Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[sammieuk1]

45 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Biden ...... doing everything he can to NOT assist Ukraine .   

Agree next suggestion will be to fly them to Belarus seems like they launch a lot of stuff from there no questions asked ???? 

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

i was not having a dig at you as you only provide the link,my apologies.

There is an article in the times uk but you need subscription to read the whole article.

 Up to $60,000/month with the right qualifications.

 

EDIT just read a similar article, apologies

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

Iconic U.S. brands Coca-Cola, Pepsi, McDonald’s and Starbucks suspend business in Russia

 

 

This will be a symbolic wake up call for most Russians who remember the “cold war”!
 

First time I came to Russia, it was the same day the very first Mc Donalds openend in Moscow, and I remember the line of the que that must been 500m or more when we passed by. I also remember how Gray, dirty and how little they had in the shops of variety of food and basic things. 
 

Actually the elderly people missed Stalin at that point, not so different most elderly Chinese in the villages in China still remembered and cultivated the memory of Mao when I visited in early 2000.
 

How the russians will react to the closure of these major western brands will be a interesting study to see how influencial they are now. American brands represented freedom back then, and even Rambo was a symbolic freedom fighter for the young russians. 

 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/08/coca-cola-follows-mcdonalds-starbucks-in-suspending-business-in-russia.html

 

 

 

 

Key Event

Senior Russian politician suggests nationalising foreign-owned factories that shut down operations

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv/100893696#live-blog-post-1209381915

 

It's getting comical now, AFAIK nationalising anything has never worked, because the people taking over are clueless on how to run a business.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

"Two weeks ago a peaceful Ukraine was harming no one, and folks were going about their quiet lives"

 

What?! Now I understand why people in this forum are siding with Ukraine. Nobody has a clue. Where do you get "peaceful Ukraine harming no one"...? Read on...

 

For nearly a decade, Ukraine has been waging a war of oppression against two Russian-majority provinces in the east. Those people, who don't want to be part of Ukraine, are being brutally quashed (look up "Azov Regiment"). Thousands have died in this conflict, which is by definition anti-democratic and therefore authoritarian, yet I don't see much reference to it in this thread. I guess it's one of those 'inconvenient truths' that everyone chooses to ignore because they've been fed the line in western media that Ukrainians = victims.

 

Information about the Donbass conflict is suppressed in the west because the west wants to keep Russia as a notional enemy according to Orwellian principles (it's necessary to have an enemy to distract from problems at home). Seems that everyone has fallen for it. The situation in Donbass needs resolving. If you don't pull a tooth that needs pulling you're in for a needless world of pain. Make no mistake, Russia has the moral high ground in trying to resolve this, but I guess you'll need to think for yourself to see it. Opinions on this thread that don't discuss the Donbass Russians are completely failing to address the issue.

 

As if the Donbass issue wasn't enough evidence of Ukrainian aggression, in November last year Ukraine signed a concord with NATO giving them the right to seek membership. A massive mistake by Ukraine and the west as it terrorizes Russia beyond acceptibility and was the last straw for them. After years of being vilified and threatened by everyone for no reason, even after the Cold War ended, they have given up on a diplomatic resolution and are dealing with the issue forcibly. If you treat someone like an enemy long enough, they'll become one. Nice going western diplomacy! They have basically caused this war with their blundering interference.

 

A humanitarian appeal: the more you support Ukraine in this, the more you are helping to drag on the agony for this region, and particularly for the Donbass Russians. The west haven't a clue as to how to deal with that - they are only making it worse, as they always do (cf Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya...). Let Russia resolve this once and for all, and only then can the region live peaceably. Yes, Ukraine will be a bit smaller on the map, but so what?

 

 

 

 

 

Russian propaganda.

 

Russia had the opportunity to present evidence to back these claims at The Hague - Russia failed to show up to do so.

 

 

[Hummin]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

I'm saying what reported thats why. Only Ukraine residents that have offered to fight are getting paid, can you link me to any report that says overseas visitors are getting paid other than basic food expenses etc? These are not all fighters either, there are medical personal and other requirement that have volunteered.

Haven't checked the source yet, but found this news web site.

 

Foreign mercenaries are being offered $2,000 (£1,512) a day to fight against Russian troops as part of the new foreign legion, according to reports

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-foreign-soldiers-russia-foreign-legion-fight-b986175.html

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Haven't checked the source yet, but found this news web site.

 

Foreign mercenaries are being offered $2,000 (£1,512) a day to fight against Russian troops as part of the new foreign legion, according to reports

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ukraine-foreign-soldiers-russia-foreign-legion-fight-b986175.html

JUst amended my post above yours, thanks.

