Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[Bluespunk]

Hmm… here’s a possible answer 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/14/brexit-a-major-cause-of-uks-return-to-austerity-says-senior-economist?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, dunroaming said:

There are now numerous examples of u-turns about Brexit.  In fact it is hard to find anyone who admits to voting for it.  The boss of Next (a prominent brexiteer) has now come out pleading for the Prime Minister to relax immigration restrictions as he can't fill the vacancies he has.  When asked why, he said that this wasn't the Brexit that he voted for or that was promised to the people.

 

I have no idea why he should be surprised by that.  None of us are!

Now here's a radical idea. Institute policies ( and an education system that actually educates people ) so that British people fill those job vacancies.

Allowing young people to rot on the dole and bringing in overseas workers is a lazy solution and is not going to end well.

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, dunroaming said:

There are now numerous examples of u-turns about Brexit.  In fact it is hard to find anyone who admits to voting for it.  The boss of Next (a prominent brexiteer) has now come out pleading for the Prime Minister to relax immigration restrictions as he can't fill the vacancies he has.  When asked why, he said that this wasn't the Brexit that he voted for or that was promised to the people.

 

I have no idea why he should be surprised by that.  None of us are!

Try harder, there are ,millions of them.

[nauseus]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

That’s not what anyone is saying.

 

What I and others are saying is the Brexiteers made statements during the run up to the referendum that loss of trade privileges with the EU  (the world’s largest free trade market) would be compensated by new trade deals, the jewel of which would be an FTA with the US.

 

Brexiteers are now denying this, despite their anger when, after the vote, Obama told the UK it was at the back of the queue for an FTA.

 

The Brexiteer self delusion of a UK/US FTA being possible continued until a lettuce eventually told the truth.

I'm sensing more than a touch of deja vu here.

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

While the UK Government struggles to reverse the damage done to the UK economy by the UK Government, the pesky French steal the ‘Golden Goose’:

 

Paris has just past London as the largest European stock exchange:

 

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/stocks/london-loses-its-status-as-biggest-european-stock-market-to-paris 

 

They didn’t even say s'il vous plait or merci.

 

 

 

Because they didn't bother converting to USD. And why would they? This is a forex issue.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

I'm sensing more than a touch of deja vu here.

Get used to it, Brexit promises are being revealed as lies, you will be hearing a lot more of it.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Try harder, there are ,millions of them.

Well, there were.

[Chomper Higgot]

12 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Fair enough, as you misread the title of this thread and thought it was about comparing the U.K to other E.U countries, I can accept that you got your newspapers mixed .

   The guy in questions company made 840 Million GBP profit last year and some of that would be due to employing cheap E.U workers .

  Maybe now he would need to pay people a decent wage to the workers and unfortunately for him, his 840 Million quid a year profit may be reduced a bit 

Where is your evidence he was employing ‘cheap EU workers’?

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Get used to it, Brexit promises are being revealed as lies, you will be hearing a lot more of it.

Promises (and threats) were made from all over the place but who was in any position to promise anything? Especially when dealing with an affronted and vindictive EU commission. Horrible lot and I'm glad we're out. 

[RayC]

9 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Carl from Carshalton working as a Hod carrier in Cricklewood is concerned about his wage packet at the end of the week , market economies wouldn't come into his decision as to whether to vote Leave or Remain 

Then perhaps Carl - and others - should give things a bit more thought. The reduction in economic activity caused by Brexit will, most likely, eventually lead to a reduction in demand for his hod-carrying services.

[Bluespunk]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now here's a radical idea. Institute policies ( and an education system that actually educates people ) so that British people fill those job vacancies.

Allowing young people to rot on the dole and bringing in overseas workers is a lazy solution and is not going to end well.

And how exactly does the education system not educate people?
 

I ask as an educator. 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now here's a radical idea. Institute policies ( and an education system that actually educates people ) so that British people fill those job vacancies.

Allowing young people to rot on the dole and bringing in overseas workers is a lazy solution and is not going to end well.

I agree entirely that the UK should do a much better job in educating its' workforce. I also agree that allowing people to "rot on the dole" is a lazy, uneconomic and inefficient system however, generally speaking, the UK has always been dependent on migrant labour to fill some of its' job vacancies and I don't see any problem with that. 

