Reducing my house electricity costs – any advice please .

[Yorkie]

20 hours ago, Yorkie said:

Are you sure about that?

 

My information is that the charges per unit will stay the same (0 - 150 = ฿3.2484; 151 - 400 = ฿4.2218; over 401 = ฿4.4217) however the FT charge will increase from ฿0.2477 to ฿0.9343 which applies to all units used.

 

I've attached a residential electric calculator. The FT reflects the value last month but may be changed.

 

 

electric calculator.xlsx

[MJCM]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

I've attached a residential electric calculator. The FT reflects the value last month but may be changed.

 

Nicely done.

 

If you go to https://eservice.pea.co.th/EstimateBill/# and select September 2022 (till December 2022) the Ft rate there has already been updated to 93.43 Satang/kWh, but the Estimate on the site doesn't take in consideration the "promised" discount ????

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

 

I've attached a residential electric calculator. The FT reflects the value last month but may be changed.

 

 

electric calculator.xlsx 11.89 kB · 2 downloads

While the residential section is party correct there are a couple of rather glaring errors. You define the supply as up to 15 amps and over 15 amps. The PEA makes no such difference, the meters are rated by the guaranteed accuracy of the supply that is measured in amps. Also the general limit for an accurately metered domestic supply is 300 amps from a 30/100 amp supply at 3 phase (where it is available)

 

the second supposed supply is not domestic but Small General Service , that is the one with the ฿46.16 standing charge

Quote

Applicable to businesses, businesses with residential, industrials, government institutions, local authorities, state enterprises, embassies, establishments related to foreign countries or international organizations, and so on, including their compound with the maximum of an average integrated demand of energy in 15 minutes lower than 30 kW., through a single Watt-hour meter. 

So while your spreadsheet may have calculated the charges correctly  you certainly did not get the labels for fields acutely named.

the pink fields are inaccurately labelled, the math may be accurate, I didn’t check it.

[Chris.B]

22 hours ago, MJCM said:

Not possible without a Major Investment. Because my Wife wakes up at around sunset, drinks a coffee and is into the garden and that time No Sun that is of any strength is out. Same in the evening (She comes into the house around 7-8pm (I told you she is a garden NUT). So this would require a BIG BIG battery. (and they are not cheap)

 

Own "lake" used to raise fish and in the dry season fed by a Submersible Deep Well Solar pump ????

 

How much did the fencing cost? Is that barbed wire or non-barbed?

[Chris.B]

7 hours ago, Andre0720 said:

Appears to me that this electricity bill is quite low already, at least very reasonable when comparing to other users.

So from a starting point of 1,500 bahts, you are looking at savings certainly not significant.

As a point of comparison, when I had my old air conditioner replaced in my small apartment with a standard Eminent unit, same BTU consumption, my bill went down by some 1,200 bahts. My air cond. runs all night at 24 degrees for the bedroom only.

But I have worries also, like thinking about leaving behind too much money that others will enjoy spending...

????????

1200 baht a month? That is some saving!

 

[MJCM]

26 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

How much did the fencing cost? Is that barbed wire or non-barbed?

No idea as it was constructed in 2020 same as the digging of the lake and the "klong" but it was a lot of columns and a couple 100m of Barbed wire.

[Yorkie]

3 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

While the residential section is party correct there are a couple of rather glaring errors. You define the supply as up to 15 amps and over 15 amps. The PEA makes no such difference, the meters are rated by the guaranteed accuracy of the supply that is measured in amps. Also the general limit for an accurately metered domestic supply is 300 amps from a 30/100 amp supply at 3 phase (where it is available)

 

the second supposed supply is not domestic but Small General Service , that is the one with the ฿46.16 standing charge

So while your spreadsheet may have calculated the charges correctly  you certainly did not get the labels for fields acutely named.

the pink fields are inaccurately labelled, the math may be accurate, I didn’t check it.

 

Perhaps you could assist me in the labelling for the future.

 

The information therein was gleaned from the head man in PEA Surin because not one of the other employees there had a clue on how the domestic electricity bill was calculated (6 years ago).

