Nord Stream leaks: Sabotage to blame, says EU

[internationalism]

looks, like there is a whistleblower within the US intelligence, who passed info to an american investigative journalist:

 

"The bombing of the Nord Stream underwater gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea was a covert operation ordered by the White House and carried out by the CIA, a report by a veteran investigative journalist claims.

Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, has claimed that US deep-sea divers, using a Nato military exercise as a cover, planted mines along the pipelines that were later detonated remotely. ...

He says that Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of top-secret planning within the American national security community. “For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible,” Hersh has written."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-bombed-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-claims-investigative-journalist-seymour-hersh-s730dnnfz

 

full article was published yesterday on

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/

Edited February 9, 2023 by internationalism

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, internationalism said:

looks, like there is a whistleblower within the US intelligence, who passed info to an american investigative journalist:

 

"The bombing of the Nord Stream underwater gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea was a covert operation ordered by the White House and carried out by the CIA, a report by a veteran investigative journalist claims.

Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter, has claimed that US deep-sea divers, using a Nato military exercise as a cover, planted mines along the pipelines that were later detonated remotely. ...

He says that Biden’s decision to sabotage the pipelines came after more than nine months of top-secret planning within the American national security community. “For much of that time, the issue was not whether to do the mission, but how to get it done with no overt clue as to who was responsible,” Hersh has written."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-bombed-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-claims-investigative-journalist-seymour-hersh-s730dnnfz

 

full article was published yesterday on

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/

"Critics have accused Hersh of being a conspiracy theorist. He has been criticised for contradicting the official account of the killing of Osama Bin Laden and for questioning the claim that the Syrian government used chemical weapons on Syrian civilians.^[39][26] In 2015, Vox's Max Fisher wrote that "Hersh has appeared increasingly to have gone off the rails. His stories, often alleging vast and shadowy conspiracies, have made startling — and often internally inconsistent — accusations, based on little or no proof beyond a handful of anonymous "officials".^{[6] "}      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

 

I'll wait and see if this story stands up to scrutiny.

[internationalism]

a credible military news agency, bulgaria, with comment about hush up in europe political circles as well as an international press.

It looks as they believe this story.

"Hersh believes that the key issue during the months-long discussions between Biden and his aides about sabotage was the concealment of possible evidence of sabotage. Naturally, now the US administration and the Central Intelligence Agency [CIA] deny that they were involved in blowing up gas pipelines.

Interestingly, soon after the sabotage, the discussion of the Nord Stream explosions disappeared from the agenda of interaction between Western leaders, and the number of discussions on this issue in the US and European media space also sharply decreased."

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/02/08/us-navy-planted-explosions-under-nord-stream-seymour-hersh/

[internationalism]

Under Secretary Nuland Comments on Nord Stream 2 on 27.01.2022 (that was before Biden himself threaten to take out nord stream "one way or another")

 

"@UnderSecStateP

Victoria Nuland: “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.”

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by internationalism

[internationalism]

Ned Price, also 27.01.2022

"U.S. State Department spokesperson Ned Price said on Wednesday the Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Russia and Germany will not move forward if Russia invades Ukraine.

"I want to be very clear: if Russia invades Ukraine one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward," Price told NPR. "I'm not going to get into the specifics. We will work with Germany to ensure it does not move forward."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-2-will-not-move-forward-if-russia-invades-ukraine-state-dept-2022-01-27/

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, internationalism said:

Ned Price, also 27.01.2022

"U.S. State Department spokesperson Ned Price said on Wednesday the Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Russia and Germany will not move forward if Russia invades Ukraine.

"I want to be very clear: if Russia invades Ukraine one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward," Price told NPR. "I'm not going to get into the specifics. We will work with Germany to ensure it does not move forward."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-2-will-not-move-forward-if-russia-invades-ukraine-state-dept-2022-01-27/

not move forward = blowing up? 

You get hold of the terrorist version of Webster's Dictionary?

[AndyFoxy]

United States committing international terrorism. What a surprise.

