Britain is Broken !

[RayC]

17 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There was a whole lot more to Brexit than just the economy . 

People didn't vote on the sole basis of what would make the UK richer and be better for the economy .

    There were a whole lot of other aspects involved 

A whole lot more? The only two other factors that I can think of are 1) sovereignty and 2) immigration/ freedom of movement. If I have missed any other factors then please list them.

 

Imo the concept of sovereignty is basically a myth unless you wish to live in a closed society, such as North Korea, or a dictatorship such as China. Leaving the EU has given the UK little in the way of increased sovereignty (see my reply to @Kwasaki). Moreover, how 'sovereign' can a medium-sized economy, such as the UK, be in a globalised world? As we have just witnessed, the UK government and BoE was forced to reverse recent policy decisions by the markets.

 

Wrt to immigration/ freedom of movement. Well, I guess that this simply comes down to one's attitude to individuals of other nationalities/ races. Having grown up in Brixton, and spent most of my life either living and working as an immigrant myself and/or living and working along side immigrants/ individuals of a different race, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me where they might come from or what is their skin colour; we either get along or we don't. If someone feels superior to/ threatened by individuals from another nation/ race, then I think that they are wrong. Moreover, I certainly don't think governments should be making policy to appease such individuals.

 

So for me, Brexit is all about the economy. As I repeat ad nauseum, there is little, if any, evidence to suggest that Brexit has had - or will have - a positive economic impact and a wealth of evidence to suggest that the opposite is true.

[RayC]

55 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, if the U.K wanted to make a new legislation , we would need  rest of the E.Us agreement before we could proceed , we couldn't make our own legislations .

 

Completely untrue.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/how-much-legislation-comes-from-europe/

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

A whole lot more? The only two other factors that I can think of are 1) sovereignty and 2) immigration/ freedom of movement. If I have missed any other factors then please list them.

 

Imo the concept of sovereignty is basically a myth unless you wish to live in a closed society, such as North Korea, or a dictatorship such as China. Leaving the EU has given the UK little in the way of increased sovereignty (see my reply to @Kwasaki). Moreover, how 'sovereign' can a medium-sized economy, such as the UK, be in a globalised world? As we have just witnessed, the UK government and BoE was forced to reverse recent policy decisions by the markets.

 

Wrt to immigration/ freedom of movement. Well, I guess that this simply comes down to one's attitude to individuals of other nationalities/ races. Having grown up in Brixton, and spent most of my life either living and working as an immigrant myself and/or living and working along side immigrants/ individuals of a different race, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me where they might come from or what is their skin colour; we either get along or we don't. If someone feels superior to/ threatened by individuals from another nation/ race, then I think that they are wrong. Moreover, I certainly don't think governments should be making policy to appease such individuals.

 

So for me, Brexit is all about the economy. As I repeat ad nauseum, there is little, if any, evidence to suggest that Brexit has had - or will have - a positive economic impact and a wealth of evidence to suggest that the opposite is true.

Its not immigration that was the issue , it was the number of immigrants and with no control of the amount .

   Six million E.U citizens applied to stay in the U.K post Brexit and add the people who didn't apply and those from other Countries , there would have been about ten million immigrants living in the U.K in a population of about 60 million people .

   Immigration needed to be controlled , rather than having 500 million people potentially  deciding to go and live in the UK .

   Families of six showing up and going straight to the top of the list for council accommodation , schools where the majority of kids couldn't speak English and things like that , even jobs where you were required to speak Polish to get the job and you had to apply for the job in Warsaw

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

The idea that the UK was controlled from Brussels was a myth. The vast majority of legislation originating from the EU was unanimously agreed by all member states. 

I agreed with what you said , and now you have posted a link to show that what you said isn't true ???????

 

 

"Completely untrue.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/how-much-legislation-comes-from-europe/"

[Seppius]

I keep saying, It's not just the UK, they are just ahead of the cycle. The EU is in for a torrid time

 

Economic activity in the eurozone plummeted further in October and Germany, the EU's top economy, looks headed for a recession amid the cost-of-living crisis, new figures show.

The S&P Global Flash Eurozone composite Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI), seen as a good guide to overall economic health, fell to 47.1 this month, down from 48.1 in September, as soaring inflation and high energy prices hit Europe.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11348135/Eurozone-economy-plummets-dragged-Germany-heads-recession.html

 

On top of that, Italy stance is changing

 

Meloni blasted the European Union as an incompetent monster and promised that the "fun" was "over." She said she would represent Italy's interests in the European Union, and insisted that EU law should not stand above national law.

