Thailand’s once mighty foreign tourism industry lastingly damaged with lower spends and numbers

[allyoops]

There are many factors to people staying away and most have already been mentioned. Thailand used to be a cheap holiday but that was no longer the case even before the virus, so people are looking elsewhere or staying home. It's an accumulation of things but TAT really only ever makes things worse. Petty charges, dual pricing, changing the rules, etc etc. TAT is Thailands worst enemy as far as tourism goes. For years now they have rubbished western visitors, letting them know they can come and spend their money but they are not welcome. With financial hard times ahead and high air fares the best thing Thailand can do is rid itself of TAT and start again with people who understand foreigners and are  not racist.

[Thunglom]

11 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand’s foreign tourism sector appears to have suffered permanent damage due to the country’s emergency since 2020 with projected visitor numbers and a foreign tourism revenue stream this year which will be between 65% and 75% lower than that seen in 2019.

Well I don't see how they think it's permanent.

 

It is fairly obvious that returning tourists will spend less if there is less to spend on. Many small businesses have gone out of business - As said about a year ago, unless the government 

makes more effort to support small businesses to recover the damage COLD be permanent to longterm, but one hopes they'll raise this.

 

It should also be noted that Chinese were some of the consistently highest spenders on a daily basis and they used to compose about 25% of the market - they are yet to return

 

 

[French mate]

2 hours ago, madmitch said:

 

On a separate point, the reason France is faring better than Thailand is down to geography, with the country easily reachable from the whole of Europe and attracts long-stayers, weekenders and day-trippers alike.

 

You right on this point, with the country "aura" its one of the big reason France have been  the N°1 visited country in the world for more than a decade now.

But today their is also another important point : during the pandemic France have heavily subsidizes the tourism industry, resulting in even less bankrupcy than in normals years.
So now, all the buisness are still there and ready to welcome and provide their usuals services to large numbers of tourists.
If by some magic the number of tourists in thailand would sudently be back at 2019 level like in France now, their would be a massive lack of services, hotels, restaurants, tour operators and everything associated with the tourist activity/service.

[dannyb123]

2 hours ago, FarangFB said:

Yeah let's cut earnings from those who have been mostly affected in the past 2.5 years (hotels, air transport). They're are already heavily discounted, I live in Thailand and when I go to Bangkok there are many great hotel choices for the cheapest price they've ever been. Even under 1000b you can find some quite decent places.

 

The baht has been the weakest since I've been coming here (2010).

 

I can blame 10 other things for lack of tourists but not the baht or the hotels.

You must be a yank. Both USD and the baht are overvalued - see here. If the currency manipulators (aka thai government) let the baht go down to its fair value, or heaven forbid undervalued, it would undoubtedly stimulate tourism. 

[tomacht8]

The problem Thailand's tourism suffers from is the incompetence of the country's leaders and the heads of the various institutions.

 

The lack of realistic goals, sensible planning, clearly defined measures, concerted coordination and communication is catastrophic.

 

For the exogenous factors like the Russian war, China's Zero C19 policy, fuel costs, etc Thailand can't do anything.

 

But for all endogenous factors yes. And these are handled super badly.

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Very important point to drive home. People are already starting to backpedal but we mustn't let them. It's common now to hear "because of COVID ..." Wrong, because of YOU, it was your personal actions and your fault for implementing or supporting certain policies. Never forget, never forgive.

Yes. But imagine any official here taking responsibility for problems of their own making? Much less tiny men like Cha Cha and Prawit? 

[VinnieK]

Banning masks would be a good start 

Otherwise, thais will be wearing them for many years to come.

 

[mjakob007]

12 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Not to worry, Indian trillionnaires to save the day! 1 million of them expected to arrive on Dec. 31st, on 99 chartered airplanes...

Buddies in Pattaya reports: they are flooded with indians. but it appears they are all hoarded off to newly purpose built night clubs for them. Apparently, many restaurants catering to their cuisine are busy as well.

