Shakedown at CW

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Rich, IMHO, is being able to live without having to work.

I agree to a point, I think if you can't afford to live in a developed country without working, you are not rich. 

[Nickelbeer]

17 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Illegal immigrants that can't show an income of $2000 a month are not rich in any terms.  Most my local friends and family earn much more than that.

You have a Colonial attitude and are living in the past. 

The "colonial attitude" is all YOURS. If your friends and family make more than 2000 USD a month, they are well above average. One of my Thai girlfriends had a college education and worked for about 500 USD a month as a buyer for a large department store. Same situation for many college graduates. I fail to see how I am "living in the past" when my experience is current. Also, my initial visa was a NON-IMMIGRANT "O" visa. I am not an "immigrant" illegal or otherwise. All my extensions are granted with the stipulation that I cannot work. I have no problem with that because I do not WANT to work. I came here to retire. It is patently obvious that you merely want to argue and have no interest in backing up what you post with FACTS. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Nickelbeer

[Robbie63]

14 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

Years of faking income to get a letter from the Embassy it seems, then using a an agent that circumvents the rules to get an extension. If the OP, after 16 years in Kingdom does not understand Thai Immigration policy shame on him and  he got off cheap. I have dealt with CW on my own for many years for both Thai Wife and Retirement extensions and never had an issue. Never even a hint of Tea money. 

Were do you get years of faking income from?? I never lied to the US Embassy about how much money I earn. My problem was when I set up the bank account for transfers I stupidly also added my wife's name. So when I went to the IO they denied my application. I did a border run and eventually settled on using an agent. I have also dealt with CW for many years also before they moved from the Silom area including the same IO officer who recognized me from before. So <deleted> Off

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, Nickelbeer said:

Also, my initial visa was a NON-IMMIGRANT "O" visa. I am not an "immigrant" illegal or otherwise. All my extensions are granted with the stipulation that I cannot work. I have no problem with that because I do not WANT to work. I came here to retire. It is patently obvious that you merely want to argue and have no interest in backing up what you post with FACTS. 

You are an immigrant, look it up in the dictionary. 

You are illegal, you've already admitted it in this thread. You said you only have 1000 baht in your bank account and you paid $500 for someone to falsify the records. 

[Aussieroaming]

19 hours ago, KannikaP said:

After 16 years here, I would have thought you knew that a joint account is un-acceptable.

A joint account is acceptible, but the total amount that you are required to hold doubles though. I have been using a joint account for my visa extentions for 8 years now. 

[Guest truthman]

2 hours ago, easydoor said:

Immigration was compleet correct by refusing your extension. You, after 16 years in Thailand, doesn't know you must have a personal account. In case everything is correct you don't need an agent at all. People, knowing they are not correct  are using an agent and become dependent on them. It is well known, but, this you also seems to not known, you have to make your extension at the immigration office were you live and what is on your TM30.  As soon you show up with an extension, made somewhere else, the immigration officer knows already there is something wrong, they are not idiots as you think. Don't complain now, the only one to blame is YOU yourself.

They didn't refuse his extension. Instead, they used the threat to extort 12,000 baht from him. Big difference.

[alanrchase]

Mistaken post

Edited May 12, 2022 by alanrchase
Incorrect post

[KannikaP]

20 hours ago, KannikaP said:

After 16 years here, I would have thought you knew that a joint account is un-acceptable.

But @aussieroaming just said that it is, if you have Bht 1600 in it.

Why not take the wife's name off that account?

Edited May 12, 2022 by KannikaP

[The Hammer2021]

20 hours ago, Ohyesuare said:

No, as in he paid to bypass the requirements.

Where does he  state that? Agency  arranged extension are not usually illegal

[phetphet]

Might be time to get a new clean passport and start all over again. Otherwise you might be getting charged every year.

[Thingamabob]

19 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

laws here are only for poor people to follow. 

The laws anywhere are intended to control the poor, not only in Thailand. Just look at the profile of any prison population in any country. Anyway, you got your  extension sorted in the end, while skating on thin ice, and well done for that. 

