Acting PM Prawit wants ‘tangible’ solution to planned promotion for household solar panels ‘soon’

[webfact]

 

By Erich Parpart

Acting Prime Minister General Prawit Wongsuwan has once again instructed related agencies to come up with measures to encourage and help people to install a solar rooftop system at their houses to tackle rising energy prices.

 

Gen. Prawit asked about updates on the project at the Energy Policy and Planning Office’s meeting on September 9.

 

At the Cabinet meeting week, he instructed the Interior Ministry, the Energy Ministry, the Metropolitan Electricity Authority (MEA) and the Provincial Electricity Authority (PEA) at the Cabinet meeting to come up with tangible measures soon.

 

Full story: https://www.thaienquirer.com/44714/acting-pm-prawit-wants-tangible-solution-to-planned-promotion-for-household-solar-panels-soon/  

 

-- © Copyright Thai Enquirer 2022-09-28

 

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[BritManToo]

Most of the blocks are caused by the MEA/PEA. Force them to allow home Owners to produce their own electricity without the excessive paperwork and 2 year (or longer) delays in granting permission. 

[ezzra]

"Want"  and doable are too different things, and who suppose to pay for those expensive solar panels i wonder?...

[khunPer]

Calculated on a circa 85,000 baht 1,5 kW system, it seems to be about 8 years payback period - without interest and maintenance - if all electricity is used at a 5 baht rate and the system is in total 50 percent effective of it's rated capacity during all year round daylight time; or around 12 years if generated electricity is sold for 2.60 baht per unit (kWh)...????

[BritManToo]

42 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Calculated on a circa 85,000 baht 1,5 kW system, it seems to be about 8 years payback period - without interest and maintenance - if all electricity is used at a 5 baht rate and the system is in total 50 percent effective of it's rated capacity during all year round daylight time; or around 12 years if generated electricity is sold for 2.60 baht per unit (kWh)...????

Your calculations are wrong,

340w panels are 3,500bht (Bluetech), a 1kW grid tie inverter is 3,000bht (can take 3 panels).

 

So for a cost of 13,000bht you can generate 3-4 units a day using the grid as your storage.

At 5bht a unit payback is (13000/17.5= 750 days) 2.5 years.

 

Obviously the MEA/PEA don't want you to do this so throw all sorts of pointless blockades in your way.

 

The PEA/MEA up your costs by requiring an approved installer (add 50-100kbht), approved equipment (add 30kbht), and a ton of paperwork (add 2+ years to your installation time)

 

If Prawitt is serious all he needs to do is allow homeowners to install their own equipment and feedback to the grid without any approval or control from the existing power companies.

It'll never happen!

Edited September 28, 2022 by BritManToo

[khunPer]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Your calculations are wrong,

340w panels are 3,500bht (Bluetech), a 1kW grid tie inverter is 3,000bht (can take 3 panels).

 

So for a cost of 13,000bht you can generate 3-4 units a day using the grid as your storage.

At 5bht a unit payback is (13000/17.5= 750 days) 2.5 years.

 

Obviously the MEA/PEA don't want you to do this so throw all sorts of pointless blockades in your way.

 

The PEA/MEA up your costs by requiring an approved installer (add 50-100kbht), approved equipment (add 30kbht), and a ton of paperwork (add 2+ years to your installation time)

 

If Prawitt is serious all he needs to do is allow homeowners to install their own equipment and feedback to the grid without any approval from the existing power companies.

It'll never happen!

I'm not wrong, I'm referring to the costs mentioned in the article...

 

A quick glance at the prices of solar rooftop system installation in Thailand started from:

• 83,500-85,000 Baht for a 1.5 kW system which would be enough to power 5 LED lightbulbs, a refrigerator, a television and an air conditioner

Your 3-4 units a day for 1 kW fits nicely with my calculation of efficiency...????

 

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, khunPer said:

I'm not wrong, I'm referring to the costs mentioned in the article...

 

A quick glance at the prices of solar rooftop system installation in Thailand started from:

• 83,500-85,000 Baht for a 1.5 kW system which would be enough to power 5 LED lightbulbs, a refrigerator, a television and an air conditioner

Your 3-4 units a day for 1 kW fits nicely with my calculation of efficiency...????

 

That would be the prices for an installation with an approved installer and approved equipment. Which is why hardly any Thais bother as the 'kickbacks' increase the install price by x5. 

 

Prawitt says he wants to make it cheaper and easier.

