Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, candide said:

Another fake news from the Brexiteers. The so-called bent bananas have not been banned, they have been classified as cat.2. This has been done at the request of professional organisations, who wanted clear criteria to distinguish between premium quality bananas and other categories, so that consumers would be be offered clear choices. ????

It is not uncommon for fruits and vegetables to be classified into different categories.

LOL. Does a fresh bent banana taste worse than a straight banana? IMO taste is the only indicator of quality in a banana. They all go unpleasant to eat within 4 days.

Perhaps there was some non quality related thing about the bendy bananas that caused the dictat - eg get less in a box, which would make it about greed efficiency rather than quality.

[candide]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Does a fresh bent banana taste worse than a straight banana? IMO taste is the only indicator of quality in a banana. They all go unpleasant to eat within 4 days.

Perhaps there was some non quality related thing about the bendy bananas that caused the dictat - eg get less in a box, which would make it about greed efficiency rather than quality.

You may be right. Actually, it may be a better deal to buy cat.2 bananas, which probably have the same taste and are cheaper.

Anyway, my point was that they were not banned, contrary to what the Brexiteers' propaganda claimed.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, candide said:

You may be right. Actually, it may be a better deal to buy cat.2 bananas, which probably have the same taste and are cheaper.

Anyway, my point was that they were not banned, contrary to what the Brexiteers' propaganda claimed.

I hope I did not claim they were banned, as my point was that Brussels was giving a dictat to the UK about bananas. It's that sort of micromanagement that so annoyed me about the EU.

If Britain wants to import bananas without some sort of discrimination against bent bananas surely that is the business of Britain and not the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels? IMO Brussels wants to dictate rather than co operate with individual members of the EU.

[Mac Mickmanus]

35 minutes ago, candide said:

You may be right. Actually, it may be a better deal to buy cat.2 bananas, which probably have the same taste and are cheaper.

Anyway, my point was that they were not banned, contrary to what the Brexiteers' propaganda claimed.

If they aren't banned, then there's no reason why the UK shouldn't re-join the E.U 

   When can we come back ?

[candide]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I hope I did not claim they were banned, as my point was that Brussels was giving a dictat to the UK about bananas. It's that sort of micromanagement that so annoyed me about the EU.

If Britain wants to import bananas without some sort of discrimination against bent bananas surely that is the business of Britain and not the faceless bureaucrats in Brussels? IMO Brussels wants to dictate rather than co operate with individual members of the EU.

My first post was a reply to another poster claiming they were banned.

 

Nothing prevents "Britain" from importing whatever it wants. Actually, It's not Britain, which makes this decision of importing this or that, It's a large number of wholesalers and retailers. When they order a box of bananas at a given price, they want to know what they will get. That's why the industry asked the EC to define standards.

 

If a supermarket wants perfect shaped bananas, it knows it needs to order extra class. If it cares less about defects of shape than price, it can order cheaper class 2 bananas. Simple, clear and fast choices, That's the role of standards, to make life more simple and predictable. The reality of business is far different from the Brexiteers' fantasies.

[zyphodb]

On 11/12/2022 at 9:07 AM, VocalNeal said:

Is it struggling more than other countries????

Yes, that's what a decade of Tory robbers will do...

[zyphodb]

23 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

The US suffered more fatalities in WWII than did the UK. 

 

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/students-teachers/student-resources/research-starters/research-starters-worldwide-deaths-world-war

Put that into percentage lost of national population and it might look a little different. Russia was the biggest loser in WW2 as far as people killed goes on the allied side at least...

[nigelforbes]

6 minutes ago, zyphodb said:

Put that into percentage lost of national population and it might look a little different. Russia was the biggest loser in WW2 as far as people killed goes on the allied side at least...

Yes I agree. The point I made earlier which seems to have not been understood by some, is that the difference in the total number of fatalities between the US and the UK during WWII was relatively small. I personally feel that using absolute numbers is adequate and that trying to display them as percentages of this or that really doesn't add value to the fact. When a previous poster referred to the huge sacrifice made by the UK as being sufficient reason for the US to forgive the UK's war debt, I don't believe that relatively small difference supports the assertion that it is,  because  other countries also made huge sacrifices, including the US. The other aspect of course is that we end up debating the number of war dead versus the subject of the thread which is why is the UK struggling economically.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, candide said:

My first post was a reply to another poster claiming they were banned.

 

Nothing prevents "Britain" from importing whatever it wants. Actually, It's not Britain, which makes this decision of importing this or that, It's a large number of wholesalers and retailers. When they order a box of bananas at a given price, they want to know what they will get. That's why the industry asked the EC to define standards.

