​​​​​​​Huge 65% Expats say unvaccinated passengers should sit in separate areas on planes

[Lacessit]

22 hours ago, TheScience said:

 

 

There is no evidence of airborne disease spreading thru planes (especially covid) in any amount that is concerning.

 

The full air circulation / exchange in a plane is something like 100% turn over in less than five minutes.

 

 

 

Kindly post the medical studies that support your assertion.

 

Unless the air-conditioning system of an aircraft has Stage 4 biolab filtration, it is a perfect virus distribution system. That was proved beyond doubt in Australia. All hotel quarantines there had outbreaks, the only facility that had no history of transmission was Howard Springs, where rooms had individual aircons. All the others had centralized air conditioning systems.

 

I've been vaccinated, I've had COVID. I don't care if others on an aircraft are unvaccinated. I do care if people board the aircraft COVID-positive, irrespective of whether they are vaccinated or not. I don't think that is too much to ask.

 

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Kindly post the medical studies that support your assertion.

 

Unless the air-conditioning system of an aircraft has Stage 4 biolab filtration, it is a perfect virus distribution system. That was proved beyond doubt in Australia. All hotel quarantines there had outbreaks, the only facility that had no history of transmission was Howard Springs, where rooms had individual aircons. All the others had centralized air conditioning systems.

 

I've been vaccinated, I've had COVID. I don't care if others on an aircraft are unvaccinated. I do care if people board the aircraft COVID-positive, irrespective of whether they are vaccinated or not. I don't think that is too much to ask.

 

I also don't think it is too much to ask that you live up to your nom-de-plume, and avoid posting misinformation.

Aircraft have very efficient HEPA filters. This is why airlines used to only check people sitting a row or two away from a positive case.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Aircraft have very efficient HEPA filters. This is why airlines used to only check people sitting a row or two away from a positive case.

A HEPA filter is not going to be effective against a virus that is 125 nanometers in diameter. HEPA filters are capable of filtering airborne particles down to 300 nanometers.

[bristolgeoff]

It would be a reasonable idea as before when smoking was allowed on planes.those seats on the back went quick as well.If you are unvaccinated then why should u be allowed to move freely when many have had all the jabs to be safe and  be able to travel safely

[Sparktrader]

8 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

Personally I'm not bothered whether passengers are vaccinated or not (I am triple vaxxed). However, to resume easier travel why not simply impose following rules for travel to ANY county with NO restrictions on arrival:

 

1) PCR Test within 48 hours of departure or border crossing (set-up more fast testing locations in/near airports etc.)

2) ALL passengers must have had at least 2 vaccinations

3) NO restrictions on arrival - get on with life

 

Sooner or later the world is going to have to wake up to the impending economic disaster of reduced travel. Not just tourism but business and development. Look at cities such as London, New York and Bangkok in terms of huge business distress.

 

1 forget it

2 have money

3 have passport

4 get on with life <deleted>

 

Sick of it

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

2 hours ago, onthedarkside said:

One blatant COVID misinformation post has been removed, along with several others misrepresenting information about COVID vaccines.

 

According to the latest research, people who are fully vaccinated with a recent 3rd mRNA booster dose are much less likely to contract even the Omicron variant versus the unvaccinated.

 

And, if you don't contract the virus in the first place because of effective/recent vaccination, then the people in the fully vaccinated and boosted group are less likely to spread it to others.

 

No, the current mRNA vaccines do not prevent catching the coronavirus 100%. But effective vaccinations with a booster lessen the odds greatly vs the unvaccinated. And of course, the vaccines also greatly reduce the chances of hospitalization and death.

 

 

Are you hinting that people with less than 3 jabs, and the 3rd must be recent, should be seated in a seperate area of the plane?

[LarryB]

I agree. Unjabbed people should be placed in first class to protect them from being infected by those who have been queuing for their jabs but can still spread the virus. 

[onthedarkside]

15 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Are you hinting that people with less than 3 jabs, and the 3rd must be recent, should be seated in a seperate area of the plane?

I wasn't commenting on the poll results or the airplane travel issue at all. Just explaining the facts related to the risk differences between being fully (3 dose) vaccinated vs unvaccinated...  Since some posters above seemed to be under the misimpression that there's no difference between the two.

 

[SymS]

Oh well, let's just ban people over 60 years old from flying. It's for their safety...

[John Bird]

Maybe they shouldnt even be allowed on the plane at all... 

[FarFlungFalang]

24 minutes ago, onthedarkside said:

I wasn't commenting on the poll results or the airplane travel issue at all. Just explaining the facts related to the risk differences between being fully (3 dose) vaccinated vs unvaccinated...  Since some posters above seemed to be under the misimpression that there's no difference between the two.

 

Cool I was a bit worried for a second.There's also a difference between unvaccinated with a prior infection and unvaccinated without a prior infection and I feel it would be nice if there was a better term or phrase that could be used that accommodated this difference.It will be interesting to see just how long a previous infection protects against serious illness and death when the dust finally settles.

