Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Danderman123]

I expect significant lamentations from Russians today in Thailand when banks open.

[GroveHillWanderer]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

So, where's the U.S. and the U.K. on this aspect of things?

Not sure about the US, but the UK was the first European country to supply defensive weaponry to Ukraine and continues to do so according to an interview Liz Truss, the UK Foreign Secretary, gave yesterday.

 

Foreign Secretary "Absolutely" Backs Brits Who Want To Join Ukraine's Armed Resistance

 

As she says in the interview:

 

Quote

The UK led on this, we were the first European country to supply defensive weapons into Ukraine

 

[tomazbodner]

7 hours ago, NotReallyHere said:

 

Too little, too late... 

 

Where were the protesters prior to the invasion?  I guess they've heard of the coming economic hardships...

You can't blame Russian people. Their news sources were painting a very different picture where their people in these 2 regions were seen as victims of Ukrainian aggression and genocide. Even a politician who voted in favour of troups being used outside borders said he's been misled, that he voted for peace in the region, not for the war. And finally, these protesters face very stiff penalties. Having a criminal record in Russia which they would be getting would mean they lose their job, and cannot get another job in Russia for the rest of their lives. Obviously if you manage to overthrow the government, that would likely go away, but if you can't, you're toast.

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Not sure about the US, but the UK was the first European country to supply defensive weaponry to Ukraine and continues to do so according to an interview Liz Truss, the UK Foreign Secretary, gave yesterday.

 

Foreign Secretary "Absolutely" Backs Brits Who Want To Join Ukraine's Armed Resistance

 

As she says in the interview:

 

 

EU also...from AFP

 

EU countries will provide 'fighter jets' to Ukraine under Brussels funding: Borrell

 

The EU has announced swingeing new sanctions against Russia over its invasion of Ukraine, closing its airspace to Russian aircraft and banning Russian state media outlets broadcasting in the bloc

 

EU to finance weapons deliveries to Ukraine: von der Leyen

[tgw]

from the Ukrainian Army's general staff:

https://www.facebook.com/UkrainianLandForces/videos/1351511025364877/

 

according to the filmer, this is one of Putin's Chechen columns.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by tgw

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Not sure about the US, but the UK was the first European country to supply defensive weaponry to Ukraine and continues to do so according to an interview Liz Truss, the UK Foreign Secretary, gave yesterday.

 

Foreign Secretary "Absolutely" Backs Brits Who Want To Join Ukraine's Armed Resistance

 

As she says in the interview:

Could well include ex military fighter pilots.

[tgw]

in many posts, Ukrainians call the Russian soldiers "Orcs" and in others "Orc from Mordor"

 

the white markings on Russian vehicles certainly helps the association.

[nauseus]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Ukrainian soldiers who profanely told off Russian warship may be alive, officials say

A group of Ukrainian soldiers stationed on an island military outpost who were presumed dead after a terse yet profane interaction with a Russian warship last week may still be alive, Ukrainian officials announced Sunday.

 

The Ukrainian troops on Zmiiniy Island – also known as Snake Island – may instead have been captured by Russian military forces, according to a statement from the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine.

...

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov was quoted as saying the captured soldiers were signing "written vows to reject military resistance" and would soon be returned to their families.

 

(more)

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/27/1083363518/ukrainian-soldiers-who-profanely-told-off-russian-warship-may-be-alive-officials

 

 

Hope that's true.

[spidermike007]

The extent to which the average Ukrainian despises Russia and Putin cannot be overstated. They will continue resisting for years, or decades to come. This could end up as badly as Afghanistan, for Russia. It could be their Vietnam. Russia is a relatively small economy. They export nothing, that is not greasy or slimy. If it were not for the oil, gas and minerals they acquired through their expansion campaigns centuries ago, they would be as irrelevant as the Saudis without oil. 

[NotReallyHere]

6 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Could you please explain why independent Russian media has been instructed to stop referring to the invasion of the Ukraine as war, etc., and only use the term "special military operation" under threat of heavy fines and/or prison? You think that is not censorship?

Russia ( Putin ) is blocking Twitter and Facebook to stop its citizens from discussing the number of bodybags occupied by their children that will be coming back to their neighborhoods. That is censorship too.

This war is going to impact them personally, when exports are curtailed the only people with money will be the oligarchs, who are running out of places to hide their wealth, and won't be able

to transfer it safely.

Putin and his generals planned a clean, surgical military operation that would take over Ukraine in a few days. They prepared the ground with a barrage of propaganda over the last 6 months. He is now finding out, as von Moltke said, no plan survives contact with the enemy.