She stopped calling for Italy to abandon the euro and to leave the EU a while back. Nonetheless, her critical stance of the EU could mean that she becomes another thorn in the side of the European Union,

 

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-italys-shift-to-the-right-is-dangerous-for-eu/a-63246405

 

 

 

 

 

[RayC]

12 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I agreed with what you said , and now you have posted a link to show that what you said isn't true ???????

 

 

"Completely untrue.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/how-much-legislation-comes-from-europe/"

You stated: "if the U.K wanted to make a new legislation , we would need  rest of the E.Us agreement before we could proceed , we couldn't make our own legislations."

 

This is completely untrue. The link confirms this.

 

Where and how am I contradicting myself?

[RayC]

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its not immigration that was the issue , it was the number of immigrants and with no control of the amount .

   Six million E.U citizens applied to stay in the U.K post Brexit and add the people who didn't apply and those from other Countries , there would have been about ten million immigrants living in the U.K in a population of about 60 million people .

Why is this a problem?

(Btw the population of the UK is closer to 70 million)

 

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

   Immigration needed to be controlled , rather than having 500 million people potentially  deciding to go and live in the UK .

500 million people were not simply going to turn up in the UK.

 

There is no way of knowing but I suspect that the number of EU nationals in the UK would have remained between 5 -8 million given normal churn.

 

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

   Families of six showing up and going straight to the top of the list for council accommodation,

How big a problem was this in reality? Any figures to support your argument?

 

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

schools where the majority of kids couldn't speak English and things like that ,

My kids couldn't speak French when they arrived in Belgium. They learnt. That's what schools are for.

 

18 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

even jobs where you were required to speak Polish to get the job and you had to apply for the job in Warsaw

Imo individuals should speak the local language and attempt to integrate themselves into their local communities/ environment. However, what's the problem in making Polish a requirement of the job if it involves dealing with the Polish community and makes life easier for them?

 

Anyway, I would be surprised if the overwhelming majority of immigrants from the EU did not speak and understand, at least, basic English when they arrived (although I don't have any data to support this assertion).

[RayC]

30 minutes ago, Seppius said:

I keep saying, It's not just the UK, they are just ahead of the cycle. The EU is in for a torrid time

 

Economic activity in the eurozone plummeted further in October and Germany, the EU's top economy, looks headed for a recession amid the cost-of-living crisis, new figures show.

The S&P Global Flash Eurozone composite Purchasing Managers' Index (PMI), seen as a good guide to overall economic health, fell to 47.1 this month, down from 48.1 in September, as soaring inflation and high energy prices hit Europe.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11348135/Eurozone-economy-plummets-dragged-Germany-heads-recession.html

 

On top of that, Italy stance is changing

 

Meloni blasted the European Union as an incompetent monster and promised that the "fun" was "over." She said she would represent Italy's interests in the European Union, and insisted that EU law should not stand above national law.

She stopped calling for Italy to abandon the euro and to leave the EU a while back. Nonetheless, her critical stance of the EU could mean that she becomes another thorn in the side of the European Union,

 

https://www.dw.com/en/opinion-italys-shift-to-the-right-is-dangerous-for-eu/a-63246405

 

 

 

 

 

There are economic and political problems in the EU just as there are in the UK. However, there is nothing to suggest that the EU is about to collapse.

[Mac Mickmanus]

49 minutes ago, RayC said:

Why is this a problem?

(Btw the population of the UK is closer to 70 million)

 

500 million people were not simply going to turn up in the UK.

 

There is no way of knowing but I suspect that the number of EU nationals in the UK would have remained between 5 -8 million given normal churn.

 

How big a problem was this in reality? Any figures to support your argument?

 

My kids couldn't speak French when they arrived in Belgium. They learnt. That's what schools are for.

 

Imo individuals should speak the local language and attempt to integrate themselves into their local communities/ environment. However, what's the problem in making Polish a requirement of the job if it involves dealing with the Polish community and makes life easier for them?

 

Anyway, I would be surprised if the overwhelming majority of immigrants from the EU did not speak and understand, at least, basic English when they arrived (although I don't have any data to support this assertion).

60 Million without the 8 million Europeans living there .

500 million were not going to turn up, thats why I wrote "potentially"

U.Ks E.U population has been continually growing, no sign of it slowing down .