[connda]

Personally I'd rather sit with the unvaccinated.  Like minds in one location on the plane.  One stress-free place on that flight.
So yeah.  I agree.  Segregate the unvaccinated but give the vaccinated a choice of where they can sit in case they don't care if they intermingle.  Maybe some of the vaccinated want to be in the low-stress, drama-free cabin during the flight.

[riclag]

The last thing I would be worrying about is whether someone is unvaxed or vaxed !

The first case of omi in california was from a vaxer

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/first-us-omicron-case-identified-in-california-health-agency/articleshow/88037972.cms

Edited February 16, 2022 by riclag

[rickudon]

My thinking is this:

Firstly, you get jabbed to lower the risks to yourself. Secondly, you get vaccinated to reduce the risk of passing on an infection to someone else, who might die or become seriously ill. It is unfortunate that the vaccines do not provide 100% protection from infection, or even death, but they certainly lower the risk. Someone who refuses to get vaccinated for no good medical reason is being selfish - they do not care about other people.

 

If someone doesn't want to be vaccinated, they have an incentive to get a fake vaccine certificate to allow them to travel more easily, also probably a fake Covid test. Certainly the percentage of people arriving in Phuket Covid positive from some countries is a problem. Hard to believe up to 4% of people catch Covid within 3 days of a PCR test before flying. Anything that reduces these risks should be considered.

 

Yes, Omicron is probably so infectious that nothing short of quarantine will stop it - but probably in all countries now. But this is not a catch it once and i am immune virus; I know of several people who have had it twice or 3 times. Excess death rates in many countries suggest that deaths are actually a lot higher than reported deaths; also death rates among Covid-19 survivors remain higher long after they have 'recovered', and long Covid is still a poorly understood problem. Do we have to live with it? Yes, but it is sensible to reduce chance of infection by not taking risks. Not getting vaccinated is like smoking, it not only affects your health, but other peoples.

 

 

[connda]

Then of course you'll run into case where someone has two shots, but it hasn't been 14 days <or whatever cutoff is used> since the last shot so officially they are unvaccinated, yet because they had the shot they want to be in the vaccinated section but told they aren't really "fully vaccinated" yet!  Same if someone's Covid Pass has expired.  Same if the Covid pass expired but they got boosted but haven't got that magic 14 days under they belt to make they "really fully vaccinated." 

Oh what a nightmare for the flight crew!  Egads!.

The unvaxxed go to their seats and strike up a pleasant conversation while the rest of the plane goes out of their minds.  ????

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, riclag said:

The last thing I would be worrying about is whether someone is unvaxed or vaxed !

Good for you but perhaps somebody with heart or lung disease, cancer or even a pregnant lady (under 36 weeks) who wants to fly somewhere does care.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, rickudon said:

Do we have to live with it? Yes, but it is sensible to reduce chance of infection by not taking risks. Not getting vaccinated is like smoking, it not only affects your health, but other peoples.

 

Well reasoned and well put!

[riclag]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Good for you but perhaps somebody with heart or lung disease, cancer or even a pregnant lady (under 36 weeks) who wants to fly somewhere does care.

In that case you better double mask and wear a face shield like I do

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, rickudon said:

My thinking is this:

Firstly, you get jabbed to lower the risks to yourself. Secondly, you get vaccinated to reduce the risk of passing on an infection to someone else, who might die or become seriously ill. It is unfortunate that the vaccines do not provide 100% protection from infection, or even death, but they certainly lower the risk. Someone who refuses to get vaccinated for no good medical reason is being selfish - they do not care about other people.

 

If someone doesn't want to be vaccinated, they have an incentive to get a fake vaccine certificate to allow them to travel more easily, also probably a fake Covid test. Certainly the percentage of people arriving in Phuket Covid positive from some countries is a problem. Hard to believe up to 4% of people catch Covid within 3 days of a PCR test before flying. Anything that reduces these risks should be considered.

 

Yes, Omicron is probably so infectious that nothing short of quarantine will stop it - but probably in all countries now. But this is not a catch it once and i am immune virus; I know of several people who have had it twice or 3 times. Excess death rates in many countries suggest that deaths are actually a lot higher than reported deaths; also death rates among Covid-19 survivors remain higher long after they have 'recovered', and long Covid is still a poorly understood problem. Do we have to live with it? Yes, but it is sensible to reduce chance of infection by not taking risks. Not getting vaccinated is like smoking, it not only affects your health, but other peoples.

 

Quite ironic when you see resources being used in hospitals due to the anti vaxxers ending up with severe disease because they claimed that the vaccines were untested long term and now taking the latest treatments from the same companies that made the vaccines.

 

Dr. Steven Fedder, who works in the emergency room of a hospital in Richmond, B.C., said he has run out of patience for people whose stance against vaccines has larger societal implications.

"I think it's the ultimate selfishness that individuals choose not to vaccinate themselves. And I think they don't realize they are too arrogant to understand that we live in a society where we all have to make sacrifices," he said.

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/09/03/news/doctors-frustrated-selfishness-unvaccinated-people-protesters

Edited February 16, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, riclag said:

The last thing I would be worrying about is whether someone is unvaxed or vaxed !

