NatWest blocked credit card in Thailand, yet again. What are my options?

[RickBlaine]

I'm a UK citizen, spend half the year in Thailand, but still maintain a UK address.

Natwest, yet again, blocked a valid online credit card transaction in Thailand, because it 'looked suspicious'. Apparently, everything in Thailand is suspicious to Natwest.  

I use the card rarely, and only online - not in a shop, not through a banking app, but I need it for hotels, flights home etc. It's become a stressful lottery whether the bank will let the card through, culminating this time in a shouting match with a self-important twerp in the Fraud(ulent) Team.

I think some of my options are;

Cross my fingers and continue with Natwest. Would it help to switch to my debit card?

Forget UK cards in Thailand. I already use Wise to tx funds to a Thai bank, so then use Thai Visa debit card here, and UK cards in UK. That might not help, for example, booking a flight online. A Thai or UK bank will still see an international purchase (say, Qatar Airways) made from a Thai IP address, which I assume is the problem?

What's peoples experience of using a Thai debit card online in Thailand - any problems? Would it help to download the Thai bank app?

Thanks for any advice.

Edited December 19, 2021 by RickBlaine
Change heading

[Thailand]

Had the same thing with Lloyds, blocking online transactions.

The banks are paranoid about online fraud as it is huge and they are supposedly trying to protect us by flagging purchases from new/online sources. Spoke with fraud squad at Lloyds and the block was removed only to happen again on the very next test transaction I made. More words with a senior fraud squad official and the block was lifted, no further problems-yet!

[fredscats]

Second option   ,open Bangkok bank account,use Wise to transfer,easy

   went to Indian hospital while ago,cheaper /better there,but as you UK card blocked  WU sorted it out plus call to another bank in UK to up my withdrawal limit to pay for treatment

Edited December 19, 2021 by fredscats

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, RickBlaine said:

What's peoples experience of using a Thai debit card online in Thailand - any problems? Would it help to download the Thai bank app?

TMB debit card works for everything worldwide.

BKB debit card very iffy, inside and outside Thailand as they use a Thai Payment Network (both Mastercard and Union Pay).

[Longwood50]

Call up NatWest and notify them that you are in Thailand and they will occasionally see transactions from there.  

This may help but not completely stop automated rejections of foreign transactions. 

Get a second credit card.  Preferably one here in Thailand.  You will have to open a bank account and deposit money which the bank will use as security to guarantee you will pay your bill.  I have one but only put 100,000 baht which is far more than I ever charge. 

[JustAnotherHun]

Don't you have a two factor authentification with your GB credit cards?

I never had problems with my German Master- and Visacards.

I make my purchase and confirm with an app on my mobile.

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Don't you have a two factor authentification with your GB credit cards?

I never had problems with my German Master- and Visacards.

I make my purchase and confirm with an app on my mobile.

Me Too, but Natwest still randomly refuse it, even though I've used the Natwest app to approve the purchase.

Last refusal was Skype $22 for 3 months of UK phone number ...... refused.

Last acceptance was iHerb $50 for 5 bottles of Nettle Root.

Both a month or two back.

Edited December 19, 2021 by BritManToo

[Eff1n2ret]

17 minutes ago, RickBlaine said:

What's peoples experience of using a Thai debit card online in Thailand

I have a different problem from you with my HSBC UK credit card which I have used in Thailand and UK with no problem since I moved to Thailand 12 years ago - namely, the Thai Post Office have lost/stolen a replacement. Only this last week has my son been able to retrieve a second replacement from his local HSBC branch, which he will courier to me inside a book. 

In the meantime I have bought the grandkids' Christmas presents on Amazon UK with my Kasikorn debit card. That works perfectly fine. As always, it's better to buy in the currency of the card - e.g. I bought 2 £25 vouchers, one in Baht and one in GBP. The GBP one showed up in my Kasikorn account at 15.53 Baht more than the other.

You might consider getting an American Express basic card, unless you actually need credit. Bereft of my HSBC card, I was looking around for alternatives and the Amex card (basic one is no fee) looked ok for my purposes, but they don't offer that one in Thailand  and Experian kicked me out as a non-person when I applied in UK.

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

TMB debit card works for everything worldwide.

BKB debit card very iffy, inside and outside Thailand as they use a Thai Payment Network (both Mastercard and Union Pay).

