Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office

[Pattaya Spotter]

32 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your point makes a distinction between it being "allegedly being found" in MAL and "found" at Biden's residence.

The distinction is because President Trump disputes the allegations of classified documents being kept at his MAL residence and is challenging the Justice Department allegations of same; while Joseph Robinette Biden Jr., and his administration, has admitted the same.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Pattaya Spotter

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The distinction is because President Trump disputes the allegations of classified documents being kept at his MAL residence and is challenging the Justice Department allegations of same; while Joseph Robinette Biden Jr., and his administration, has admitted the same.

That depends when you ask him because he never lies does he.

 

Former President Donald Trump argued in a court filing Wednesday that the National Archives should have expected to find classified material among the 15 boxes Trump turned over in January from Mar-a-Lago because they were presidential records.

 

Beside which the classification has no bearing on the charges specified in the search warrant.

 

Donald Trump is under criminal investigation for potential violations of the Espionage Act and additional statutes relating to obstruction of justice and destroying federal government records

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[metisdead]

White House's response to Biden documents frustrates Democrats inside and outside the West Wing

 

Washington — Over the course of the week, West Wing staffers, officials across the Biden administration and Democratic Party officials more broadly expressed frustration to CBS News with how the White House has explained to the general public the discovery of documents with classified markings at President Biden's former office and his home in Delaware.

Those who spoke to CBS News, who were granted anonymity to speak frankly about the situation and not upset their professional relationships, believe the decision not to disclose the discovery of the documents sooner undercuts the president's precious vows of transparency and professional management of the government.

And they are concerned that, with a special counsel investigation now underway, the White House will be severely limited in what it can say, making it unable to confirm even basic details.

 

Read more here:  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-documents-classified-white-house-response-democrats/

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

Not called "Tricky Joe" for nothing...he works hard to earn it every day.

 

West Wing staffers, officials across the Biden administration and Democratic Party officials...expressed frustration to CBS News with how the White House has explained to the general public the discovery of documents with classified markings at President Biden's former office and his home in Delaware.

 

Those who spoke to CBS News...believe the decision not to disclose the discovery of the documents sooner undercuts the president's precious vows of transparency and professional management of the government.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-documents-classified-white-house-response-democrats/

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Pattaya Spotter

[Pattaya Spotter]

15 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

That depends when you ask him because he never lies does he.

 

Former President Donald Trump argued in a court filing Wednesday that the National Archives should have expected to find classified material among the 15 boxes Trump turned over in January from Mar-a-Lago because they were presidential records.

 

Beside which the classification has no bearing on the charges specified in the search warrant.

 

Donald Trump is under criminal investigation for potential violations of the Espionage Act and additional statutes relating to obstruction of justice and destroying federal government records

 

The Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. administration alledges that classified documents were kept at MAL and that's all it is...an allegation; and in fact no criminal complaint has been filed formally making these allegations. Contrast this with Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. and his administration admitting to criminal conduct in keeping classified government documents in two separate locations (but the garage door was locked). I will keep to the facts and refer to the "classified" MAL documents as "allegedly" found whereas the Biden residence and "unthink tank" classified documents were found.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. administration alledges that classified documents were kept at MAL and that's all it is...an allegation; and in fact no criminal complaint has been filed formally making these allegations. Contrast this with Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. and his administration admitting to criminal conduct in keeping classified government documents in two separate locations (but the garage door was locked). I will keep to the facts and refer to the "classified" MAL documents as "allegedly" found whereas the Biden residence and "unthink tank" classified documents were found.

Classified documents where found at MAL.

 

The fact that Trump claims to have magically declassified those documents does not detract from that fact.

 

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

The Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. administration alledges that classified documents were kept at MAL and that's all it is...an allegation; and in fact no criminal complaint has been filed formally making these allegations. Contrast this with Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. and his administration admitting to criminal conduct in keeping classified government documents in two separate locations (but the garage door was locked). I will keep to the facts and refer to the "classified" MAL documents as "allegedly" found whereas the Biden residence and "unthink tank" classified documents were found.

The Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. administration alledges that classified documents were kept at MAL and that's all it is...an allegation; and in fact no criminal complaint has been filed formally making these allegations.

 

Trump admitted they were classified documents in an August court filing, then changed his mind at a later date in Sept.

 

You've ignored the content of my post and links to the facts entirely. Pointless further discussions with you.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

No evidence is necessary...it's his Justice Department and Attorney General and he sicked them on a political rival and likely 2024 presidential challenger.

Translation:  You have no evidence, it's just what you want to believe.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

No need for abusive comments. You seem confused by a person(biden in this case) being "involved" with the raid while the newspaper link i provided above showed he "at least enabled" the raid. Involved vs enabled.

 In my understanding of the English language if somebody "enables" something it automatically makes them at least somewhat "involved" in it.

 At any rate the official democrat narrative that Biden was not aware of the MAL raid has been debunked.

Really?  You reply to my post with "so why lie and claim no knowledge then??" and now you are offended by abusive language?

 

More important, you are wrong again.  Read your source.  The words "enabled", "involved", or any other words suggesting Biden was involved in the decision to conduct the investigation or execute the search warrant never appear.  https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/biden-denies-advance-knowledge-of-fbi-raid-on-trumps-mar-a-lago-home/2668784

 

In fact, all that is said about Biden is in the first three short paragraphs, and they don't in any way suggest Biden was involved.

 

So again, are you lying or do you have reading comprehension problems?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your point makes a distinction between it being "allegedly being found" in MAL and "found" at Biden's residence. That sets your false claim for the remainder of your reply.

 

However I leave it up to the experts:

 

"Given its nature, any mishandling of classified material raises serious concerns, but such incidents are not uncommon and routinely handled through administrative proceedings, said Mark Zaid, an attorney focusing on national security law.

"A thorough factual investigation will be in everyone's interests and presumably that will help identify whether any individual(s) are culpable," Zaid told VOA in an email. "At this point, there does not seem to be any evidence that President Biden had any knowledge or involvement with the records in question, but we need to wait to learn more."

 

Matthew Miller, a former Justice Department spokesperson during the Obama administration, tweeted, “Worth noting what former government officials have said since Mar a Lago raid: classified docs get mistakenly removed from government facilities fairly frequently. You report it, turn in the docs, the government does a damage assessment, and that is the end of it.”

“OR…you cover it up, lie about it repeatedly to the government, and force them to raid your premises to retrieve the docs (ie act like a sociopath), in which case you can expect a criminal charge,” Miller added.

https://www.wane.com/news/classified-documents-found-from-bidens-time-as-vp-white-house-cooperating-with-doj/amp/

Pattaya Spotter likes to invent rules as he goes.  He invented the rule that intent was not necessary for mishandling classified to be a crime.  When I corrected him he challenged me with two sources that confirmed that I was correct, not him.  Since then he's dropped the "intent is not necessary" claim and is inventing new rules.

 

Below is the sequence of posts that I refer to.

19 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Intent is not an element of the crime of mishandling classified government  documents, mere possession of same is enough for conviction.

 

17 hours ago, heybruce said:

Really?  Can you give us a single example of someone being charged and prosecuted for inadvertent handling of classified in the United States?

 

It's a rhetorical question; you can't. 

 

17 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Ever heard of Google...so you can't gaslight people anymore because the internet never forgets.

 

Federal officials are saying little so far about Monday’s FBI search of former President Donald Trump’s home in Mar-a-Lago...While such a search of a former U.S. president’s residence would appear to be unprecedented, investigations into the removal or unlawful retention of classified information is not.

 

https://www.voanews.com/a/fbi-justice-department-routinely-prosecute-misuse-of-classified-documents/6694887.html

 

Past cases with classified papers show legal risk for Trump, experts say 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/22/trump-classified-prosecutions-mar-a-lago/

 

Of course you can bet your last dollar the Washington Post is sorry they wrote the article above as it was published when they thought only their nemesis, Donald Trump, would be affected. Now that their hero, Joseph Robinette Biden Jr., is in the crosshairs for doing the same thing they don't know how to spin it to American people anymore.

