Do I go on a Diet or follow this Expat advice .

[1FinickyOne]

34 minutes ago, Hummin said:

As said, dicipline and a bit structure in life, doesnt hurt anyone, but it seems for many, it is difficult! 

 

Cant cure laziness unless the reward is big enough.

 

Often when people get knife on the troat, they start doing something. It is quite remarkable, some people need a dr to tell them they will die soon if they do not change, often after a decade with bad health and problems. First then they react, at least some I personally know, and also articles I have seen and read.

I don't personally have a sugar addiction and there are monk fruit sugars which though expensive surely do the trick... one of many problems is that they say that sugar is more addictive than opioids. Another problem is that it is in near everything in the supermarket - - further exacerbated by deceptive labelling manufacturers... and then, not all people are the same - - 

 

I was skinny as a rail before I was 30 - my eating habits were formed then, and anything was ok and as much as you want... then I started putting on weight - just a little - 2 lbs a year... but 25 years later, which goes by all too quickly, and you are +50 lbs... and it does not come off easy... 

[habuspasha]

On 2/7/2023 at 10:52 AM, tomgreen said:

A big thanks to every one for your input and advice . I was hoping that some one could make a comment on the main fact that the majority of those expats in their early 70s seem to be making which was when your reach the ripe old age of say 70 , any future real attempt to alter your life style through a diet or other method is going to be a complete waste of time .

 

Those expats sitting around the table were it seems convinced that when some one reaches that point in their life ( 70 years old or more ) then the most rewarding path to take would not be to start a diet in the hope that doing so may increase their life span by a few months , but to throw the diet sheet in the dustbin and just eat , drink and be merry until their final day arrives.

 

I wonder if there’s any actual long term medical evidence that may prove without a doubt that in fact if you are 70 years or older , going on a diet or life style change will not make much difference when it comes to extending your actual life span. So you should just appreciate your remaining years and enjoy your food and drink to the fullest .

 

 

 

Study A = In this study the 70 year old and over people followed a healthy life style including following a diet plan until their final day arrived .

 

Study B = In this study the 70 year old and over people were not on diets or planned healthy life style changes , they were allowed to eat and drink what ever the wanted until their final day arrived .

 

 

I wonder out of A & B , which study contained the highest number of people who lived the longest .

 

 

 

I was 70, ten years ago.  I did not not eat well or exercise.  I weighed 100 pounds.  Today I weigh 60 pounds, exercise almost daily and have a gorgeous and supportive Thai "wife" who is 40 years my junior.  With the aid of intermittent fasting and life extension meds, I expect we will be together for another 40 years.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I don't personally have a sugar addiction and there are monk fruit sugars which though expensive surely do the trick... one of many problems is that they say that sugar is more addictive than opioids. Another problem is that it is in near everything in the supermarket - - further exacerbated by deceptive labelling manufacturers... and then, not all people are the same - - 

 

I was skinny as a rail before I was 30 - my eating habits were formed then, and anything was ok and as much as you want... then I started putting on weight - just a little - 2 lbs a year... but 25 years later, which goes by all too quickly, and you are +50 lbs... and it does not come off easy... 

Yes, all you say is the truth, and age means less activity, less worries for some, and as you say, sugar is in everything, or replacement of sugar that in my opinion is worse to stimulate essential metabolism in our body. 

 

As we get older, we have to change what we eat and how we eat. 

[Hummin]

37 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I did change, so what are you on about? I gave up sugar as much as possible which was and still is a battle.

I see no mental health improvement from losing over 10 kg and back to weight in 1990s when I really was fit.

To be honest I'd rather be fatter and able to enjoy sugary food than live without. I'm never going to get laid by an attractive woman again so why would I care anyway?

 

BTW I was never clinically obese, just overweight.

I got hooked up in your statement, where you said you had given up women, which I replied you did not see any reward by doing more for yourselves. 

 

 

[terryq]

13 minutes ago, habuspasha said:

I was 70, ten years ago.  I did not not eat well or exercise.  I weighed 100 pounds.  Today I weigh 60 pounds, exercise almost daily and have a gorgeous and supportive Thai "wife" who is 40 years my junior.  With the aid of intermittent fasting and life extension meds, I expect we will be together for another 40 years.