I've had no problems using BKK bank's Mastercard debit card to pay multiple monthly US subscription charges.

 

If you're a Kasikorn account holder you can ask them about the K-Web Shopping Card which sounds like a virtual credit card that can be used for online payments.

https://kasikornbank.com/en/personal/Debit-Card/Pages/web-card.aspx

Edited December 19, 2021 by gamb00ler

[RickBlaine]

2 hours ago, Thailand said:

Had the same thing with Lloyds, blocking online transactions.

The banks are paranoid about online fraud as it is huge and they are supposedly trying to protect us by flagging purchases from new/online sources. Spoke with fraud squad at Lloyds and the block was removed only to happen again on the very next test transaction I made. More words with a senior fraud squad official and the block was lifted, no further problems-yet!

Sorry to hear that. My experience has been similar - okay, then blocked, then okay for a while etc.

Even informing them, and they assuring me they've 'marked' the account doesn't help all of the time. 

[RickBlaine]

2 hours ago, fredscats said:

Second option   ,open Bangkok bank account,use Wise to transfer,easy

   went to Indian hospital while ago,cheaper /better there,but as you UK card blocked  WU sorted it out plus call to another bank in UK to up my withdrawal limit to pay for treatment

Yes, I think a Thai debit card of some sort (I've got a Kasikorn card) is the easier option, especially as rules get tighter about being 'out of country'..  

[KannikaP]

The UK Bank will usually tell you, quite rightly, that they are blocking it 'to protect your money'. Usually a phone call can sort it out.

[BritManToo]

Just now, KannikaP said:

The UK Bank will usually tell you, quite rightly, that they are blocking it 'to protect your money'. Usually a phone call can sort it out.

They'd be lying, they are blocking it to protect their money.

In the UK customers are not responsible for fraudulent transactions.

[soi3eddie]

As you've already got a Wise account why not get the Wise debit card and benefit from the best rates too? I use Wise to pay online (and in person) in Thailand and they have never blocked a single transaction. They often send a notification to the Wise app on my phone asking if I approve the transaction. Ordinary UK banks and building societies are dinosaurs in this global world. I know they need to protect from fraud but 2FA is easy and works well.

 

[RickBlaine]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

TMB debit card works for everything worldwide.

BKB debit card very iffy, inside and outside Thailand as they use a Thai Payment Network (both Mastercard and Union Pay).

Thanks, I've not used TMB, I'll see if it gives me anything over Kasikorn.

[BritManToo]

Just now, RickBlaine said:

Thanks, I've not used TMB, I'll see if it gives me anything over Kasikorn.

It gives you a debit card with no ATM charges anywhere in Thailand.

[Badger18]

3 hours ago, RickBlaine said:

Forget UK cards in Thailand

FWIW the "fee free foreign currency transactions" cards are less prone to being blocked IME. Worst I've had is an SMS asking me to verify the first transaction in a new place.

[RickBlaine]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Me Too, but Natwest still randomly refuse it, even though I've used the Natwest app to approve the purchase.

Last refusal was Skype $22 for 3 months of UK phone number ...... refused.

Last acceptance was iHerb $50 for 5 bottles of Nettle Root.

Both a month or two back.

Very occasionally, when I purchased, say an airline ticket, a second Mastercard Secure screen would pop up with extra questions, but I haven't seen it recently. This time, I was paying for a hotel thru' Agoda - hardly a dodgy company. Natwest let the transaction through, THEN blocked the card, but also online access to the card on my account, so I couldn't even pay it off! With the clock ticking I wondered if the bank would charge late-payment fees on a card which they'd stopped the customer from paying off!  

[RickBlaine]

3 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

Call up NatWest and notify them that you are in Thailand and they will occasionally see transactions from there.  

This may help but not completely stop automated rejections of foreign transactions. 

Get a second credit card.  Preferably one here in Thailand.  You will have to open a bank account and deposit money which the bank will use as security to guarantee you will pay your bill.  I have one but only put 100,000 baht which is far more than I ever charge. 

I did notify them on the phone, also used their online system to list travel plans; countries/dates. But as you say, and as staff admitted, none of it's guaranteed to stop automated rejections. 

What's the point of allowing customers to list their travel plans, if the banks are then going to ignore them? 