 

Just found a volunteers page on a reddit that seems to be very active with a FAQ section etc "VolunteersForUkraine"

 

Looking for all sorts, medics being needed now along with fighters of course

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Key Event

Senior Russian politician suggests nationalising foreign-owned factories that shut down operations

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv/100893696#live-blog-post-1209381915

 

It's getting comical now, AFAIK nationalising anything has never worked, because the people taking over are clueless on how to run a business.

I think it’s an attempt at improving business investor confidence.

[Bkk Brian]

RE: Ukraine volunteers. Just found more info on this. It seems to be around  500 USD - 1500 USD per month depending what you do and which section you sign up with, plenty of direct info anyway on the reddit page with people there right now and with the direct contacts organizing the sign ups

 

I'm not permitted to share a link to another forum but easy to find in Google

[Mr Derek]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Most people in this forum are siding with Ukraine now because of what is happening today and the fact that they are not Russian. 

 

A far as the Donbass region goes, it depends what you read. It seems that some wrong-doing may have come from both sides. But as there has been fighting there, it is obvious that there is no majority desire for independence.

 

Any "Russian-majority" in these provinces is only marginal and not total because it seems there are large groups of Ukrainians and Slavs who do not want Russian control and together they are the majority. Thousands have died since 2014 but that is a result of some Ukrainian action but also direct Russian interference and assistance, which is also anti-democratic and also illegal - there has been little reference to it in this thread, either. 

 

Information about the Donbass conflict is not really suppressed in the west but it is certainly different to that available from pro Russian sources. However, at the moment, Russia has lost any moral high ground it may have had as far as the west is concerned, due to the scale and violence of this invasion. 

 

I agree that NATO and the EU should have played the Ukrainian membership possibilities down (at lest delayed them) but to say that Russia has been terrorized seems so ironic and ridiculous after these last two weeks.

 

Who has vilified and threatened Russia before this brutal invasion?? Your appeal is not appealing.

Who has vilified Russia? The west.

Who has threatened Russia? the existence of NATO which should have been disbanded decades ago.

Russian majority in Donbass marginal? If you believe in democracy, any majority is good enough.

Thousands have died in Donbass due to Russia? No. They have died because Ukraine is clinging on unreasonably to these territories. Give them up and the entire problem is solved. Why won't they give them up? I've answered before: mere pride. In the circumstances that is crass and indefensible.

Information about Donbass not being suppressed in the west? Try to find any BBC or Guardian article on the topic in recent years. It is suppressed because it doesn't fit in with their anti-Russian 'create an enemy' agenda.

How can anyone doubt that Russia has been terrorized by western passive aggression, by the expansion of NATO in recent years, by the constant vilification in the media etc for so long?  It would be no wonder if they have been driven deranged.

 

I think that adequately addresses all your points. Let me know if you have anything else.

 

Someone else said that the Russian invasion was evil because it hurts the good, peaceable Ukraininans. That's no argument. It's like saying we could not bomb Germany in WWII because it would hurt the good Germans. Besides, Ukrainians are not angels. I have not heard of any of them demonstrating on the streets against the treatment of the Donbass Russians. Most likely they universally agree with the campaign to neutralise them or rid themselves of them, which, while not actual genocide, is effectively a genocide-wish. Their Nazi Azov Regiment has been actively trying to do neutralise them, but you won't hear about that in the western media.

 

Finally, for someone who accused me of Russian propaganda, I have no connection culturally or geographically with Russia. I am Anglo-Saxon, protestant, and from Yorkshire - the latter means I don't swallow propaganda bs of any kind. Just trying to appeal to the facts here and debunk the near-insanity of the west's position.

 

 

[jollyhangmon]

 

Chodorkowski says that No Toes should be pretty much effed anyway, let's hope so ...

 

'No Doubt' Russia Will See Regime Change: Khodorkovsky

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk82b30Uyvc

 

[Chris.B]

52 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Key Event

Senior Russian politician suggests nationalising foreign-owned factories that shut down operations

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/ukraine-russia-war-live-blog-zelenskky-putin-kyiv/100893696#live-blog-post-1209381915

 

It's getting comical now, AFAIK nationalising anything has never worked, because the people taking over are clueless on how to run a business.

One Red Big Mac please and a Commie Coke, thanks.  ????????

 

 

[coolcarer]

25 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

Who has vilified Russia? The west.

Who has threatened Russia? the existence of NATO which should have been disbanded decades ago.

Russian majority in Donbass marginal? If you believe in democracy, any majority is good enough.