[pmarlin]

I hope everyone reads the OP and learns from it.  A lot of lessons of what not to do . Retirement extensions are easy and fast if you just follow the rules and stay away from agents.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, pmarlin said:

I hope everyone reads the OP and learns from it.  A lot of lessons of what not to do . Retirement extensions are easy and fast if you just follow the rules and stay away from agents.

Yes, but there are some people who are unable to follow the rules and thus they use an agent 

[AwwYesNice1]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, but there are some people who are unable to follow the rules and thus they use an agent 

 

And there are others who just pay an agent to make life comfortable for themselves and wet the beaks of the needy.

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

4 minutes ago, AwwYesNice1 said:

 

And there are others who just pay an agent to make life comfortable for themselves and wet the beaks of the needy.

 

Or should that be “ greedy “ ?

[rott]

20 hours ago, Mavideol said:

and you have been here for 16 years  555 .... you should known how Thailand IMO works

16 years and still talking about "retirement visa" and "visa on arrival". 

[rott]

29 minutes ago, pmarlin said:

I hope everyone reads the OP and learns from it.  A lot of lessons of what not to do . Retirement extensions are easy and fast if you just follow the rules and stay away from agents.

Even easier if you stay away from immigration and use an agent.

So a fella in the bar says. 

[MadMuhammad]

Wouldn’t have been issued in Khon Kaen by any chance? 

[The Hammer2021]

21 hours ago, warrima said:

Summed up perfectly. Once your on the agent bandwagon you cant get off again. Immigration see it as a pay cut.

What you assert is based in hearsay. - This thread  issue is about inter-province matters not the  use if agents in general.

Edited May 12, 2022 by The Hammer2021

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Wouldn’t have been issued in Khon Kaen by any chance? 

100%

[Ohyesuare]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Where does he  state that? Agency  arranged extension are not usually illegal

They are if you're using them to bypass the financial requirements which are there for a reason. He clearly says he started the financial deposits after paying the agent for the visa. Also why they needed to be done in some IO in Issan and why the IO called them "dirty".

[NanLaew]

Did the OP get a receipt for the 12,000 + 500 baht extension 'laundering' job at CW?

 

Not sure but if the OP had filed a TM30 way back when instead of when the new extension was needed, there's a chance that the IO may have been less of a c*nt about it all? I mean that would have legitimized an apparent relocation from Bahn Nawk to Bangkok, no?

 

However, if the OP's immigration history (on their database) shows a consistent Bangkok residential address, then the 'up-country' extension would have stuck out like the proverbial.

Edited May 12, 2022 by NanLaew

[The Hammer2021]

21 hours ago, proton said:

Most going to agents are poor!

Many are not poor. My monthly income far  exceeds that which is required but does  not arrive as an orderly  monthly  pension thus I use  an agent to help me get my extension due to my extenuating  circumstances- all legit

[The Hammer2021]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Did the OP get a receipt for the 12,000 + 500 baht extension 'laundering' job at CW?

I get one for mine off my agent. Plus a photograph of the agent and the IO

[The Hammer2021]

21 minutes ago, Ohyesuare said:

They are if you're using them to bypass the financial requirements which are there for a reason. He clearly says he started the financial deposits after paying the agent for the visa. Also why they needed to be done in some IO in Issan and why the IO called them "dirty".

The story confused me as it did you apparently but I know it.

What are the reasons  for the financial requirements?

Please explain.

Regarding the Issan I O - its very unclear why any admin  was done there. But I doubt of necessity.

[NanLaew]

18 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

The story confused me as it did you apparently but I know it.

What are the reasons  for the financial requirements?

Please explain.

Regarding the Issan I O - its very unclear why any admin  was done there. But I doubt of necessity.

The way I read it, the OP while still living in Bangkok, opted to use an agent. These may be scarce in Bangkok or the agent he used could only facilitate it via an Isaan IO.

