Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[RayC]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No point bringing up facts. It's all about Brexit, didn't you know?

 

Sarcasm alert for those devoid of sense of humour.

Talking of facts, care to provide some to support the statement that ".. any increase since 2020 (Brexit) {in child poverty rates} would have been primarily due to Covid and Ukraine"?

 

Sense of humour shut up shop for the festive period. Scrooge on duty.????

[Chomper Higgot]

24 minutes ago, roo860 said:

Doesn't fit the Brit haters agenda. 

By ‘Brit Haters’ are you referring to people who supported, promoted and voted for the self harm we know as Brexit?

 

People who actually cared about the damage it would do, and has done, presented their arguments not to damage the economy and the nation’s international standing.

[Chomper Higgot]

duplicate post deleted.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

People who actually cared about the damage it would do, and has done, presented their arguments not to damage the economy and the nation’s international standing.

And they lost the vote, so as a democracy Britain implemented the wishes of the majority. 

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

There shouldn't be lack of affordable accommodation in UK  it's always the dam money thing. 

 

I was fortunate back in my time in UK but it still wasn't easy, for younger people now it just seems impossible unless rich Ma and Pa. 

A direct result of selling off council houses, restricting the building of replacement council houses and promoting the private landlord rental market.

 

Choking the supply of housing and putting first time buyers in competition with private landlords, many of whom leveraged their own existing property wealth to obtain. Lower cost mortgages and again getting ahead of first time buyers.

 

Add that to the vested political interest in jacking up house prices and the reason why the UK is not building enough houses becomes clear.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

And they lost the vote, so as a democracy Britain implemented the wishes of the majority. 

And the predicted self harm ensued.

[RayC]

13 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

1 , I don't know about the UK poverty rates , but any increase since 2020 (Brexit) would have been primarily due to Covid and Ukraine 

   2 Food bank usage decreased last year , although the previous increases were caused by the pandemic and lockdown and last years decrease was caused by pandemic restrictions being lifted .

 3 Again , I have no idea about UK exports

4 British people can no longer go and live in the E.U and also E.U citizens cannot now go and live in the U.K and this will benefit British kids with things like housing availability and the jobs market in the UK

5 More housing and jobs available in the U.K 

6 Both sides gave a biased opinion /prediction of how the UK would be effected by Brexit 

 

  Anymore questions ?

You are doing it again. You provide no evidence but you, nevertheless, phrase things in such a categorical way "...would have been..", "..was caused by...", etc. that it reads as fact.

 

It is not. It is simply unsubstantiated opinion.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

You are doing it again. You provide no evidence but you, nevertheless, phrase things in such a categorical way "...would have been..", "..was caused by...", etc. that it reads as fact.

 

It is not. It is simply unsubstantiated opinion.

I posted facts and it isn't my opinion .

If you feel something wasn't factual, then please reply to the point I made  and give your reasons why you think it wasn't factual 

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I posted facts and it isn't my opinion .

If you feel something wasn't factual, then please reply to the point I made  and give your reasons why you think it wasn't factual 

Anecdotes are not facts.
 

Facts need to be supported with verifiable evidence. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Bluespunk

[RayC]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given it's been hardly any time ( politically ) since brexit,

It has been six and a half years since the vote to leave and there is still no semblance of a plan or even a vision of this Brexit future.

 

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

and there has also been something called covid, plus inflation,

Why shouldn't Rees-Moog (Minister for Brexit) and his department have continued to work on Brexit related matters during lockdown? What's inflation got to do with it?

 

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

why do the wannabeineuro posters keep claiming it's the end of the world that Britain isn't in the Eurozone anymore?

The claim - backed by data - is that Brexit has had a negative economic impact on the UK.

 

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

It's like if they keep saying the same thing over and over it will make people believe they are right, and beg to be let back in. LOL.

You can lead a horse, etc.

 

We can present evidence. You can stick your head in the sand, stick your fingers in your ears and chant 'Ra Ra Ra, can't hear you' or whatever your preferred method of avoiding inconvenient truths is or, alternatively, you can be rational and think 'You know what, they might have a point'.