I'd say removing the corporate greed and corruption would be the way to do that.

Edited September 28, 2022 by BritManToo

[JBThai]

In 2017 I installed my off-grid system and upgraded it every year a little. 3 years ago, I went off-grid 24/7. I recently calculated the investment, and it will take around 8 Years to get the money back in my case. However, I would like to remind you that a solar system's lifetime is 25-30 years. The money invested will be nearly tripled over the lifetime. No bank account offers this! In addition, for the last 2 years, I have charged my EV Car on the system, which makes additional savings until today, around 240000THB. (The calculation does not consider the recent increase in energy prices, maybe I have already returned my investment)

 

And by the way, I had no problem with PEA as it is an off-grid system. The only thing I had to do was one 3-watt light bulb running on the PEA meter to avoid the guy reading the meter reading the same or less than the month before. ????

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Your calculations are wrong,

340w panels are 3,500bht (Bluetech), a 1kW grid tie inverter is 3,000bht (can take 3 panels).

 

So for a cost of 13,000bht you can generate 3-4 units a day using the grid as your storage.

At 5bht a unit payback is (13000/17.5= 750 days) 2.5 years.

 

Obviously the MEA/PEA don't want you to do this so throw all sorts of pointless blockades in your way.

 

The PEA/MEA up your costs by requiring an approved installer (add 50-100kbht), approved equipment (add 30kbht), and a ton of paperwork (add 2+ years to your installation time)

 

If Prawitt is serious all he needs to do is allow homeowners to install their own equipment and feedback to the grid without any approval or control from the existing power companies.

It'll never happen!

The paperwork needs to be reduced and sped up, the feed-in tariff needs to be increased.

 

But getting rid of the requirement to use approved equipment and a professional electrician is a terrible idea. Using the absolute cheapest chinese stuff one can find on Lazada is a recipe for dead people if everything is connected to the grid. There are certain safety requirements that are there for very good reasons. And the approved equipment is still pretty cheap. Payback in more or less 5 years is reasonable enough.

 

For a good quality panel calculate about 10 Baht per Watt. A 3.3kW inverter can be had for 12k THB that is 3.6 Baht per Watt. Installation, mounting etc can probably be had for 30k or less. So now we have a 3.3kW system for something like 45-50k THB.

 

For the cost of less than a Honda Click we could have a quality system that easily covers the energy needs of most households.

Edited September 28, 2022 by eisfeld

[superal]

53 minutes ago, JBThai said:

In 2017 I installed my off-grid system and upgraded it every year a little. 3 years ago, I went off-grid 24/7. I recently calculated the investment, and it will take around 8 Years to get the money back in my case. However, I would like to remind you that a solar system's lifetime is 25-30 years. The money invested will be nearly tripled over the lifetime. No bank account offers this! In addition, for the last 2 years, I have charged my EV Car on the system, which makes additional savings until today, around 240000THB. (The calculation does not consider the recent increase in energy prices, maybe I have already returned my investment)

 

And by the way, I had no problem with PEA as it is an off-grid system. The only thing I had to do was one 3-watt light bulb running on the PEA meter to avoid the guy reading the meter reading the same or less than the month before. ????

Do you have battery storage for the evenings ? Can you run an air-con from your system ? What was the total outlay for your solar system ? Did you install it yourself ?  Solar energy make sense in a country like Thailand where there is plenty of sun . Sorry for all the questions but the concept makes dividends over time  which is appealing .  

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Your calculations are wrong,

340w panels are 3,500bht (Bluetech), a 1kW grid tie inverter is 3,000bht (can take 3 panels).

 

So for a cost of 13,000bht you can generate 3-4 units a day using the grid as your storage.

At 5bht a unit payback is (13000/17.5= 750 days) 2.5 years.

 

Obviously the MEA/PEA don't want you to do this so throw all sorts of pointless blockades in your way.

 

The PEA/MEA up your costs by requiring an approved installer (add 50-100kbht), approved equipment (add 30kbht), and a ton of paperwork (add 2+ years to your installation time)

 

If Prawitt is serious all he needs to do is allow homeowners to install their own equipment and feedback to the grid without any approval or control from the existing power companies.

It'll never happen!

This guy just likes to throw things at the wall, and see if they stick. I don't think anyone pays attention to him. He is a sort of figurehead, without respect or honor. 