 

This calculator has worked for me to confirm the accuracy my bill for the last six years (within a few satang). I have a 30/100 supply/meter, single phase.

 

I attach a copy of last month's bill.

 

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Yorkie said:

Perhaps you could assist me in the labelling for the future.

The PEA has the information for you to correct your spreadsheet. I’m sure you can find it from this..

[KIngsofisaan]

On 9/5/2022 at 3:07 AM, Custard boy said:

A big thanks to every one for your comments and advice.  I will certainly be looking into every possibility . I’m a 70+ year  old age pensioner who’s sole income is derived from my British ( frozen ) government old age pension . It’s plainly obvious to those of us that are permanently residing here in Thailand that generally speaking the cost of living has risen and things have / are shooting up in price.

 

So trying to save a few Baht where ever I can including on our monthly electricity cost is some thing that I wanted to look at . I fondly recall my dear old departed dad often saying a penny saved is a penny gained.  

 

I burnt all my bridges when I permanently moved here to Thailand , so returning back to the UK is sadly never going to happen. ????

 

.

For all the Brits, that frozen pension deal is a screw job.

[MJCM]

Received my Aug- Sept Bill today.

 

Used a lot less then 300 Units and Ft rate was 0.01390

 

So a massive discount from the original Ft rate of 0.9343

[Crossy]

2 hours ago, MJCM said:

Received my Aug- Sept Bill today.

 

Used a lot less then 300 Units and Ft rate was 0.01390

 

So a massive discount from the original Ft rate of 0.9343

 

Yeah, we shall see what occurs on the 19th when we get our bill, also heading for a sub 300 unit bill unless we get some really dull days.

 

[MJCM]

44 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, we shall see what occurs on the 19th when we get our bill, also heading for a sub 300unit bill unless we get some really dull days.

 

if you stay in the 300 - 350 units range your surcharge (FT) should be around (0.9343 - 0.515 = 0.4913) and if you stay in the 351 - 400 units range the extra Ft Charge it would be (0.9343 - 0.309 = 0.6253) .

 

If in the 401 - 500 range your Ft Surcharge would be (0.9343 - 0.103 = 0.8313)

 

Over 500 units NO discount and you pay the full 0.9343 Ft charge

 

Please note: F^_t charge is charged per kWh/Unit!

 

I used the figures from this link https://aseannow.com/topic/1271800-cabinet-approves-energy-pricing-measures/

 

Sorry for any Arithmetic errors ????

 

Edit: This discount has only been approved for the months Sept - Dec.

[Yorkie]

On 9/15/2022 at 2:43 PM, MJCM said:

Received my Aug- Sept Bill today.

 

Used a lot less then 300 Units and Ft rate was 0.01390

 

So a massive discount from the original Ft rate of 0.9343

We received our bill today. 237 units and the Ft rate was 0.9343; no discount!

[MJCM]

20 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

We received our bill today. 237 units and the Ft rate was 0.9343; no discount!

That is weird

 

Under the amount of the FT rate there should ALSO be a Minus amount? Do you have that?

 

And under the total units used (on the left hand side) there should be in Thai that you got a a Discount and the amount!

 

 

This is the discount table, if you did not get the discount then you should talk to the PEA why you didn't get it.

 

Sorry for any arithmetic errors ????

 

Can you post your PEA Bill (obscure any personal info)

[Yorkie]

22 minutes ago, MJCM said:

That is weird

 

Under the amount of the FT rate there should ALSO be a Minus amount? Do you have that?

 

And under the total units used (on the left hand side) there should be in Thai that you got a a Discount and the amount!

 

 

This is the discount table, if you did not get the discount then you should talk to the PEA why you didn't get it.

 

Sorry for any arithmetic errors ????

 

Can you post your PEA Bill (obscure any personal info)

There is no minus amount. We have had minus amounts for the last few months but not this one.

 

I believe that the reason for zero discount is that last month my wife changed the name of the houseowner (something she's been intending to do for 15 years!). There is a note to that effect on the bill and it states the discount will be applied October to December.

