No increase for Thai based UK Pensioners: vote here to get this changed

[Puccini]

On 3/24/2022 at 8:19 PM, webfact said:

...The Chancellor, Rishi Sunak unveiled a wide-ranging series of new measures in his 2021 Budget this week...

Isn't it a bit late to make the 2021 budget in March 2022?

[itsari]

Wanting a increase is the least of many UK applicants for a state pension .

I have been waiting nine months for a application to be finalized.

I leave you to decide how I think about the UK state pension system

 

[VocalNeal]

Vote here? Maybe the most stupid thing I've seen on this forum. One has to wonder if the increased traffic does actually mean increased revenue,

[bradiston]

10 hours ago, DILLIGAD said:

A fellow expat here had nearly all his State pension stopped to repay the 'excess' funds paid because he didn't tell them he lived in Thailand. He has since died, so I cannot ask him more details.

For that to have happened, were it true, the DWP would have had to have established when he left the UK. They have no access to those records, so they presumably got a full statement from him.

 

Cut to the chase, ring up the DWP and inform them you have moved to the Philippines. They'll ask for an address there and a phone number, and date you moved.

 

Some of these posters who have had their pensions frozen since heaven knows when could see a £70 odd rise in their weekly amounts. Not to be sneezed at, I'd say. Actually the Philippines is not such a bad hang out. 99% of the population speak some form of English for starters. And they are a lot more friendly and less arrogant than the you know who. I don't like to see seniors getting screwed. Seniors is what we're known as in Philippines. We get to the head of most queues, and even have our own queue in many places. Plus reserved seats. And, it's more fun here!

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, itsari said:

Wanting a increase is the least of many UK applicants for a state pension .

I have been waiting nine months for a application to be finalized.

I leave you to decide how I think about the UK state pension system

 

The problem seems to be one hears nothing in the interim..... first I knew was when money was deposited, and some days later I got some paperwork in the mail. 

[Neeranam]

Although I won't be old enough to claim my pension for 11 years, in very happy with it. I'll get the full pension despite only having worked for 4 years. 

This, as well as my Thai pension will be very welcome. 

I was surprised to hear that I had my contributions paid by the govt. when I was at school for a couple of years, at uni for 5 years and when unemployed. 

They allowed me to pay 10 years of class 2 contributions, at once for 66,000 baht, and I pay about 6,000 baht a year to them. 

I chose to move here and accept the conditions. Too many entitled people here wanting their cake and eat it too. 

 

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, itsari said:

Wanting a increase is the least of many UK applicants for a state pension .

I have been waiting nine months for a application to be finalized.

I leave you to decide how I think about the UK state pension system

 

Forgot to mention.....

Only indication I had that things might be in progress, was the rather prompt return of my birth certificate......

[itsari]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Forgot to mention.....

Only indication I had that things might be in progress, was the rather prompt return of my birth certificate......

I received my birth certificate back promptly . Only mail i have had from them in the nine month wait .

I have called them a number of times which has been helpful as there are two other countries that have or had a social agreement with the UK . Australia has no longer a social agreement with the Uk since  2013 . My argument is that I worked in Australia well before the law change . Therefore the time in Australia has to be paid . Time will tell if I am right on that one . 

 

[Neeranam]

13 hours ago, bradiston said:

And, it's more fun here!

Most Pensioners in Asia want renunciation, not fun. 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Neeranam

[DezLez]

25 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Most Pensioners in Asia want renunciation, not fun. 

 

 

Did you look up the wrong word in your thesaurus?

What has renunciation got to do with this subject?

[bradiston]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Most Pensioners in Asia want renunciation, not fun. 

 

 

Weird comment. The marketing slogan for Philippines is "it's more fun in the Philippines". Renunciation? What planet are you on? In any case, it's a Catholic country, so for sure, if that's what they want, there's plenty on offer here.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Forgot to mention.....

Only indication I had that things might be in progress, was the rather prompt return of my birth certificate......

I did the claim online, no birth certificate (or any other documentation) required.

Can't imagine why so many people choose to make stuff difficult for themselves.

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Although I won't be old enough to claim my pension for 11 years, in very happy with it. I'll get the full pension despite only having worked for 4 years. 

This, as well as my Thai pension will be very welcome. 

I was surprised to hear that I had my contributions paid by the govt. when I was at school for a couple of years, at uni for 5 years and when unemployed. 

They allowed me to pay 10 years of class 2 contributions, at once for 66,000 baht, and I pay about 6,000 baht a year to them. 

