Pelosi’s disastrous legacy

[Wrwest]

3 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

All good points.

 

Also, just as an aside, has Speaker P ever had a job outside of politics? I was reading her bio, she has been in Congress for 34 years, hasn't participated in a candidates' debate in nearly all that time, runs unopposed... the classic politician's politician.  But no experience outside of politics that I can see. 

I am playing Devil’s Advocate … so we should restrict, void the will of the citizens who chose to elect her?

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Sometimes you have to look for subtle shifts in things. Other times, statements about racial solidarity (such as a certain government minister saying Asians are cleaner and Westerners are infection sources) make things more explicit. And the willingness and eagerness to jump on that bandwagon by certain segments, such as Thai conservatives siding with Russia and blaming the US for Ukraine, is something that would not have happened here 15 years ago--although it would have happened right after Vietnam 47 years ago.

 

More fundamentally, look at what is going on in education. "International schools" in Thailand used to mean instruction in English. Increasingly, it's Chinese now (or at least it was in 2020 when I last taught and gave talks at Thai universities, before the Chinese exodus). Entire departments of Chinese have been imported in the space of a few years. Funding and exchange programs had altered their targets to China as well. I could go on about this for pages. But unless you've been a teacher as well as an administrator in a Thai university, you would not be aware of the drastic changes that have occurred. 

And this means I'm in more danger why?

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

And this means I'm in more danger why?

Because eventually, if you live here, they may just kick your sweet ass out of the country.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

Because eventually, if you live here, they may just kick your sweet ass out of the country.

Even if that were the case, this is what you call "dangerous"?

[John Drake]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Even if that were the case, this is what you call "dangerous"?

I should think so, if you've made an investment in family life here and there is a risk of that being destroyed and split up. OTOH, you might be someone who just pitched a tent here in a condo to live cheap and it doesn't matter.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, swm59nj said:

I’m not going to play politics. But since there are tensions with China.  There was no reason to personally go there at this time. She knew it would escalate things. Taiwan already knows the USA supports them. It might have been a gesture or spotlight move. 
But now she is gone.  And Taiwan is holding the bag. .  I don’t think what she did was fair to Taiwan.  

Let's hear from Taiwan. President Tsai thanked visiting House speaker Nancy Pelosi for her concrete actions to support Taiwan at this critical moment and said the island will not back down in the face of heightened military threats. Taiwanese were delighted and said that 'the more unhappy the CCP is the happier they are", Your concern rather unnecessary.  

[Bangkok Barry]

[Anant72]

3 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I am 50 50. Stand up to China but the position is well known and no need to rattle the cage just for the sake of it. 

I agree with that. The world does not need another conflict now, one that would engulf the whole world. Pelosi made the wrong move and I am no friend of totalitarian China. This was the height of arrogance and recklessness.

[Purdey]

Quite surprised that some are against the US showing China that Taiwan is a friend and that the US supports it. I suppose she could have kowtowed to Xi, gushed about Putin or saluted Kim Jong-un. But that would have been cowardly.

[Lemsta69]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Not to mention the already negative impact the Taiwanese now have to endure:  

 

"On Monday, prior to Pelosi's visit, a ban was placed on more than 100 Taiwanese food brands, including tea, honey and seafood producers. According to Beijing, all of them had failed to renew their export registrations and would be allowed to sell their products only until the end of July."

 

My source is not allowed to be linked, but simple G search will bring up plenty of news-blips with same info.

 

China being Taiwan's main trading partner, for export & import, so the Taiwanese are getting screwed royally. 

 

THANK YOU USA ... making a world a better place.

They'll even make it safer for you if you buy their war toys ...

... on sale now while supplies last

 

Hold on ... another sale coming in ... cha - ching

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/02/politics/us-saudi-uae-proposed-arms-deal/index.html

 

 

 

they do have some pretty slick war toys but ????

[Colabamumbai]

So good to be a Canadian, bring your skates. 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

I should think so, if you've made an investment in family life here and there is a risk of that being destroyed and split up. OTOH, you might be someone who just pitched a tent here in a condo to live cheap and it doesn't matter.

