply not even a possibility.   

 

Your insinuation is nothing more than casting aspersions on the vaccines and boosters.  You did so on the vaccine, now you're zeroing in on the booster.   

Maybe so, let me check a few things. I think I read a while back that ADE is a significant concern.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7943455/

[i84teen]

Just now, i84teen said:

That is simply not even a possibility. 

Check it out, I think it's very possible.

[Bkk Brian]

In these uncertain times not only here in Thailand but the rest of the world, a little good news for once if it holds true for Omicron. Vaccines work!!

 

"Just published @ScienceTM This is great news on the Beta variant (with a lot of immune evasion vs our antibodies): Preservation of the T cell response. Let's hope it's the same for Omicron (likely), protecting well vs severe illness"

 

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.abj6824

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[JustAnotherHun]

1. Germany's RKI today changed the recommendation for "boosters" with mRNA vaccines from six to three months.

2. Germany counted 106.507 deads (Dec.15/2021) in connection with Covid. "In connection" means, if you are tested positive and dying within 28 days by an accident, you are one of the 106.507 victims.

3. From these 106.507 victims in connection with Covid, 90.866 were 70 or older. This is around 85 percent.

1.620, roughly ONE percent, vicitms in connection with Covidwere 49 or younger.

These are official numbers provided by RKI and Statista, so neither misleading or false, one should guess. Links could be provided, but are not allowed cause in German language.

 

These are the facts (for Germany) after nearly two years of pandemia, lockdowns, contact bans and other restrictions and at the start of the next wave of hysteria due to Omicron

 

Interesting too: The Covid19 vaccine surveillance report (week 42). See page 23.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1027511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, i84teen said:

Maybe so, let me check a few things. I think I read a while back that ADE is a significant concern.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7943455/

You are confusing a paper that describes potential outcomes with clinical trials proving that vaccines are dangerous. 

 

I recommend you get vaccinated ASAP and stop trashing the vaccines. 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, i84teen said:

Check it out, I think it's very possible.

There’s a big difference between possible and probable.

 

What you think is ‘possible’ is not the basis for any rational arguments against the approved, safe and effective vaccines.

 

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts removed.  Stay on topic.  

 

[JustAnotherHun]

Quote

The new omicron variant could increase the likelihood that people will need a fourth coronavirus vaccine dose earlier than expected, executives at pharmaceutical giant Pfizer said Wednesday. 

So, according to Pfizer, the question is not, if further "boosters" will become necessairy, but when that will be.

 

Quote

Albert Bourla, Pfizer’s chief executive, had projected that a fourth dose might be needed 12 months after a third shot. But he said on CNBC’s “Squawk Box” that the timeline might need to be moved up.

One of the company’s top scientists recently said a fourth shot — possibly one targeting omicron — is likely to be necessary.

source: The Washington Post, Dec.09/2021

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/12/09/covid-omicron-variant-live-updates/

 

According to some people here, Bourla must be a troll and the Washington Post is likely to provide fake news.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, i84teen said:

"Yes, it seems so, as is BioNTech's CEO.

"COVID-19 vaccines will not be enough to withstand the Omicron variant, warned the CEO of BioNTech, the German company behind the mRNA vaccine produced with Pfizer."

From the article you have linked:

 

“It is obvious we are far from 95 per cent effectiveness that we obtained against the initial virus," Ugur Sahin told the French daily Le Monde in an interview published on Monday.”

 

I don’t know about you but I took my Pfizer vaccination to guard against that initial virus, I suspect every expat in Thailand who had the Pfizer jab did likewise  - 95% effectiveness  CV confirms why that was a good decision.

 

From the article you have linked:

 

“The latest research from South Africa, where Omicron was first reported, suggested that two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine offered 70 per cent effectiveness in reducing the risk of hospitalisation.”

 

Well I’m happy with that as a bonus given the shots I had already did their job with the virus for which I took them.

 

From the article you have linked:
 

“The German company is already designing a coronavirus vaccine adapted to the new variant, using Omicron’s spike protein and its 32 mutations as an antigen. Sahin announced this should be ready by March.”

 

More good news. I’ll get the new vaccine when it’s made available.

 

Thanks for posting your linked article.