 

Apparently the new pricing structure from agogo industry (BF ranging from 1500-2500) would also discourage patrons from participating

[Baron Samedi]

Chinese people will be back at some point.

Indians are already there.

Retirement boom in the West = more old farangs.

The demographics might change, money might be generated differently but at the end of the day, tourism in Thailand will recover in the long run.

Might take some time though.

I feel a bit sorry for all those businesses opening everywhere right now. Owners might be in for a nasty surprise if we have a double dip recession...

Edited September 1, 2022 by Baron Samedi

[CygnusX1]

15 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

Banning masks would be a good start 

Otherwise, thais will be wearing them for many years to come.

Sorry VinnieK, but even I wouldn’t go so far as to BAN masks. Maybe just gently encouraging people that constantly wearing a face mask to slightly reduce the chances of contracting a virus that for the great majority of people causes symptoms no worse than influenza or a bad cold is a little over the top. I do fear, however, that you’re correct in that Thai people will be wearing them for many years to come.

[tomacht8]

Unfortunately, the problems already begin with the correct determination of the tourism figures. It's all so incredibly superficial, unspecific and independent of the target groups.

 

So far top 1-4:

around 600,000 Malaysian visitors (mostly pure day tourists)

around 430,000 Indian visitors (certainly not all millionaires)

around 300,000 Laotian visitors (many of them looking for a job in Thailand) around 200,000 Singapore visitors (more typical short-term tourists).

 

Also, for example, expats with a Thai family, pensioners, medical tourists, business travelers, etc. are not recorded properly.

 

Whoever crosses the Thai border is mercilessly counted as a tourist. So at the end of the year you come up with great numbers that ultimately say nothing and are also not suitable for planning and measuring success.

 

In the end remains only a glass ball of data scrap.

 

[geisha]

12 hours ago, Sheryl said:

They need to address the unnecessarily cumbersome and difficult new evisa process.

 

It is completely absurd to require tourists from first world countries to submit proof of having $1,000 in the bank (most are paying that much or more just for the air ticket) to get a tourist visa.

 

And unreasonable to expect would be tourists to upload bank statements and similar sensitive documents to an insecure government website.

 

Most of the information demanded in the tourist visa application is unnecessary, can be hard to provide (people often want to select their hotel on arrival, for example) and it discourages people or leads them to instead come for a shorter time visa exempt.

 

Easy to increase tourists: (1) Extend the duration of visa exempt enter from 30 to 45 days as has been proposed.  (2) Change the evisa for tourist visas to a simple process like that used by Cambodia (nothing needed but name,. address, passport data).

Best post yet !! Nearly every condo I have rented over many years has been full of snowbirds. Well off  retirees who can afford the nicer condos, eat in restaurants every night and generally spend money. I’m one of them. The biggest hurdle for us, is getting the visas. Many, like myself, get so fed up they used the Visa exempt way, which is good, ( apart from Covid times) but not everyone wants the hassle. So, either a shorter stay, myself, or go elsewhere. Why is it so complicated , it’s sheer ignorance on the government’s part. All the neighboring countries seem to manage  fine .

Thailands problems won’t go away, they will get worse.

[Mavideol]

in order to attract "better quality" tourists some things have to drastically change .... road safety, overall country infrastructures and safety, citizens attitude towards tourists (not treating them as walking ATM cash machines, stopping the scams) give an image of a safe country uncorrupt country to the outside world, that's the start

Edited September 1, 2022 by Mavideol

[Netease]

12 hours ago, smedly said:

what magical scheme will they come up with next to reduce the numbers further, there has to be something that excels beyond anything they have done up to now.....can they out do themselves in blatant stupidly ?, tall order but I bet they succeed 

I got one for you

I travel CNX to Sydney, last night I went to check in could do the CNX to BKK ok gets to BKK about 2.30 pm then my booked flight to Sydney at about 6.00pm was changed to 8.30am the same day, first i thought they have a plane that can go back in time, not to be

So a frantic phone call to Thai Airways (amazed I  got through) got a flight booked BKK to Sydney for the next day, so have to stay over night and pay for hotel.

