Fun-loving UK teenager dies after taking drugs at Full Moon party in Thailand, inquest reveals

[crazykopite]

She might well have gone to the FM Party but the drugs she took could have been gotten anywhere doesn’t mean to say she purchased them whist at the party  RIP to the deceased gone before her time,  but messing with drugs is not a wise decision ????????????️????????

[ChrisKC]

9 minutes ago, nchuckle said:

" I don’t like it cos I’ve never tried it" is effectively what you’ve said. So you can’t judge the incremental value of the fun that someone on ecstasy has had. "Need" doesn’t really apply as a definitive decider. You didn’t 'need' that glass of wine along with a whole raft of other indulgences (an expensive meal,a nice car etc.) that makes one’s life more enjoyable . I didn’t "need " to do track days in my high performance BMW,but boy were they worth the cost and the risk. It’s termed a risk/reward ratio. Deaths from ecstasy ,given the numbers taking them , is a relatively low risk ratio. I’ll remind you that cannabis (which was illegal) is now legal here and in many other countries - as was alcohol in prohibition America ,and today in some Muslim countries,so using that as a definitive gauge ,along with the legality of harmful opioids , is rather a flawed metric. 

It isn't what I said, that is your opinion that I do not share. I don't do drugs, I am not denying what others get from them, but I do not need them. I do not do drugs because it is also illegal. Citing what is now legal here or in America is irrelevant to my comments or this thread. Ecstasy is illegal and I have not  been interested in the slightest as to their so-called benefit for those who cannot have the amount or fun they crave without them.

 

I have owned three BMW's and I DO know what having some of the luxuries of life including, yes, plenty of fun.

 

I don't want to hear anymore of your justification for the use of illegal drugs.

[Henryford]

"fun loving" is that the current euphemism for junkie.

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, PJ71 said:

Did you realize the potential risks involved with partying when you were 18?

Yes of course, you didn't?

[newbee2022]

Sad, sad, she didn't learn anything in her short life. However, independent means to take all risks in life by yourself. In this case with fatal outcome. RIP????

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

well '  .... we'll never really know .....  but taking drugs is a no no in my book.  but each to his own ....

You think she bought the only pill there?

[PJ71]

2 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Yes of course, you didn't?

Nope - i was throwing anything down my neck anyone was giving me.

 

I've enjoyed recreational drug use all throughout my adult life ( in moderation ).

 

This is a extremely rare and sad occurence.

[bananafish]

2 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

When I was a teenager, I went to parties, in fact in my twenties too, but I didn't need the crutch of drugs to give me a false feeling of "fun"

 

When it comes to drugs, I have never taken any in my entire life and from that point of view, the cynics may call me "goody goody".

 

The dead girl was described as "fiercely independent". What does this mean? Is it someone who is stubborn, someone who doesn't take advice from anyone including parents, doesn't need anyone's help for anything? I will do what I like! The "fun" life is where one doesn't require any due diligence; can be carefree.

 

She won't suffer anything from her death but her friends and family have to live with this tragedy for the rest of their lives - it is with them I offer my sympathies!

I won't call you any names for your choice to never take drugs, I respect it. 

 

But ecstasy doesn't give you a "false" feeling of pleasure, any more than paracetamol gives you a "false" feeling of pain relief. 

[Bday Prang]

38 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Ecstasy (MDMA) is very interesting to me.

 

The medical issues with it tend to be either heatstroke, dehydrating, over-hydrating or impurities.

 

It used to be the drug of choice in many clubs, and where it was, practically no alcohol was sold. They often had medical staff on hand to cope with heat stroke and staff would tell people wearing hats to remove them due to risk of heatstroke.

 

I remember discussing it with a senior policeman, he told me they turned a blind eye to it because clubs running on ecstasy had zero violence related crime, in alcohol type clubs there were often several fights a night. 

              The reason no alcohol or very little was sold is because , a common side effect for most people who have taken "ecstasy" is that beer tastes highly unpleasant The other more pleasant side effect is the enhanced enjoyment of music which often accompanied by the feeling an urge to dance. 

              Many of the night clubs, in an attempt to mitigate loss of profits due to low beer sales often sealed up taps in the toilets and attempted to sell water at vastly increased prices. It was this that lead to a few cases of serious dehydration, it was not a pharmacological effect of the drug itself

              More interesting to you may be the case of a girl called Leah Betts who was alleged to have been the first "ecstasy death" in the UK. However it was subsequently discovered that the cause of her death was not the ecstacy itself or indeed dehydration. Quite the opposite in fact, as , following advice from her friends and indeed the government she went to great lengths to avoid dehydration, she was found to have drunk an excessive amount of water , 6 liters in one hour I think was the estimate. This was officially recorded as the cause of her death if I remember correctly.  I don't think that small detail ever made it to the front pages 

[Chongalulu]

3 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

I don't want to hear anymore of your justification for the use of illegal drugs

You do understand that there is a wide ongoing discussion about the merits or otherwise of legalising/decriminalising  drugs with some countries,including Thailand,legalising some of them ? 
So,you are effectively saying that your judgement is primarily influenced by the legal mores of where you happen to be and the vagaries of legality and timing by different countries as your yardstick . Now Thailand has legalised cannabis it’s ok because it’s not illegal? It appears that you simply wish to have a viewpoint and put your fingers in your ears to discussion of a different viewpoint with supporting evidence. 