 

If a supermarket wants perfect shaped bananas, it knows it needs to order extra class. If it cares less about defects of shape than price, it can order cheaper class 2 bananas. Simple, clear and fast choices, That's the role of standards, to make life more simple and predictable. The reality of business is far different from the Brexiteers' fantasies.

Surely it withing the ability of large scale importers of anything to dictate their own standards to the supplier? I fail to see why a governmental department has time to be concerning itself with how bent a banana can be.

It's ridiculous anyway as the taste of a banana has nothing to do with how bendy it is.

If the government wants to get involved with bananas, I wish they'd do something about making them last more than 4 days before becoming unpleasant to eat.

[DaLa]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Surely it withing the ability of large scale importers of anything to dictate their own standards to the supplier? I fail to see why a governmental department has time to be concerning itself with how bent a banana can be.

It's ridiculous anyway as the taste of a banana has nothing to do with how bendy it is.

If the government wants to get involved with bananas, I wish they'd do something about making them last more than 4 days before becoming unpleasant to eat.

4 days!  luxury, you're spoilt.  4 hours with the bananas my wife brings home in LoS.

[superal]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

Yes I agree. The point I made earlier which seems to have not been understood by some, is that the difference in the total number of fatalities between the US and the UK during WWII was relatively small. I personally feel that using absolute numbers is adequate and that trying to display them as percentages of this or that really doesn't add value to the fact. When a previous poster referred to the huge sacrifice made by the UK as being sufficient reason for the US to forgive the UK's war debt, I don't believe that relatively small difference supports the assertion that it is,  because  other countries also made huge sacrifices, including the US. The other aspect of course is that we end up debating the number of war dead versus the subject of the thread which is why is the UK struggling economically.

Not WW11 but today's Ukraine / Russian war is relevant because it has effected many countries economically with the worse to come over the winter months . 

It is it seems that NATO and the E.C. are made up of many of the same countries and whilst the E.C. countries are happy for the UK to be heavily involved with supporting the Ukraine , ( 2nd only to the USA ), they despise the fact that the UK have divorced the E.U. and are behaving like a scorned woman . The fact that the UK belonged to the EC for 47 years , counts as nothing with existing long term trading being stifled to demonstrate that if you leave the E.U. this is what will happen to your country . So masses of red tape paperwork needed by the French customs overnight , how pathetic and that alone highlights the scale of the Brussels bureaucracy . 

Of course Brexit has caused economic woe to the UK along with the Ukraine war but every cloud has a silver lining and the UK will be at the forefront of the massive rebuilding of Ukraine . Then watch the E.U. countries sing the blues . 

[bannork]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Not WW11 but today's Ukraine / Russian war is relevant because it has effected many countries economically with the worse to come over the winter months . 

It is it seems that NATO and the E.C. are made up of many of the same countries and whilst the E.C. countries are happy for the UK to be heavily involved with supporting the Ukraine , ( 2nd only to the USA ), they despise the fact that the UK have divorced the E.U. and are behaving like a scorned woman . The fact that the UK belonged to the EC for 47 years , counts as nothing with existing long term trading being stifled to demonstrate that if you leave the E.U. this is what will happen to your country . So masses of red tape paperwork needed by the French customs overnight , how pathetic and that alone highlights the scale of the Brussels bureaucracy . 

Of course Brexit has caused economic woe to the UK along with the Ukraine war but every cloud has a silver lining and the UK will be at the forefront of the massive rebuilding of Ukraine . Then watch the E.U. countries sing the blues . 

The red tape is all our own doing/ stupidity. We intentionally became a third country, thereby knocking 4% off our GDP.

The world's largest trading bloc on our doorstep and we leave it!

You couldn't make this stuff up.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, superal said:

Not WW11 but today's Ukraine / Russian war is relevant because it has effected many countries economically with the worse to come over the winter months . 

It is it seems that NATO and the E.C. are made up of many of the same countries and whilst the E.C. countries are happy for the UK to be heavily involved with supporting the Ukraine , ( 2nd only to the USA ), they despise the fact that the UK have divorced the E.U. and are behaving like a scorned woman . The fact that the UK belonged to the EC for 47 years , counts as nothing with existing long term trading being stifled to demonstrate that if you leave the E.U. this is what will happen to your country . So masses of red tape paperwork needed by the French customs overnight , how pathetic and that alone highlights the scale of the Brussels bureaucracy . 