 

16 hours ago, heybruce said:

Ever heard of reading your own sources?  Every example given involved the knowing and intentional misuse of classified information.  Your Washington Post source states:

 

"The criteria for prosecuting people who improperly handle classified documents are clear: Prosecutors must prove a person deliberately flouted rules for how to store the material securely, while knowing it was classified or secret national defense information."

 

All you've done is support my post that no one has ever been charged and prosecuted for inadvertent mishandling of classified.

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Translation:  You have no evidence, it's just what you want to believe.

Only the evidence of my own eyes.

[Pattaya Spotter]

You can't make this stuff up!

 

On Thursday...Biden was asked...about the second set of classified documents found in his possession.

 

"I'm gonna get a chance to speak on all of this...by the way my corvette's in a locked garage, okay? "But people know I take classified documents and classified materials seriously."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-defends-storing-classified-documents-garage-locked-1773372

Edited January 15, 2023 by Pattaya Spotter

[billd766]

13 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Some of the numbers 0 to 9 will be among them, and that's a fact.

Close but no cigar.

[billd766]

6 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

what is this, the 3rd or 4th stash of classified documents that biden has squirrelled away in unsecure locations? Absolutely disgusting. The guy thought he could do whatever he wanted and knew the corrupt govt and media would cover for him and make any problems disappear. Can't understand why SWAT are not raiding every biden family member property and make sure America's secrets are back in safe hands.

 

"More classified material found at Joe Biden's Delaware home

The six pages found in Mr Biden's home this week are in addition to documents found in Mr Biden's garage in December and at his former offices at the Penn Biden Center in November."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64275373

And how many documents were found at Trump's place at Mar-A-Lago after repeated requests and denials from Trump and his lawyers and only then after a search warrant was served on him by the FBI at the request of the DoJ?

 

Yet he is still bleating on about it.

 

Quote from your post "Can't understand why SWAT are not raiding every biden family member property and make sure America's secrets are back in safe hands".

 

Now here I agree with you on the proviso that ex-president Trump gets exactly the same treatment.

 

That means EVERY building, hotel, resort and office that the entire Trump family have ever used, world wide whilst ex-president Trump was in power.

 

After all, that would be equal treatment and entirely fair, would it not?

Edited January 15, 2023 by billd766
added extra text

[Hanaguma]

You have to remember also that Joe Biden has a long and storied history of lying and plagiarism, dating back nearly 40 years of his public life. From cribbing speeches from British politicians to claiming to have finished in the top half of his law school class, ol' Joe has a gift for the malarkey. 

 

So no surprise that people aren't simply taking him at his word in this case. Particularly when coupled with his obvious declining mental abilities and cognitive skills. 

[billd766]

5 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Any supporting evidence for that false claim?

 

"The official line spun by the White House is that President Joe Biden and his staff had no clue Attorney General Merrick Garland had authorized the armed FBI raid on ex-Prez Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home until after it actually happened. 

But it turns out they at least enabled and knew about the ongoing investigation."

https://nypost.com/2022/08/23/what-did-biden-really-know-about-the-drive-to-raid-mar-a-lago/

quote "Any supporting evidence for that false claim?"

 

Do YOU have any supporting evidence that claim is false?

[candide]

4 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

No evidence is necessary...it's his Justice Department and Attorney General and he sicked them on a political rival and likely 2024 presidential challenger.

Lol! Trump himself signed a law in 2018 making it a felony, giving a clear signal to the DOJ at that time. Garland is actually following Trumps policy! ????

[riclag]

4 hours ago, metisdead said:

White House's response to Biden documents frustrates Democrats inside and outside the West Wing

 

Washington — Over the course of the week, West Wing staffers, officials across the Biden administration and Democratic Party officials more broadly expressed frustration to CBS News with how the White House has explained to the general public the discovery of documents with classified markings at President Biden's former office and his home in Delaware.