 

I recall years ago when agents were increasingly in demand, the Jomtien agents used Saraburi and the Udon agents used Korat. It looks like the 'industry' has maybe stabilized as Udon is an in-town job now when using an agent. Not sure where Jontien stamps are being issued these days but I would be surprised if it's all being farmed out like before.

 

Of course CW is the Immigration epicenter and the idea of an agent openly working those hallowed halls maybe a bit of a no-no?

Edited May 12, 2022 by NanLaew

[The Hammer2021]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The way I read it, the OP while still living in Bangkok, opted to use an agent. These may be scarce in Bangkok or the agent he used could only facilitate it via an Isaan IO.

 

I recall years ago when agents were increasingly in demand, the Jomtien agents used Saraburi and the Udon agents used Korat. It looks like the 'industry' has maybe stabilized as Udon is an in-town job now when using an agent. Not sure where Jontien stamps are being issued these days but I would be surprised if it's all being farmed out like before.

 

Of course CW is the Immigration epicenter and the idea of an agent openly working those hallowed halls maybe a bit of a no-no?

Thanks for  the clarification.  But how would an I O know an agent had been used?

[NanLaew]

17 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

21 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The way I read it, the OP while still living in Bangkok, opted to use an agent. These may be scarce in Bangkok or the agent he used could only facilitate it via an Isaan IO.

 

I recall years ago when agents were increasingly in demand, the Jomtien agents used Saraburi and the Udon agents used Korat. It looks like the 'industry' has maybe stabilized as Udon is an in-town job now when using an agent. Not sure where Jontien stamps are being issued these days but I would be surprised if it's all being farmed out like before.

 

Of course CW is the Immigration epicenter and the idea of an agent openly working those hallowed halls maybe a bit of a no-no?

Expand  

Thanks for  the clarification.  But how would an I O know an agent had been used?

Good question. The stamps are legit and the entry in the immigration database supports their legitimacy. If I am reading the OP correctly, this IO never looked at the computer, just the stamps in the passport and threw it back?

 

Has the OP been doing 90-day reports in person at CW or online and showing a Bangkok residential address? Is there an "inexplicable" two year gap in renewing an extension at CW?

 

The OP's right. It was simply a shakedown. The up-country IO's are filling their boots and the CW ones, or at least this one the OP dealt with, can't hide their avarice.

Edited May 12, 2022 by NanLaew

[skatewash]

I would use an agent if it were my only alternative.  So I don't fault anyone else for doing so in those circumstances.

What seems strange to me are those who advocate using an agent to make their lives easier and less stressful. 

I do my own retirement extension every year.  I take my passport and documents to immigration where I hand over my passport and an Immigration Officer makes a decision while I wait (about 10 minutes or maybe 15) about whether to accept my application, accept with additional paperwork, or not accept it.  In the case he accepts the application, I know (in Phuket) that I have to leave my passport there overnight and come back the next day and pick up my passport with the stamped retirement extension (and they always do a new 90-Day Report for me and staple that into the back pages of my passport). If my application is rejected or I need to provide something else I don't have with me (this doesn't actually happen anymore because I've been through this process about 8 times) I get my passport handed back to me.  I go home with my passport and make plans for how I can satisfy the request.  Since I always start this process 45 days in advance (some immigration offices only allow 30) I know I have plenty of time to fix the deficiency in my application. 

To me this is not an especially stressful process.  My passport is only out of my sight when the application has been approved and is kept overnight so that the big boss can sign them all at once the next morning and have them handed them out to everyone at 13:00.  For this service I pay a grand total of 1,900 baht.

Compare this with using an agent.  I would be giving my passport to an agent (someone I don't know, definitely not a government employee), perhaps along with some documentation (I don't know as I don't use an agent).  The agent sends my passport to some province far away from Phuket where they know people in that province's immigration office.  So at a minimum my passport will be out of my possession for a least a few days.  I would already be getting stressed about that.  So for these few days I would not know that I would be getting my extension approved or not.  Again, not helping with my stress level. 