I was told by Thai Airways they are no longer flying BKK to Sydney in the afternoon only 8.30 am.

So $270 later for the Novertel at the airport.

Welcome Tourists visit Chiang Mai with the hidden extra costs

[Gknrd]

Good luck Thailand, inflation is out of control. Stock market is in shambles. Thailand is not doing any better but they think they are the center of the universe for travel...hahahaha

Problem is the prediction is that for the next 5 years minimum it is going to be nightmare at best for many countries and their citizens.

As far as not spending as much. I am in that category. As usual as inflation bites the US dollar goes to record highs. So I only came here because I have a few bucks saved and the hotels are offering huge discounts. If not for that I would not set foot here. I am one of the ones that is not putting up with the stupid immigration and visa rules.. In a nut shell Scr$w Thailand.

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Gknrd

[KhaoYai]

9 hours ago, mania said:

ANA & United have some good deals going.

Also not sure if true as we couldn't wait to book but some say airfares always drop after Labor day in the US

Will see as that is Monday

Prices from Europe are very high at the moment. They will drop a little now the school holidays are ending but Christmas, a time when they are always higher, is crazy at the moment.

[3NUMBAS]

after covid everyones skint and paying off their bils if they still have a job

[Purdey]

Disregarding the dual nationality issue for a moment, I have come to doubt that Thailand has ever really understood why tourists come here. The original epitome of a US R&R resort, Thailand has let beaches get dirtier and ripoffs become like a government policy (e.g. dual pricing). Not sure anyone remembers when they tried to stop long-haired hippies entering. 

The impression Thailand sometimes gives is "we don't have a clue how to ensure foreigners want to come here but we need your money." Shooting themselves in the foot is their speciality. 

France is a major economy and makes it easy to enjoy their culture with well organized tourist venues. Is there dual pricing on entry to the Eiffel Tower? The Louvre?

Better still, tourism is only 8.5% (2019) of France's economy.

France doesn't just rely on tourism.

I am not sure, but if they want to improve their turnover of tourists perhaps asking for professional advice from successful tourist destination experts is one route. Clean the beaches and roads. Put signs in English as well as Thai in museums outside Bangkok. Charge Thais and foreigners the same entry fees. 

While you cannot determine the quality of tourists (there are disgusting but rich tourists everywhere) changing the government's attitude will build the image that attracts tourists, things like "clean beaches, honest people, rich cultural attractions" would be a start.

The usual excuse is the country is poor. But try saying Thailand is a third world country and government officers are offended and defensive. I can understand Iran, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka (just examples, there are more) using this excuse but surely Thailand has more to offer if it could just get its house in order and understand what tourists want?

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, Purdey said:

France is a major economy and makes it easy to enjoy their culture with well organized tourist venues. Is there dual pricing on entry to the Eiffel Tower?

Although its about 1000 Baht to get to the top of the Eiffel tower , which is about double what Thai dual price attractions charge  

[daveAustin]

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Although its about 1000 Baht to get to the top of the Eiffel tower , which is about double what Thai dual price attractions charge  

The average Frenchman probably earns 10x that of a Thai. Naive to compare western attractions/prices to a developing country like that. 
 

Main reasons are money, covid restrictions and hassles at airports etc, and the fact that when Europeans traditionally book their summer holidays Thailand was still heavily restricted. 

[bangon04]

5 hours ago, flyfrog said:

Hope the Indian trillionaires smoke a lo of weed, cause this is the new hype for the moment or will it attrack more back packers????

Maybe the TAT could start a huge promotion in Jamaica........