Those who spoke to CBS News, who were granted anonymity to speak frankly about the situation and not upset their professional relationships, believe the decision not to disclose the discovery of the documents sooner undercuts the president's precious vows of transparency and professional management of the government.

And they are concerned that, with a special counsel investigation now underway, the White House will be severely limited in what it can say, making it unable to confirm even basic details.

 

Read more here:  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-documents-classified-white-house-response-democrats/

 

This is the huge issue in the entire scandal.

The suppression of the events !

 

“the decision not to disclose the discovery of the documents sooner undercuts the president's precious vows of transparency and professional management of the government.”

 Also frustrating,with committee hearings coming up on the scandal it will be almost impossible for Gop lawmakers to extract answers from witnesses 

because its a on going investigation.

 

“And they are concerned that, with a special counsel investigation now underway, the White House will be severely limited in what it can say, making it unable to confirm even basic details”.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by riclag

[ozimoron]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The documents have not yet been proven to be classified, or at least we have not been informed as yet if they were in fact classified. Trump claimed that he declassified them and we are still waiting on a ruling as regards that.

 

Comprehension problem?

Do you know what "is the excuse going to be" means? 

Hint- it's a suggestion, not a fact.

I posted a link that the prosecutors were apparently only looking at obstruction charges for Trump in relation to the documents. It was in reply to you. Why do you keep focussing on whether the documents were declassified or not when it seems that detail is an irrelevant right wing talking point? You haven't used the word "obstruction" even once in your posts that I recall reading.

[candide]

10 minutes ago, riclag said:

This is the huge issue in the entire scandal.

The suppression of the events !

 

“the decision not to disclose the discovery of the documents sooner undercuts the president's precious vows of transparency and professional management of the government.”

 Also frustrating,with committee hearings coming up on the scandal it will be almost impossible for Gop lawmakers to extract answers from witnesses 

because its a on going investigation.

 

“And they are concerned that, with a special counsel investigation now underway, the White House will be severely limited in what it can say, making it unable to confirm even basic details”.

 

 

MAGA folks are funny! They have been ranting for days, asking for a special counsel to be appointed! And after that, they now complain it may prevent their committee to easily spread its propaganda! It cannot be invented!

[metisdead]

A post with trolling comments about drinking Kool Aid has been removed.

 

An off topic trolling post has been removed.

Edited January 15, 2023 by metisdead

[Saanim]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

You have to remember also that Joe Biden has a long and storied history of lying and plagiarism, dating back nearly 40 years of his public life. From cribbing speeches from British politicians to claiming to have finished in the top half of his law school class, ol' Joe has a gift for the malarkey. 

 

So no surprise that people aren't simply taking him at his word in this case. Particularly when coupled with his obvious declining mental abilities and cognitive skills. 

But after all, they (the people) honoured him with their trust, that's why so many elected him, didn't they? 

[dotcalm]

All the facts and details about the Biden document scandal are those that Biden's lawyers want you to know, and that won't include much transparency or truth. Biden's WH and lawyers are the only sources of information details of this serious breach of security laws. But Biden's WH and lawyers are transparent, or not.

 

Unless Biden's personal attorneys who discovered and searched for the classified material lawyers had security clearances they too are in violation of national security laws and mishandling classified information.

So, docs first uncovered November 2, 2022 but the lawyers didn't search until January 9, 2023. Very suspicious and why was this not reported earlier, say on Nov 2/2022? Ah, election was a a few days later. I got it.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, dotcalm said:

All the facts and details about the Biden document scandal are those that Biden's lawyers want you to know, and that won't include much transparency or truth. Biden's WH and lawyers are the only sources of information details of this serious breach of security laws. But Biden's WH and lawyers are transparent, or not.

 

Unless Biden's personal attorneys who discovered and searched for the classified material lawyers had security clearances they too are in violation of national security laws and mishandling classified information.

So, docs first uncovered November 2, 2022 but the lawyers didn't search until January 9, 2023. Very suspicious and why was this not reported earlier, say on Nov 2/2022? Ah, election was a a few days later. I got it.