[AndyFoxy]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

"Critics have accused Hersh of being a conspiracy theorist. He has been criticised for contradicting the official account of the killing of Osama Bin Laden and for questioning the claim that the Syrian government used chemical weapons on Syrian civilians.^[39][26] In 2015, Vox's Max Fisher wrote that "Hersh has appeared increasingly to have gone off the rails. His stories, often alleging vast and shadowy conspiracies, have made startling — and often internally inconsistent — accusations, based on little or no proof beyond a handful of anonymous "officials".^{[6] "}      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh

 

I'll wait and see if this story stands up to scrutiny.

Of course they try and discredit him. How dare he seek the truth.

[internationalism]

On 11/21/2022 at 8:35 AM, placeholder said:

No suits were brought because still only a short time had elapsed. So Russia at least had semi-plausible reasons.  But had it gone on much longer, the excuses would have seen as transparently fake.

so more time have elapsed. No law suits against gazprom.

Who done it?

Who benefited?

 

That is from 27.01.2023, just 2 weeks ago:

 

"US Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland has expressed joy over the destruction of Russia’s Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. She also argued that, even if the US had sanctioned the infrastructure weeks before the Ukraine conflict broke out, this would not have prevented hostilities.

During a Senate hearing on Thursday, Nuland was asked by Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) whether his legislation aimed at sanctioning the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, which was voted down in January 2022, could have stopped the conflict before it began.

 

https://thepressunited.com/updates/top-us-official-hails-nord-stream-2-blast/

Edited February 10, 2023 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy.

[placeholder]

On 2/9/2023 at 11:53 AM, internationalism said:

so more time have elapsed. No law suits against gazprom.

Who done it?

Who benefited?

 

That is from 27.01.2023, just 2 weeks ago:

 

"US Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland has expressed joy over the destruction of Russia’s Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. She also argued that, even if the US had sanctioned the infrastructure weeks before the Ukraine conflict broke out, this would not have prevented hostilities.

During a Senate hearing on Thursday, Nuland was asked by Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) whether his legislation aimed at sanctioning the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, which was voted down in January 2022, could have stopped the conflict before it began.

 

https://thepressunited.com/updates/top-us-official-hails-nord-stream-2-blast/

Well, Gazprom for one benefited. Before they were claiming all sorts of dubious reasons why their shipments of gas were being curtailed. That could have left them liable for huge damages in a lawsuit. But if the pipelines were blown up, Gazprom could claim "force majeure". In other words, the reason they weren't shipping gas was because it was outside their control and therefore they weren't legally liable.

[internationalism]

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, Gazprom for one benefited. Before they were claiming all sorts of dubious reasons why their shipments of gas were being curtailed. That could have left them liable for huge damages in a lawsuit. But if the pipelines were blown up, Gazprom could claim "force majeure". In other words, the reason they weren't shipping gas was because it was outside their control and therefore they weren't legally liable.

yes, but you were talking about law suits for cut supplies yet before nord stream was blown up. Since november, when you wrote it, another 2.5 months have passed. Still no law suits. Not likely they will be coming later on.

 

gazprom has lost e11bln investment as well as e1.6bln which escaped through blown pipes.

that is far more for what they might lose from compensations for broken contracts.

 

so who done it?  

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by internationalism

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, internationalism said:

yes, but you were talking about law suits for cut supplies yet before nord stream was blown up. Since november, when you wrote it, another 2.5 months have passed. Still no law suits. Not likely they will be coming later on.

 

so who done it?

 

Because the obstructions weren't long enough for it to be definitively established that's what Gazprom was up to. And now that the pipelines are blown up, it never will be. And even if malfeasance could be established, the amount of damages could only be limited to the period before the explosion.

[SunnyinBangrak]

1 hour ago, AndyFoxy said:

United States committing international terrorism. What a surprise.

Yeah, real surprise isn't it. I literally can't think of any of what the left called "conspiracy theories" in the last few years that haven't been proven true. And who would trust a word they say now? 