If you think that you weigh 60 pounds then I suggest you change your diet as the one you are on is confusing your brain !

 

[xtrnuno41]

How old you want to get? How grumpy you want to be?

76 and 1m7 , its ok for your age though?

I see many people die in their eighties. It is a fact of life, you, me , others will die.

 

Go find a swimming pool and swim everyday for an hour! And i mean really swim, not puddling around. You train all your muscle and grow physical.

There are so many diets, which one you want? Keto diet, no carbs anymore. Fat diet, only eat fat meat and nothing else. Diet eating all day, everything but very little portions.

No matter what you choose, you have to adapt in your new lifestyle.

 

They say, you only live once, so in what way, being happy or getting old and leave all you love to eat and feel miserable until you are finally 101? I agree with your mates, but you could do some for instance swimming, keeping smooth and burning food.

OK , but then dont start to eat more, because you did your swimming, keep in your food rhythm.

[Jingthing]

10 hours ago, coconuts said:

calories in versus calories out for weight loss . 

energy has to come from somewhere  for you to walk, talk , breathe , pumping the heart with blood , scratching your head , thinking etc . 

 

 

you can eat all the healthy foods , nuts , salmon, brown rice, salads , but if you eat more calories than you are expending each day you will gain weight. 

 

you could eat nothing but deep fried chicken and lose weight , so long as you are expending more energy than you take in

 

google "john cisna teacher weight loss " 

 

food is the main source of energy for the body 

if food is scarce the body will use it's reserves ( fat and muscle ) for energy ( when you are on a diet )

when fat is depleted it will start eating itself to preserve life ( muscle and tissue ) 

 

to keep as much muscle as you can on a diet it is wise to do some form of resistance training and to eat a high protein diet .

 

you need to be in a calorie deficit which you create by eating less, exercising more ( swimming ,running , walking etc ) or both . track the calories you consume and be under your maintenance figure by about 500 calories a day . walk 4 times a week for 30 minutes to an hour . you could easily lose 1 - 2 pound a week . i lost 10 kg doing this and drinking beers every weekend , going to restaurants etc 

 

go on a bodybuilding forum and you will receive loads of good advice on how to do it

 

good luck 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nope.

You're broadcasting long ago debunked assumptions about calories. 

 

 

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/theres-no-sugar-coating-it-all-calories-are-not-created-equal-2016110410602

 

 

There’s no sugar-coating it: All calories are not created equal

 

 

" Looking only at calories ignores the metabolic effects of each calorie; the source of the calorie changes how you digest it and how you retrieve energy from it. "

[coconuts]

"energy can neither be created nor destroyed" 

 

if you consume too many calories the body stores the excess mainly as fat ( some muscle will be built )

 

if you consume too few calories the body will need to get the energy from somewhere to keep you alive , this comes from fat reserves and/or muscle 

 

no food is inherently fattening ,  it is the excess calories that is consumed that adds the weight to the body and it is far easier to consume more calories from the "bad" foods than the good ones .

 

it is easy to consume 2500 calories ( the average males daily calorie target ) from a tub of ice cream in one sitting  and then be hungry 2 hours later .

 

it's very hard to eat 2500 calories of salad in one sitting .

 

avocado, nuts, salmon etc, contain a lot of calories mainly from "good fats" but will benefit your body greatly compared to eating ice cream . if you eat too much of the good food you will still gain weight . the excess has to go somewhere ( mainly on your belly as fat ) , the deficit has to come from somewhere ( your belly fat )

 

it's pretty simple, find your maintenance calories for the day using an online calculator , be 500 calories below it every day and adjust as the weeks go on . try to consume all your calories from food so you feel full . drinking a can of full sugar coke eats into your daily allowance of calories . just drink water , black coffee or diet sodas . enjoy a few beers on the weekend ( better to drink spirits with diet soda ) . there are about 200 calories in a pint of beer and about 50 in a vodka and soda . walking or any aerobic exercise will improve your fitness and also create more of a deficit 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

56 minutes ago, habuspasha said:

I wonder out of A & B , which study contained the highest number of people who lived the longest .