Seriously disruptive to one's life sure. But "more dangerous for Americans and Europeans". More than a bit melodramatic.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

I would say because of the power of incumbency- it you look at the last several election cycles, the vast majority of incumbents who run for re-election actually get re-elected. Incumbents took 97% of the congressional seats they contested in 2016. Plus as they calcify in Washington they start to look for even more ways to stay in power rather than serve their constituents- fundraising, gerrymandering, etc. 

 

Here is an interesting article on the subject from a few years back by John Stossel over at Reason...

 

https://reason.com/2014/10/29/no-matter-how-angry-the-voters-incumbent/

First off, the extreme gerrymandering is the result of the right wingers on the Supreme Court deciding that while voting may be a right, having one's vote count not so much.

 

These same right wingers also voted  to overturn election laws limiting how much money can be spent on political campaigns. So corporations and the superwealthy can spend unlimited sums of money to influence elections.

[Thingamabob]

A disgraceful article. Anyone backing China's entirely false claim on Taiwan should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Taiwan deserves our respect, not drivel from a grovelling, ill-informed so-called journalist.

[Hanaguma]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

First off, the extreme gerrymandering is the result of the right wingers on the Supreme Court deciding that while voting may be a right, having one's vote count not so much.

 

These same right wingers also voted  to overturn election laws limiting how much money can be spent on political campaigns. So corporations and the superwealthy can spend unlimited sums of money to influence elections.

I think you may find that gerrymandering and money games are one of the rare things that BOTH parties agree on. It has been happening for decades, if not longer. 

 

Might want to see this article from VOX, hardly a right wing site'

 

https://www.vox.com/22961590/redistricting-gerrymandering-house-2022-midterms

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I think you may find that gerrymandering and money games are one of the rare things that BOTH parties agree on. It has been happening for decades, if not longer. 

 

Might want to see this article from VOX, hardly a right wing site'

 

https://www.vox.com/22961590/redistricting-gerrymandering-house-2022-midterms

Did you read the titles of that article?

How Democrats learned to stop worrying and love the gerrymander

Republicans tilted the House map. Democrats are clawing their way back

 

Supreme Court Rules Partisan Gerrymandering Is Beyond The Reach Of Federal Courts

 

In a 5-4 decision along traditional conservative-liberal ideological lines, the Supreme Court ruled that partisan redistricting is a political question — not reviewable by federal courts — and that those courts can't judge if extreme gerrymandering violates the Constitution.

The ruling puts the onus on the legislative branch, and on individual states, to police redistricting efforts.

"We conclude that partisan gerrymandering claims present political questions beyond the reach of the federal courts," Chief Justice Roberts wrote for the conservative majority. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/731847977/supreme-court-rules-partisan-gerrymandering-is-beyond-the-reach-of-federal-court

 

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Did you read the titles of that article?

How Democrats learned to stop worrying and love the gerrymander

Republicans tilted the House map. Democrats are clawing their way back

 

Supreme Court Rules Partisan Gerrymandering Is Beyond The Reach Of Federal Courts

 

In a 5-4 decision along traditional conservative-liberal ideological lines, the Supreme Court ruled that partisan redistricting is a political question — not reviewable by federal courts — and that those courts can't judge if extreme gerrymandering violates the Constitution.

The ruling puts the onus on the legislative branch, and on individual states, to police redistricting efforts.

"We conclude that partisan gerrymandering claims present political questions beyond the reach of the federal courts," Chief Justice Roberts wrote for the conservative majority. 

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/731847977/supreme-court-rules-partisan-gerrymandering-is-beyond-the-reach-of-federal-court

 

Yes, I did. Both sides do it, and have done so for decades.  The article simply shows the latest round.  It is all part of the big game of "Stay In Washington At All Costs".

[placeholder]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Yes, I did. Both sides do it, and have done so for decades.  The article simply shows the latest round.  It is all part of the big game of "Stay In Washington At All Costs".

