Possibility for legally doing remote work

[fruitspunch]

Hello,
I'm planning to move to Thailand in about 2 years to live with my Thai girlfriend long-term.
Currently I'm working as a software developer for a small company in my home country Germany. We only have German clients.
I'm already working 90% remotely right now and optimally,  I would like to coninue doing my job once in Thailand like before.

However, after a lengthy research on the internet, I am quite confused.
It appears that (please correct me if I'm wrong) 
1. It is illegal for me to do any work, including remote, without a work permit.
2. Marriage Visa or Elite Visa (the only long term visas it seems like I will be eliglible for) do not come with a work permit attached.
3. It is impossible to apply for a work permit for working remotely for a foreign company.

In conclusion (?), it seems to be impossible for me to continue doing my job and I would have to quit my job and find a new employer (or clients) based in Thailand.

Now I have heard that some people work remotely in Thailand who claim that authorities usually condone this. However, I would not like to build my future on the mercy of officials who may or may not allow me to do this in the future or on my ability to hide what I'm doing for years on end -  something I'm not comfortable with in the first place. 

Is there really no "orthodox", legal way to do what I want to do? It's not like I want to avoid paying taxes or anything like that. Suggestions?

Next likely step for me would be to try some professional consulting.

Thank you.

[DrJack54]

Work online with O/S clients no issue.

If you are 50+ obtain a non O based on retirement with annual extensions.

If younger check out BOI visa options.

Few threads regarding that. 

[mockingbird]

Relax.

Immigration have zero interest in digital nomads. They are only concerned with foreigners taking Thai based jobs without a work permit. 

 

Why are you planning 2 years in advance?  

[Red Phoenix]

In your case I would suggest to keep your official residence in Germany. 

If you are the owner of your current house/flat, you can simply keep it and rent it out.

But this does not mean that if you are NOT the owner of your current house/flat, that you need to keep on renting it. 

In that case you could officially move to the house of your parents or other relatives (brother/sister).  And you would need to do this a couple of weeks before you would move to Thailand.  And once you made your official move to that new German address (where you have a room with a bed and a desk, as evidence of it being the place where you reside), you can then start a German one-man consultancy firm from that address.

That would allow you to send invoices to your German clients, for your work using that German address. Where you do the work doesn't matter, and that you are 'on holiday' abroad most of the time is perfectly acceptable.

As previous responses already confirmed: Thai authorities have no problem with digital nomads doing work while residing in Thailand, the main thing they are concerned about is that you would be 'taking work' from Thai nationals.  But you doing work on-line for non-Thai customers will be of no interest for them. Obviously - even if what you are doing is fully legit - you should not mention that you are doing 'work'  here to Thai Immigration to avoid any unnecessary inconvenience for you as it would raise questions from their part.

Note that keeping your official residence in Germany also has additional benefits as it will preserve all your German rights.  Officially moving to Thailand has several disadvantages, and when staying in Thailand on a Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage, doesn't make you a Thai resident (you are a NON immigrant).  You are simply permitted to stay, and need to apply every year for a new extension of that privilege.

Good luck and smart of you to already check out the options before making your Big Move!

[F Groenen]

The other possible visa would be the LTR-WFT visa, however you would not qualify for that given your current employment.

[Eaglekott]

12 hours ago, fruitspunch said:

Elite Visa

Elite VISA would be your best option, I know a few digital nomads working from Thailand on Elite VISA, and if there is any questions the Elite VISA staff will help you sort questions out.

 

Important is not do any work that has anything with Thailand to do, For example can not work as a Digital nomad for a European country and create a website or application for any one or anything in Thailand.

 

Elite VISA also comes with many extra benefits, like they handle 90 days report for you unless you wanna do your self over internet, you get a electric car that drive you to and back from the Gate, you go through immigration in the VIP line, same a ambassadors and 1st class/Business class travelers. Limousine to and back from the Airport, access to golf courses etc..

 

I suggest you contact them and be open with your plans to work as a Digital nomad, They will help. They can even find you a office to use if you don't want to work from home all the time.

 

The bad side with the Elite VISA is that is does not count if you want to apply for a Permanent Residency in the future, If so you must have 3+ years of unbroken Extension of Stay witch you never get on Elite VISA.

 

In the first sentence you state "Thai Girlfriend" and if you are not married you can not get a O-VISA based or Marriage.

 

Your option nr3 might be possible by opening a satellite office in Thailand but I think that is rather complicated.

[DrJack54]

May be of some interest to OP.

Yesterday I rented out a condo for year lease to a USA guy.

His job....digital nomad.

Lives in Thailand with extensions to non O retirement.

His business has nothing to Thailand and no Thai clients.

 

No problem.

[JimTripper]

Work means where the income comes from (abroad), not where you are sitting.

[ChaiyaTH]

No need for it but if you plan to go on marriage / marriage visa, you actually only need 2 employees for a work permit of which the wife can be one already too. Other than that maybe 2 parttime people like a cleaner or accountant, or family member.

