Aerothai reports shift in takeoff and landing direction at airports due to seasonal winds

[webfact]

 

by Tanakorn Sangiam

    
BANGKOK (NNT) - The arrival of colder air and changes in wind directions have prompted adjustments to the takeoff and landing directions at Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi airports. The winter runway directions will be in effect from this month to February, 2023.

 

Aeronautical Radio of Thailand Ltd. (Aerothai) indicated the general takeoff and landing direction at Don Mueang airport is being reversed. Planes will now take off and land on runways 03 instead of the usual runways 21.

 

The shift is in correspondence to winds now blowing from the northeastern direction at significant velocities of 20-30 kilometers per hour. Aerothai said this is normal for the months of the cold season.

 

People in Bangkok will therefore be able to spot planes descending above the downtown area to land at Don Mueang. This will be the case until February.

 

The change means planes will approach Don Mueang airport from the south and fly over Bangkok’s downtown area. Aerothai would periodically switch back to having planes approach from the north when the speed of northeasterly winds drop to no more than 18 kilometers per hour.

 

The civilian air traffic control authority explained that planes approaching from the airport’s north are able to land safely if winds do not exceed this magnitude.

 

A similar change in the takeoff and landing direction for planes is being implemented at Suvarnabhumi airport. Planes will now approach from the south and take off in the northern direction.

 

A Twitter user has posted images shot from a passenger plane making its approach to the airport from the south. The new landing direction means passengers are able to enjoy a bird’s eye view of downtown Bangkok before landing.

 

In contrast, passengers are generally greeted by overhead views of Pathum Thani when the usual landing direction is in use.

 

Source: https://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news/detail/TCATG221019091543002

 

-- © Copyright NNT 2022-10-19

 

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[KhunBENQ]

18 minutes ago, webfact said:

A similar change in the takeoff and landing direction for planes is being implemented at Suvarnabhumi airport. Planes will now approach from the south and take off in the northern direction.

I hate that extra loop 

A view over the gulf.

Nice but not worth the extra 10 minutes.

 

[Phuketshrew]

Let's hope that someone tells the pilots ....

[ThailandRyan]

So from the opposite direction as Chinese tourist flights will not be coming until late next year  according to a post in the BP...

[William C F Pierce]

Typical Thailand. When the temperature is 15C they say it's freezing, Thus when the wind is 20-30 kph they have a full blown  Hurricane.

Edited October 19, 2022 by William C F Pierce

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, William C F Pierce said:

Typical Thailand. When the temperature is 15C they say it's freezing, Thus when the wind is 20-30 kph they have a full blown  Hurricane.

Does this dumb attempted Thai bash have anything at all to do with seasonal wind variation and adjusting the approach / takeoff direction at both of Bangkok’s Airports ?

 

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by richard_smith237

[Grusa]

In theory, at least, the direction of take off and landing are entirely at the pilots discretion, whatever ATC may think about it. 

If the pilot gets it wrong, = "incident", he is in the <deleted>. Regardless. Always.

[Puccini]

4 hours ago, Grusa said:

In theory, at least, the direction of take off and landing are entirely at the pilots discretion, whatever ATC may think about it. 

If the pilot gets it wrong, = "incident", he is in the <deleted>. Regardless. Always.

Are you sure that "the direction of take off and landing are entirely at the pilots discretion"?

 

I was under the impression that air traffic control (ATC) instructs the pilot of every aircraft which runway to use, whereby the runway number communicated to the pilot is indicative of the direction. ATC does not tell a pilot to land from the North or the South, but gives him a runway number. Every landing strip has two numbers, one for each direction.

 

Or am I wrong?

Edited October 19, 2022 by Puccini

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

I hate that extra loop 

A view over the gulf.

Nice but not worth the extra 10 minutes.

 

Aircraft need a nose wind when landing or taking off... switching the direction is normal practice even on a daily basis depending on wind direction.

A seasonal change is not unheard of.

Tailwinds make things a lot more iffy for the flight crew.

 

[Grusa]

7 hours ago, Puccini said:

Are you sure that "the direction of take off and landing are entirely at the pilots discretion"?

 

I was under the impression that air traffic control (ATC) instructs the pilot of every aircraft which runway to use, whereby the runway number communicated to the pilot is indicative of the direction. ATC does not tell a pilot to land from the North or the South, but gives him a runway number. Every landing strip has two numbers, one for each direction.

 

Or am I wrong?

You are only partly correct. Yes ATC where there is one will instruct which runway to use. The pilot has absolute discretion in whether or not to accept that instruction. If the pilot considers it unsafe he or she can elect to use another, and ATC must (eventually) comply.

The amount of consequent paperwork and general brown stuff that follows is a very strong deterrent, but the pilot in command always has the final say.

Large commercial jets, being fast and heavy, are mostly immune from danger from downwind and crosswind landings, except in really bad conditions. The smaller the aircraft, the less immune to weather conditions, the limits to the ability of the aircraft to cope with such are defined in the POH (pilots operating handbook) of the type.