Really? Is that what the article says? The article clearly says that the Democrats have responded to Republican gerrymandering, not that both parties are equally responsible. And given that Desantis extreme gerrymandering plan is now in effect in Florida ( not a sure thing at the time the article was written), and that the NY State Courts ruled the NY plan favoring Democrats to be unconstitutional (another factor the article couldn't predict), Republicans go into the 2022 midterms with a big fat thumb on the scales.

[Hanaguma]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? Is that what the article says? The article clearly says that the Democrats have responded to Republican gerrymandering, not that both parties are equally responsible. And given that Desantis extreme gerrymandering plan is now in effect in Florida ( not a sure thing at the time the article was written), and that the NY State Courts ruled the NY plan favoring Democrats to be unconstitutional (another factor the article couldn't predict), Republicans go into the 2022 midterms with a big fat thumb on the scales.

Yes, the Democrats are responding IN THIS election cycle. To whit (from the article):

 

This cycle’s Republican gerrymanders pulled the median district (which already leaned 2 percentage points to the right) another point further right. But state court rulings striking down North Carolina and Ohio maps effectively wiped out most of that net gain.

Meanwhile, Democratic gerrymanders in states like New York and Illinois pulled the median district nearly 3 points leftward, so it was actually close to neutral.

 

But the practice itself dates back farther than 2020.  I think your anti-Trump and anti-conservative bias is blinding you to the bigger picture and preventing you from seeing things in a more historical context.

[Tug]

Oh no I disagree Nancy has had a long and storied career she is an absolute expert in working within our system (I don’t always agree or support her views) btw as far as thumbing our collective noses at the Chinese government I’m all for it personally I’d be delighted to see a strong show of force by the free worlds navy’s and a succession of visits by the free worlds leaders let that dictator know we are watching and won’t tolerate him trying to snuff out another democracy .naaa Nancy you go girl!

[placeholder]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

Yes, the Democrats are responding IN THIS election cycle. To whit (from the article):

 

This cycle’s Republican gerrymanders pulled the median district (which already leaned 2 percentage points to the right) another point further right. But state court rulings striking down North Carolina and Ohio maps effectively wiped out most of that net gain.

Meanwhile, Democratic gerrymanders in states like New York and Illinois pulled the median district nearly 3 points leftward, so it was actually close to neutral.

 

But the practice itself dates back farther than 2020.  I think your anti-Trump and anti-conservative bias is blinding you to the bigger picture and preventing you from seeing things in a more historical context.

What you failed to note is that it's only thanks to the filibuster that Democrats failed to pass a national law outlawing gerrymandering. Do you think that would be a bad thing?

As the article says, Republicans started out with a 2 point advantage due to gerrymandering. In addition, as the article points, out, if the Democrats had had not engaged in counter gerrymandering that would mean surrendering the House.

Also, it's not insignificant that the states where independent electoral commissions have been created by legislative fiat, are all Democratic. 2 states, Arizona and Ohio had independent electoral commissions created by referenda. The Republicans in Arizona sued to invalidate the vote. They failed. In Ohio, a referendum clearly stipulated that the representation in voting districts should reflect the average performance of the political parties. The Republicans running the electoral commission utterly ignored that. The Ohio Supreme Court overruled them because of one of the 4 Republican judges sided with the 3 Democrats.

In contrast, in strongly Democratic New Jersey, there was a move by Democratic political leaders to gerrymander districts to reduce Republican representation. Progressive Democrats put a stop to that. 

California, the state with the most Congressional members has  an independent commission for redistricting.

 

 

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Yes, the Democrats are responding IN THIS election cycle. To whit (from the article):

 

This cycle’s Republican gerrymanders pulled the median district (which already leaned 2 percentage points to the right) another point further right. But state court rulings striking down North Carolina and Ohio maps effectively wiped out most of that net gain.

Meanwhile, Democratic gerrymanders in states like New York and Illinois pulled the median district nearly 3 points leftward, so it was actually close to neutral.

 

But the practice itself dates back farther than 2020.  I think your anti-Trump and anti-conservative bias is blinding you to the bigger picture and preventing you from seeing things in a more historical context.