This is quite an interesting subject - - I would say that I can feel, being over 70, that the quality of life is and will continue to decrease each year... That said, I lost 14 kgs last year and physically I do feel better in that my legs are not as heavy, my balance is better and my mental state of mind is more cheerful.

 

But the real question is about quality vs quantity of life - and this is going to be individual.. losing weight is not easy and 95% of people who do so will eventually gain it back. We seem to be programmed to do so... Most everything packaged or processed has a ton of added sugars, so there is much to forgo and then there is the maybe or maybe not that you will be successful. 

 

If living long is the only goal, then you would go to the extreme of doing whatever you think it takes... I think for many of us, I might prefer fewer years beyond 80 in order to enjoy a meal today... and given how few can keep the weight off - maybe some moderate eating of foods I enjoy, even fruits have sugar content, the fact that it might take an extreme diet to lose more weight - - well, for me, I don't think it is worth it... I am taking it a meal at a time as most meals of fresh unprocessed foods are enjoyable, if the prep work is not. 

 

 

[habuspasha]

1 hour ago, terryq said:

If you think that you weigh 60 pounds then I suggest you change your diet as the one you are on is confusing your brain !

 

Sorry.  I was 200.  Now 160.

[DavisH]

Do you have any health conditions?

Have a compete health check first, including a blood workup and heart checkup. 

If everything is fine, just eat healthful foods and get some exercise every day (or 5 days a week at least). 30 mins a day. I would start here first, before going of a diet. And if you go on a diet, can you maintain it over a long time span? 

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, coconuts said:

if you consume too many calories the body stores the excess mainly as fat ( some muscle will be built )

Begs the question of "too many," actually.

 

2 hours ago, coconuts said:

if you consume too few calories the body will need to get the energy from somewhere to keep you alive , this comes from fat reserves and/or muscle 

One of the usual naive fallacies of CICO theory. CO is a dependent variable. The body doesn't necessarily need to get the same amount of energy, but may just conserve the energy it's now getting. That's what frustrates CICO dieters. Oh, it's the same as you'd do if your financial income were reduced: you'd spend less. So they reduced their calories but don't lose weight. To make matters worse, they remain hungry. Hunger always wins.

 

2 hours ago, coconuts said:

it's pretty simple

Actually, the CICO method isn't simple and that's one reason it usually fails. Here's simple. I noticed this tweet from Elie Jarrouge today:

Eating healthy to lose weight & reverse T2 diabetes & hypertension is simple.

For each meal:

 

Pick a protein
Pick a source of fat (not seed oil)
Pick a vegetable (optional)
Eat until you’re full
Don’t eat again until you get hungry

 

Don’t complicate it.
Google recipes if needed.

   --@ElieJarrougeMD

 

No apps, no calorie counting, no food scales, no hunger, no plans or schedules, no pushing away from the table (we love that), no hours of sweating in the gym. He's sympathetic to keto, but traditional low carb has always emphasized adding in more veggies--so that members don't get their knickers in a twist.

 

As for recipes, thousands of them out there:  https://www.google.com/search?gl=us&hl=en&q=low+carb+diet+menus

 

2 hours ago, coconuts said:

. walking or any aerobic exercise will improve your fitness and also create more of a deficit 

Trivial inconsequential deficit, and you may just get hungrier and eat more, as you've "worked up an appetite."

 

Improving fitness is all to the good, however. It can also be motivating psychologically to improve diet as well.

Edited February 9, 2023 by BigStar

[BigStar]

2 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

We seem to be programmed to do so... Most everything packaged or processed has a ton of added sugars

Who's programmed you? Right, the processed food industry. So that's IT then. Resistance is futile. Pass the chips.

 

2 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I think for many of us, I might prefer fewer years beyond 80 in order to enjoy a meal today... and given how few can keep the weight off - maybe some moderate eating of foods I enjoy

I might would prefer more years beyond 90 to enjoy a meal today and to enjoy it then as well. Besides other stuff. I don't care about all those sheep, 'cept they're drive up the costs of healthcare. 