Of course Brexit has caused economic woe to the UK along with the Ukraine war but every cloud has a silver lining and the UK will be at the forefront of the massive rebuilding of Ukraine . Then watch the E.U. countries sing the blues . 

The EU and NATO memberships may overlap but they are separate, independent entities and need to be analysed as such.

 

The UK government deserves respect for the support that it has shown to Ukraine, but I doubt that it will mean much when it comes to handing out contracts for its' rebuilding. After all, Ukraine wants to succeed to the EU and a few strategically placed contracts with EU firms won't harm their prospects.

 

In any event, unfortunately, it looks like there will be plenty of work to go around.

[superal]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

The red tape is all our own doing/ stupidity. We intentionally became a third country, thereby knocking 4% off our GDP.

The world's largest trading bloc on our doorstep and we leave it!

You couldn't make this stuff up.

The UK was very close to losing its identity with masses of foreign labour changing the face of many towns . E.G. Boston in Lincolnshire where English became the third language in schools . Things are bad enough today but the E.C. days were a disaster for may of the UK born workers who often struggled to get mundane employment because of being undercut by foreign labour . Who was making money ? the owners and share holders of UK companies who did not care who worked for them , the cheaper rates the better  and no allegiance to the true Brits . In my experience in several industries including petrol/chem , ship building and nuclear  ,  the British tradesmen are second to none but were sxxx on by greedy major UK companies . Thatcher knew what she was doing when she pushed for the channel tunnel .

Finally I have some European friends who all say they wish their countries would leave the E.C. This includes Germany , France & Italy ,  that I am told are overrun with asylum seekers . 

[candide]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Surely it withing the ability of large scale importers of anything to dictate their own standards to the supplier? I fail to see why a governmental department has time to be concerning itself with how bent a banana can be.

It's ridiculous anyway as the taste of a banana has nothing to do with how bendy it is.

If the government wants to get involved with bananas, I wish they'd do something about making them last more than 4 days before becoming unpleasant to eat.

It is not uncommon for fruit and vegetables to be classified. There is no reason it shouldn't be done when the industry asks for it. And It's more simple for everyone to have the same standards for the EC/EU, rather than different domestic standards.

Anyway, not banned. Brexiteers's lie.

[superal]

36 minutes ago, RayC said:

The EU and NATO memberships may overlap but they are separate, independent entities and need to be analysed as such.

 

The UK government deserves respect for the support that it has shown to Ukraine, but I doubt that it will mean much when it comes to handing out contracts for its' rebuilding. After all, Ukraine wants to succeed to the EU and a few strategically placed contracts with EU firms won't harm their prospects.

 

In any event, unfortunately, it looks like there will be plenty of work to go around.

Unfortunately I have no links , however I was watching the UK news a couple of days ago which focused on the new UK PMs visit to meet the Ukraine's president Zelensky and within that report it was stated that the UK would be given a major role in the re-building of much of the Ukraine as a gesture of the outstanding support and unwavering military help that Ukraine had received from the UK . We do not know the real extent of the UK assistance but I have been told it is significant .

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, candide said:

It is not uncommon for fruit and vegetables to be classified. There is no reason it shouldn't be done when the industry asks for it. And It's more simple for everyone to have the same standards for the EC/EU, rather than different domestic standards.

Anyway, not banned. Brexiteers's lie.

There were E.U marketing standards for 26 different kinds of products which caused lots of food to be rejected and binned because of E.U regulations , although these regulations were relaxed in 2008 due to wastage 

[RayC]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Unfortunately I have no links , however I was watching the UK news a couple of days ago which focused on the new UK PMs visit to meet the Ukraine's president Zelensky and within that report it was stated that the UK would be given a major role in the re-building of much of the Ukraine as a gesture of the outstanding support and unwavering military help that Ukraine had received from the UK . We do not know the real extent of the UK assistance but I have been told it is significant .

As I said previously, unfortunately given the devastation, I imagine that there will be plenty of work to go around. Who pays for it may be a bigger issue.

 

Again, the UK government deserves credit for the military support that it has provided but the humanitarian aid provided by Poland (1.5m refugees accommodated); Germany (1 m) and Czechia (.4m) shouldn't be forgotten.