A week goes by and my agent tells me that it's taking a little longer than usual, but to be patient and she will let me know next week what the status is.  Next week comes and my agent tells me that it's taking an unusually long time, but should be good news next week for sure.  Next week comes and my agent tells me it's still not done that there have been people reassigned to different offices (apparently this happens occasionally in immigration offices) and the person who normally helps them isn't going to be at this particular office anymore.  But I should be patient and eventually they will approve my extension and I just need to be patient. 

Next week comes and my agent tells me that they aren't signing agent-assisted extensions at that immigration office.  That temporarily all such extensions are on hold.  In the meantime, my permission to stay is running out.  I raise this concern with my agent and she says it's not problem, don't worry, they will process my extension in time.  Next week comes and they haven't processed my extension in time.  In fact, I am technically on overstay and, of course, still don't have my passport which has been out of my possession for over a month presumably somewhere in Thailand being kept safe by someone who doesn't mind cutting corners for money.  I find this thought a bit stressful. 

"Good news" my agent tells me the next week.  You have been granted a covid extension of stay and she shows me a picture of the stamp which is supposed to be in my passport.  So now it seems I'm legally permitted to stay here in Thailand, but still don't have my passport and really no closer to getting my retirement extension.

I'll cut this story short by noting that this went on for a period of over 100 days, during which I didn't have my passport (and therefore couldn't do things that need a passport like banking, traveling, staying in a new hotel, etc.) and I still didn't have a retirement extension.  Finally, after thinking seriously about just asking for my passport back and getting the retirement extension from my own local immigration office the old fashioned way, my agent calls and tells me my retirement extension has been granted.  Of course, I won't actually have it for a few days as it needs to be sent from the other province to my agent.  Then I finally get back my passport and it has everything it should have in terms of stamps from this other province.  And I won't even be charged the extra 1,900 baht it cost to do my covid extension.

OK, as said earlier I don't use an agent so this wasn't actually my case, but it was a friend of mine I saw nearly every week for lunch and every single time his seemingly never-ending saga of getting his easy retirement extension was discussed.

The ease and stress level associated with each of these possible methods of obtaining a retirement extension is not difficult for me to comprehend.  Obviously this isn't everybody's experience using an agent or no one would be using agents.  However, how in the world are you supposed to know it won't happen to you?  My friend used an agent that came highly recommended and has been doing this for a long time. 

Using an agent seems to me like buying a condo off-plan (which unfortunately I do have experience with ???? ).  You are hitching yourself to someone else (in this case the developer) and your fortunes rise and fall based on his fortunes.  After that experience buying a condo off-plan I'm not anxious to hitch my fortunes to anyone else who isn't me.  I may make mistakes, but I can live with my mistakes.  I don't want to have to live with someone else's mistakes (or problems).  Why would someone do that?  Why would someone risk doing something that could turn out to be extremely stressful, and why would anyone want to be separated from their passport for such a period of time?

There is risk associated with using an agent.  If you have to assume that risk because you have no other alternative, I understand that, but why would you willing do this when you could accomplish the same thing yourself?  I don't remember exactly what it cost my friend for his rollercoaster ride, but I think it was something like 45,000 baht (for 15 months permission to stay: Non-O visa and 12-month retirement extension).  He could have done it himself for 2,000 + 1,900.  He could have satisfied the financial requirements.  He thought this was the way smart people, people "in-the-know," went about dealing with immigration.  The easy way.  The stress-free way. 

Getting a retirement extension yourself is neither simple nor easy the first time.  It can be relatively simple and easy the second and subsequent times.  Follow the rules, which yes sometimes do change.  But if you can understand and follow the rules it's not rocket surgery.  It takes two short visits to immigration.  I think I'm lucky to be in Phuket where the immigration office seems to function well and I understand this is not the case everywhere in Thailand, unfortunately.  But it does astound me that for some using an agent is a first resort rather than a last resort.

[NanLaew]

2 minutes ago, skatewash said:

What seems strange to me are those who advocate using an agent to make their lives easier and less stressful. 

Not having to chase any paperwork or having to front up at immigration for anything more than getting one's picture taken is stress free.

 

That's 24 words versus your stress-free 1,311 words.