Thousands have died in Donbass due to Russia? No. They have died because Ukraine is clinging on unreasonably to these territories. Give them up and the entire problem is solved. Why won't they give them up? I've answered before: mere pride. In the circumstances that is crass and indefensible.

Information about Donbass not being suppressed in the west? Try to find any BBC or Guardian article on the topic in recent years. It is suppressed because it doesn't fit in with their anti-Russian 'create an enemy' agenda.

How can anyone doubt that Russia has been terrorized by western passive aggression, by the expansion of NATO in recent years, by the constant vilification in the media etc for so long?  It would be no wonder if they have been driven deranged.

 

I think that adequately addresses all your points. Let me know if you have anything else.

 

Someone else said that the Russian invasion was evil because it hurts the good, peaceable Ukraininans. That's no argument. It's like saying we could not bomb Germany in WWII because it would hurt the good Germans. Besides, Ukrainians are not angels. I have not heard of any of them demonstrating on the streets against the treatment of the Donbass Russians. Most likely they universally agree with the campaign to neutralise them or rid themselves of them, which, while not actual genocide, is effectively a genocide-wish. Their Nazi Azov Regiment has been actively trying to do neutralise them, but you won't hear about that in the western media.

 

Finally, for someone who accused me of Russian propaganda, I have no connection culturally or geographically with Russia. I am Anglo-Saxon, protestant, and from Yorkshire - the latter means I don't swallow propaganda bs of any kind. Just trying to appeal to the facts here and debunk the near-insanity of the west's position.

 

 

Proof if there ever was that you can come from Yorkshire and still spread a one sided distorted view that any Russian leader would be proud of. admirable propaganda.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

RE: Ukraine volunteers. Just found more info on this. It seems to be around  500 USD - 1500 USD per month depending what you do and which section you sign up with, plenty of direct info anyway on the reddit page with people there right now and with the direct contacts organizing the sign ups

 

I'm not permitted to share a link to another forum but easy to find in Google

I have no idea what a soldier is worth or day, but USD 2000 sounds high, even I got 90 - 120 USD  offshore for every hour after I had worked my 12 hour shift or for every extra day after I worked 168 normal hours that is two full weeks. Equalent to 1000 - 1200 USD a day.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Virt said:

Russias terms are not even close to something that Ukraine could accept.

There's no other choice other than waiting for the possibility of Putin being taken out of power.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Hummin said:

I have no idea what a soldier is worth or day, but USD 2000 sounds high, even I got 1000 - 1200 USD a day offshore for every hour after I had worked my 12 hour shift or for every extra day after I worked 168 normal hours that is two full weeks.

You can send me a pm if you like to the reddit thread that gives pay etc as I said its between 500 USD - 1500 USD per month depending what you do. 

[nauseus]

30 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

Who has vilified Russia? The west.

Who has threatened Russia? the existence of NATO which should have been disbanded decades ago.

Russian majority in Donbass marginal? If you believe in democracy, any majority is good enough.

Thousands have died in Donbass due to Russia? No. They have died because Ukraine is clinging on unreasonably to these territories. Give them up and the entire problem is solved. Why won't they give them up? I've answered before: mere pride. In the circumstances that is crass and indefensible.

Information about Donbass not being suppressed in the west? Try to find any BBC or Guardian article on the topic in recent years. It is suppressed because it doesn't fit in with their anti-Russian 'create an enemy' agenda.

How can anyone doubt that Russia has been terrorized by western passive aggression, by the expansion of NATO in recent years, by the constant vilification in the media etc for so long?  It would be no wonder if they have been driven deranged.

 

I think that adequately addresses all your points. Let me know if you have anything else.

 

Someone else said that the Russian invasion was evil because it hurts the good, peaceable Ukraininans. That's no argument. It's like saying we could not bomb Germany in WWII because it would hurt the good Germans. Besides, Ukrainians are not angels. I have not heard of any of them demonstrating on the streets against the treatment of the Donbass Russians. Most likely they universally agree with the campaign to neutralise them or rid themselves of them, which, while not actual genocide, is effectively a genocide-wish. Their Nazi Azov Regiment has been actively trying to do neutralise them, but you won't hear about that in the western media.

 

Finally, for someone who accused me of Russian propaganda, I have no connection culturally or geographically with Russia. I am Anglo-Saxon, protestant, and from Yorkshire - the latter means I don't swallow propaganda bs of any kind. Just trying to appeal to the facts here and debunk the near-insanity of the west's position.

 

 

 Hey up! Looks like adequately addressing a golf ball would be quite a challenge for you.

 

Better not mention the war, your comparison just damages your weak and lop-sided argument even more. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Putin can't afford to lose this war otherwise he's a dead man walking so obviously they won't compromise.