 

If he was serious, he would ask the agencies BritManToo speaks of, to simplify things for homeowners. However, that would represent progressive policy. 

[Mavideol]

did I miss the outcome of the ruling about Prayut suspension and/or removal, any updates 555

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

But getting rid of the requirement to use approved equipment and a professional electrician is a terrible idea. Using the absolute cheapest chinese stuff one can find on Lazada is a recipe for dead people if everything is connected to the grid. There are certain safety requirements that are there for very good reasons. And the approved equipment is still pretty cheap. Payback in more or less 5 years is reasonable enough.

 

Agree 1000%, they need to permit "DIY" installations with approved kit.

 

Inspect for safety to the same level as they inspect new home installations

 

[Crossy]

16 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

did I miss the outcome of the ruling about Prayut suspension and/or removal, any updates 555

 

I think it's due on Friday.

 

Anyway, back on topic ...

[Crossy]

The number one safety requirement is to prevent back-feeding into a dead grid (not to be confused with exporting to a live grid) a function known as island-protection.

 

Every approved inverter implements this by default!

 

They are happy to permit every man and his dog to hook up gensets (which generally have no back-feed protection and need a transfer switch) with zero regulation or inspection.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

But getting rid of the requirement to use approved equipment and a professional electrician is a terrible idea. Using the absolute cheapest chinese stuff one can find on Lazada is a recipe for dead people if everything is connected to the grid.

My first 2 GTIs (Suoer DB600 and DB1000) were the cheapest available Chinese products.

Completely safe, if there was no grid supply they didn't work.

I've never found any GTI that would work without a working grid supply.

 

As for needing a professional electrician, they came with a 3 pin plug to put in any nearby socket, same as every other available electrical device. Do you really believe all electrical equipment needs a professional electrician to put the plug in the socket?

 

Please link to one that is dangerous for sale on Lazada or admit you're posting misinformation.

[Cake Monster]

Its all well and good for Prawit to beat a drum for Solar Energy, but the Government need to start showing some initiative of their own, instead of the population having to foot the bill for expensive Energy solutions.

A really good start would be to resurrect the Power Stations that were built for burning Household waste and then allowed to fall into disrepair, making them obsolete now.

Thailand, as usual, are well behind the curve on anything to do with the Environment and alternative energy sources.

Now is the time to really get on board, or forever be a Third World Country with high Energy costs which will decimate the Industrial Sector and Exports.

 

 

[007 RED]

I have a small scale solar system installed on my car port roof.  It comprises 4 x 415W half cut mono panels linked to a 2.2kW PEA approved grid tied inverter.  This was a DIY installed project, so no labour costs involved just my time and effort. Total hardware cost was 28,000 THB. 

 

 

 

The system has been running for almost a year now and during this time it has produced 2,555 units, effectively reducing my pre-installation monthly electricity bills by 75%.  This represents a saving of 10,731 THB (based upon 4.2 THB per unit which was the price I paid prior to the system’s installation). 

 

Hence my ROI should be in the order of (28,000 / 10,731) = 2.6 years.  Obviously if the price per unit rises, the payback time will be shorter ????.

 

If I had a company to do the installation, then the labour costs would be in the order of 100,000 THB, and that's without getting approval from my local PEA.  If I wanted a PEA 'approved installer’ to install and obtain certification, then the cost would soar to 200,000 plus THB.  In both cases the cost of the hardware would be extra and no doubt considerably more than the 28,000 THB that I paid.

 

As you will see, there is a tremendous difference between the cost of my DIY install and that of a PEA 'approved' installation.  Unfortunately, the bureaucracy* and cost of obtaining approval for a system, is no incentive whatsoever for most people here in Thailand to go solar.

 

Unfortunately there is no way that Somchai, on a basic minimum wage, is going to be able to afford the initial capital outlay for a simple system which could meet their basic electric needs.

 

*We Brits invented bureaucracy, Thais have just perfected it.

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by 007 RED

[djayz]

I've never understood why every building in these sunny countries haven't already been installed with solar panels. Years overdue if you ask me. Clean, renewable energy 365 days a year, year after year after year. 

[eisfeld]

51 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My first 2 GTIs (Suoer DB600 and DB1000) were the cheapest available Chinese products.

Completely safe, if there was no grid supply they didn't work.

I've never found any GTI that would work without a working grid supply.

 

As for needing a professional electrician, they came with a 3 pin plug to put in any nearby socket, same as every other available electrical device. Do you really believe all electrical equipment needs a professional electrician to put the plug in the socket?