[MJCM]

7 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I believe that the reason for zero discount is that last month my wife changed the name of the houseowner (something she's been intending to do for 15 years!). There is a note on the bill that states the discount will be applied October to December.

ahaha that explains it. but for future reference (read other members) here is a copy of our most recent bill and if you look at the highlighted areas we got a discount of 175.80 (original Ft rate amount was 178.45) which translates to a discount of 0,9204 per unit (equals to : discount when used less then 300 Units)

 

 

 

[Crossy]

Yup, we got a -ve entry under the FT figure too, under 300kWh used, similar discount.

 

[Yorkie]

This is an interesting bill - no discount!

 

 

[Yorkie]

1 minute ago, Yorkie said:

This is an interesting bill - no discount!

 

 

 

The story is that the household use solar power for the majority of the time. However, PEA refuse to believe a ฿0.00 bill and have replaced his meter a number of times assuming that it's faulty.

[Lemsta69]

thanks for explaining this 0.9343 FT thingy. I got quite the shock when I picked up my latest bill. I somehow managed to use 638 killer wasps and the FT was B596.08! total was B3,455.43.

 

I can easily afford it but still I'm ashamed to have used that much power just for myself. my Scottish mother will be very, very disappointed ????

[MJCM]

11 hours ago, Yorkie said:

This is an interesting bill - no discount!

 

 

Talk to @Bandersnatch he also has his meter replaced several times as he uses Solar to power his house but just keeps the PEA for backup which is a good thing.

 

The 38.22 THB is the standard service charge for having an electric meter over 15A. The service charge for the 5/15A meter is 8.19 THB.-

 

This bill is from a house that is on 5/15A meter and just has low usage only a night light burning as no one lives there so that is why only 2 Units usage. But the bill is 0 THB because it qualifies for free electric (3 months under 50 Units used) (And also no Discount for the Ft)

 

 

 

[EdrigoSalvadore]

Is it common to have a faulty meter? I se about 425 units each month in my 40 sqm apartment, which only I stay. I do use a lot of air conditioner and boil a bunch of water and use a laptop too. Is it possible my meter can be broken? I have my air conditioner on 25 degrees Celsius.

[MJCM]

6 minutes ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

Is it common to have a faulty meter? I se about 425 units each month in my 40 sqm apartment, which only I stay. I do use a lot of air conditioner and boil a bunch of water and use a laptop too. Is it possible my meter can be broken? I have my air conditioner on 25 degrees Celsius.

you can easily check if your meter is faulty.

 

turn everything off in the house (pull out all plugs) and see if the meter is still spinning 

some questions please

 

How old is your aircon?

how big is the aircon? BTU I mean?

how big is the room it has to cool?

 

we changed the aircon in our condo to an inverter and it reduced our electric bill in half. 

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, EdrigoSalvadore said:

I have my air conditioner on 25 degrees Celsius.

 

The A/C is going to be the killer. Do you have an idea how many BTU it is?

 

425 units over a month is about 14 units a day, so an average load of just over 1kW.

 

A 12,000 BTU A/C would use that if it's working hard.

 

EDIT To answer the actual question, yes meters do go faulty and yes, they can read high. MEA/PEA will install a check-meter if you ask but if they find no fault they will bill you for doing it.

 

EDIT 2 I note you say "apartment", does this mean you get the bill from your landlord rather than directly from the authority? 

[Bandersnatch]

14 hours ago, Yorkie said:

This is an interesting bill - no discount!

 

 

 

@Yorkie I had a bill just like that this month ???? 

 

3 hours ago, MJCM said:

Talk to @Bandersnatch he also has his meter replaced several times as he uses Solar to power his house but just keeps the PEA for backup which is a good thing.

 

@MJCM - Yes that's my bill for this month.

 

Like others have posted I have several smart plugs that can be programmed to switch off devices at certain times and record the power used by devices attached to it.

 

I also have a Home Energy Monitoring System - in fact 2 one for household power usage and one for the power my EV uses.