 

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

One wonders how Britain managed before they joined the EEC if it's so bad. Come to that, one wonders how they managed to rule a large part of the world if they are so pathetic now.

The world has moved on from the 1940s and '70s. Imo it's highly unlikely that what worked then - especially in terms of foreign policy and trade - will work in the 2020s.

 

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

In time all will be resolved for the benefit of the British people.

Unless of course it isn't, and the UK finds itself in an even worse mess.

[Kwasaki]

22 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And the predicted self harm ensued.

Correct and many are unable to see or wait for what future holds. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

34 minutes ago, RayC said:

Talking of facts, care to provide some to support the statement that ".. any increase since 2020 (Brexit) {in child poverty rates} would have been primarily due to Covid and Ukraine"?

 

Sense of humour shut up shop for the festive period. Scrooge on duty.????

Ray, You seem to be getting him and me mixed up again, it was me who posted the quoted bit above  ,it was me, not him 

[superal]

41 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

There shouldn't be lack of affordable accommodation in UK  it's always the dam money thing. 

 

I was fortunate back in my time in UK but it still wasn't easy, for younger people now it just seems impossible unless rich Ma and Pa. 

Maybe the UK net migration figures of 500,000 , this year , has something to do with the housing shortage as local councils are obliged to house these immigrants 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Correct and many are unable to see or wait for what future holds. 

Ah 

 

‘Jam tomorrow’ and ‘warm sunlit uplands’ just over the horizon.

 

 

[RayC]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I posted facts and it isn't my opinion .

If you feel something wasn't factual, then please reply to the point I made  and give your reasons why you think it wasn't factual 

I'll reproduce the post in question with my challenge/ question(s) to you in <> after each point.

 

"1. I don't know about the UK poverty rates , but any increase since 2020 (Brexit) would have been primarily due to Covid and Ukraine "

 

<Where is your evidence to support the "fact" that Covid and Ukraine have had a bigger effect (than Brexit)? (Note: A bigger effect on the overall UK economy will do for me).>

 

  " 2 Food bank usage decreased last year , although the previous increases were caused by the pandemic and lockdown and last years decrease was caused by pandemic restrictions being lifted ."

 

<Again. Evidence to support these "facts"?>

 

 "3 Again , I have no idea about UK exports"

 

<Fair enough. Let's move on.>

 

"4 British people can no longer go and live in the E.U and also E.U citizens cannot now go and live in the U.K and this will benefit British kids with things like housing availability and the jobs market in the UK"

 

<Where is the evidence to support the "fact" that housing and jobs will be more accessible for Brits (kids or otherwise) as a result of the restrictions on EU immigration?>

 

"5 More housing and jobs available in the U.K "

 

<Again. Supporting evidence?>

 

"6 Both sides gave a biased opinion /prediction of how the UK would be effected by Brexit "

 

<Bias in what ways? Outright lies? Examples? Evidence?>

[Mac Mickmanus]

13 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

 

The claim - backed by data - is that Brexit has had a negative economic impact on the UK.

 

 

 

We can present evidence. You can stick your head in the sand, stick your fingers in your ears and chant 'Ra Ra Ra, can't hear you' or whatever your preferred method of avoiding inconvenient truths is or, alternatively, you can be rational and think 'You know what, they might have a point'.

 

But its you who doesn't understand .

We are not bothered if Brexit has had a detrimental effect on the U.K economy .

   You can keep saying it over and over again, and exaggerate as much as you like  .

  The U.K is doing just fine being out the E,U and we aren't bothered if being out the E.U has had a detrimental effect on the economy .

   Like, Who cares ?

Not me 

[RayC]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear. In these sad times if one is losing an argument just introduce racism to make the other side shut up. Thankfully that tactic doesn't always work.

Racism is an incorrect word. Xenophobia is more accurate. 

 

If you want some evidence that some Brexiters you need look no further than this thread (go back +/-20 pages, work your way forward and I think that you find examples)

 

".. losing an argument.." ???? Were all the jokes in your box of Christmas crackers that good?