I chose to move here and accept the conditions. Too many entitled people here wanting their cake and eat it too. 

 

Incredible. This guy is obviously working his ticket. Done his homework and has worked out how to milk the UK system for every penny. I wonder how many other overseas visitors are doing the same. Work for 3 years minimum in the UK, then leave. Continue voluntarily paying class 2 at £3.05 pw, and collect your full pension when entitled. Of course, class 2 cover only a fraction of the state pension. The rest comes from income tax etc. So ultimately the UK tax payer is footing his bill. Insane. Yet those who have lived and worked in the UK all their lives can't even get the index linked pension when they move abroad, at least, not to most destinations. It's most likely a common knowledge wheeze amongst millions of UK visitors.

 

And then to add insult to injury, he says there are too many "entitled people" wanting their cake etc. They're called UK citizens, retired and living abroad for heaven's sake! The out and out chutzpah of this guy!

[Will B Good]

3 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Too many entitled people here wanting their cake and eat it too. 

...people who worked all their lives, paid full UK PAYE taxes and 40 years NI contributions......those people?

[Will B Good]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I chose to move here and accept the conditions. Too many entitled people here wanting their cake and eat it too. 

........people who worked all their lives, paid full UK PAYE taxes and 40 years NI contributions......those people?

[Will B Good]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Although I won't be old enough to claim my pension for 11 years, in very happy with it. I'll get the full pension despite only having worked for 4 years. 

This, as well as my Thai pension will be very welcome. 

I was surprised to hear that I had my contributions paid by the govt. when I was at school for a couple of years, at uni for 5 years and when unemployed. 

They allowed me to pay 10 years of class 2 contributions, at once for 66,000 baht, and I pay about 6,000 baht a year to them. 

I chose to move here and accept the conditions. Too many entitled people here wanting their cake and eat it too. 

 

You won't get the full state pension.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I did the claim online, no birth certificate (or any other documentation) required.

Can't imagine why so many people choose to make stuff difficult for themselves.

The online option is not available for claims made for non-residents. If I recall access to the online form is not possible from overseas.

Edited March 28, 2022 by jacko45k

[TorquayFan]

Webfact thanks for posting the link - I've voted and I guess many others have too . .

 

From the UK Govt website :-

 

"The policy on uprating UK state pensions for overseas residents is that the annual index-linked increases are paid outside the UK where there is a legal requirement to do so. Examples of this are where UK State Pension recipients are living within the European Economic Area or where there is a reciprocal agreement between the UK and the host country that provides for uprating of the UK State Pension.

Around 510,000 recipients of the UK State Pension living overseas do not get State Pension increases – 84% of those live in Australia, Canada and New Zealand."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries

I guess that's the answer. In the link they estimate the cost of correcting this gross injustice at GBP630 million in 2022/23.  

(I still pay tax in the UK btw). Pay up you tight sods !!

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by TorquayFan

[BritManToo]

43 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

The online option is not available for claims made for non-residents. If I recall access to the online form is not possible from overseas.

FreeVPN worked for me! 

[Tofer]

On 3/25/2022 at 5:59 AM, Gottfrid said:

Just to skip the petition. Sure, British pensioners are not a strain on health care or other services. However, they neither inject their money in the country that gives it to them. So, there we have the reason. And then, crying about a raise of 5,55 pound per week? That´s not very sophisticated. That´s not to be called a raise. Such things are know under the name of weekly disgraces.

They "injected" their money when paying NI contributions, just like anybody else.

 

It's not about a single increase of 5 pounds a week, you also need to consider the pensioners who have had no increases for decades.

[bradiston]

55 minutes ago, TorquayFan said:

Webfact thanks for posting the link - I've voted and I guess many others have too . .

 

From the UK Govt website :-

 

"The policy on uprating UK state pensions for overseas residents is that the annual index-linked increases are paid outside the UK where there is a legal requirement to do so. Examples of this are where UK State Pension recipients are living within the European Economic Area or where there is a reciprocal agreement between the UK and the host country that provides for uprating of the UK State Pension.

Around 510,000 recipients of the UK State Pension living overseas do not get State Pension increases – 84% of those live in Australia, Canada and New Zealand."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries/estimated-costs-of-uprating-state-pension-in-frozen-rate-countries

I guess that's the answer. In the link they estimate the cost of correcting this gross injustice at GBP630 million in 2022/23.  