 

Please link to one that is dangerous for sale on Lazada or admit you're posting misinformation.

How do you know they are completely safe? Just because they didn't burn down your house so far doesn't mean they are OK. And even if your specific ones are engineered well doesn't mean a random other one on Lazada is. The requirements for approval were not thought of because the agencies have so much fun doing that. They are there for very good reasons. A lot of other electrical equipment has to also follow TIS regulations.

 

A professional electrician is not there to just plug things in. You are being disingenuous. We are talking about setting up a solar system. More is needed than ordering some stuff on Lazada and plugging it in. How about making sure there's no fire hazard? What about proper grounding? What about safety equipment like RCBs?

 

As for your last suggestion: what exactly is misinformation? I didn't claim something on Lazada *is* dangerous, I said requirements for using approved equipment is the right thing to do. Maybe the el-cheapo stuff is fine. That's the issue though, nobody did proper testing so you can't claim it's safe. Who knows. But getting rid of all the requirements and turning it into a electrical free for all is pretty much guaranteed to cause someones life or at least burn down a few places.

 

And there's really zero reason to go to these extremes. If the paperwork is easy and fast and clear rules set out then there'll be cheap enough solutions and adoption could be extremely wide-spread. No reason to sacrifice safety for a few more Baht.

[eisfeld]

22 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

I have a small scale solar system installed on my car port roof.  It comprises 4 x 415W half cut mono panels linked to a 2.2kW PEA approved grid tied inverter.  This was a DIY installed project, so no labour costs involved just my time and effort. Total hardware cost was 28,000 THB. 

 

 

 

The system has been running for almost a year now and during this time it has produced 2,555 units, effectively reducing my pre-installation monthly electricity bills by 75%.  This represents a saving of 10,731 THB (based upon 4.2 THB per unit which was the price I paid prior to the system’s installation). 

 

Hence my ROI should be in the order of (28,000 / 10,731) = 2.6 years.  Obviously if the price per unit rises, the payback time will be shorter ????.

 

If I had a company to do the installation, then the labour costs would be in the order of 100,000 THB, and that's without getting approval from my local PEA.  If I wanted a PEA 'approved installer’ to install and obtain certification, then the cost would soar to 200,000 plus THB.  In both cases the cost of the hardware would be extra and no doubt considerably more than the 28,000 THB that I paid.

 

As you will see, there is a tremendous difference between the cost of my DIY install and that of a PEA 'approved' installation.  Unfortunately, the bureaucracy* and cost of obtaining approval for a system, is no incentive whatsoever for most people here in Thailand to go solar.

 

Unfortunately there is no way that Somchai, on a basic minimum wage, is going to be able to afford the initial capital outlay for a simple system which could meet their basic electric needs.

 

*We Brits invented bureaucracy, Thais have just perfected it.

 

Well done, looks like a good setup. and you hit the nail on the head! The approval, paperwork is and unreasonably high install costs are the main issue. If that part was easier then there'd be zero reason the costs for installation would be so high. It's a one day job for 3 guys which costs let's be generous 5k including travel costs etc. Make it 10k for some profit. People would jump on a deal like that. But not if install costs 50k+ and is a months long headache.

[vandeventer]

Electric in Thailand is very cheap, does China have a huge amount of stock that they want Thailand to buy? Most Thai people can barely pay their electric bill now, without going to the bank for a loan for the solar panels.

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

The requirements for approval were not thought of because the agencies have so much fun doing that. They are there for very good reasons. A lot of other electrical equipment has to also follow TIS regulations.

Yet almost every other electricity pole has bare live wires near its base. 

[scorecard]

My Thai son is very interested in solar power and is doing a lot of reading.

 

Just one of his worries is a 'process' to install the panels* on his black concrete tiled roof (probably over most of the roof) without causing a lot of leaks in the roof when it rains.

(*realising that this probably means installing a framework then the panels onto the framework).

 

He's also trying to find information about temperature reduction in the ceiling cavity when most of the roof is covered in panels. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by scorecard

[zzaa09]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Your calculations are wrong,

340w panels are 3,500bht (Bluetech), a 1kW grid tie inverter is 3,000bht (can take 3 panels).

 

So for a cost of 13,000bht you can generate 3-4 units a day using the grid as your storage.

At 5bht a unit payback is (13000/17.5= 750 days) 2.5 years.