[Kwasaki]

21 minutes ago, superal said:

Maybe the UK net migration figures of 500,000 , this year , has something to do with the housing shortage as local councils are obliged to house these immigrants 

Well there's a job for them straight away,  sent in the bricks and mortar,  don't forget insulation. 

[RayC]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

But its you who doesn't understand .

We are not bothered if Brexit has had a detrimental effect on the U.K economy .

   You can keep saying it over and over again, and exaggerate as much as you like  .

  The U.K is doing just fine being out the E,U and we aren't bothered if being out the E.U has had a detrimental effect on the economy .

   Like, Who cares ?

Not me 

And you can keep trying to pass off your opinion as fact. It is not and I will continue to remind you of that. Btw:That is an example of a fact

 

 

 

There is no exaggeration (imo)

The UK is not doing "just fine being out (sic) the EU.." (imo)

 

Who cares about making the country poorer? Economically literate people who don't self harm.

[Kwasaki]

25 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Ah 

 

‘Jam tomorrow’ and ‘warm sunlit uplands’ just over the horizon.

 

There ya go, that's the way,  be optimistic. ????

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

I'll reproduce the post in question with my challenge/ question(s) to you in <> after each point.

 

"1. I don't know about the UK poverty rates , but any increase since 2020 (Brexit) would have been primarily due to Covid and Ukraine "

 

<Where is your evidence to support the "fact" that Covid and Ukraine have had a bigger effect (than Brexit)? (Note: A bigger effect on the overall UK economy will do for me).>

 

  " 2 Food bank usage decreased last year , although the previous increases were caused by the pandemic and lockdown and last years decrease was caused by pandemic restrictions being lifted ."

 

<Again. Evidence to support these "facts"?>

 

 "3 Again , I have no idea about UK exports"

 

<Fair enough. Let's move on.>

 

"4 British people can no longer go and live in the E.U and also E.U citizens cannot now go and live in the U.K and this will benefit British kids with things like housing availability and the jobs market in the UK"

 

<Where is the evidence to support the "fact" that housing and jobs will be more accessible for Brits (kids or otherwise) as a result of the restrictions on EU immigration?>

 

"5 More housing and jobs available in the U.K "

 

<Again. Supporting evidence?>

 

"6 Both sides gave a biased opinion /prediction of how the UK would be effected by Brexit "

 

<Bias in what ways? Outright lies? Examples? Evidence?>

1 . I have stated that many time before and you keep asking . 

I cannot keep replying with the same answer over and over again .........................once again, its the the Ukraine war that has caused high inflation and Covid..........................no I cannot keep writing the same thing over and over again, sorry 

 

  2 I read that information from a link from the charity , it may have been from that link or another one and it also stands to reason, more people got food from food banks when they werent working during the pandemic 

 

  4 . That is common sense . 

If there are less people coming to live in the U.K , then there will be ,more housing available , same with jobs .

 

5 Just say for example all the six million E.U citizens in the UK go back to Europe , there will be six million house vacancies where they used to live

 

6 Surely you can remember ?

Do you really need me to tell you what both sides of the campaign were saying ?

   Its been repeated many time before and its common knowledge 

   

[Mac Mickmanus]

12 minutes ago, RayC said:

And you can keep trying to pass off your opinion as fact. It is not and I will continue to remind you of that. Btw:That is an example of a fact

 

 

 

There is no exaggeration (imo)

The UK is not doing "just fine being out (sic) the EU.." (imo)

 

Who cares about making the country poorer? Economically literate people who don't self harm.

More like : Brexit is done and dusted and we are out the E.U and now lets get on with it and move on and there's no point looking back and analysing what would have happened had   we'd stayed in .

   We left and lets get on with it and if leaving had a detrimental effect on the UK, then so be it 

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

1 . I have stated that many time before and you keep asking . 

I cannot keep replying with the same answer over and over again .........................once again, its the the Ukraine war that has caused high inflation and Covid..........................no I cannot keep writing the same thing over and over again, sorry 

 

  2 I read that information from a link from the charity , it may have been from that link or another one and it also stands to reason, more people got food from food banks when they werent working during the pandemic 

 

  4 . That is common sense . 

If there are less people coming to live in the U.K , then there will be ,more housing available , same with jobs .