Yes.

That's why he's so dangerous and really might use nukes.

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

There's no other choice other than waiting for the possibility of Putin being taken out of power.

That's ridiculous.

[RJRS1301]

36 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I have no idea what a soldier is worth or day, but USD 2000 sounds high, even I got 90 - 120 USD  offshore for every hour after I had worked my 12 hour shift or for every extra day after I worked 168 normal hours that is two full weeks. Equalent to 1000 - 1200 USD a day.

How much would a trauma surgeon in the military be paid?

 

[Kwasaki]

45 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Proof if there ever was that you can come from Yorkshire and still spread a one sided distorted view that any Russian leader would be proud of. admirable propaganda.

That's the problem here it was not one sided it was stated history of event the likes of the truth.

[Kwasaki]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's ridiculous.

You hope so. 

[Hummin]

Heineken NV has stopped the production and sale of its own brand beer in Russia, joining a wave of companies to exit the country in response to the invasion of Ukraine. The move expands on previous steps by the Dutch brewer, which had already halted all new investments in Russia as well as exports of other brands.3 mins ago

 

 

Reports from Bloomberg

[RafPinto]

Go on you UK

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/17885678/zelenskyy-makes-historic-address-to-mps/

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

How much would a trauma surgeon in the military be paid?

 

In the US I think they make the same as any other officer of the same rank, so from about $3-16K depending on how their rank increases. 

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, RafPinto said:

Go on you UK

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/17885678/zelenskyy-makes-historic-address-to-mps/

Yeah people are saying Boris is so jammy the invasion came just at the right time. ????

[SunnyinBangrak]

52 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

That's why he's so dangerous and really might use nukes.

I'm wondering if those bandying around the "nukes" word would consider it fair and proportional. Maybe Orlando and Houston for St.Petersburg and Moscow? Limited tactical nuking. It might finally bring people to the table. Maybe they accept their black is not 100% black. Their white is not 100% white. Or is the position so absolutely entrenched that they should just empty out the missile silos at once?

 

Of course, it would be in the world's interest if westerners could turn off the tv and think for themselves for 5 minutes. Did Putin just wake up one morning and say "think i'll invade the Ukraine - it'll be fun" because I can assure you this is not how it happened. Complicated history, repeated provocation, incompetent and insincere negotiation, years long hate campaign blaming Putin for a certain pant-suited lady not achieving her divine rights, plus an epic demonstration of military cowardice and stupidity a few months back led by someone the word "feeble" doesn't do justice too. Lots of ingredients. Can they bake something edible?

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, steven100 said:

Biden ...... doing everything he can to NOT assist Ukraine .   

The US is not in a position to replace the MIGs to Poland with F16s because the pilots will need extensive training and the aircraft are not available anyway as the next shipments are going to Taiwan. There is also a fear that Russian aircraft will overwhelm the old MIGs due to being much superior and AA being very effective. So, long story short, this isn't a political issue even tough you'd like to make it one.

[Hummin]

11 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

I'm wondering if those bandying around the "nukes" word would consider it fair and proportional. Maybe Orlando and Houston for St.Petersburg and Moscow? Limited tactical nuking. It might finally bring people to the table. Maybe they accept their black is not 100% black. Their white is not 100% white. Or is the position so absolutely entrenched that they should just empty out the missile silos at once?

 

Of course, it would be in the world's interest if westerners could turn off the tv and think for themselves for 5 minutes. Did Putin just wake up one morning and say "think i'll invade the Ukraine - it'll be fun" because I can assure you this is not how it happened. Complicated history, repeated provocation, incompetent and insincere negotiation, years long hate campaign blaming Putin for a certain pant-suited lady not achieving her divine rights, plus an epic demonstration of military cowardice and stupidity a few months back led by someone the word "feeble" doesn't do justice too. Lots of ingredients. Can they bake something edible?

I thought it was WikiLeaks who leaked Hillary's E-mails 

 

Julian Assange? 

[Kwasaki]

26 minutes ago, RafPinto said:

Go on you UK

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/17885678/zelenskyy-makes-historic-address-to-mps/

Did he say thanks to the US for the fighter jets he wants. 

[tgw]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The US is not in a position to replace the MIGs to Poland with F16s because the pilots will need extensive training and the aircraft are not available anyway as the next shipments are going to Taiwan. There is also a fear that Russian aircraft will overwhelm the old MIGs due to being much superior and AA being very effective. So, long story short, this isn't a political issue even tough you'd like to make it one.

wrong:

1- the USA operates more than 1200 F-16 and Poland is okay with used equipment.

2- the Polish MiGs have been upgraded