[RayC]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

And how exactly does the education system not educate people?
 

I ask as an educator. 

Vocational training is sadly lacking in the UK especially when compared to our peers e.g. Germany.

[n00dle]

Because they <deleted> themselves with Brexit.

[brewsterbudgen]

Just now, n00dle said:

Because they <deleted> themselves with Brexit.

Yes, I think that's the consensus.

[n00dle]

40 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Promises (and threats) were made from all over the place but who was in any position to promise anything? Especially when dealing with an affronted and vindictive EU commission. Horrible lot and I'm glad we're out. 

And so you reap the benefits.

[johnnybangkok]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now here's a radical idea. Institute policies ( and an education system that actually educates people ) so that British people fill those job vacancies.

Allowing young people to rot on the dole and bringing in overseas workers is a lazy solution and is not going to end well.

Another myopic post that doesn't understand the true economics of the UK. The Office for National Statistics said the unemployment rate fell to 3.5% over the three months to August – the lowest since February 1974. https://www.itv.com/news/2022-10-11/uk-unemployment-falls-to-lowest-rate-since-1974-amid-rise-in-long-term-sickness

 

This shows that more people than ever are actively working in the UK, a number that has been consistently going down well before Brexit and is now higher due to Covid and people leaving the work force. Also in the same piece “However, the number of people neither working nor looking for work continues to rise ......' In other words, people just decided not to return to the work-force but this doesn't mean they are 'rotting on the dole' as you are trying to say. They've just taken themselves out of the labour market.

'The figures come as employers said severe shortages of workers after the Covid pandemic and Brexit were holding back the British economy, with the number of job vacancies close to a record high at more than 1.2m.   https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/oct/11/uk-unemployment-long-term-sick-jobless-level-pay-inflation

There are more people gainfully employed in the UK than ever before, but demand is outstripping supply. This is made a greart deal worse now that the free movement of EU nationals means they aren't coming to the UK and not taking the lower level jobs that Brits turn their nose up at. This is also on the back of the government initiative that says 'After four weeks, job seekers will be required to apply for and accept offers for all types of work - including lower-paid, less-skilled roles than their last job - or face welfare payment cuts'.  https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-government-tightens-welfare-rules-unemployed-2022-01-27/.

 

But even this isn't working as there's simply too many jobs vacancies open to be ever filled by Brits, especially lower level, more menial jobs that a lot of Europeans eagerly took. 

 

[johnnybangkok]

13 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Forget about about minimum  wage :

Carl from Carshalton the Hod carrier earns 20 Pound an hour on a building site in Cricklewood 

Piotr comes over from Poland and carries the hod for 15 Pound an hour in Paddington  =     Cheap labour 

I'm sure there is an intense battle for hod carriers going on in Cricklewood right now but you really shouldn't think this exemplifies the whole of the UK. 

And wasn't it the Irish everyone was complaining about in the 70's and 80's for doing the exact same thing in the building industry? 'Those pesky Paddy's taking all of our hod carrying jobs!'  

If a Polish national can come over and do exactly the same job (and I hear they actually do much better) than the Brit at a much lower rate, then perhaps you should be blaming the Brit.

[BritManToo]

29 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

And how exactly does the education system not educate people?
 

I ask as an educator. 

I was a high school teacher in the UK (council estate schools).

All that was ever required of me was to keep them seated and in the classroom.

[Bluespunk]

22 minutes ago, RayC said:

Vocational training is sadly lacking in the UK especially when compared to our peers e.g. Germany.

That is an aspect of the education system. Not the education system itself.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I was a high school teacher in the UK (council estate schools).

All that was ever required of me was to keep them seated and in the classroom.

Funny, I teach primary and do all I can to do to keep them active and engaged. Whether they sit or not matters to me not, as long as they are learning.

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Funny, I teach primary and do all I can to do to keep them active and engaged. Whether they sit or not matters to me not, as long as they are learning.

I agree, primary teaching has much less problems.

I used to teach the final year classes in primary occasionally, although I dreaded finger painting.

 

Although I would hesitate to describe a primary school teacher as an educator.

[Andrew65]

18 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

EU wasn't a problem with trading with the rest of the world what planet are you on. 

Whilst an EU member state it's forbidden to sign separate free trade deals with non-member states. Other than that, what you say is true.