 

This also can have some benefits for your wife to earn money on paper, getting mortgage or car etc. For you at the same time it doesn't have to hurt to have a minimal income via that company aside of still keeping the rest 'offshore'.

[khunPer]

16 hours ago, fruitspunch said:

1. It is illegal for me to do any work, including remote, without a work permit.
2. Marriage Visa or Elite Visa (the only long term visas it seems like I will be eliglible for) do not come with a work permit attached.
3. It is impossible to apply for a work permit for working remotely for a foreign company.

1. In principle yes, but many works for foreign clients "under the radar" and officially live of their savings. Be aware, that foreign money transferred into Thailand during the same tax year (calendar year) as earned are fully income taxable in Thailand, while waiting with transfer to the following year, or any later year, magically has changed the money's status to savings, which are tax free ti transfer.

 

2. When married to a Thai you can apply for work permit. However, if you work on your own you need to set up a company, which can be a partnership limited with your wife; she needs to own 51% of the partnership. You also need two Thai employees for a work permit to a foreigner, one of the employees can be your wife.

 

3. Yes, there is the new LTR-visa for remote workers, you can read more HERE.

[ExpatDraco]

4 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Work means where the income comes from (abroad), not where you are sitting.

Not really.... source of income is where the work is physically done even if it is remote work.

 

But anyway, Thailand doesn't care about digitals who work from their office at home as long as they don't work for Thai companies, customers, etc...

[jacob29]

8 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Work means where the income comes from (abroad), not where you are sitting.

No it's where the work is performed, which is also why a work permit is required even if the source of income is from abroad.

 

This is made explicit with the smart visa - the income is from a foreign corp as part of the visa conditions, but they still expect you to pay tax on that income. The one year remittance exemption is for foreign source income (such as investment income from abroad).

[jacob29]

You can set up your own company, and hire yourself. Very expensive, and you will need proper Thai partners involved. Do not use fake nominees that many agents will offer, as authorities have repeatedly clarified this is illegal. Also requires four Thai employees per work permit which is what makes it a deal breaker for most.

 

There's also a work permit option available for the elite visa, requires 10m thb investment or so, making it impractical.

 

Finally consider this, if you established your own company, hired yourself.. what if you later hired a foreign associate, who works as a contractor but invoices through your company. This is how sponsored work permit services operate. Plenty of people say they're illegal, but I've yet to hear a coherent legal argument as to how/why - since they're identical in structure to the hiring yourself option (which definitely is legal). If this was in fact illegal, consulting/contracting agencies (which take a cut of your profit) would be illegal as well, which I find highly unlikely.

Edited April 5, 2023 by jacob29

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Mmm, 16k baht. Not a bad take for 2 weeks of online teaching. USD goes to PayPal, then to my US bank acct, then to my Thai bank through Wise. Me and hundreds of teachers across Thailand are doing this, as we must supplement our meager public school salaries.

 

The 40k baht my school gives me monthly isn't much, but along with the 32k above it makes for quite a respectable salary, with the low cost of living up here in Issan.

 

I'm just a lowly teacher, and you'll probably be bringing in a lot more in tech. Just don't go bragging about it too much, not at the bars, and def not to the missus and her fam. And don't be like these AseanNow folks, who if you believe them are all secretly C-level managing directors of large multinationals, transferring in a million baht each month. Hah. Cheers.

[BritTim]

There is no specific mechanism for typical digital nomads in Thailand. You might, however, qualify. There is an LTR (Long Term Resident) visa that has a category called "Work from Thailand Professionals"). If you can meet the following requirements, it might be worth investigating:

Quote

REMOTE WORKERS WORKING FOR WELL-ESTABLISHED OVERSEAS COMPANIES

• Personal income of a minimum of USD 80,000 / year in the past two years

• In case of personal income below USD 80,000/year but no less than USD 40,000/year in the past two years, applicants must have a Master’s degree or above or own intellectual property or receive Series A funding

• Public company on a stock exchange or; Private company in operation for at least three years with combined revenue at least USD 150 million in the last three years

• At least 5 years of work experience in the relevant fields of the current employment over the past 10 years

• Health insurance with at least USD 50,000 coverage or social security benefits insuring treatment in Thailand or at least USD 100,000 deposit

Leaving that aside, as others have mentioned above, the Thai authorities are well aware that they do not formally accommodate digital nomads. While not explicitly supported, they are 100% tolerated under the conditions that 100% of the work you do is for overseas employers, and you have no Thai customers. Under those circumstances, they consider you positive for the Thai economy and not competing with Thai companies or workers. It is not a matter of relying on kind officials. The decision has been made at the highest levels to leave you alone.

 

The main question is the visa to allow you to stay, not the work permit. If you have a Thai spouse, a marriage visa/extension is a good option. The Thailand Elite visa is convenient, but costly if not sure you will be here at least several years. If over age 50, there is also a retirement visa/extension.