[John Drake]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

In 2015, Vox's Max Fisher wrote that "Hersh has appeared increasingly to have gone off the rails. His stories, often alleging vast and shadowy conspiracies, have made startling — and often internally inconsistent — accusations, based on little or no proof beyond a handful of anonymous "officials".^{[6] "} 

This is funny. Because it was only a couple of days ago that all those stories about balloons spying on the US during the Trump administration were being spilled all over this forum and they were sourced by a single anonymous official.

 

I'm all for sabotaging, sanctioning, isolating, and confronting Russia/China. But to see the news media act as little more than an appendage to a particular political ideology and outlook is not only disturbing, it will eventually undermine and discredit the existing system of news gathering and trust.

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Yeah, real surprise isn't it. I literally can't think of any of what the left called "conspiracy theories" in the last few years that haven't been proven true. And who would trust a word they say now? 

Not surprised you're a QAnon believer. I'd linger longer and point out how many of those conspiracy theories have been blown up, but I'm feeling faint and need to drink some children's blood to restore my faculties. Underground pizzeria here I come!

Edited February 9, 2023 by placeholder

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Yeah, real surprise isn't it. I literally can't think of any of what the left called "conspiracy theories" in the last few years that haven't been proven true. And who would trust a word they say now? 

Really?  I eagerly await your proof of lizard people, blood drinking pedophiles, pizza restaurants with child sex dungeons, Jewish space lasers, millions of undocumented votes, etc.

[candide]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

This is funny. Because it was only a couple of days ago that all those stories about balloons spying on the US during the Trump administration were being spilled all over this forum and they were sourced by a single anonymous official.

 

I'm all for sabotaging, sanctioning, isolating, and confronting Russia/China. But to see the news media act as little more than an appendage to a particular political ideology and outlook is not only disturbing, it will eventually undermine and discredit the existing system of news gathering and trust.

I know It's hard to keep updated, but...

"The April 2022 report, titled “People’s Republic of China High-Altitude Balloon,” found a Chinese spy balloon “circumnavigated the globe” in 2019 – while Donald Trump was president – at an altitude of roughly 65,000 feet, and “drifted past Hawaii and across Florida before continuing its journey,” the US Air Force document states."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/military-intelligence-report-china-balloon-trump/index.html

 

[John Drake]

9 minutes ago, candide said:

I know It's hard to keep updated, but...

"The April 2022 report, titled “People’s Republic of China High-Altitude Balloon,” found a Chinese spy balloon “circumnavigated the globe” in 2019 – while Donald Trump was president – at an altitude of roughly 65,000 feet, and “drifted past Hawaii and across Florida before continuing its journey,” the US Air Force document states."

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/military-intelligence-report-china-balloon-trump/index.html

 

It's not about being "updated," it's about the use of a single anonymous source to launch a story. And that is what happened a couple of days ago, here, on this forum, which caused people to react so assuredly. A "single anonymous source" was all they needed then. Here are the pertinent parts of the story linked to in the original topic https://aseannow.com/topic/1285572-revealed-three-chinese-spy-balloons-infiltrated-the-us-during-trump-administration-but-he-never-shot-them-down-or-told-the-public-as-republicans-call-for-biden-to-resign-for-putting-americans-at-risk/

 

Quote

Wednesday President Biden gave his authorization to take down the Chinese surveillance balloon as soon as the mission could be accomplished without undue risk to us civilians under the balloon's path," said a senior defense official speaking on background. . . . [then a few sentences later, referring to that same 'senior defense official speaking on background'] The official said Chinese balloons briefly transited the continental United States at least three times during the prior administration."  https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3288543/f-22-safely-shoots-down-chinese-spy-balloon-off-south-carolina-coast/

That launched a 10 page discussion, all based on a single anonymous source. It used to be in journalism that anonymous sources were only very rarely used (think Watergate). Nowadays, it has become something of a default. Why did this "senior official" need to "speak on background" for this story? It was either an identifiable fact or it wasn't. 

[AndyFoxy]

3 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Yeah, real surprise isn't it. I literally can't think of any of what the left called "conspiracy theories" in the last few years that haven't been proven true. And who would trust a word they say now? 