[Mac Mickmanus]

23 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I'm sure there is an intense battle for hod carriers going on in Cricklewood right now but you really shouldn't think this exemplifies the whole of the UK. 

And wasn't it the Irish everyone was complaining about in the 70's and 80's for doing the exact same thing in the building industry? 'Those pesky Paddy's taking all of our hod carrying jobs!'  

If a Polish national can come over and do exactly the same job (and I hear they actually do much better) than the Brit at a much lower rate, then perhaps you should be blaming the Brit.

Yes, the Brit should live with five other people in a one bedroom property and have a loaf of bread and a fish a day for dinner and work six days a week and clean the bosses car at lunch time and tell the boss when other people are late  , really should be competing with the 

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Whilst an EU member state it's forbidden to sign separate free trade deals with non-member states. Other than that, what you say is true.

Thank you that is what I mean.

When people blame brexit it annoys me,  UK is in a bad place and it's gonna take a while to get out of it and moaning don't help. 

 

As for me I'm glad I'm here.

[placeholder]

17 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The E.U doesn't and didn't have a trade deal with the USA either .

Some people are saying it was a big mistake to leave the E.U because now we don't have a trade deal with the USA.....................but we didn't have a trade deal with the USA whilst a EU member either 

But the point was that leaving the EU would allow the UK to make a deal with the USA. Of course, even if a deal had been concluded, it would have made virtually no difference to the UK's economy. The conservative government evaluated the effect of such a deal, and concluded that it would have added a tiny fraction of a percentage point to UK GDP.

[placeholder]

22 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Thank you that is what I mean.

When people blame brexit it annoys me,  UK is in a bad place and it's gonna take a while to get out of it and moaning don't help. 

 

As for me I'm glad I'm here.

But clarity does or should help. And if you don't accept the existence of a major source of the problem, then you're living in denial. Not a good approach to rectifying the situation.

[Andrew65]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:19 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

The U.K voted as one , it wasn't dived up into regions .

All the Votes from British citizens were counted and the results came from those .

   Like, if Scottish people voted for the SNP and they won , the UK wouldn't get an SNP Government 

The biggest single issue in the Brexit debate was immigration, which is perceived as a big issue in England, but not so in Scotland or Ulster. According to the BBC 95% of the immigration into our country is into England (there are currently 10 million people who were born overseas in the UK).

[Bluespunk]

52 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Although I would hesitate to describe a primary school teacher as an educator.

Really?

 

Who teaches them:

 

To read? 

 

To write/spell/understand how to use punctuation/what a sentence is?

 

To Count and learn how to carry out the basics of all maths?

 

To investigate and explore concepts?

 

To carry out scientific investigations in a systematic manner?

 

To research, note and record information?

 

Did you do all this with 20+ on a daily basis?

 

Or were you too busy keeping them say down...

[superal]

34 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I'm sure there is an intense battle for hod carriers going on in Cricklewood right now but you really shouldn't think this exemplifies the whole of the UK. 

And wasn't it the Irish everyone was complaining about in the 70's and 80's for doing the exact same thing in the building industry? 'Those pesky Paddy's taking all of our hod carrying jobs!'  

If a Polish national can come over and do exactly the same job (and I hear they actually do much better) than the Brit at a much lower rate, then perhaps you should be blaming the Brit.

I do not agree , why ? A Polish national can easily undercut the wage of a Brit and still be earning 4 times what he could earn in Poland . However I did agree with your post of 2 posts ago . 

 

There is no doubt that Brexit is the main cause of the UK economic downturn but let us not forget why the British public voted for Brexit . 

1/ to be free from the reigns of Belgium 

2/ Immigration issues .

3/ The free movement of workers within the E.C. meant that the UK was invaded by lower paid foreign workers who were putting British workers out of work . This ploy was used by many UK industries who would employ personnel by way of employment agencies . ( My niece was a manager of such an agency who were not interested in Brits . They set up an office in Warsaw which was their main source of recruitment ) . Resulting in unqualified HGV drivers and electricians etc .

Now all those employers are crying because of the lack of takers for their low paid jobs or official minimum wage jobs that means reduced profits .

There is no doubt that foreign workers are needed in the UK right now , especially skilled workers , medics and arable farm workers but there has to be selected needs and qualified government approved resourcing .