PEA Visit

[MJCM]

If we are getting a new Meter I couldn't care less what SWMBO says but then a 15kW ESS will be on order (will give us approx 9kW (max charge 80% max discharge 20%) of usable energy) that should make a big dent in the BILL as well (as well as in my Bank account

 

[NorthernRyland]

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

With an ROI of up to 33%, not fitting Grid-Tied solar power is plain stupid.

 

How are you supposed to reason about this? I think a solar system that can run a standard house in this climate is like 400k right? My electric bills are about 2k/month during the summer and can be under 1k in the winter so doesn't it take like 20 years until they pay for themselves?

[MJCM]

2 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

How are you supposed to reason about this? I think a solar system that can run a standard house in this climate is like 400k right? My electric bills are about 2k/month during the summer and can be under 1k in the winter so doesn't it take like 20 years until they pay for themselves?

Have a look in this thread

 

 

Approx 450k (he doesn't get money from PEA for excess energy, but he also can't export (got an electronic meter))

 

 

[LogicThai]

1 minute ago, NorthernRyland said:

How are you supposed to reason about this? I think a solar system that can run a standard house in this climate is like 400k right? My electric bills are about 2k/month during the summer and can be under 1k in the winter so doesn't it take like 20 years until they pay for themselves?

Obviously, payback time depends on your usage of electricity. When I am home (rarely nowadays), a typical electricity bill can be about 3.5k, when I am not, it drops to 1.5k. At our villa in Koh Samui, which is in a residence, we are charged 7 baht a KwH. Electricity bills can easily reach 7-8k, with aircon at full blast, the pool pump etc. In that setup, a solar installation would have a payback of 3 years. Also, many people report that when then get "free" electric power, they tend to change their behaviour and use considerably more or it. And one can switch to all-electric. No more gas stove, get an electric bike or even an EV. Which will improve payback too in a way, by allowing a new lifestyle.

[JBChiangRai]

7 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

How are you supposed to reason about this? I think a solar system that can run a standard house in this climate is like 400k right? My electric bills are about 2k/month during the summer and can be under 1k in the winter so doesn't it take like 20 years until they pay for themselves?

In my last house I paid 130k for 22 panels and a 6Kw grid-tied inverter, I averaged 29 units a day at 4 baht per unit which is 41,000 baht per year, 3 years is 120,000 baht, I could have installed it for less with what I learned during the process.

[Crossy]

Let's do a quick and dirty calculation for a simple grid-tie system that's DIY installed.

 

Your 2,000 Baht power bill would be about 450kWh so about 15kWh per day.

 

A 340W panel will give you about 1.2kWh per day so you're looking at 12 panels = 4,000W system.

 

Panels are around 3,400 Baht a pop = 41,000 Baht, a 4kW grid-tie inverter around 11,000 Baht. Add 10k for installation bit n bobs and you're gold for <65k.

[JBChiangRai]

My current house is generating an ROI at 20%.  Blame that on installing 28.8KwHr's of LFP batteries, and doubling up on inverters because the Hybrid inverters were terrible at exporting.

[KhunLA]

37 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

How are you supposed to reason about this? I think a solar system that can run a standard house in this climate is like 400k right? My electric bills are about 2k/month during the summer and can be under 1k in the winter so doesn't it take like 20 years until they pay for themselves?

Depends on the system.  Ours cost 445k installed, and if DIY, could knock 50 or 75k off, maybe.  Our PEA bills were 3-3500k a month, for 600-700kWh, at our rental, and petrol about 3k a month, so if they were to hold steady, about 6 yr ROI

 

Due to new house build, having a hard time using 450-500kWh a month now.  Today is a buffer day, as O&A yesterday, so car is still charging.  A wee bit yesterday just before sunset, took ESSs down to 60% overnight, and charging EV since 0630, still got couple hours, and should be done.

 

Just the ESSs & EV will be 40kWh, if car finishes today.  If that was daily use, ROI would be real quick.   At present, since midnight;

produced 35kWh

consumed 30kWh

 

Doubt if EV will finish, or shall I say, I'll allow it to finish, as cloudy westward, and was even a chance of rain today.  So think production will drop now. We'll need 6kWh for overnight, which actually starts soon if cloudy enough, production vs consumption goes in the negative.

Edited February 4, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

30 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

How are you supposed to reason about this?

Really does depend on need & usage.  If not home during the day, and want to be 'off' grid at night, then that's going to require ESSs, at about 100k for 10kWh and more than enough.    Although, that's on top of the cost of inverter & panels for on grid/tie in system.  That's where is starts getting expensive.