Go back to the original post.  Your comments aren't relevant to what was being discussed.

 

I contend that the problem is not Putin, but the Russian people, who have supported him for over 20 years.  They have NOT been cut off from Western media for that entire length of time and yet they continued to support Putin overwhelmingly for 20 years.  They favored the annexation of Crimea because it had no negative impact on them personally.  Now there are going to be economic hardships and suddenly "innocent", "uninformed", "brainwashed" Russians are protesting.  They made their bed, now they need to lie in it.

 

Russian apologists, like yourself, contribute to their lack of incentive to change.

[Berkshire]

2 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Go back to the original post.  Your comments aren't relevant to what was being discussed.

 

I contend that the problem is not Putin, but the Russian people, who have supported him for over 20 years.  They have NOT been cut off from Western media for that entire length of time and yet they continued to support Putin overwhelmingly for 20 years.  They favored the annexation of Crimea because it had no negative impact on them personally.  Now there are going to be economic hardships and suddenly "innocent", "uninformed", "brainwashed" Russians are protesting.  They made their bed, now they need to lie in it.

 

Russian apologists, like yourself, contribute to their lack of incentive to change.

My understanding is that it's extremely unhealthy to complain about the government in Russia.  Surely you're aware of Putin critics who've been murdered or otherwise end up in prison.  That's why the current day protest of the Ukraine invasion is rather courageous.  Some of these people will have their lives ruined....if they survive.  Yet they still did it. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

29 minutes ago, tgw said:

from the Ukrainian Army's general staff:

https://www.facebook.com/UkrainianLandForces/videos/1351511025364877/

 

according to the filmer, this is one of Putin's Chechen columns.

 

....this WAS one of Caputin's Chechen columns.  Not much left of them now.

 

The madman could make a crazy move, like this:

 

BBC News - Ukraine invasion: Would Putin press the nuclear button?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60551140

 

[metisdead]

A post with a graphic video has been reported and removed.

[NotReallyHere]

1 hour ago, tomazbodner said:

You can't blame Russian people. Their news sources were painting a very different picture where their people in these 2 regions were seen as victims of Ukrainian aggression and genocide. Even a politician who voted in favour of troups being used outside borders said he's been misled, that he voted for peace in the region, not for the war. And finally, these protesters face very stiff penalties. Having a criminal record in Russia which they would be getting would mean they lose their job, and cannot get another job in Russia for the rest of their lives. Obviously if you manage to overthrow the government, that would likely go away, but if you can't, you're toast.

I can't blame the Russian people?

 

Putin has been in power, as President or Prime Minister, for over 20 years.  They overwhelmingly elected him and supported him for that entire period.  They have had access to Western media for 20 years.  You are talking about the current acute situation and not taking the 20+ year history into consideration.

 

Were the Russian people not aware of the annexation of Crimea?  Were they protesting then?

[NotReallyHere]

4 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

My understanding is that it's extremely unhealthy to complain about the government in Russia.  Surely you're aware of Putin critics who've been murdered or otherwise end up in prison.  That's why the current day protest of the Ukraine invasion is rather courageous.  Some of these people will have their lives ruined....if they survive.  Yet they still did it. 

It's a matter of degree.  Can an individual or small group make changes in the Russian political landscape?  No.  If an overwhelming percent of the population wanted to make a change, they could.  They don't even have to protest or risk their jobs.  Don't join the military.  If you are forced to join, do your job poorly.  If you are in a position of power, look the other way when there are "infractions".  If your neighbor commits a crime against the State, keep your mouth shut.  There are plenty of ways to sabotage the system through passivity and noncompliance.  And yet they don't.  The government is a reflection of the people.  Russia is not Sub-saharan Africa.  The Russian public is educated, has access to independent Western media and has the resources to institute change.  And yet they have overwhelmingly supported Putin for over 20 years.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by HiSoLowSoNoSo

[Hummin]

23 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The extent to which the average Ukrainian despises Russia and Putin cannot be overstated. They will continue resisting for years, or decades to come. This could end up as badly as Afghanistan, for Russia. It could be their Vietnam. Russia is a relatively small economy. They export nothing, that is not greasy or slimy. If it were not for the oil, gas and minerals they acquired through their expansion campaigns centuries ago, they would be as irrelevant as the Saudis without oil. 

More correct, it will be Putin's "Finnish" war. It is a border war, not a war far away. Same blood and same people against each other is the difference from any other war since Yugoslavia broke up. Horrible war you just can't pack up and leave if fail, the scars will last for long long time. Time for Putin to leave. He could have been the greatest ruler of Russia in the history, but are now going down the drain.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

[Lacessit]

35 minutes ago, NotReallyHere said:

Go back to the original post.  Your comments aren't relevant to what was being discussed.