[geisha]

29 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Although its about 1000 Baht to get to the top of the Eiffel tower , which is about double what Thai dual price attractions charge  

You can’t compare the two. When you hire anyone in France you pay their URSSAF social security, Ameli free health for most, health insurance compliment ( Mutuelle) . They get 40 hrs week , or less, are paid from the SS when they are sick, get paid holidays 5 weeks a year, and, at the end , a usually good pension until they die. People on the dole are paid , every one gets a free obligatory education, children do not work, a family get free health care, plus benefits for every child a family has , tax free for most etc etc etc. Tell me how Thai workers  are protected please ? All that, comes at a cost. This is why western countries have higher prices for food/ hotels / houses etc. It’s not rocket science. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

57 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

The average Frenchman probably earns 10x that of a Thai. Naive to compare western attractions/prices to a developing country like that. 
 

 

So why shouldn't a Frenchman pay more to get into some places in Thailand , after all, he receives more money than Thais ?

[billd766]

3 hours ago, VinnieK said:

Banning masks would be a good start 

Otherwise, thais will be wearing them for many years to come.

 

I live in rural Kamphaeng Phet and I find less Thais are wearing masks out here. I carry a mask but don't normally wear it and so far nobody locally has asked me to put it on in any of the shops or markets.

[zzaa09]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I live in rural Kamphaeng Phet and I find less Thais are wearing masks out here. I carry a mask but don't normally wear it and so far nobody locally has asked me to put it on in any of the shops or markets.

This is probably more realistic reflection of currents trends upcountry. 

[MrJ2U]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

"lastingly damaged"

 

And they know that after the Covid restrictions are lifted since maybe 1/2 years?

Yes, something/someone is definitely "lastingly damaged"...

Many hotels/restaurants are out of business.  Many that are still here have borrowed to the hilt.

 

Tourists will always come to Thailand though. 

[DrJoy]

16 hours ago, Sheryl said:

(nothing needed but name,. address, passport data)

The Thais may not get good sleep, if paperwork is reduced.

[BangkokReady]

13 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

If Thailand seriously wanted more tourists they could start offering discounted rooms more, sub the national carrier to drop flight costs, try to get the baht weaker, loads more they could do, but they still think Thailand as some golden tourist hotspot that tourists will flock to - they are now finding out, people still wont come and those that come wont spend much , simply as they dont have much !

But instead, they choose to try and make things more expensive and laborious, believing that it will make more people want to visit.  I think the problem might be that some Thais make the mistake of believing their own face-giving nonsense and think the world will as well.

 

I suppose it's possible that Thailand has actually never found itself in the position where it needed to work to attract tourist.  It's never had to before, it has simply enjoyed a constant supply of tourists coming to party and go to the beach, while droning on about how they're going to change it all and attract high-quality tourists to their family friendly resorts.

 

Now the sh*t's hit the fan and all they have to work with is their cockamamy schemes that only serve to pretend that Thailand is something that it is not, and those just aren't going to cut it.

 

They need to admit that they made their fortune on the back of alcohol, prostitutes and cheap beach holidays, then go back to doing that.

Edited September 1, 2022 by BangkokReady

[DrJoy]

11 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

$1000 on plane ticket to Thailand and arrive with literally zero dollars in the bank

No $1000 , no can do

[racket]

14 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Bangkok seems to be mostly Arabs walking the malls and going for medical tourism.

Big influx of Indian males in Pattaya walking around, getting massages hitting on girls on Beach Road.

That is the majority of tourists I have seen can't remember the last time I saw a western family here on holiday. School has started now they won't be coming anyway.

The Chinese will change the numbers significantly when they start coming, but a world wide recession could kill any large recovery until 2024.

If the Chinese economy slows down, due to their property sector being wiped out, then I can hardly see them coming in huge numbers ever again. Their zero-covid policy is an absolute disaster for which it would ultimately make it harder for people to travel in and out from China. 

 

Westerners in particular don't see Thailand as what it once were. The Mediterranean is still the hot spot for many northern Europeans. Americans are flocking to Europe due to USD/EUR parity. This is despite the ongoing war in Ukraine. 

 

Inflation is also starting to become a concern in Thailand which puts pressure on tourism spending as well. BOT are behind the curve trying to fight it, so a recession might be necessary to bring prices down.