[rabas]

13 hours ago, i84teen said:

Maybe so, let me check a few things. I think I read a while back that ADE is a significant concern.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC7943455/

Old paper, old news, now misinformation.

 

ADE, known for decades, is associated with numerous viruses, esp. dengue. It is a problem with viruses, not specifically vaccines. The author summarizes past knowledge and does some computer studies suggesting SARS-2 (like SARS-1, MERS, etc.) should be monitored for ADE. Countless other scientists have said the same.  Nothing has been more monitored from the beginning, especially during vaccine development. It is not a problem.

 

The sole author, Darrell O. Ricke has published several papers with Robert W. Malone. I presume you know of him, he was the first to demonstrate mRNA's vaccine capabilities.

 

Robert W. Malone himself said ADE was his only personal concern about mRNA vaccines. When it was clearly shown not to be a problem, he proceeded to get vaccinated!

 

If Robert W. Malone can take the vaccine, why can't you?

 

SEE HERE   "If COVID-19 vaccines caused ADE, people who are vaccinated against COVID-19 would have more severe disease. This is not happening. On the contrary, people who are vaccinated typically have very mild disease or none at all. In fact, the majority of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. are people who aren't fully vaccinated."

Edited December 22, 2021 by rabas

[i84teen]

17 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Moderna said early lab trials show its booster can raise antibody levels 37 fold and "should provide good protection against the omicron variant," Stephen Hoge, Moderna's president,

Should? And I "should" believe Mr Moderna,,,,LoL. They have been saying that since vaccine inception but,;

hundreds of 100,000's of people vaccinated are infected with delta, omicron, alpha, etc after 1, 2 3, 4 doses of mRNA and other vaccines.

These vaccines do nothing to prevent infection from covid variants, especially omicron now. Everybody, you me, them everybody, even your pet lion (if you have one) will get this damn omicron if it's so much more contagious than previous variants. The vaccines ARE NOT STOPPING INFECTION....!

Where is your proof it does? Well, we both know there is none.

[JustAnotherHun]

17 minutes ago, i84teen said:

These vaccines do nothing to prevent infection from covid variants,

Not exactly so.

A more detailed answer does not make much sense. You're post most likely will not survive long enough ????

[Airalee]

17 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You don't worry about a virus that has killed 5 million people. 

How many times are you going to trot out this tired line?

 

To (misquote) Stalin…

 

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." – Josef Stalin

[Danderman123]

18 minutes ago, i84teen said:

How's worry gonna solve anything and quite frankly I worry more about safety now due to open borders, crime and things like the economy and if my dog craps under the pool table. The virus can and does kill, albeit less than 2% of those infected and whom are likely sick with other illness in addition. You see how many people are dying from fentanyl now! It's the leading killer of 19-44 year olds, kills more than covid. Are you crusading for that cause?  I am good to go virus wise. You on the other hand have different threat model and risk assessment and that's your business.

You clearly have some concerns, because you are posting on a Covid topic. I suspect you don't post on a Fentanyl forum.

 

Having said that, when it comes to Covid, you spend your time dreaming up issues with the vaccines, and nearly zero about how to stop the spread of the virus. That's kind of weird.

[i84teen]

8 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

dreaming up issues with the vaccines

Dreams, LOL...I am dreaming when I whisper sweet covid nothings.

Seems to aggravate you when I say something and do my level best to corroborate it, especially when you can't argue or deny the facts as truth. I have a problem with people who cannot accept my "dreams" that are backed up with the truth and show to be evidenced by various web based fact checks and documented by reputable sources.

Final comment:

13 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

nearly zero about how to stop the spread of the virus

What exactly have you done "about how to stop the spread of the virus", anything ....and compare it to what you know about me, and what I did or didn't do to "stop the spread..."  just don't make it up, just facts, what you know and can prove. If anything I have vastly exceeded your glaring shortsightedness by your constant jumping up and down screaming and bashing EVERYONE who doesn't agree with your vaccine comments. I don't have solution but I look beyond these low VE "vaccines" that don't prevent the spread, and I talk about therapeutics, alternate treatments, new 2nd GEN vaccines, all reality based, perhaps a viable and valuable addition to hopefully more effective vaccines. What have u offered?

If by NOT agreeing with you and others here on the forum is not helping to stop the virus then you need to have a serious coming to reality moment.