   I dont know the amount'

Schools arent there to teach Children the basic language of the lessons , kids are expected to know enough to be able to converse

    It rules British people out of certain jobs if there is a requirement to speak Polish whilst working in England 

  

 

 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

60 Million without the 8 million Europeans living there .

500 million were not going to turn up, thats why I wrote "potentially"

U.Ks E.U population has been continually growing, no sign of it slowing down .

A serious of statements without a discernable point.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

  

Schools arent there to teach Children the basic language of the lessons , kids are expected to know enough to be able to converse

The purpose of a school is to impart knowledge.

 

Kids start at different levels and develop at different rates. Some kids need more help than others. Schools are there to teach and to aid the kids'  development.

 

What are you suggesting? Ignore those kids who can't keep up?

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

    It rules British people out of certain jobs if there is a requirement to speak Polish whilst working in England 

  

Maybe those jobs wouldn't exist if there wasn't a Polish community. Maybe there wouldn't be a Polish community if there weren't job vacancies that needed filling.

[Seppius]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

There are economic and political problems in the EU just as there are in the UK. However, there is nothing to suggest that the EU is about to collapse.

Neither the UK, we are all going to get strikes, inflation, hits on the currency and possibly blackouts

 

I have warmed to Rishi I believe him to be very smart, and will bring stability along with integrity to the UK government

[RayC]

28 minutes ago, Seppius said:

Neither the UK, we are all going to get strikes, inflation, hits on the currency and possibly blackouts

Unfortunately true.

28 minutes ago, Seppius said:

 

I have warmed to Rishi I believe him to be very smart, and will bring stability along with integrity to the UK government

Let's hope that you are right. 

 

I doubt that he will be as much of an ideologue as Truss or as big a chancer as Johnson, so that's a start.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Top private schools see their Oxbridge success rate plummet amid diversity drive

 

The Oxbridge success rate of top private schools has dropped by a third in five years amid a drive to boost numbers of disadvantaged students, an investigation by The Telegraph has found.

The impact on private school pupils of targets to increase diversity at the top universities, and an overall rise in numbers of applicants, is laid bare by the findings. 

  Analysis of Oxford and Cambridge offer rates to 50 independent schools with the highest number of applications last year, shows the likelihood of their pupils receiving an offer has dropped from  39 per cent to 26.5 per cent in five years.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/top-private-schools-see-their-oxbridge-success-rate-plummet-amid-diversity-drive/ar-AA13s4Jj?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=e9072c317bf44568a21f48ad9e99039c

[In the jungle]

12 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Top private schools see their Oxbridge success rate plummet amid diversity drive

 

The Oxbridge success rate of top private schools has dropped by a third in five years amid a drive to boost numbers of disadvantaged students, an investigation by The Telegraph has found.

The impact on private school pupils of targets to increase diversity at the top universities, and an overall rise in numbers of applicants, is laid bare by the findings. 

  Analysis of Oxford and Cambridge offer rates to 50 independent schools with the highest number of applications last year, shows the likelihood of their pupils receiving an offer has dropped from  39 per cent to 26.5 per cent in five years.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/top-private-schools-see-their-oxbridge-success-rate-plummet-amid-diversity-drive/ar-AA13s4Jj?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=e9072c317bf44568a21f48ad9e99039c

Are you suggesting that this is a problem?

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, In the jungle said:

Are you suggesting that this is a problem?

Declining educational standards will have a detrimental effect on the U.K

[In the jungle]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Declining educational standards will have a detrimental effect on the U.K

Why do you think it implies declining educational standards?

[Chomper Higgot]

9 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Declining educational standards will have a detrimental effect on the U.K

Where is your evidence that Oxbridge admitting more disadvantaged applicants is a reduction in educational standards?

[Mac Mickmanus]

Local UK Councils have been booking  out whole hotels, four star hotel to house asylum seekers , that has often been denied on here .

Four star hotels in prime locations 

 

 

Local councils take Home Office to High Court for block-booking hotel rooms for asylum seekers

 

Stoke City Council and Great Yarmouth Borough Council are among those seeking emergency injunctions over the use of hotels in their areas. The Local Government Association claims many are not being notified of Home Office plans in advance.

 

Local councils are taking High Court action against the Home Office to stop it booking out hotel rooms for asylum seekers.

