Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[Bruno123]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Don't try to blame me for your own bad behavior. How I responded is not the point. Your bad behavior is the point. In a world of Cause and Effect, it's Cause  that earns the blame, not Effect!

 

Ultimately, you didn't get an answer your question.......... because your decision to be snarky proved you didn't deserve  an answer. 

 

Pffft!

...or maybe you just don't have a good answer, so you try to deflect. School playground.

[JetsetBkk]

14 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Why are you mocking President Trump over one of his greatest successes? Normalizing relations with North Korea pre Trump was as ridiculous a notion as bringing back American jobs. It would have taken a "magic wand" to establish a respectful relationship with the renegade nation. Yet that is exactly what Trump did. The incredible footage as Kim and Trump walked together across the border - just mind-blowing - even if the US msm ruined the world changing events by pushing the now debunked Trump Russia collusion hoax on the same day(he'll be in jail tomorrow, yipee we got him now, don't drop the soap - yes I revisited the thread) which overshadowed the actual events taking place on the ground.

 

 And you accuse Trump, without evidence, of having a homosexual love affair with Kim Jong-un. Charming. Yet my impression from all these trolly comments is this latest fishing expedition is just as big a failure as the last few. What doesn't kill Trump makes him stronger - would make a catchy pop tune.

You're wasting your time arguing with the brain-dead Biden lovers. Mid-terms will be fun!  ???? 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Even if that one is a buffoon like Trump!

Good to see that even a trump supporter recognises exactly what trump is, a buffoon! And therefore not hard to draw some logic on the fact that anyone who votes for a buffoon, is not exactly the most intelligent voter in the world!

 

Worst president ever, and one that was convicted of stealing over $2 million to fund his campaign, and as for normalising relationships with North Korea, all he did was to build up the ego of this despicable creature, so I hope all of the investigations into him and his activities bear fruit, and he gets his just rewards in prison.

[Bkk Brian]

47 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

And you accuse Trump, without evidence, of having a homosexual love affair with Kim Jong-un. Charming. Yet my impression from all these trolly comments is this latest fishing expedition is just as big a failure as the last few. What doesn't kill Trump makes him stronger - would make a catchy pop tune.

Why so sensitive there SunnyinBangrak? I was no more accusing him of having a homosexual affair with Kim Jong-un as he was himself............lol

 

President Donald Trump on Kim Jong Un: 'We fell in love' over 'beautiful letters'

 

'He wrote me beautiful letters and we fell in love': Donald Trump on Kim Jong-un - video

 

[androokery]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

from politifact of all places.

Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists Project on Government Secrecy, said that such authority gives the president the authority to "classify and declassify at will."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/16/james-risch/does-president-have-ability-declassify-anything-an/
 

Is this a machine? It's clear to EVERYONE that this notion of retroactive declassification is just a tactic employed after the fact. And AS SUCH - would you be comfortable with the outcome if this tactic succeeded? Even though you have NO IDEA what the documents that would then be declassified contain? That is the question.

[Eric Loh]

42 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

You're wasting your time arguing with the brain-dead Biden lovers. Mid-terms will be fun!  ???? 

Probably so last month but sentiments have perked up for Dem.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

46 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

You're wasting your time arguing with the brain-dead Biden lovers. Mid-terms will be fun!  ???? 

Awww another one who thinks that we are trump bashers because we do not like him or follow his MAGA dream crowd, and then because we write like we do you believe we love Biden, how nice....do you have any commentary on the OP or just wanted to troll.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

OK, it didn't take me too long.

 

The second post of the attached thread, calling for him to be locked up hours after news of the raid broke.

 

Post 6 saying they wouldn't have done the raid unless they had good reason.

 

Post 7 saying the FBI must be damned sure a crime had been committed otherwise they wouldn't do it.

 

Post 12 stating it is another case of treason.

 

That's 4 examples in  the first 12 posts. Continue to read it if you need more.

 

 

Shock!

 

The FBI seek warrants from Judges when the FBI have reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed or is in progress.

 

Judges authorize warrants when the FBI have demonstrated to the Judge that they have good cause to believe a crime has been committed or is in progress.

 

Who knew?!

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Actually, I said "a large number of people on this thread would do well to bear this in mind". 

 

As you will no doubt note, the people who made those comments on the other thread are also present on this thread. So your point, while extremely pedantic, is also moot.

 

Not a bad effort though... ???? 