(I still pay tax in the UK btw). Pay up you tight sods !!

 

 

Suggests to me the Kiwis, Ozzies and Canadians have some form of grassing up agreement with HM gov. How the hell would the latter know that 428,400 (510,000*84%) UK pension claimants were living in those 3 countries? And how much is HM gov saving annually via this infamous chicanery? 

 

Sure, while I'm abroad I don't contribute to the UK economy - my income is too low to pay income tax - but then neither do I take out what I would be entitled to were I to stay in the UK. Free NHS, bus pass, £200 winter fuel, TV licence, prescriptions etc etc. Probably turns out those 510,000 people are saving the government billions every year. <deleted> baffles brains I'm afraid. I think they tried to justify it once but can't recall their reasoning.

 

£630,000,000 to rectify, amongst 510,000? How do they work that out? The 2.5% annual rise, which on a full pension equals about £4.50 pw, would cost them ~100m UKP.

 

AND as a final kick in the nuts, they'll tax it if you go over your allowance on your taxable income.

[Tofer]

On 3/25/2022 at 6:42 PM, Baht Simpson said:

To my mind there is no real excuse for denying expats any increases. It's discrimination pure and simple and the only reason they've done it is because they can get away with it. 

 

It's not a gift from the government it's a contract between government and the people, who contribute via National Insurance and Income Tax for a certain specified number of years to qualify for the agreed pension plus any relevant increases. Those increases are then arbitrarily taken away based solely on residency and not contribution or need. 

 

There is no moral excuse for this.

Totally agree.

When I wrote to the DWP to ask why, they sent a link to the gov. pension rules, aka small print, that had never, prior to the internet, been made readily available to contributors, nor was it ever optional for UK employees and businessmen.

When I asked again for justification, guess what?, no reply.

[Tofer]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:08 PM, hughrection said:

Invest 60 GBP a month into what exactly to give you a livable return in say 15 years from now!

Fine, if you can live on 4 - 8 pounds a week. Do the calculations and see the futility of your suggestion, considering annuity returns.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, Will B Good said:

You won't get the full state pension.

Why not?

 

How much is the full pension per week?

 

[Will B Good]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why not?

 

How much is the full pension per week?

 

You, from your own post, have no more than 16 years of NI contributions......you need to have paid 35 years for a full pension.........you will only receive £82.10

[Tofer]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:33 PM, Will B Good said:

Anyone know?

 

I still have property back in the UK......if I 'live in it' for 30 days a year I understand I am still resident in the UK and therefore entitled to annual pension increases......correct????

To be deemed normally resident, you have to live there 6 months of the year.

 

However, before I departed, I looked into the benefits of becoming non-resident, in particular respect to CGT avoidance, from the potential sale of my properties in UK, in the days before that loophole was sidelined.

I found that if you have any item of clothing held in any UK property, be it your own or someone elses, and you visit that property and stay overnight / one night, you are automatically deemed resident for tax purposes. Maybe that's changed now, I've not bothered to check since there's no benefit whatsoever from declaring non-resident.

 

 

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

........people who worked all their lives, paid full UK PAYE taxes and 40 years NI contributions......those people?

Can live like a king here in a 2 bedroomed house for 100 quid a month, eating out every day. What can 800 quid get in the UK? Maybe a bedsit for 100 quid a week and certainly not going out too much.  Why moan about 5 quid increase? Chances are that we'll only get on average 5 years of paid pensions anyway, which is reaching 72 years old. Really, there are other better things to moan about. 

[Tofer]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:41 PM, Gottfrid said:

Just try Bitcoin when it was new.

That's not an investment, it's gambling on a pyramid scheme.

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

You, from your own post, have no more than 16 years of NI contributions......you need to have paid 35 years for a full pension.........you will only receive £82.10

Where is that 16 years figure from? 

I have more like 25 years paid already and will keep paying yearly to get the required 35. 

[Will B Good]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

To be deemed normally resident, you have to live there 6 months of the year.

I think that is you are found to have property abroad.

 

3.2 Second automatic UK test

You’ll be UK resident for the tax year if you have, or have had, a home in the UK for all or part of the year and the following all apply:

• there is or was at least one period of 91 consecutive days when you had a home in the UK
• at least 30 of these 91 days fall in the tax year when you have a home in the UK and you’ve been present in that home for at least 30 days at any time during the year
• at that time you had no overseas home, or if you had an overseas home, you were present in it for fewer than 30 days in the tax year