[RayC]

2 hours ago, superal said:

The UK was very close to losing its identity with masses of foreign labour changing the face of many towns . E.G. Boston in Lincolnshire where English became the third language in schools . Things are bad enough today but the E.C. days were a disaster for may of the UK born workers who often struggled to get mundane employment because of being undercut by foreign labour . Who was making money ? the owners and share holders of UK companies who did not care who worked for them , the cheaper rates the better  and no allegiance to the true Brits . In my experience in several industries including petrol/chem , ship building and nuclear  ,  the British tradesmen are second to none but were sxxx on by greedy major UK companies . Thatcher knew what she was doing when she pushed for the channel tunnel .

Finally I have some European friends who all say they wish their countries would leave the E.C. This includes Germany , France & Italy ,  that I am told are overrun with asylum seekers . 

Depends what you mean by Identity.

 

As someone born and bred in Brixton, I've never known any different than being surrounded by people who were non-native and, in many cases, non-white. I suppose because it was my upbringing I didn't give it a second thought. Brixton was a <deleted>-hole in the 70s and 80s, and there were undoubtably a few bad apples but most people, whatever their colour, were decent, law-abiding citizens. One of the biggest problems was the racist, heavy-handed policing by the likes of the SPG. 

 

Your European friends who want to leave the EU are in the minority. I know very few who even toy with the idea.

 

In any event, your post and mine prove nothing. It is all ancedotal evidence (but I find that it's good to get it off your chest every now and again).

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Bendy bananas are from about 30 years go 

It was a topic of discussion in the 1990's

Here you go:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1994R2257:20060217:EN:PDF

 

EU QC saves the day again. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Here you go:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1994R2257:20060217:EN:PDF

 

EU QC saves the day again. 

There is some truth about bendy bananas and it isn't lies :

 

A. Minimum requirements In all classes, subject to the special provisions for each class and the tolerances allowed, the bananas must be:

 

— free from malformation or abnormal curvature of the fingers,

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There is some truth about bendy bananas and it isn't lies :

 

A. Minimum requirements In all classes, subject to the special provisions for each class and the tolerances allowed, the bananas must be:

 

— free from malformation or abnormal curvature of the fingers,

I didn't suggest any lies, Mac. I just found the wonderful regulation. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I didn't suggest any lies, Mac. I just found the wonderful regulation. 

I wasn't suggesting that you were lying , there is a poster above who has been stating it was all lies about bendy bananas and I was replying to those allegations , but fair enough, I should have quoted those posts and not your post 

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Bendy bananas are from about 30 years go 

It was a topic of discussion in the 1990's

Yes. I had forgotten about them - obviously, some Remainers have not.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Depends what you mean by Identity.

 

As someone born and bred in Brixton, I've never known any different than being surrounded by people who were non-native and, in many cases, non-white. I suppose because it was my upbringing I didn't give it a second thought. Brixton was a <deleted>-hole in the 70s and 80s, and there were undoubtably a few bad apples but most people, whatever their colour, were decent, law-abiding citizens. One of the biggest problems was the racist, heavy-handed policing by the likes of the SPG. 

 

 

Brixton has changed a lot recently , like Notting Hill and other places as well .

   The local community is being pushed out and being replaced by younger people not from the Afro -Caribbean community and local Black people are complaining because they are being pushed out the area White people not from the local area 

 

"Official figures show Brixton’s borough, Lambeth, saw its Afro-Caribbean community decrease by more than a third between 1991 and 2011. "

 

https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/30/not-welcome-in-my-own-area-how-gentrification-is-segregating-brixton-17587009/

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There were E.U marketing standards for 26 different kinds of products which caused lots of food to be rejected and binned because of E.U regulations , although these regulations were relaxed in 2008 due to wastage 

So, old, out dated and redundant information...quelle surprise.

[Bluespunk]

31 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Yes. I had forgotten about them - obviously, some Remainers have not.

It was a brexiteer who introduced the point...

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 hours ago, candide said:

It is not uncommon for fruit and vegetables to be classified. There is no reason it shouldn't be done when the industry asks for it. And It's more simple for everyone to have the same standards for the EC/EU, rather than different domestic standards.

Anyway, not banned. Brexiteers's lie.

No, you are lying .

There were indeed bans on various fruits and vegetables because they didn't meet the E.U.s requirements and those bans were lifted in 2009 after a 20 year ban 

 

https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2009/07/02/EU-scraps-ban-on-misshaped-fruit-and-veg

[Rimmer]

An abusive troll post has been removed also replies

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I wasn't suggesting that you were lying , there is a poster above who has been stating it was all lies about bendy bananas and I was replying to those allegations , but fair enough, I should have quoted those posts and not your post 

No worries. Bear in mind that this reg was for green bananas - you know the ones from Mars.