The government has been under intense pressure to reduce numbers at Manston immigration processing centre in Kent, where there are reports of overcrowding, diphtheria and MRSA.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/local-councils-take-home-office-to-high-court-for-block-booking-hotel-rooms-for-asylum-seekers-12735520

[Chomper Higgot]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:14 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Local UK Councils have been booking  out whole hotels, four star hotel to house asylum seekers , that has often been denied on here .

Four star hotels in prime locations 

 

 

Local councils take Home Office to High Court for block-booking hotel rooms for asylum seekers

 

Stoke City Council and Great Yarmouth Borough Council are among those seeking emergency injunctions over the use of hotels in their areas. The Local Government Association claims many are not being notified of Home Office plans in advance.

 

Local councils are taking High Court action against the Home Office to stop it booking out hotel rooms for asylum seekers.

The government has been under intense pressure to reduce numbers at Manston immigration processing centre in Kent, where there are reports of overcrowding, diphtheria and MRSA.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/local-councils-take-home-office-to-high-court-for-block-booking-hotel-rooms-for-asylum-seekers-12735520

I suggest taking this up with the people who told you they were going to fix the problem.

 

 

[Slip]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Local UK Councils have been booking  out whole hotels, four star hotel to house asylum seekers , that has often been denied on here .

Four star hotels in prime locations 

 

<snipped for brevity>

Often denied on here?  It's the first I've seen of it.  Can you provide any examples?

 

Meanwhile the local Tory MPs have been steaming in and quashing those deals in short order.  (In their own constituencies at least).

[Chomper Higgot]

Let’s not address the myriad problems  people in the UK are facing, let’s scapegoat migrants.

 

 

[proton]

46 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s not address the myriad problems  people in the UK are facing, let’s scapegoat migrants.

 

 

Illegal immigrants costing us a fortune daily and using over stretched HNS, housing and education.- Not migrants, that word is just used to make these free loading illegals sound more reasonable.

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 hours ago, Slip said:

Often denied on here?  It's the first I've seen of it.  Can you provide any examples?

 

 

It would be against the forum rules for me to reply to your request

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It would be against the forum rules for me to reply to your request

How very convenient.

[BritManToo]

On 10/24/2022 at 9:02 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Schools arent there to teach Children the basic language of the lessons , kids are expected to know enough to be able to converse

My last few years in the UK I had a Portuguese kid in my class (12yo), couldn't speak a word of English. A year later he spoke perfect English with a local accent.

No special lessons.

[Seppius]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:14 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Local UK Councils have been booking  out whole hotels, four star hotel to house asylum seekers , that has often been denied on here .

Four star hotels in prime locations 

 

 

Local councils take Home Office to High Court for block-booking hotel rooms for asylum seekers

 

Stoke City Council and Great Yarmouth Borough Council are among those seeking emergency injunctions over the use of hotels in their areas. The Local Government Association claims many are not being notified of Home Office plans in advance.

 

Local councils are taking High Court action against the Home Office to stop it booking out hotel rooms for asylum seekers.

The government has been under intense pressure to reduce numbers at Manston immigration processing centre in Kent, where there are reports of overcrowding, diphtheria and MRSA.

 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/local-councils-take-home-office-to-high-court-for-block-booking-hotel-rooms-for-asylum-seekers-12735520

Great Yarmouth is Brandon Lewis constituency

[Seppius]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11371989/DOMINIC-LAWSON-Britains-economic-problems-little-Brexit.html

 

But is Mark Carney right about the relative performance of the British and German economies since 2016? No, and that's putting it politely.

 

'Similarly, Carney is choosing a date when the pound was abnormally high against the euro (January 2016), another one when the pound was much lower, and then saying we've underperformed Germany by 20 per cent.

'That's just obvious complete nonsense. If you look at actual annual growth rate in domestic currency, the UK and Germany have grown by quite similar amounts since 2016.'

[Slip]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It would be against the forum rules for me to reply to your request

How so?  Specifically what forum rule would you be breaking to offer evidence for a claim you have made?  Regardless, as you are unable or unwilling to back up your claim it will have to be filed in the rather busy category of 'stuff Mac Mickmanus just made up'.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, Slip said:

How so?  Specifically what forum rule would you be breaking to offer evidence for a claim you have made?  Regardless, as you are unable or unwilling to back up your claim it will have to be filed in the rather busy category of 'stuff Mac Mickmanus just made up'.

That is a false allegation . 

I have never made anything up .

Do stop lying .

The forum which it broke, I am not allowed to comment on that 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, Seppius said:

Great Yarmouth is Brandon Lewis constituency

It really doesn't matter who the constituent is