[Bday Prang]

10 minutes ago, Henryford said:

"fun loving" is that the current euphemism for junkie.

If you knew the true meaning of "Junkie" you would not have made that ridiculous comment

[Chongalulu]

10 minutes ago, Henryford said:

"fun loving" is that the current euphemism for junkie.

Yes,just as the guy enjoying a Gin and Tonic is an 'alchy'.

[Tropposurfer]

2 hours ago, wealthychef said:

Yes but it is cool when you are a kid to ignore the risks.  You just don't think they apply to you.  Not sure what the answer is to this, but making drugs illegal or putting people in jail or giving out fines is probably not it.  (not that you are suggesting such things)

RIP young woman ????

 

Education, decriminalising, and de-stigmatising of drug use and especially addiction has proved far more effective than criminalising it.

The ongoing problem with this intervention is that it makes society uncomfortable, uncomfortable because to acknowledge that people turn to drugs for reasons that are extremely confronting to society sees it much easier to shame, demonise, and pillar the drug users and at the extreme end of drug use .... the addicted.

 

Risk taking as a young person, peer group pressures, etc make young people do things that increase harm risks. This is a part of the maturation process of humans and always has been. There are exceptions to this maturation process of boundary stretching and risk taking of course, with the continuum of experimentation and risky behaviours ranging from truly mind blowingly dangerous to benign mild risk experimentations behaviourally and chemically e.g a few puffs of a joint and never again.

 

It may have been that this young woman had never used amphetamines before and had no guidance in hydration, or behavioural support/management by more experienced users at the point of her extreme high e.g. dancing frenetically etc without rest or hydration. It could too have been a bad pill amongst a batch of many (this does happen, and is not usually just limited to one pill sold locally or at an event in my experience).

Others might have had a bad trip that night too (its highly likely) but had help or experience to know things were going south. She may have had underlying pathology that was exacerbated by the intense psychodelic, entactogenic nature of the amphetamine cocktail. Rather than a simply explained away cardiac arrest from over-exertion and dehydration (common).  

 

Open testing booths/stations at raves, outdoor mass concert venues, and other mass party locations has removed dangerous MMDA and other amphetamine cocktails from the scene and saved people suffering bad highs, and possibly dying in some nations.

But in LOS they're not allowed as far as I know, and anyone trying to set a pharmacological testing station would be subject to arrest and prosecution.

 

The 'war' on drugs has never worked in any nation that I know of (and I worked at the coal-face in addiction treatment for a quite a long time on three continents).

 

The nations that have removed legislated criminal penalties have reduced the death tolls of drugs such as opioids, and rave drugs like MMDA, MDA to a huge degree and the pool of chronic users has always declined over time, leaving a 'hard core' of addicts but at far reduced numbers than when drugs use was criminalised. 

 

Some Euro nations decriminalised a bunch of drugs years ago and in a few short years the masses of opioid injectors littering the streets and parks etc tapered off dramatically (contrary to the loud nay-sayers who said it would increase the really bad opioid problem they had back then by the way).

A return to communal care for drug addictions and recreational users alike in Finland saw massive changes in the demographics associated with drug addiction e.g. robbery, B&E, dealer/gang related crime and violence, suicide, murder, overdose, assaults on medical personnel.

 

I'm out of the loop now but as far as I know with the advent of new subgroups of organised criminals in the world making inroads into other nations out of their usual turf has seen an increase in drug trafficking internationally.

 

The proponents of de-criminalising still say that if the criminality of drugs was simply removed then the profits from drug dealing crime would simply die on the vine. Primarily because drugs would be manufactured by licensed people, and overseen by State entities. One related data-proven revolutionary intervention was in Finland. A revolutionary home-care based system for drug induced schizophrenia, and non-drug related schizophrenia years back and the changes associated with the outcomes for those who suffer from this disorder, and society at large were quite remarkable.

 

The moralist/religious overview of drug use (since man first pressed grapes) and the denialism, shaming, and punishment of man's propensity to alter his experience of reality has failed.  

[Bday Prang]

18 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

It isn't what I said, that is your opinion that I do not share. I don't do drugs, I am not denying what others get from them, but I do not need them. I do not do drugs because it is also illegal. Citing what is now legal here or in America is irrelevant to my comments or this thread. Ecstasy is illegal and I have not  been interested in the slightest as to their so-called benefit for those who cannot have the amount or fun they crave without them.

 

I have owned three BMW's and I DO know what having some of the luxuries of life including, yes, plenty of fun.

 

I don't want to hear anymore of your justification for the use of illegal drugs.

Not much fun owning a BMW if you are going to adhere to the speed limits, a nissan micra would suffice.

Plenty of people have also died as a result of BMW's over the years and alcohol or other drugs were not always a contributing factor.

I don't want to hear any further justification for these killing machines which are often also used illegally

[Dan O]

6 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Was there actually anything "wrong" with the tablet?