[metisdead]

 

 

 

 

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[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

How many times are you going to trot out this tired line?

 

To (misquote) Stalin…

 

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." – Josef Stalin

Relying on Stalin to back up your arguments is a bit if a tell.

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, i84teen said:

Dreams, LOL...I am dreaming when I whisper sweet covid nothings.

Seems to aggravate you when I say something and do my level best to corroborate it, especially when you can't argue or deny the facts as truth. I have a problem with people who cannot accept my "dreams" that are backed up with the truth and show to be evidenced by various web based fact checks and documented by reputable sources.

Final comment:

What exactly have you done "about how to stop the spread of the virus", anything ....and compare it to what you know about me, and what I did or didn't do to "stop the spread..."  just don't make it up, just facts, what you know and can prove. If anything I have vastly exceeded your glaring shortsightedness by your constant jumping up and down screaming and bashing EVERYONE who doesn't agree with your vaccine comments. I don't have solution but I look beyond these low VE "vaccines" that don't prevent the spread, and I talk about therapeutics, alternate treatments, new 2nd GEN vaccines, all reality based, perhaps a viable and valuable addition to hopefully more effective vaccines. What have u offered?

If by NOT agreeing with you and others here on the forum is not helping to stop the virus then you need to have a serious coming to reality moment.

The scientific  community has determined that vaccines are safe. You disagree. 

 

In my opinion, you are wrong to try to convince people to risk death by not vaccinating. 

 

[Scott]

17 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The scientific  community has determined that vaccines are safe. You disagree. 

 

In my opinion, you are wrong to try to convince people to risk death by not vaccinating. 

 

It is also against the forum rules.  Posts discouraging people from getting vaccinated violate the specific rules concerning Covid posting.  This rule is in accordance with the Royal Thai Government's Emergency Decree:

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[i84teen]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

try to convince people to risk death by not vaccinating. 

Whoa, those are your deluded words, NOT MINE and a serious accusation and likely against the forum rules noted above. I defy you to show proof af that false accusation or take it down.

 

6 hours ago, i84teen said:

nearly zero about how to stop the spread of the virus

As well, you attempted to challenge me with the above quote which I responded to with an explanation but you failed to follow up when I queried you, again you deflect, fail to provide facts relevant to the veracity of my claims and resort instead to this deflection and obfuscating and then outright misstating what I said here on the forum. You should stop making up false postings and claims here, what remains of any reputation you may have had is in the toilet now and about to get flushed.

You are out of line.

Edited December 22, 2021 by i84teen

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, i84teen said:

Whoa, those are your deluded words, NOT MINE and a serious accusation and likely against the forum rules noted above. I defy you to show proof af that false accusation or take it down.

 

As well, you attempted to challenge me with the above quote which I responded to with an explanation but you failed to follow up when I queried you, again you deflect, fail to provide facts relevant to the veracity of my claims and resort instead to this deflection and obfuscating and then outright misstating what I said here on the forum. You should stop making up false postings and claims here, what remains of any reputation you may have had is in the toilet now and about to get flushed.

You are out of line.

Here's what you wrote:

"Should? And I "should" believe Mr Moderna,,,,LoL. They have been saying that since vaccine inception but,;

hundreds of 100,000's of people vaccinated are infected with delta, omicron, alpha, etc after 1, 2 3, 4 doses of mRNA and other vaccines.

These vaccines do nothing to prevent infection from covid variants, especially omicron now"

It is false to claim, as you have been doing, that vaccinations did nothing to stop infections of delta, alpha, etc. That's a provable lie. That it could be the case for omicron doesn't excuse the overall falseness of your comments."

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What else would they say, when they work for the company that stands to make billions of $ from boosters?

Anyone think they'd say "no need to have boosters"?

It's a pity that there isn't strict oversight by many government agencies around the world and stringent requirements for the vaccine manufacturers to investigate their claims...oh wait a minute...

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

It's a pity that there isn't strict oversight by many government agencies around the world and stringent requirements for the vaccine manufacturers to investigate their claims...oh wait a minute...

You are quoting a deleted post

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are quoting a deleted post

I guess that's my fault for not knowing it was going to be deleted when I posted it? There's a kind of Orwellian thought process behind your comment here. i.e. it was deleted so it never happened.