Effort, hahahaha you made none to prove that those posters have stated the same here in this OP that he is guilty and should be arrested already... You are persistent I will give you that.  Once your hero is shown to be a true zero, how will you feel then....hold that thought for a few months and then get back to me.

[Berkshire]

19 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why so sensitive there SunnyinBangrak? I was no more accusing him of having a homosexual affair with Kim Jong-un as he was himself............lol

 

President Donald Trump on Kim Jong Un: 'We fell in love' over 'beautiful letters'

 

'He wrote me beautiful letters and we fell in love': Donald Trump on Kim Jong-un - video

 

I have it on good authority that Kim Jong's last words to Donald was...."It's not you, it's me."

[newnative]

5 hours ago, xylophone said:

It is pretty obvious that the trump supporters on this thread/forum do not want to understand the severity of what trump has done, something which has been proven by the fact that documents have been found at his fortress.

 

I can see no other reason than the fact that they are lying to themselves or lack the ability to understand what is written down in US law.

 

If that is the case, then all of the great posts by many folks on here, including @Walker88, @placeholder and @Chomper Higgot, to name just a few, are in vain, a bit like casting pearls to swine. The trump supporters here are indeed a lost cause.

 

The only concern I have, and one which they are hoping will come to fruition, is that even if the lard tub is found guilty of any one of a number of charges, that the powers that be do not have the cojones to jail him because they fear what his right-wing nut jobs will do, which is a sad indictment of where the US is at this moment in time.

      Liked your post.   Some examples on this thread of the lost causes you talk about.  No facts given, no evidence presented, nothing at all now or in the future is ever going to change their minds.  They've accepted the Big Lie.  You tell a Big Lie often enough and loud enough and with enough fake authority behind it and a certain percentage of the population will eventually come to believe it--especially if they are predisposed to want to believe it.  Sad but true.     

      As you say, they're a lost cause.   Truly.  They'll go to their graves believing Trump won in 2020, despite massive, overwhelming evidence to the contrary.   Not a thing can be done to change their minds.  Every piece of evidence presented, every election challenge court case thrown out, just hardens their belief. 

    Once you've accepted the Big Lie, you're pretty much compelled to accept all the other lies.  No going back, I'm afraid.  So, no problem with any of the literally thousands of other Trump lies.  No problem with anything at all that Trump says or does.   So, Trump says his own Vice President should have been hanged for not breaking the law on his behalf, no problem.  Think about that.  When you're at the point where you readily accept something as despicable as that, well, on the subject of Trump it's all over for you was a rational, thinking individual capable of fairly weighing information and making an intelligent assessment.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Bruno123 said:

Is it possible for you to have a discussion without demonstrating your very obvious bias?

Most people using this forum are not American, so are only interested in facts, not ridiculous political conspiracy theories; so all of your blather with regard to your hatred of anyone who doesn't agree with your politics is more than tedious.

What I want to know is why he kept the documents. Don't you want to know that?

Stop trying to deflect by playing partisan politics all of the time. It's already tedious.

 

 

Quite the rant.

 

Back to reality, as a neutral, I would like to know what evidence they had to make the raid.

 

Unfortunately they won't release it.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62558319

 

I'd have thought if they had sufficient evidence they would release it to shut up the people who are saying it was politically motivated. But no, they want to keep it a secret. No doubt all the Democrats on the forum will conclude that is because there is so much damning evidence there is no need to release it, it's clearly a slam dunk so what's the point of telling everyone. Some kind of weird logic like that. 

 

It's Trump anyway, no need for due process. Him very very bad man ????.

[Phoenix Rising]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Quite the rant.

Back to reality, as a neutral......

And that's where you lost me!

[JonnyF]

21 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Shock!

 

The FBI seek warrants from Judges when the FBI have reasonable cause to believe a crime has been committed or is in progress.

 

Judges authorize warrants when the FBI have demonstrated to the Judge that they have good cause to believe a crime has been committed or is in progress.

 

Who knew?!

Who knew that the FBI having 'good cause' to believe a crime has been committed, was the equivalent of a criminal conviction.

 

Shame they won't release what evidence they had to believe they had 'good cause'. Weird huh? Who could have predicted that? "Yeah we've got loads of evidence, but we're not telling anyone what it is". Sounds legit...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62558319

 

No need for due process. String him up.

[JonnyF]

Just now, Phoenix Rising said:

And that's where you lost me!

Simple things confuse simple minds ????