The first case of omi in california was from a vaxer

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/first-us-omicron-case-identified-in-california-health-agency/articleshow/88037972.cms

 

The first Omicron case in that report was someone who had received two basic vaccine doses, but had not received a booster dose.

 

And, as science and medicine has been telling the world for months now, a third booster dose is required to be effective against Omicron. Two doses alone, while effective against the prior variants, aren't very effective in preventing Omicron.

 

Takeaway - get that third mRNA booster shot.

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The first Omicron case in that report was someone who had received two basic vaccine doses, but had not received a booster dose.

 

And, as science and medicine has been telling the world for months now, a third booster dose is required to be effective against Omicron. Two doses alone, while effective against the prior variants, aren't very effective in preventing Omicron.

 

Takeaway - get that third mRNA booster shot.

Yes, apparently much of the "science" has been changing lately. 

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, SymS said:

Oh well, let's just ban people over 60 years old from flying. It's for their safety...

Ban obese for their safety.

[onthedarkside]

A misinformation post related to mRNA COVID vaccines has been removed.

 

MYTH: Researchers rushed the development of the COVID-19 vaccine, so its effectiveness and safety cannot be trusted.

...

"The COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were created with a method that has been in development for years, so the companies could start the vaccine development process early in the pandemic."

 

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines-myth-versus-fact

 

 

"Likewise, while both Pzifer-BioNTech and Moderna’s vaccines are some of the first mRNA vaccines to be authorized and approved in the United States, mRNA technology is not new.

Researchers have studied mRNA vaccines for decades, in particular, because they can be developed in a laboratory setting with readily available materials. So, according to the CDC, once the information about SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, was known, researchers were able to develop the vaccines."

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/fact-check-no-the-covid-19-vaccines-are-not-experimental/ar-AATpc0m?ocid=uxbndlbing

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, apparently much of the "science" has been changing lately. 

 

The virus has changed, several times over. So responses to it have needed to change as well. Nothing remarkable or unexpected about that.

 

[riclag]

14 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The first Omicron case in that report was someone who had received two basic vaccine doses, but had not received a booster dose.

 

And, as science and medicine has been telling the world for months now, a third booster dose is required to be effective against Omicron. Two doses alone, while effective against the prior variants, aren't very effective in preventing Omicron.

 

Takeaway - get that third mRNA booster shot.

Bottom line ! The last thing I would worry about on a plane  is where a unvax is sitting. Booster vaxers can get and give the thing too

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/illinois-first-case-of-omicron-variant-reported-in-chicago-resident-officials/2702294/

[Enoon]

2 hours ago, bristolgeoff said:

It would be a reasonable idea as before when smoking was allowed on planes.those seats on the back went quick as well.If you are unvaccinated then why should u be allowed to move freely when many have had all the jabs to be safe and  be able to travel safely

You can do everything safely if you have had all the jabs.

 

That includes being near people who have COVID.

 

Tha'ts what the jabs do.......they protect you against bad COVID effects if you get the bug.

 

Did they not explain that to you at the clinic?

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 hours ago, riclag said:

Bottom line ! The last thing I would worry about on a plane  is where a unvax is sitting. Booster vaxers can get and give the thing too

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/illinois-first-case-of-omicron-variant-reported-in-chicago-resident-officials/2702294/

 

Your article above:

 

Chicago Department of Public Health Commissioner Dr. Allison Arwady said in a statement ... “We know how to slow the spread of this virus: get vaccinated, get boosted, get tested if you have symptoms or have been in contact with someone with COVID-19, and stay away from others if you test positive. Wear a mask indoors, avoid poorly ventilated spaces, practice social distancing, and wash your hands.”

[Elkski]

I really think the air in a Plane circulates everywhere and is not filtered very well.  Remember back with smoking you could smell it throughout the planes and smoke is a big molecule.  

[riclag]

15 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Your article above:

 

Chicago Department of Public Health Commissioner Dr. Allison Arwady said in a statement ... “We know how to slow the spread of this virus: get vaccinated, get boosted, get tested if you have symptoms or have been in contact with someone with COVID-19, and stay away from others if you test positive. Wear a mask indoors, avoid poorly ventilated spaces, practice social distancing, and wash your hands.”

Also in that article

"The case was reported in a fully vaccinated city resident who had also received a booster dose" 

[Scott]

I don't care whether someone is vaxxed or not.  I'd be most comfortable if they checked to make sure that no one has an active infection. 

 

I have avoided flying not because of vaccines but because of masking.  I support masking, especially on planes, but I just don't do well wearing a mask for a long time.   I know I am safe, I've sat waiting for a doctor and had my O₂levels are fine but I still get anxious.  In a store, I can walk outside and take it off for a few minutes.  

 

I am afraid I just might end up being one of those people they end up restraining and making an emergency landing for!  

 

The issue, for me, is not vaccinated vs. unvaccinated; it's infected vs. uninfected.  Any other metric is questionable and would not address the problem of exposure to the virus.