 

You need to be thinking independently if you want to have a chance of being lean and healthy.

They're not going to tell you how, even if they knew.

      --@Mangan150

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by BigStar

[scubascuba3]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

I repeat- I did NOT eat less. I just gave up sugary drinks, chocolate, cakes, sweet biscuits, the cream buns, etc and things like pizzas and white bread which are easily converted to sugar in the body.

yeah fatty western junk food, most people will lose weight if they drastically reduce that

[nikmar]

Living in Bangkok with the pollution issues, it's all kinda moot anyway. ????

Edited February 9, 2023 by nikmar

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

no idea what my BMI is, not going to pay for a blood test just for this

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

So that's IT then. Resistance is futile. Pass the chips.

Yo - big Star at what? I don't eat chips and never have - just not into it. 

 

And trust me, you have never paid a dime of my healthcare - - and never will. 

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've returned to my weight of 30 years ago, under 90 kg, no idea what my BMI is, not going to pay for a blood test just for this , can shovel about a ton of dirt a day.

Not bad for a bloke of my age, I reckon.

BMI is fairly irrelevant, as it doesn't take into consideration of one's bone or muscle mass.   One size does NOT fit all.

 

Standing in front of a mirror is a better judge of 'your' BMI.   If you can't tell if you are too thin, just right or overweight, you got a few issues to deal with.

[BigStar]

7 hours ago, nglodnig said:

Weight in itself is not an indicator of bad health unless there are other symptoms.

 

Which luckily so far I have none - blood pressure normal, for a start.

Some time ago an old poster had claimed he was so healthy he'd "never been in a hospital." A few posts later, he was patting himself on the back about his low blood pressure and how nothing he ate bothered him.

 

Under questioning, though, it turned out he's not that healthy but rather medicated: Amlodepine 10mg/day, Bestatin, Baby aspirin, Micardis = 20mg. & Doxadozin for BHP. PSA = 5.4. Which, obviously, he'd somehow prescribed for himself. And his TG/HDL ratio was at 3.3, putting him at "moderate risk." That's an important indicator:

 

 

And helps explain the need for blood pressure meds.

 

I've often suggested to a smug member that an oral glucose tolerance test, not FBS or HbA1C, would reveal the real truth about that insulin resistance, which is behind so many chronic diseases. Nobody wants to do that (ignorance is bliss), but the HOMA-IR indicator is pretty good and just requires you add a fasting blood insulin test to your usual blood work. Read about that here: https://labs.selfdecode.com/blog/homa-ir/

 

And do the calculation here:

https://www.mdcalc.com/calc/3120/homa-ir-homeostatic-model-assessment-insulin-resistance

 

About a week ago, I did my annual exhaustive blood work. All turned out well, even optimum; HOMA-IR was .6. 

[1FinickyOne]

44 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

yeah fatty western junk food, most people will lose weight if they drastically reduce that

Yo Kramer, if it were only that easy.... you likely know nothing of body chemistry and genetics... if reducing junk food is your answer, a person w/weight issues will likely still put on weight. I have a friend who is one of the kindest and smartest fellows I know. He is obese. Both of his parents are obese. His kids are obese. And yet, he spends his life trying to help others, he has the fortitude and compassion to do this... and even with all the problems he has had, I hope he takes comfort in the great work he has done... I know of the abuses that he has suffered through mean people... people who don't know the struggles of his life but only judge him by his weight. 

[BigStar]

33 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

I have a friend who is one of the kindest and smartest fellows I know.

I had a couple of obese friends, husband and wife who enabled each other. Great people, large loving family, many friends, and very hospitable towards me personally. When much younger, before they married, she was thin, he even had something of an athletic build. Hard to believe how they changed.

 

It still pi**es me off that they chose to eat themselves into early graves at around age 72, leaving everyone to miss them for the rest of their lives. This, after gov't insurance had paid about a few million taxpayer dollars over the years to keep them alive. At least her grave is up on a hill with a view in the distance of her favorite store: Target. That always makes me smile anyway.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by BigStar

[coconuts]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Nope.