 

5 Just say for example all the six million E.U citizens in the UK go back to Europe , there will be six million house vacancies where they used to live

 

6 Surely you can remember ?

Do you really need me to tell you what both sides of the campaign were saying ?

   Its been repeated many time before and its common knowledge 

   

And yet again you fail to mention the role brexit has played. 
 

Quelle Surprise 

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

More like : Brexit is done and dusted and we are out the E.U and now lets get on with it and move on and there's no point looking back and analysing what would have happened had   we'd stayed in .

   We left and lets get on with it and if leaving had a detrimental effect on the UK, then so be it 

There is every reason to show how brexit continues to damage the uks economy. 
 

That you don’t want to face that and refuse to accept facts is no reason to stop doing so. 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

He was ambushed by the lying EU and a cake. 

It was probably a lying EU cake. My money's on a Stollen or a Madeline.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A direct result of selling off council houses, restricting the building of replacement council houses and promoting the private landlord rental market.

 

Choking the supply of housing and putting first time buyers in competition with private landlords, many of whom leveraged their own existing property wealth to obtain. Lower cost mortgages and again getting ahead of first time buyers.

 

Add that to the vested political interest in jacking up house prices and the reason why the UK is not building enough houses becomes clear.

 

 

 

More like a direct result of record rises in immigration numbers since 1997.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06077/assets/841f882b-a72c-484f-af35-f9b98546171c.png

Edited December 30, 2022 by nauseus

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

More like a direct result of record rises in immigration numbers since 1997.

 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/

 

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06077/assets/841f882b-a72c-484f-af35-f9b98546171c.png

Immigration has added to the UK population every year since 1977.

 

Would you expect house building to increase?

Well house building has not increased, I’ve given my thoughts on why not above.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, RayC said:

It was probably a lying EU cake. My money's on a Stollen or a Madeline.

I’ll go with the Madeline, it brings back so many vivid memories.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

1 . I have stated that many time before and you keep asking . 

I cannot keep replying with the same answer over and over again .........................once again, its the the Ukraine war that has caused high inflation and Covid..........................no I cannot keep writing the same thing over and over again, sorry 

I'm not asking you to keep writing the same thing over and over again; in fact, I'd prefer it if you didn't. 

 

What I would like you to produce is something that states something along the lines of (example): "It is estimated that, to date, Covid has cost the UK economy £150bn; the war in Ukraine, £125bn and Brexit £50bn" (Source: The Daily Fact).

 

Until you produce this article I, and others, will continue to call you out about your unsubstantiated opinion that Covid and the war in Ukraine have done more damage to the UK economy than Brexit.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

  2 I read that information from a link from the charity , it may have been from that link or another one and it also stands to reason, more people got food from food banks when they werent working during the pandemic 

Maybe but a direct link would add weight to the proposition. In any event, tangential to the main discussion point.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

  4 . That is common sense . 

If there are less people coming to live in the U.K , then there will be ,more housing available , same with jobs .

Is (net) mitigation lower now than it was when we left the EU? Has the UK residential housing stock stayed the same post-Brexit? 

 

What might appear to be a simple cause-and-effect relationship might not be so straightforward. This, yet again, highlights the need to supply evidence to support your claims.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

5 Just say for example all the six million E.U citizens in the UK go back to Europe , there will be six million house vacancies where they used to live

Not as simple as that. See my previous comment.

 

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

 

6 Surely you can remember ?

Do you really need me to tell you what both sides of the campaign were saying ?

   Its been repeated many time before and its common knowledge 

   

Alright, you can have that one????

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

More like : Brexit is done and dusted and we are out the E.U and now lets get on with it and move on and there's no point looking back and analysing what would have happened had   we'd stayed in .

   We left and lets get on with it and if leaving had a detrimental effect on the UK, then so be it 

If there was nothing that could be done to remedy the situation, then I would agree.

 

However, there are alternatives such as rejoining the Customs Union and/or Single Market (which admittedly require EU agreement).

 

To recognise that something has a detrimental effect and then continue to do it or - as appeared to be the case since we left - actively try to make things progressively worse is an act of stupidity.