[fruitspunch]

A lot of response with many interesting points raised. Thanks, guys!

As this topic is quite involved, I will have to research some of the things you mentioned and try to figure out what would be best for me, then come back for further questions.

This is exactly why I'm thinking about this a long time in advance, well that and for the possibility of a previous stay of a couple of months later this year.

I'm in my mid thirties. Income-wise doing alright, but not wealthy.. Elite visa would be a significant investment that I would be willing to make only if the benefits are *very* significant or necessary.

Yes, we are not married, but we plan to get married, so might as well do that as soon as I move there.

Thanks again

 

[markclover]

Pay an agency to list you as a teacher.  You can just do your own business but you will have a work permit.

 

 

[beeper]

I am considering a job with APAC scope with a foreign company without any presence in Thailand. No need for a visa as I am permanent resident here. 
How might the authorities view this in terms of WP and tax requirements?

[BritTim]

As you have PR status, my comments here are tentative. It is conceivable that special rules exist.

 

Generally, doing remote work without a work permit is not officially legal. That said, if your work has absolutely no connection with Thailand (employer, customers etc.) then doing so is 100% tolerated. The decision was made at a high level that this was good for the Thai economy without competing in any way with Thai business or workers. They will leave you alone even if fully aware of what you are doing.

 

As far as tax goes, the normal rule is as follows. If you (i) spend more than 180 days during the year in Thailand; and (ii) the money earned through remote work is brought into Thailand during the year: then the income is taxable. If the money remains outside Thailand, it is non taxable. Since money is fungible (i.e. you cannot easily tell whether a particular dollar is from recent earnings or savings) doubts can arise as to whether a transfer into Thailand involves taxable income. Theoretically, if you have savings outside Thailand that is kept in a separate account from that that receives income, then you can legally avoid tax by transferring only from your savings into Thailand.

[jacob29]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

As far as tax goes, the normal rule is as follows. If you (i) spend more than 180 days during the year in Thailand; and (ii) the money earned through remote work is brought into Thailand during the year: then the income is taxable. If the money remains outside Thailand, it is non taxable. 

This applies to foreign source income, which it won't be if the income was derived within Thailand borders.

 

For example, if you've never set foot in the UK, and work as a remote contractor for a UK company - you're not liable for UK tax as it's not UK sourced income. So if it's not UK sourced.. well there's only one other source it could be, which is where the work was carried out. There's plenty of literature supporting this interpretation. The same would apply to Thai companies hiring remote offshore contractors that have never been inside Thailand, though harder to find real world examples as it's not a common arrangement.

[BritTim]

10 hours ago, jacob29 said:

This applies to foreign source income, which it won't be if the income was derived within Thailand borders.

 

For example, if you've never set foot in the UK, and work as a remote contractor for a UK company - you're not liable for UK tax as it's not UK sourced income. So if it's not UK sourced.. well there's only one other source it could be, which is where the work was carried out. There's plenty of literature supporting this interpretation. The same would apply to Thai companies hiring remote offshore contractors that have never been inside Thailand, though harder to find real world examples as it's not a common arrangement.

When you receive money into your UK bank account for remote work that has been carried out while travelling in and out of several countries, how does one decide how much of the taxable income should be apportioned to each of countries visited?

 

Traditional tax systems do not deal well (or really at all) with the gig economy operating across borders. In most cases, they do not even try.

[bigt3116]

On 4/5/2023 at 8:15 PM, jacob29 said:

There's also a work permit option available for the elite visa, requires 10m thb investment or so, making it impractical.

Elite is classed as a tourist visa and therefore there is not an option to get a work permit with it.

[FritsSikkink]

On 4/5/2023 at 11:07 AM, DrJack54 said:

May be of some interest to OP.

Yesterday I rented out a condo for year lease to a USA guy.

His job....digital nomad.

Lives in Thailand with extensions to non O retirement.

His business has nothing to Thailand and no Thai clients.

 

No problem.

Illegal as he is not allowed to work on a retirement visa. He does need a work permit and there is a visa for this: LTR Visa Thailand (boi.go.th) You are encouraging people to do illegal things.

Edited April 17, 2023 by FritsSikkink

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Illegal as he is not allowed to work on a retirement visa. He does need a work permit and there is a visa for this: LTR Visa Thailand (boi.go.th) You are encouraging people to do illegal things.

For a remote worker employed directly by a large overseas company, the LTR visa is an option. That does not encompass the vast majority of digital nomads who will not be able to get an LTR visa.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the replies to them.

 

I am going to keep an eye on this topic going forward and remove without comment any post that does not fully take into account these criteria laid out by the OP:

 

Quote

 

Now I have heard that some people work remotely in Thailand who claim that authorities usually condone this. However, I would not like to build my future on the mercy of officials who may or may not allow me to do this in the future or on my ability to hide what I'm doing for years on end -  something I'm not comfortable with in the first place. 

Is there really no "orthodox", legal way to do what I want to do? It's not like I want to avoid paying taxes or anything like that.