 

Short video I made of the system in operation:

 

 

 

Here is a much longer more detailed video that I made of the system:

 

 

 

 

[MJCM]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

@MJCM - Yes that's my bill for this month.

 

Personally I am not going for a 0 Unit Pea bill but will settle for a bill in the low 100s, because of the investment (read Battery) but maybe in the future.

 

Question please: What was your highest PEA Bill (kWh wise) since you got Solar installed?

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, MJCM said:

Personally I am not going for a 0 Unit Pea bill but will settle for a bill in the low 100s, because of the investment (read Battery) but maybe in the future.

 

Question please: What was your highest PEA Bill (kWh wise) since you got Solar installed?

17kWh Is the most I have used in a month. That happened when I charged my EV in the afternoon with lots of sun it then clouded over and I drained my house batteries into my car.

Currently I can’t feed power back from my car batteries into the house batteries. My next EV will have V2L and will be able to.

[KannikaP]

5 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

@Yorkie I had a bill just like that this month ???? 

 

 

@MJCM - Yes that's my bill for this month.

 

Like others have posted I have several smart plugs that can be programmed to switch off devices at certain times and record the power used by devices attached to it.

 

I also have a Home Energy Monitoring System - in fact 2 one for household power usage and one for the power my EV uses.

 

Short video I made of the system in operation:

 

 

 

Here is a much longer more detailed video that I made of the system:

 

 

 

 

Very interesting and I shall look into getting one. However it must take quite a while for your coffee machine ie kettle to boil the water if it is only 700 watts. most are in the 3kw range. 

The energy monitor you got from Momo, is it OK just to monitor my PEA consumption?

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, MJCM said:

Personally I am not going for a 0 Unit Pea bill but will settle for a bill in the low 100s, because of the investment (read Battery) but maybe in the future.

 

Question please: What was your highest PEA Bill (kWh wise) since you got Solar installed?

What's your present PEA unit/kW usage ?

 

At present, our solar/panels & ESS provide all needed, and being sort of conservative, that's less than 15 kW a day.  2 frigs 1 AC (inv. 9K BTU), 1 fan are the mandatory appliances. 2 people, no water pump, couple electric kitchen appliance.

 

6.5 kw of that is overnight on the battery, using 2 frigs, AC, laptop/65 in TV from 1800-0700.

 

1800-2300  accounts for about 4kW, then the other 2.5 is while we're sleeping & sunrise coffee.  Usually battery near 100% (10kW) at sunset, and not <35% (3.5kW) when solar starts producing again.

 

TV off about 2300 hrs, and AC on every so often w/floor fan, till about same time.  Then fan usually the rest of the night while sleeping.  Cooking, dinner, showers done before sunset.  Purposely being minimalistic, though AC use, as curious if solar is enough to be self sufficient.  Actually our system (8kW & ESS) is way more than needed, even when not conservative.  Which we're not very conservative any more, though interesting when testing.

 

Any system 3kw & up, should provide 10kW a day & up, no ESS.

Mr Google states 3kW inverter provides 300-400kW a month

Without the ESS, our monthly usage would be ~200kW for

overnight use.  So PEA bill would be around B1000

 

3 or 5kW system should provide most with plenty of daytime use.  I don't think most need to use AC (sporadically) & 65in TV at night for 5 ish hrs after sunset, so 200kW of PEA a month, for overnight should be high end for most folks.

[MJCM]

30 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

17kWh Is the most I have used in a month. That happened when I charged my EV in the afternoon with lots of sun it then clouded over and I drained my house batteries into my car.

Some more Home automation to do for your there ????

 

If Solar_Panels_Produce < 500W

then

stop charging car

end if

 

How much kWh would it take for your car to go from 0 - 100%?

 

30 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Currently I can’t feed power back from my car batteries into the house batteries. My next EV will have V2L and will be able to.

I remember you already made a video about that principle, one massive battery right there and if you don't drive it can power your house and you can charge it via Solar!

 

ooh I have an idea

 

This is me talking to the SWMBO

 

Darling lets get an EV with V2L so we don't have to buy batteries