[RickBlaine]

30 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

As you've already got a Wise account why not get the Wise debit card and benefit from the best rates too? I use Wise to pay online (and in person) in Thailand and they have never blocked a single transaction. They often send a notification to the Wise app on my phone asking if I approve the transaction. Ordinary UK banks and building societies are dinosaurs in this global world. I know they need to protect from fraud but 2FA is easy and works well.

 

Yes, that's an option. I'm still reading up on it. Did you have to load the Wise app with your mobile in your home country? That's a restriction some of the banks are using (With Natwest it's UK or a short list of allowed countries, Thailand excluded). It's a pain if you're already in Thailand of course. 

[soi3eddie]

24 minutes ago, RickBlaine said:

Yes, that's an option. I'm still reading up on it. Did you have to load the Wise app with your mobile in your home country? That's a restriction some of the banks are using (With Natwest it's UK or a short list of allowed countries, Thailand excluded). It's a pain if you're already in Thailand of course. 

I simply load in advance. No need to be in the UK. I log in to my UK bank and transfer to Wise. The money is then ready to use on Wise. 

[Longwood50]

29 minutes ago, RickBlaine said:

What's the point of allowing customers to list their travel plans, if the banks are then going to ignore them? 

I had the same thing with a transfer directly to Transferwise.  My bank Chase rejected it and locked my account for potential fraud.  Despite calling each time I tried to do the transfer, they system automatically blocked it. 

It use to be that transactions were monitored by humans who if they got a suspicious transaction would look at the notes in the computer file and make an override after seeing the notes of foreign travel.  Not so much anymore since the computer algorithm just automatically blocks their approval.  

With credit cards I adapted by getting a Thai credit card.  I think the only way to somehow protect yourself is by having two or three different payment methods available to you at all times. 

 

[RickBlaine]

2 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

I've had no problems using BKK bank's Mastercard debit card to pay multiple monthly US subscription charges.

 

If you're a Kasikorn account holder you can ask them about the K-Web Shopping Card which sounds like a virtual credit card that can be used for online payments.

https://kasikornbank.com/en/personal/Debit-Card/Pages/web-card.aspx

Thanks. I am a Kasikorn customer, just had a look at K-Web. I thought it was going to be like a prepaid credit card, but no. Can't see the benefit over K Debit card, or K banking app, other than it requires a password for each trans', unlike a debit card used online?   

[RickBlaine]

4 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

I had the same thing with a transfer directly to Transferwise.  My bank Chase rejected it and locked my account for potential fraud.  Despite calling each time I tried to do the transfer, they system automatically blocked it. 

It use to be that transactions were monitored by humans who if they got a suspicious transaction would look at the notes in the computer file and make an override after seeing the notes of foreign travel.  Not so much anymore since the computer algorithm just automatically blocks their approval.  

With credit cards I adapted by getting a Thai credit card.  I think the only way to somehow protect yourself is by having two or three different payment methods available to you at all times. 

 

I wonder if we're victims of our own travels? As travel numbers increased dramatically this century, and therefore international transactions, humans can no longer be the first line of defence, it has to be an automatic process. Will AI and heuristic/self learning programs make it worse or better?

Yes, 'two or three payment methods' seems to be the best solution. They can't block them all - can they?

[RickBlaine]

3 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

I have a different problem from you with my HSBC UK credit card which I have used in Thailand and UK with no problem since I moved to Thailand 12 years ago - namely, the Thai Post Office have lost/stolen a replacement. Only this last week has my son been able to retrieve a second replacement from his local HSBC branch, which he will courier to me inside a book. 

In the meantime I have bought the grandkids' Christmas presents on Amazon UK with my Kasikorn debit card. That works perfectly fine. As always, it's better to buy in the currency of the card - e.g. I bought 2 £25 vouchers, one in Baht and one in GBP. The GBP one showed up in my Kasikorn account at 15.53 Baht more than the other.

You might consider getting an American Express basic card, unless you actually need credit. Bereft of my HSBC card, I was looking around for alternatives and the Amex card (basic one is no fee) looked ok for my purposes, but they don't offer that one in Thailand  and Experian kicked me out as a non-person when I applied in UK.