 

Obviously the MEA/PEA don't want you to do this so throw all sorts of pointless blockades in your way.

 

The PEA/MEA up your costs by requiring an approved installer (add 50-100kbht), approved equipment (add 30kbht), and a ton of paperwork (add 2+ years to your installation time)

 

If Prawitt is serious all he needs to do is allow homeowners to install their own equipment and feedback to the grid without any approval or control from the existing power companies.

It'll never happen!

Therefore, contradicting the base purpose of pursuing independent and self-sufficient solar energy. 

The controlling plutocracies will always demand their unethical share.

Why do folks bother.

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Yet almost every other electricity pole has bare live wires near its base. 

Yea it's pretty bad. Let's not make it worse though ????

 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

My Thai son is very interested in solar power and is doing a lot of reading.

 

Just one of his worries is a 'process' to install the panels* on his black concrete tiled roof (probably over most of the roof) without causing a lot of leaks in the roof when it rains.

(*realising that this probably means installing a framework then the panels onto the framework).

 

He's also trying to find information about temperature reduction in the ceiling cavity when most of the roof is covered in panels. 

Black concrete tiled roof? I hope not ???? That must be a heat disaster. It depends on the exact roof setup but normally there'll be a metal mounting structure connected under the tiles. Worrying about leaks is very smart as that can indeed happen if some random dude installs the stuff without much knowledge and drills through the tiles or whatever. Best to get a professional to do it.

The solar panels will indeed reduce the heat on the roof. Can't tell you how much though. It'll be a few degrees I'm sure. It's comparable to having some shading as the panels don't transfer too much of the heat through to the roof due to the air space between them and the tiles where air can flow through.

Edited September 28, 2022 by eisfeld

[Eleftheros]

I've been shilly-shallying about this for 10 years already. I love the idea of solar, and benefited hugely from a small installation in my house in Australia, but in Thailand, it seems more problematic.

 

I have ample roof space here, and even a quite high electric bill, what with air conditioning and pool pumps, but have never managed to make the mathematics work.

 

That is, I've always thought that about 250K of solar could save me 3K per month, declining over time as the panels deteriorate, which doesn't add up unless I can sell the excess back to the grid, which involves masses of paperwork.

 

Are my figures way off?

 

 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Eleftheros
Zpelling

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

Acting Prime Minister General Prawit Wongsuwan has once again instructed related agencies to come up with measures to encourage and help people to install a solar rooftop system at their houses to tackle rising energy prices.

What about the bamboo shacks with a tin roof... 

seems he doesn't get out to the poorer end of towns on his jaunts around the country.

[hotchilli]

12 hours ago, Mavideol said:

did I miss the outcome of the ruling about Prayut suspension and/or removal, any updates 555

Outcome decision/report due on Friday 30th

[superal]

15 hours ago, 007 RED said:

I have a small scale solar system installed on my car port roof.  It comprises 4 x 415W half cut mono panels linked to a 2.2kW PEA approved grid tied inverter.  This was a DIY installed project, so no labour costs involved just my time and effort. Total hardware cost was 28,000 THB. 

 

 

 

The system has been running for almost a year now and during this time it has produced 2,555 units, effectively reducing my pre-installation monthly electricity bills by 75%.  This represents a saving of 10,731 THB (based upon 4.2 THB per unit which was the price I paid prior to the system’s installation). 

 

Hence my ROI should be in the order of (28,000 / 10,731) = 2.6 years.  Obviously if the price per unit rises, the payback time will be shorter ????.

 

If I had a company to do the installation, then the labour costs would be in the order of 100,000 THB, and that's without getting approval from my local PEA.  If I wanted a PEA 'approved installer’ to install and obtain certification, then the cost would soar to 200,000 plus THB.  In both cases the cost of the hardware would be extra and no doubt considerably more than the 28,000 THB that I paid.

 

As you will see, there is a tremendous difference between the cost of my DIY install and that of a PEA 'approved' installation.  Unfortunately, the bureaucracy* and cost of obtaining approval for a system, is no incentive whatsoever for most people here in Thailand to go solar.

 

Unfortunately there is no way that Somchai, on a basic minimum wage, is going to be able to afford the initial capital outlay for a simple system which could meet their basic electric needs.

 

*We Brits invented bureaucracy, Thais have just perfected it.

 

Looks like a professional installation . Are you an electrician ? Also what appliances can your solar system run and do you have storage batteries for night time use ?