 

But if home during the day and running ACs a lot, than that usage, no ESSs  for night, the system would be inexpensive, using grid overnight.   Maybe 15kWh during day, 5 or 6 overnight, which is about our usage now, without the EV.  That's abusing the AC.

 

You don't seem to use much electric, relative to us, with your low bills.  If mostly daytime, then your ROI would be quick, and 5kWh system aren't expensive.

 

If both out during the day, and most of your usage is a night, then that raises the cost of the system, and length of time for ROI.  

Edited February 4, 2023 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

I think the take away from this thread will be, IF having low usage for PEA or MEA, don't be surprised if you get visit to ask IF you have solar, along with a new digital meter.

 

When they gave us our new meter, for new house build, they asked, 'do you have solar'  and you can not see the panels from the soi or anywhere approaching the house, as roof has very little pitch to it.

 

Whether that's the new standard question to ask with new meter install, or they guessed, or simply knew from the neighborhood chit chat, unknown.

300-400-500kWh bills dropping to <100kWh bills, doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out what's going on.

 

Wife asked about TOU meter and was told also at that time, all new meters would be digital.  11 new constructions in last 6 months, in the neighborhood, an they all have digital meters.

 

Anyone thinking about solar, whether having old spin back meter or not, should expect a new digital in the future.   Hopefully later than sooner, but spring for the bit of extra money, and get a hybrid inverter.  May want for future upgrade.

[terryq]

3 hours ago, MJCM said:

I tend to agree, but they taking pictures of our Solar Panels (which are from the road approx 60-80 meters) and to access (sorry not access but view) them (side of the house) you have to go down a "hill" and then walk through rice fields with grass approx 50 centimetres high, that got us a bit worried.

Or they used a drone.

 

Our local PEA office has a least one.

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

How are you supposed to reason about this? I think a solar system that can run a standard house in this climate is like 400k right? My electric bills are about 2k/month during the summer and can be under 1k in the winter so doesn't it take like 20 years until they pay for themselves?

My bills were a little lower than yours (but not by much).

I spent 100k and that's 80% of my household electricity usage covered.

9x 340w panels (30kbht), 1x 5kW hybrid inverter (13kbht), 6kWhr of batteries (50kbht).

Aircon, shower heaters, kitchen appliances still on the grid.

 

At 5bht/unit that's 20,000 units to generate before I break even.

9 units a day = 2222 days = 6 years.

And no power cuts for my house during that time either.

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by BritManToo

[Jai Dee]

An off-topic post has been removed.

 

Please do not derail other people's topics... you are welcome to start a new topic of your own.

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

Let's do a quick and dirty calculation for a simple grid-tie system that's DIY installed.

 

Your 2,000 Baht power bill would be about 450kWh so about 15kWh per day.

 

A 340W panel will give you about 1.2kWh per day so you're looking at 12 panels = 4,000W system.

 

Panels are around 3,400 Baht a pop = 41,000 Baht, a 4kW grid-tie inverter around 11,000 Baht. Add 10k for installation bit n bobs and you're gold for <65k.

sorry, but I believe there is a missing piece.

 

you must add a pricey ESS for the night hours if you want to cover the 24 hour usage.

 

installing just panels to cover daytime use is another alternative. for example, 340 watts should

be adequate for a day's worth of 8 kwh utilization from about 7 panels, the other 7 kwh useing PEA.

[Crossy]

10 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

sorry, but I believe there is a missing piece.

 

"Let's do a quick and dirty calculation for a simple grid-tie system that's DIY installed."

 

As others have noted it's very much dependent upon usage patterns.

 

[MJCM]

49 minutes ago, terryq said:

Or they used a drone.

 

Our local PEA office has a least one.

 

A drone to check that we have Solar Panels? (They can do that via Google Maps Sat View)

 

May I ask, why If the local PEA has a drone, did 2 guys walk all the way from the road to where the panels are visible and take some pictures of the Panels

Edited February 4, 2023 by MJCM

[Encid]

50 minutes ago, MJCM said:

May I ask, why If the local PEA has a drone, did 2 guys walk all the way from the road to where the panels are visible and take some pictures of the Panels

What kind of camera?

Phone camera or DSLR with a telephoto lens so they can determine the make, model, wattage, and date of birth of your panels?

 

Just kidding... 

 

And curious...