 

I contend that the problem is not Putin, but the Russian people, who have supported him for over 20 years.  They have NOT been cut off from Western media for that entire length of time and yet they continued to support Putin overwhelmingly for 20 years.  They favored the annexation of Crimea because it had no negative impact on them personally.  Now there are going to be economic hardships and suddenly "innocent", "uninformed", "brainwashed" Russians are protesting.  They made their bed, now they need to lie in it.

 

Russian apologists, like yourself, contribute to their lack of incentive to change.

I'm afraid we are discussing at cross-purposes, if you care to go back through my posts on this thread IMO you will find I am a few light years away from being an apologist for Russia.

The problem IS Putin, he is obsessed with restoring the USSR, and has said so. He also has a track record of poisoning/murdering any effective opposition over that 20 years. It's like one hand clapping, how do Russians vote for anyone else if there is no one to lead?

You're not wrong in saying the cost will be high for ordinary Russians, but lumping them in with a megalomaniac who has surrounded himself with yes-men is not being an apologist.

 

[Virt]

5 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Also Sweden said last night that they will send five thousand shoulder launch anti tank weapons to Ukraine and over one billion SEK. Russia's foreign minister had threatened Sweden and Finland just before if they join NATO that Russia will not sit still.  

Yeah i saw that Sweden announced that ????

Denmark also decided to send 2700 anti tank weapons and 300 stinger missiles.

The shoulder launch anti tank rockets are being packed and shipped, but the stingers are of older date and need to be shipped and checked in US first.

It might have been better if our politicians just decided to buy 300 new stingers and send ASAP, but at least they are sending something.

It's not common practice than Denmark ship weapons to other countries. Usually it's protective gear and such.

 

One thing the Danish prime minister also announced were quite surprising.

She said it was legal if any person in Denmark wanted to go to Ukraine and join their fight.

That's unusual and just shows this is an unusual situation.

[Danderman123]

The next day or two will be critical to the survival of the Ukrainian government. 

[Danderman123]

There are things happening in Ukraine which defy explanation. We have seen video of TB2 drones taking out vehicles in the middle of a Russian convoy, but in daylight videos, we see the remains of entire convoys that were destroyed by something more than a TB2. Those convoys are always hit off-screen so we don't know what attacked them. 

 

Obviously, the Ukrainians aren't using A-10s, which would be sitting ducks anyway, but there is something out there operating at night with the capacity to destroy an entire convoy (or a bridge). 

[tomazbodner]

Btw: just saw the news that Sberbank Europe (Russian bank operating in Europe) has just announced they would close down after run on their branches. For next 2 days only ATM withdrawals (limited to about 400 EUR/day) are possible and all other services are suspended. In a few days it would close down completely. All branches are closed and I'm told the staff are being laid off.

[ExpatOilWorker]

No fuel, no information and zero motivation. 

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

 

[Virt]

39 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The next day or two will be critical to the survival of the Ukrainian government. 

 

15 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

No fuel, no information and zero motivation. 

 

 

Motivation is a huge factor.

There Ukrainians have it, but I'm not so sure the Russians have it.

 

I think a lot of the Russian troops are sitting in their vehicles and wondering what the hell they are doing in Ukraine.

 

They can see with their own eyes it's not a peacekeeping mission as Putin try to sell it.

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Wow.

That's powerful.

Of course later they will say they were forced to say those things by mysterious Jewish Nazis.

[Chris.B]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Wow.

That's powerful.

Of course later they will say they were forced to say those things by mysterious Jewish Nazis.

Maybe or maybe not. ????

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Chris.B said:

Maybe or maybe not. ????

 

Good point.

Hopefully Putin's days are numbered.

[Chris.B]

3 hours ago, tgw said:

from the Ukrainian Army's general staff:

https://www.facebook.com/UkrainianLandForces/videos/1351511025364877/

 

according to the filmer, this is one of Putin's Chechen columns.

 

Good, the scumbags got what they deserve!

 

 

[tomazbodner]

41 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

Btw: just saw the news that Sberbank Europe (Russian bank operating in Europe) has just announced they would close down after run on their branches. For next 2 days only ATM withdrawals (limited to about 400 EUR/day) are possible and all other services are suspended. In a few days it would close down completely. All branches are closed and I'm told the staff are being laid off.

https://www.bankingsupervision.europa.eu/press/pr/date/2022/html/ssm.pr220228~3121b6aec1.en.html

 

Didn't add link before. There are more from Reuters, ECB, Bloomberg,...