If the autotopsy shows mdma toxicity was cause she didn't take just 1 pill she had a large amount or 1 f'n huge tablet

[VinnieK]

2 hours ago, 2009 said:

It's not "cool", it's the the prefrontal cortex has not fully developed yet

..and a culture that encourages drug use 

[Dont confuse me]

Not nice for the parents, a waste of what sounds could have been a productive life.

Other than alcohol I've not taken recreational drugs, that's not to say I haven't been offered or around them.

In this day and age I think it would be nieve of parents to think their child hasn't been offered or tried drugs.

Some come through unscathed others may not be so lucky! In my opinion it's all down to choices made and luck.

[ravip]

6 hours ago, steven100 said:

well '  .... we'll never really know .....  but taking drugs is a no no in my book.  but each to his own ....

Agree 100%

[paulikens]

Quite a lot of monks on here by the sounds of it. with their "I have never taken drugs"  so perfect! you are truly great role models. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, paulikens said:

Quite a lot of monks on here by the sounds of it. with their "I have never taken drugs"  so perfect! you are truly great role models. 

Some of us don't like taking drugs .

I haven't taken drugs , simply because I don't want to 

Nothing to do with being perfect or  role model , simply don't want to take them 

[Taboo2]

Sadly, this occurs often.  May she rest in peace.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Taboo2

[ThailandGuy]

6 hours ago, PJ71 said:

Did you realize the potential risks involved with partying when you were 18?

Does it make the outcome different or help the relatives?   Why take such risk in Thailand?  It is prohibited and has bad quality illegal MDMA. 

"A fun-loving, “fiercely independent” teenager ". Another live unnessecary wasted and destroyed just "for having fun", whatever that means to those 18 year old people. These youngsters should start using their brains instead of destroying it with drugs.

[frank83628]

2 hours ago, smew said:

RIP young Lady.

the ecstacy pill must have been spiked with something more potent .... 

i doubt it 

[PJ71]

1 minute ago, ThailandGuy said:

Does it make the outcome different or help the relatives

I'm merely making the point she was 18 and out on an adventure of a lifetime, i'd imagine all her mates took the same drugs without issues.

 

2 minutes ago, ThailandGuy said:

It is prohibited and has bad quality illegal MDMA. 

you know drugs are bad quality before taking do you? Impressive.

[DualSportBiker]

1 hour ago, ChrisKC said:

It isn't what I said, that is your opinion that I do not share. I don't do drugs, I am not denying what others get from them, but I do not need them. I do not do drugs because it is also illegal. Citing what is now legal here or in America is irrelevant to my comments or this thread. Ecstasy is illegal and I have not  been interested in the slightest as to their so-called benefit for those who cannot have the amount or fun they crave without them.

 

I have owned three BMW's and I DO know what having some of the luxuries of life including, yes, plenty of fun.

 

I don't want to hear anymore of your justification for the use of illegal drugs.

Except that there is now a growing body of knowledge that MDMA, LSD and Psilocybin have semi-permanent positive impact on PTSD and other chronic mental issues. The label 'illegal' is too simple to use a reason to dismiss them. As for stating "I do not need them." Well, how do you know if you have never tried? You don't and you can't argue that you don't. In psychology that is known as an 'argument from ignorance.'

[DualSportBiker]

7 hours ago, lom said:

Why do you assume that all tablets in a batch are of equal strength?

It is a fair assumption because firstly, when making chemical batches that are metered out in such small doses, kilos of the stuff are produced, not individual pills. Secondly, It would be very hard to get a batch to crystallise without it being mixed sufficiently to have even distribution of all component elements.

[Andrew65]

4 minutes ago, DualSportBiker said:

Except that there is now a growing body of knowledge that MDMA, LSD and Psilocybin have semi-permanent positive impact on PTSD and other chronic mental issues. The label 'illegal' is too simple to use a reason to dismiss them. As for stating "I do not need them." Well, how do you know if you have never tried? You don't and you can't argue that you don't. In psychology that is known as an 'argument from ignorance.'

Wouldn't the difference be whether or not such substances are given to you by a doctor or by a stranger in a nightclub?

Heroin has health (pain killing) benefits when given by a doctor, usually to the terminally ill, but not if taken recreationally.

[Sigma6]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

If the autotopsy shows mdma toxicity was cause she didn't take just 1 pill she had a large amount or 1 f'n huge tablet

Its seems many have missed the point that the autopsy reported a trace amount of MDMA in her system at the time of death - 0.54 milligrams.

Also that she died over 24 hours after the full moon party. (party the 17th, found dead on the 19th, after seeing friends on the 'hungover' day in between)

[Bundooman]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

No coffee, tea, alcohol, paracetamol then?

Trivial and facetious comment.

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, steven100 said:

very sad indeed,  however anyone who takes drugs unknowingly what it's made of should realize the potential risk involved,  and especially during a Thai full moon party.  How many have died there due to drug taking over the years ...  !

They are teenagers so of course they take risks, what teenager does'nt. Unfortunately people of all ages die from recreational drug use and alcohol too.

 

It's a sad loss of life whatever age.