As I pointed out earlier because progressive courts in NY ruled that the gerrymandering was unconstitutional the map was redrawn more fairly. And Desantis' gerrymandering that is even more extreme than what the Republican state legislature proposed, is now in effect in Florida.

[jdlancaster]

The Chinese embarrassed themselves making such a big deal out of it. So much so, that the "little pinkies" (小粉紅) are throwing a fit online. They are posting videos of screaming and slapping themselves in the face in shame. It's hilarious. 

 

"China's final warning" (Последнее китайское предупреждение) has been going on for over 70 years. When everything is a red line and a disaster to US-China relations, nothing is. It's just business as usual. They will find something else to complain about soon enough and they will continue on doing what they planned on doing all along.

 

Most of this is really just for Chinese domestic propaganda purposes anyways. Plenty of US military and politicians visit. This may be  purposefully trying to stoke anti-US/foreign sentiment. Policy has been changing to push foreigners and foreign influence out for the last few years under Xi.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, jdlancaster said:

The Chinese embarrassed themselves making such a big deal out of it. So much so, that the "little pinkies" (小粉紅) are throwing a fit online. They are posting videos of screaming and slapping themselves in the face in shame. It's hilarious. 

 

"China's final warning" (Последнее китайское предупреждение) has been going on for over 70 years. When everything is a red line and a disaster to US-China relations, nothing is. It's just business as usual. They will find something else to complain about soon enough and they will continue on doing what they planned on doing all along.

 

Most of this is really just for Chinese domestic propaganda purposes anyways. Plenty of US military and politicians visit. This may be  purposefully trying to stoke anti-US/foreign sentiment. Policy has been changing to push foreigners and foreign influence out for the last few years under Xi.

Actually, I think it's a way to distract the Chinese govt from some of the very bad decisions that Xi has made that are hurting the economy. China now has very high unemployment. The zero covid policy is doomed to fail but will keep on disrupting the economy. Xi's policy now is to put official Marxist apparatchiks into the management of major businesses. And the housing market is a disaster.

[bendejo]

Isn't the support of despots and anti-democratic governments part of the "MAGA agenda"? 

The USA needs to get it's nomenclature together:  define what is pro-American vs pro-MAGA.  The world needs a clear picture of America's stance.  The person who wrote this seems to think that the US now stands as an anti-democracy force, that "real Americans" suck up to despots, and Pelosi is anti-American for her pro democracy stand.  American patriots (21st century edition, the ones flying flags on their pickup trucks) give in to strong foreign leaders, that's the new American way, delivered by a cowardly presidential impersonator.

My guess is the author would like Thailand to put aside this democracy silliness, that the iron heel is the way to. 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

13 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Politicians like Pelosi, Biden, McConnell are perfect poster children for the need for two things;

 

a/ Mandatory retirement ages

b/ Mandatory term limits

 

in the US goernment.    There is no reason on God's green earth why dinosaurs like this need to linger in Washington for decades.  They need to find gainful employment that doesn't involve sticking their collective snouts into the huge slopping trough of money known as Washington.

 

I propose: retirement at 70, or at the end of your current term of office if already 70. Max service of one re-election at each level. This would give a max possible time in Washington of 24 years.  Surely that is enough.

Ageist garbage.

 

Government is serious business with an impact on all of us.

 

We absolutely need the experience that comes with age.

 

 

[ozimoron]

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Ageist garbage.

 

Government is serious business with an impact on all of us.

 

We absolutely need the experience that comes with age.

we don't need the corruption that comes with incumbency. I'm not accusing Pelosi, just long political terms in general.

Edited August 4, 2022 by ozimoron

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use policy and another from an unapproved source have been removed.  

 

 

[bendejo]

Politicians like Pelosi, Biden, McConnell are perfect poster children for the need for two things;

a/ Mandatory retirement ages

b/ Mandatory term limits

 

Someone conspicuous in their absence from this list, betrays the poster's bias.

 

 

[Scott Tracy]

Nancy who?