ATC will base the decision on Runway in Use on the wind direction at the start of the shift. If the wind direction reverses, as it can, they are not so quick to reverse the runway in use, particularly at a busy international airport, as it totally disrupts the traffic patterns. They might continue with a 20knot tailwind...ok for an A380, not such fun for a small commuter jet, and potentially deadly for some light aircraft. If the pilot opts for an opposite landing he may well have to hold for a very long time until a break in traffic permits......unless he declares an emergency, e.g low fuel. Even more paperwork and brown stuff!

[Orinoco]

I fail to see why this is national news.

 

 

 

[rabas]

32 minutes ago, Grusa said:

You are only partly correct. Yes ATC where there is one will instruct which runway to use. The pilot has absolute discretion in whether or not to accept that instruction. If the pilot considers it unsafe he or she can elect to use another, and ATC must (eventually) comply.

The amount of consequent paperwork and general brown stuff that follows is a very strong deterrent, but the pilot in command always has the final say.

Large commercial jets, being fast and heavy, are mostly immune from danger from downwind and crosswind landings, except in really bad conditions. The smaller the aircraft, the less immune to weather conditions, the limits to the ability of the aircraft to cope with such are defined in the POH (pilots operating handbook) of the type.

ATC will base the decision on Runway in Use on the wind direction at the start of the shift. If the wind direction reverses, as it can, they are not so quick to reverse the runway in use, particularly at a busy international airport, as it totally disrupts the traffic patterns. They might continue with a 20knot tailwind...ok for an A380, not such fun for a small commuter jet, and potentially deadly for some light aircraft. If the pilot opts for an opposite landing he may well have to hold for a very long time until a break in traffic permits......unless he declares an emergency, e.g low fuel. Even more paperwork and brown stuff!

Ultimately, the decision must be with the pilot who knows and is responsible for the aircraft. In practice they would work together, one would hope.  Years ago I took a flight from Don Meuang to Singapore. Oddly, there was no cabin service and the seat belt sign remained on. Then halfway, and I mean halfway, the pilot announced that the plane had a hydraulic leak and did not have enough hydraulic fluid to reach Singapore, so we would return to Don Meuang.  He said, halfway.

 

On return, we made a beeline straight to the southern end of the runway and a very straight, steep decent with no maneuvering.  I'm pretty sure we took off to the south so he landed counter to the preferred traffic direction. In such a case, I don't see how ATC can overrule the pilot who knows the plane and situation.

 

[scorecard]

On 10/19/2022 at 9:50 AM, KhunBENQ said:

I hate that extra loop 

A view over the gulf.

Nice but not worth the extra 10 minutes.

 

And boring!

[bangon04]

2 hours ago, Orinoco said:

I fail to see why this is national news.

only in Thailand.....  in most normal countries the airport regularly switches runways to try and ensure that planes land (and take off) into the wind if at all possible.

Edited October 20, 2022 by bangon04

[josephbloggs]

14 minutes ago, bangon04 said:

only in Thailand.....  in most normal countries the airport regularly switches runways to try and ensure that planes land (and take off) into the wind if at all possible.

They switch regularly here too.

[Photoguy21]

Is this really news? More like a filler when there is no news.

[Orinoco]

6 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Is this really news? More like a filler when there is no news.

Think they were expecting more Gob Shi! %%%% from Mr. Thaksin.

But only, one thread this week so far.

So yes, was a quick  fill in, I think 

 

[rabas]

55 minutes ago, bangon04 said:

only in Thailand.....  in most normal countries the airport regularly switches runways to try and ensure that planes land (and take off) into the wind if at all possible.

Here it signals the start of the Thai cold season as winds begin to blow from the north. Big news for Thai because it means much cooler more pleasant weather.  Winter is coming.

[lopburi3]

Quote

Air quality in 12 areas around Bangkok and its vicinity descended to unsafe levels on Thursday morning, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration reported.

https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40021207

[a340bangla1]

12 hours ago, Puccini said:

Are you sure that "the direction of take off and landing are entirely at the pilots discretion"

 

Or am I wrong?

In the end - yes a pilot might refuse a given landing direction if she/he feels it is not safe. It might lead to waiting times and/or diversions though.

 

Edit: Just saw that this has been made clear much more in detail further up.

Edited October 20, 2022 by a340bangla1

[Puccini]

7 hours ago, Grusa said:

You are only partly correct. Yes ATC where there is one will instruct which runway to use...

Thank you for posting your your exhaustive additional information.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, rabas said:

Here it signals the start of the Thai cold season as winds begin to blow from the north. Big news for Thai because it means much cooler more pleasant weather.  Winter is coming.

I expect the newsworthy point is it appears to have come early this year. 

[William C F Pierce]

On 10/19/2022 at 2:34 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Does this dumb attempted Thai bash have anything at all to do with seasonal wind variation and adjusting the approach / takeoff direction at both of Bangkok’s Airports ?

 

 

Clearly you did not understand my comment. In other countries they operate at a much higher extreme levels with weather than Thailand. Before they make changes to a situation. The comparison is not Thai bashing.