[The Fugitive]

Could it be that the PEA are conducting an investigation into illegal abstraction? They know how many kWh are being billed to consumers and how many are passing through their substations. What they don't know is how many kWh's PV systems are feeding into the grid. Maybe the guys are under instruction to obtain as many photographs as possible for the purpose of counting the number of panels?

[MJCM]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

What kind of camera?

Phone camera or DSLR with a telephoto lens so they can determine the make, model, wattage, and date of birth of your panels?

 

Just kidding... 

 

And curious...

Just a simple camera phone.. Sorry to disappoint you ????

[MJCM]

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

Could it be that the PEA are conducting an investigation into illegal abstraction? They know how many kWh are being billed to consumers and how many are passing through their substations. What they don't know is how many kWh's PV systems are feeding into the grid. Maybe the guys are under instruction to obtain as many photographs as possible for the purpose of counting the number of panels?

Why do it the hard way? They can do it with Google Maps Sat view, and my guess they will have access to more detailed pictures then we have. 

[In the jungle]

Abstraction of electricity where I live in redneck country is very common.

 

Just about any event such as a wedding or funeral a guy is hired who turns up with marquees, plastic chairs and tables.  They usually bring enough lighting to light up a football stadium and they power it all by illegally connecting to the grid upstream of the property owner's meter.

 

Many market traders power their market stalls in a similar manner.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by In the jungle

[Elkski]

Sad to hear the days without digital meters is in the horizon in Thailand.   And the 1:1 credit in all the World would progress solar so much.    You guys probably know how the power companies in the US have cried so much the payback rates are so low.   

[The Fugitive]

2 hours ago, MJCM said:

Why do it the hard way? They can do it with Google Maps Sat view, and my guess they will have access to more detailed pictures then we have. 

When meter interference is suspected a physical visit is essential. You check that the seals are intact, for holes drilled in the side of the meter to prevent the disk rotating and then there is the legendary 'Liverpool Loop'. I am guessing that when they are satisfied there has been no interference and as they are already at the premises, it would make sense to obtain as many photographs of your PV panels as possible for calculation purposes?

[JBChiangRai]

In the UK, they are a lot cleverer (surprise, surprise).  They install meters with every transformer and periodically check that the meter reading at the transformer matches the sum of the meters of the houses it supplies. Sometimes one meter for every 30 houses.

 

If it doesn't, they start looking at who is using more power than they are paying for.

[JAS21]

Well they don’t need a drone to see our panels and the electric meter is on the post …maybe ‘buy’ a few extra kWhrs from MEA this month ….

[Crossy]

Looks like Google's "satellite" has been busy.

 

Chez Jas21

 

[MJCM]

9 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

it would make sense to obtain as many photographs of your PV panels as possible for calculation purposes?

Then we are lucky (maybe). Why? Because from that Angle the guys were looking they only can see the Panels on the Wall and NOT the panels near the House.

 

So for them we only have 3 panels

[JAS21]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Looks like Google's "satellite" has been busy.

 

Chez Jas21

 

That was quick …only installed in Sept.

[MJCM]

4 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

That was quick …only installed in Sept.

The picture they have of our house is from this year (2023) because the neighbours house (to replace the old one) they only have started building this approx 1 month ago and the roof is only on since 2-3 weeks and that is already in the Image.

[In the jungle]

16 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I think the take away from this thread will be, IF having low usage for PEA or MEA, don't be surprised if you get visit to ask IF you have solar, along with a new digital meter.

 

When they gave us our new meter, for new house build, they asked, 'do you have solar'  and you can not see the panels from the soi or anywhere approaching the house, as roof has very little pitch to it.

 

Whether that's the new standard question to ask with new meter install, or they guessed, or simply knew from the neighborhood chit chat, unknown.

300-400-500kWh bills dropping to <100kWh bills, doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out what's going on.

 

Wife asked about TOU meter and was told also at that time, all new meters would be digital.  11 new constructions in last 6 months, in the neighborhood, an they all have digital meters.

 

Anyone thinking about solar, whether having old spin back meter or not, should expect a new digital in the future.   Hopefully later than sooner, but spring for the bit of extra money, and get a hybrid inverter.  May want for future upgrade.

We do not have solar but I am considering installing a grid tie system next year.

 

On the subject of meters we had a new meter fitted in the last week.  This was done at the initiative of PEA in Chumphon as they said the old meter was faulty.  I had not noticed any problem.  The new meter is of the spinning top variety so we got lucky I guess.