Wrong, the current facts and details are all the the appointed Special Council wants us to know. The special council that the republican party were demanding. Hence now we all have to wait for official news from him.

 

As for the extra pages found:

“Because I have a security clearance, I went to Wilmington Thursday evening to facilitate providing the document the President’s personal counsel found on Wednesday to the Justice Department,” Sauber said.

 

 

[dotcalm]

On 1/10/2023 at 11:52 PM, vandeventer said:

At least Trump had two secret service guards standing by his documents. Biden forgot he even had them

Those docs were in a residence know to be occupied by Hunter Biden, who probably provided outstanding security despite suffering from crack cocaine addiction.

Emails suggest Hunter Biden had access to garage where president kept classified docs, Corvette

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/emails-suggest-hunter-biden-had-access-garage-where-joe-kept-classified-docs-corvette

 

Biden is in it up to his eyeballs and this should get more interesting by the day.

[dotcalm]

46 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Wrong, the current facts and details are all the the appointed Special Council wants us to know.

There has been no reporting except from the WH, and AG Garland statements to conduct a preliminary investigation and determine whether a special counsel (assigned to US attorney J Lausch)  was necessary and then announcing he's appointing special counsel to investigate Biden after it was reported that Biden's lawyers uncovered classified documents in Biden's UPenn Center office.

 

So it follows the only comments about Bidens unlawful possession and mishandling of classified material in violation of national security laws  are those from Biden's WH which everyone should know are not known for transparency and from his personal lawyers who are obviously biased.

Edited January 15, 2023 by dotcalm

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, dotcalm said:

There has been no reporting except from the WH, and AG Garland statements to conduct a preliminary investigation and determine whether a special counsel (assigned to US attorney J Lausch)  was necessary and then announcing he's appointing special counsel to investigate Biden after it was reported that Biden's lawyers uncovered classified documents in Biden's UPenn Center office.

 

So it follows the only comments about Bidens unlawful possession and mishandling of classified material in violation of national security laws  are those from Biden's WH which everyone should know are liars  and personal lawyers who are obviously biased.

So it follows the only comments about Bidens unlawful possession and mishandling of classified material in violation of national security laws  are those from Biden's WH which everyone should know are liars  and personal lawyers who are obviously biased.

 

That's where your argument falls flat on its face............

 

Like I already said, we now have to wait for official reports from source, ie Special Council. Biden has already expressed his wish to talk in more detail but can't.

 

He does not have an account on Truth Social ranting that the FBI planted it.......lol

[candide]

18 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

There has been no reporting except from the WH, and AG Garland statements to conduct a preliminary investigation and determine whether a special counsel (assigned to US attorney J Lausch)  was necessary and then announcing he's appointing special counsel to investigate Biden after it was reported that Biden's lawyers uncovered classified documents in Biden's UPenn Center office.

 

So it follows the only comments about Bidens unlawful possession and mishandling of classified material in violation of national security laws  are those from Biden's WH which everyone should know are not known for transparency and from his personal lawyers who are obviously biased.

Faultless behaviour from Biden. He lets the DOJ investigate without interfering. More details will be known later from the DOJ.

What a contrat with Trump

[dotcalm]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

That's where your argument falls flat on its face............

Source: White House's misleading statements reinforced the need for a special counsel

"But one Justice official said the White House’s public statements earlier this week, offering an incomplete narrative about the classified documents from Biden’s time as vice president, reinforced the need for a special counsel.

The misleading statements created the impression that Biden’s team had something to hide, the official said."

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/garland-attorney-general-statement-01-12-23/h_36dab2bcc592480cede99af94cff7f23

[dotcalm]

1 hour ago, Screaming said:

It seems the authorities keep finding more and more classified documents. It seems old sleepy Joe is a classified documents hoarde

The question is what did he do with these classified records?

 

LoL, Biden likely thinks "I stole the docs but I didn't read them, so no crime here", or so he hopes.