You're broadcasting long ago debunked assumptions about calories. 

 

 

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/theres-no-sugar-coating-it-all-calories-are-not-created-equal-2016110410602

 

 

There’s no sugar-coating it: All calories are not created equal

 

 

" Looking only at calories ignores the metabolic effects of each calorie; the source of the calorie changes how you digest it and how you retrieve energy from it. "

if you are talking about the TEF yes i agree . all foods are not equal , but the most easiest way to explain to someone who wants to lose weight is that they need to be in a calorie deficit.  

[coconuts]

@BigStar Trivial inconsequential deficit, and you may just get hungrier and eat more, as you've "worked up an appetite."

 

eating more is not being on a diet   . you are talking about psychological issues. if in an overall deficit you lose weight .   

 

people who   know roughly what they need to eat a day/week/month to stay at the same weight do so not because they are eating less, they are just eating what they need , no more no less .  walking ,running etc is all factored in .

 

2500 calories of chicken breast is not the same as 2500 calories from carbs , i agree ,  as the body has to use more energy to break down the protein ( about 30 % of the protein eaten is lost i think to digestion ) , but once all of that is calculated you can't lose weight in a surplus or at maintenance .

 

the body can not magically create energy from nothing , it has to come from somewhere . 

[scubascuba3]

3 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Yo Kramer, if it were only that easy.... you likely know nothing of body chemistry and genetics... if reducing junk food is your answer, a person w/weight issues will likely still put on weight. I have a friend who is one of the kindest and smartest fellows I know. He is obese. Both of his parents are obese. His kids are obese. And yet, he spends his life trying to help others, he has the fortitude and compassion to do this... and even with all the problems he has had, I hope he takes comfort in the great work he has done... I know of the abuses that he has suffered through mean people... people who don't know the struggles of his life but only judge him by his weight. 

You're the first person I've heard saying reducing junk food won't help

[save the frogs]

39 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You're the first person I've heard saying reducing junk food won't help

if it were so easy, everyone would have done it a long time ago. 

 

anyone remember this guy?

 

[scubascuba3]

3 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

if it were so easy, everyone would have done it a long time ago. 

 

anyone remember this guy?

 

It is easy if you do the right things 

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, coconuts said:

eating more is not being on a diet

And so my point: exercise may not help with diet, as you were trying to contend.

 

1 hour ago, coconuts said:

ou are talking about psychological issues. if in an overall deficit you lose weight .   

No, the sensation of being hungry after exercise is preeminently physiological. As I noted, deficit is much more complicated than you believe.

 

1 hour ago, coconuts said:

 

people who   know roughly what they need to eat a day/week/month to stay at the same weight do so not because they are eating less, they are just eating what they need , no more no less .  walking ,running etc is all factored in .

But we're talking about people who definitely don't know that, so irrelevant.

 

I don't really know that myself. Being low carb, I just eat till I'm full.

 

1 hour ago, coconuts said:

once all of that is calculated you can't lose weight in a surplus or at maintenance .

You don't really understand that the "calculation" is a moving target and much of it is not under your control. The calories out you do control, exercise, isn't very helpful or can even work against fat loss--as I noted.

 

1 hour ago, coconuts said:

the body can not magically create energy from nothing , it has to come from somewhere . 

Well, you got that down, anyway. ????

Edited February 9, 2023 by BigStar

[coconuts]

???? i got lucky on one point then ????

 

You don't really understand that the "calculation" is a moving target and much of it is not under your control. The calories out you do control, exercise, isn't very helpful or can even work against fat loss--as I noted

 

 it may be a moving target , but the point still remains that if you consume fewer calories that you expend each day you will lose weight . i would say the calories in is controllable too , it will never be exact , but it won't be too far off where you need to be . 

[Sandboxer]

You're over the hill, i.e. you've already "won" the game by making it to your age relatively healthy. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done and eat steaks for brekkie lunch and dinner and wash down with beer, and reward yourself with a ciggie or five after each meal.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Sandboxer

[lamyai3]

23 hours ago, Mark Nothing said:

I Drink a liter of urine daily plus topical application. 

Two gallons a week? ????