[ThailandRyan]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Quite the rant.

 

Back to reality, as a neutral, I would like to know what evidence they had to make the raid.

 

Unfortunately they won't release it.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62558319

 

I'd have thought if they had sufficient evidence they would release it to shut up the people who are saying it was politically motivated. But no, they want to keep it a secret. No doubt all the Democrats on the forum will conclude that is because there is so much damning evidence there is no need to release it, it's clearly a slam dunk so what's the point of telling everyone. Some kind of weird logic like that. 

 

It's Trump anyway, no need for due process. Him very very bad man ????.

You can wait like the rest of the world until an indictment is made and then the whole world will know what the charges are based upon the evidence, at which time the defense will be able to ask for discovery to see the evidence, but I think they already have an idea of where it's going and the Donald is trying to cast dispersions on this with his own narcissistic spin.

Edited August 16, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Quite the rant.

 

Back to reality, as a neutral, I would like to know what evidence they had to make the raid.

 

You completely lost my attention at this point "as a neutral"...............????

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Quite the rant.

 

Back to reality, as a neutral, I would like to know what evidence they had to make the raid.

 

Unfortunately they won't release it.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62558319

 

I'd have thought if they had sufficient evidence they would release it to shut up the people who are saying it was politically motivated. But no, they want to keep it a secret. No doubt all the Democrats on the forum will conclude that is because there is so much damning evidence there is no need to release it, it's clearly a slam dunk so what's the point of telling everyone. Some kind of weird logic like that. 

 

It's Trump anyway, no need for due process. Him very very bad man ????.

There are numerous reasons why the FBI might very legitimately withhold the arguments they made to get the warrant, tipping off the target(s) of their investigations is the most obvious.

 

For example:

The scope and breadth of the investigation. 

The cooperation of witnesses within the target(s)’ immediate sphere.

The ongoing use of wire taps or other means of surveillance.

The inclusion within the investigation of coconspirators.

 

Just a few very reasonable reasons, but I’m sure there are many more,

 

But don’t fret. If the FBI proceeds to an indictment, it is then that they shall provide the target(s)’ defense teams with all evidence gathered - Not before.
 

[JonnyF]

Just now, ThailandRyan said:

You can wait like the rest of the world until an indictment is made and then the whole world will know what the charges are based upon the evidence, at which time the defense will be able to ask for discovery to see the evidence.

Or maybe there will be no indictment, and the whole thing will be a 'big misunderstanding', like another third world country so close to our hearts.

 

I mean you've done the raid, refused to give the reason for having 'good cause'. Why not go the whole hog? 

[JonnyF]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

You completely lost my attention at this point "as a neutral"...............????

That's great, better you stop replying to my posts in that case.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Who knew that the FBI having 'good cause' to believe a crime has been committed, was the equivalent of a criminal conviction.

 

Shame they won't release what evidence they had to believe they had 'good cause'. Weird huh? Who could have predicted that? "Yeah we've got loads of evidence, but we're not telling anyone what it is". Sounds legit...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62558319

 

No need for due process. String him up.

I’ve never once suggested that evidence of crime is equivalent to a conviction.

 

Please quell your histrionics.

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

There are numerous reasons why the FBI might very legitimately withhold the arguments they made to get the warrant, tipping off the target(s) of their investigations is the most obvious.

 

For example:

The scope and breadth of the investigation. 

The cooperation of witnesses within the target(s)’ immediate sphere.

The ongoing use of wire taps or other means of surveillance.

The inclusion within the investigation of coconspirators.

 

Just a few very reasonable reasons, but I’m sure there are many more,

 

But don’t fret. If the FBI proceeds to an indictment, it is then that they shall provide the target(s)’ defense teams with all evidence gathered - Not before.
 

Possible...

 

Another possible reason? The evidence was so flimsy that the only reason that could be concluded from such unprecedented action was state agencies being used to harrass/discredit political rivals.

 

Just trying to see both sides of the coin...

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Or maybe there will be no indictment, and the whole thing will be a 'big misunderstanding', like another third world country so close to our hearts.

 

I mean you've done the raid, refused to give the reason for having 'good cause'. Why not go the whole hog? 

Oh you want them to disclose the whole case and try it in the court of public opinion....is that called the New Due Process......

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, JonnyF said:

That's great, better you stop replying to my posts in that case.

Nah, I prefer to make my own decisions on that when you actually have something worthwhile to comment on. Rather than your tired disclaimer that you think absolves you from your obvious bias.