Exactly mate. 

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, AndyFoxy said:

Exactly mate. 

Another believer in lizard people identifies himself.

[AndyFoxy]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Another believer in lizard people identifies himself.

Stop believing in conspiracy theories Brucie.

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Stop believing in conspiracy theories Brucie.

Identify the conspiracy theories you "Exactly mate." agreed with and what evidence supports them.

[AndyFoxy]

38 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Identify the conspiracy theories you "Exactly mate." agreed with and what evidence supports them.

Identify my support for the belief in lizard people and any associated  evidence.

Edited February 9, 2023 by AndyFoxy

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, AndyFoxy said:

Identify my support for the belief in lizard people and any associated  evidence.

Did you not "like" and "Exactly mate" to the SunnyinBangrak post:

 

"Yeah, real surprise isn't it. I literally can't think of any of what the left called "conspiracy theories" in the last few years that haven't been proven true. And who would trust a word they say now?"

 

What conspiracy theories in the last few years have been proven true?  SunnyinBangrak can't think of any that have not been proven true, and apparently you agree with him.

[Scott]

Please keep the discussion civil. 

 

[bamnutsak]

The Seymour Hersh piece read as too detailed to be falsified, and maybe obfuscation was useful, but I only read it once, with any sort of critical thinking turned off. 

 

I'm concerned about the lack of editorial review, given he published it himself, and the sourcing volume.

 

Obviously he's broken some HUGE stories, My Lai Massacre and the Pentagon Papers spring first to mind. And I read many of his pieces in the New Yorker over the years. But some say he's lost a step, or five.

[internationalism]

Moscow calls for an international investigation. So far there is not such body at all, that despite international terrorism. Each country runs their own and not communicating with others and withholding any public statements. 
They are also refusing to comment on this Biden/CIA allegation. 

All are tight lipped. 
Moscow was also barred from accesing blow sites, to collect any evidence. Probably too late for it now, as its over 4 months. 

 

There are some military news websites, like that bulgarian one, which I linked yesterday, which seems are symphatetic to hershs. 
Probably many more in all different languages. Many are paywalled. So difficult yet to know how governments might be reacting. 

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2023/02/09/hershs-bombshell-on-nord-stream-pipeline-ignored-by-mainstream-media/
 

Edited February 10, 2023 by internationalism

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Did you not "like" and "Exactly mate" to the SunnyinBangrak post:

 

"Yeah, real surprise isn't it. I literally can't think of any of what the left called "conspiracy theories" in the last few years that haven't been proven true. And who would trust a word they say now?"

 

What conspiracy theories in the last few years have been proven true?  SunnyinBangrak can't think of any that have not been proven true, and apparently you agree with him.

Nailed him.

[AndyFoxy]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Did you not "like" and "Exactly mate" to the SunnyinBangrak post:

 

"Yeah, real surprise isn't it. I literally can't think of any of what the left called "conspiracy theories" in the last few years that haven't been proven true. And who would trust a word they say now?"

 

What conspiracy theories in the last few years have been proven true?  SunnyinBangrak can't think of any that have not been proven true, and apparently you agree with him.

I'm waiting for the evidence of my belief in the lizard man. Whoever that is.

Now I'm guessing you don't have any. So you really need to stop staying stuff if you can't back it up with any evidence.

Edited February 10, 2023 by AndyFoxy

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

I'm waiting for the evidence of my belief in the lizard man. Whoever that is.

Now I'm guessing you don't have any. So you really need to stop staying stuff if you can't back it up with any evidence.

I have evidence from your post that you agreed with SunnyinBangrak that all of "what the left" called conspiracy theories have been proven to be true.  I'm still waiting for evidence of that from you or Sunny.

 

Lizard people, blood drinking pedophiles, child sex slaves in pizza restaurant basements, millions of illegal votes, etc., these are all claims from the right and the Qanon idiots that "the left" calls conspiracy theories.  None have been shown correct, most would be funny if it weren't scary that so many fools believe them.

Edited February 10, 2023 by heybruce