Thanks for that experience. I have a Kasikorn debit card, and use Amazon UK, so sounds like that part at least should work fine. As to Experian and being an expat, I suspect no (recent) credit history is as damaging as poor credit history. 

 

 

[Longwood50]

58 minutes ago, RickBlaine said:

I wonder if we're victims of our own travels?

We are victims of increasingly sophisticated scams that target credit cards.  Certain transactions have a higher risk of fraud so they are targeted.  Anything that is markedly different than your normal spending patterns gets it automatically blocked. 
 

They have mitigated the denials a bit by the One Time Codes sent to your phone to authenticate.  But not entirely. 

[RickBlaine]

13 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

We are victims of increasingly sophisticated scams that target credit cards.  Certain transactions have a higher risk of fraud so they are targeted.  Anything that is markedly different than your normal spending patterns gets it automatically blocked. 
 

They have mitigated the denials a bit by the One Time Codes sent to your phone to authenticate.  But not entirely. 

I thought the One Time Codes would be a pain, but got used to them now. At least NatWest will send to a foreign mobile number. Reading other threads on this forum, some banks won't do that, guys are having to use a roaming service, or buy a number from their home country to pretend to be sat at home. But then others are saying bank software might use geo-location/mast-id/whatever-its-called to get our true location, regardless of phone number. It's beyond me. 

[Longwood50]

6 hours ago, RickBlaine said:

I thought the One Time Codes would be a pain, but got used to them now. At least NatWest will send to a foreign mobile number. Reading other threads on this forum, some banks won't do that, guys are having to use a roaming service, or buy a number from their home country to pretend to be sat at home

That is true,  I still maintain a USA phone number on an old cell phone for $3 USD per month for that reason.  Certain USA locations such as government websites, and banks often will not send the OTC to an overseas phone number.  

Short of having several cards, and of course using a Thai Bank account and getting a card here if you are staying, it is likely that at one point or another you will get a transaction denied.  

[digbeth]

21 hours ago, RickBlaine said:

Thanks. I am a Kasikorn customer, just had a look at K-Web. I thought it was going to be like a prepaid credit card, but no. Can't see the benefit over K Debit card, or K banking app, other than it requires a password for each trans', unlike a debit card used online?   

K-Web card is just another card number linked to your regular card/account and takes cash straight out

 

K-Web card's advantage are that it appears as a credit card to merchant, in case where they don't accept debit cards, plus they have more robust chargeback procedure in place in case of fraud or overcharge/nondelivery by the merchant, for a normal debit card, you usually can't dispute or chargeback, or normally you tell the bank, and they say they'll have a look, and does nothing in 2-4 weeks. I've personally used K-Web card's dispute mechanism and they are pretty good and got results.

 

and in case of persistent subscription that can't be cancelled, you can request a new card no. 

 

It is geared towards people who can't get real credit cards yet like youths or people without credits but want to buy things online

 

5-10 years ago, most Thai debit cards can't be used online internationally without jumping through hoops or at all 

Edited December 20, 2021 by digbeth

[mrmicbkktxl]

On 12/19/2021 at 12:10 PM, Eff1n2ret said:

I have a different problem from you with my HSBC UK credit card which I have used in Thailand and UK with no problem since I moved to Thailand 12 years ago - namely, the Thai Post Office have lost/stolen a replacement. Only this last week has my son been able to retrieve a second replacement from his local HSBC branch, which he will courier to me inside a book. 

In the meantime I have bought the grandkids' Christmas presents on Amazon UK with my Kasikorn debit card. That works perfectly fine. As always, it's better to buy in the currency of the card - e.g. I bought 2 £25 vouchers, one in Baht and one in GBP. The GBP one showed up in my Kasikorn account at 15.53 Baht more than the other.

You might consider getting an American Express basic card, unless you actually need credit. Bereft of my HSBC card, I was looking around for alternatives and the Amex card (basic one is no fee) looked ok for my purposes, but they don't offer that one in Thailand  and Experian kicked me out as a non-person when I applied in UK.

Since about 4years I didn't receive any standard mail,about 10 letters with cards or documents are missing.Since 2019 I told my mother to send registered mail only or use DHL Express. Registered letters and DHL Express ni problem so far,but DHL Express is really pricey a few documents about 60Euros from Germany it needs about 2 working days from posting till delivery.