[SunnyinBangrak]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

You can wait like the rest of the world until an indictment is made and then the whole world will know what the charges are based upon the evidence, at which time the defense will be able to ask for discovery to see the evidence.

Or more likely, as it has been several days past with no news just climbdowns that Garland did in fact know about it and that it is not nuclear material or whatever, that there will be no indictment.

If they had ANYTHING at all they would have charged him on the first day. They will have known they had to get it right this time, after many judicial and authority attacks on him failed dismally. They will have realized that to storm his house and even go as far as looking at Melania's underwear drawer they had better come out fast and with grade A evidence of a serious crime that was a clear and present danger to America.

 Huge fail. Now ex Presidents will get their houses stormed whenever the current President needs an urgent distraction, just like they will be impeached whenever the opposition don't like a President. The damage to democracy these hateful democrats have caused is unfathomable.

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

Actually, if the "defendant" can show that it was the government itself that created the confusion........... it is.

 

(I got a speeding ticket thrown out for this very reason. I was able to show that a particular stretch of road in Anacortes, WA, actually had TWO posted speed limits, depending on how you arrived on that particular stretch of road. They threw out the ticket because the government itself  had created the confusion.)

If you want to reduce this to speeding tickets, Trump had multiple warnings and requests for co-operation before the FBI raid. False equivalence yet again, but you should mention it to Trump's lawyers. You know, the one who said all the documents had been returned.

[Bruno123]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Quite the rant.

 

Back to reality, as a neutral, I would like to know what evidence they had to make the raid.

 

Unfortunately they won't release it.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62558319

 

I'd have thought if they had sufficient evidence they would release it to shut up the people who are saying it was politically motivated. But no, they want to keep it a secret. No doubt all the Democrats on the forum will conclude that is because there is so much damning evidence there is no need to release it, it's clearly a slam dunk so what's the point of telling everyone. Some kind of weird logic like that. 

 

It's Trump anyway, no need for due process. Him very very bad man ????.

 

Quite pathetic that you had to start by labelling my quite salient post as a rant, in order to deflect once again.

Why is it more important to you as to what evidence they had to make the raid, as opposed to whether he really had classified documents that he knew he wasn't supposed to hold?

Do you care as to whether he is guilty or are you more concerned about protecting a potential criminal?

 

It looks like the latter from where I am sitting.  As if you are trying to get him off the hook on a technicality. What if he is a filthy traitor, in the pocket of Putin? Have you actually ever considered that or is that too much for your mind to ever consider?

What I know about Trump is that is somewhat of a 'snake oil salesman' and a an apparent narcissist. This long before he got into politics.

 

As to the political side of things, again I don't get involved other than to take what he says at face value. 

I will say one thing positive about him; that he is a maverick and certainly shook things up a bit; but a lot of it was just smoke and mirrors...a bit like they way he ran his business. He fooled a lot of people, but not everyone.

 

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Possible...

 

Another possible reason? The evidence was so flimsy that the only reason that could be concluded from such unprecedented action was state agencies being used to harrass/discredit political rivals.

 

Just trying to see both sides of the coin...

Oh what a juicy Billion dollar lawsuit that would be, better make it a class action lawsuit to get a few coins tossed your way for your injured ego.

[JonnyF]

Just now, ThailandRyan said:

Oh you want them to disclose the whole case and try it in the court of public opinion....is that called the New Due Process......

Given the amount of criticism they have taken, if they had solid reasons for such unprecedented action they may have wished to disclose it to quash the rumours and restore some credibility to the Bureau. This is not some low level dope dealing investigation, it is core to the credibility of the country.

 

That's if they had anything of course.

 

If they had very spurious reasons for raid and found nothing, the current policy of saying nothing might be prudent. Let things die down, then try to let it fade away until there's some new drama stealing the headlines. Kind of like the policy countries like Thailand take.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Possible...

 

Another possible reason? The evidence was so flimsy that the only reason that could be concluded from such unprecedented action was state agencies being used to harrass/discredit political rivals.

 

Just trying to see both sides of the coin...

Really, so a conspiracy between the Dems, the DoJ, the FBI and the Federal Judge that signed the warrant.

 

Please, keep your imagination within the realms of the real fact based world.

 

Investigations are on going, be patient.

 

We don’t need your ludicrous conspiracy theory, simply because it is ludicrous.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Chomper Higgot