Battle for Bangkok raging between conservative and liberal camps – but result already looks decisive

[JonnyF]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

No, that is not what we all think.

Many of us, who were here then Thaksin was PM, know about his crimes and we are not surprised that he was sentenced to jail, just like other criminals. 

Most people would agree that whether someone has committed a crime or not they deserve due process, not to be effectively exiled by a Kangaroo court being stood over by an Army that illegally stole power.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, h90 said:

Pro democracy is what USA/western media supports. If people elect the wrong one it is not democratic.

It didn't matter who won or last at the last election as the EC, CC and the rest of the alphabet soup changed the results AFTER the elections.

 

IMHO this time around it may not be so easy.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, h90 said:

They won the majority of votes in the 2017 election....and the constitution had a referendum which the previous did not have and which most countries constitution doesn't have so that is more democratic as many countries on the planet.
And if they do bad in the election the senate shouldn't and hopefully will not vote for them. If they do very bad and the senate pushes them into power than I do agree with you.

Actually they didn't win the majority votes at the last election.

 

The EC banned Thanathorn and disbanded the FFP, thus disenfranchising over 6 million voters, AFTER the election. They also broke their own rules on the number of votes needed for a party to gain a party list seat, but that only applied to parties who would join the PPRP coalition.

 

The referendum on the "NEW" constitution also did  NOT take place until after the election.

 

If you are going to comment on a topic then at least do some research on it first, instead of posting obvious rubbish as you do most of the time. 

[hotchilli]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And one party is run by a criminal fugitive who wants revenge. Is that democracy? 

Is that based on fact or just your opinion?

[malathione]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Some give and/or promise the people money when they vote for them. Is that pro-democracy? 

And one party is run by a criminal fugitive who wants revenge. Is that democracy? 

They all do including the current government. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Most people would agree that whether someone has committed a crime or not they deserve due process, not to be effectively exiled by a Kangaroo court being stood over by an Army that illegally stole power.

Which part of duo process didn't happen?

Thaksin could have come back to Thailand anytime. He is a Thai citizen, he doesn't need a visa or anything to enter Thailand.

He decided to run away.

He decided that he didn't attend the court cases.

Should everybody who runs away have later the right to say: I wasn't there. That wasn't fair.

He is fully responsible for his own destiny. Nobody forced him to commit the crimes. Nobody forced him out of the country. And now nobody is forcing him to come back. If he dies in the desert, then he will never go to Thai jail. Win/win. 

[Al BB]

52 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Actually they didn't win the majority votes at the last election.

 

The EC banned Thanathorn and disbanded the FFP, thus disenfranchising over 6 million voters, . They also broke their own rules on the number of votes needed for a party to gain a party list seat, but that only applied to parties who would join the PPRP coalition.

 

The referendum on the "NEW" constitution also did  NOT take place until after the election.

 

If you are going to comment on a topic then at least do some research on it first, instead of posting obvious rubbish as you do most of the time. 

"....after the election... " That's the problem, that, IMO is what Prayut and his cronies (EC & NACC) are planning to do to PT and MFP.

[TigerandDog]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Some give and/or promise the people money when they vote for them. Is that pro-democracy? 

And one party is run by a criminal fugitive who wants revenge. Is that democracy? 

name me a single country, with a govt elected by THE PEOPLE (democratically) where promises of tax reductions, social security payments will be increased etc  is considered as not being pro-democracy. You can't because they ALL do it as part of their election promises..

It doesn't matter what your opinion is of Thaksin, if THE PEOPLE vote for Pheu Thai then that is democracy, regardless of who allegedly runs the party.

Your extremely blinkered opinions of Thaksin are affecting your better judgement. Better you cease posting your hatred for Thaksin as I'm sure most of the members on here are fed up with your never ending hatred for him.

[Felton Jarvis]

5 hours ago, h90 said:

A few years ago there was fighting at the Cambodian border with artillery exchanges.
Myanmar is pretty hot.
There are disputes with Malaysia

Thailand needs a strong military.....if it should be a complete different one can be discussed but some military is needed.

The same lame arguments were used in Costa Rica. They were seeing Communists under every rock. Once they abolished the military, most of their problems went away and they had money for social programs.

[edwinchester]

5 hours ago, h90 said:

Stagnant: Yes....corruption: Less than with previous governments...with Thaksin sure the worst.
Antithesis? They were dictators and gave back democracy to the people and got elected...that does not sound like Nord Korea to me

Gave back democracy? Laughable conclusion. How many of the 250 senators who unanamously voted to appoint Prayut PM were elected? Here's a clue.......none.

[Felton Jarvis]

5 hours ago, BenStark said:

Maybe time for you to clean up your memory.

There was no election in 2017, and in the 2019 election they got far from the majority of votes.

 

PT got almost double the votes of Prayuth's party, but they were helped by their appointed stooges, also called senate here.

Indeed every country needs a strong military, to protect the country, not to rule the country

Thailand can rely on the USA to prevent any insurgencies.. No military is necessary here, except to “protect” the highest institution.

[metisdead]

A post with a trolling image has been removed.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Al BB said:

"....after the election... " That's the problem, that, IMO is what Prayut and his cronies (EC & NACC) are planning to do to PT and MFP.

I agree with you but IMHO I don't think that the majority of Thai voters will accept that this time around.

 

I keep reading there will be another coup but the military are vastly outnumbered and there is no guarantee that the conscripts will do as they are ordered.

 

I think this is what terrifies the military the most.

 

Yes, they have the guns and the tanks etc, but they don't have the overwhelming support of the majority of the Thai people.

[GMReloaded]

I don't really know about Move Forward but saying that Pheu Thai is a pro-democracy party is horse<deleted>. Thaksin is a cynical populist and the perfect candidate if Thailand wants to become a plutocracy.

[Sydebolle]

It would not surprise me, if Pheuthai and Move Forward walk off the stage with landslide winnings. Yet, the dinosaurs will not let go just like that.

Prayut threatened more than once, that any query related to 112 is illegal and will be followed up with the full force of the (present) law; latter can only be changed with re-writing it, approval by HM and publishing in the Royal Gazette. 

In short, MF might be toast before the poll results are out - Catch 22 - as only the ruling boys can amend existing laws and they have the least of intentions. Same applies to the education system; too many benefit of the unbelievable poor status-quo and those who could change benefit from NOT doing so. So, in all fairness, what is to be expected here? 

Thaksin is in his possibly last race and it is not money; it is face and reputation which he wants to have  reinstated. That makes him and his endeavours extremely dangerous and is most feared by those uniformed clowns who helped themselves at the free buffet over the last nine years ..... be warned, difficult moments might be ahead! 

Unlike all others since 1932, Thaksin did not take only but bred the grassroots level with basic healthcare, SME loans and power to the village administrations. That explains possibly, why he is still so popular, despite having left the country last time for good in 2008. He got "detronizzato" as the Italians say on 19 September 2006, a day before he was to address the general assembly of the United Nations in New York; the date was not co-incidential as the dinosaurs thought that he would lose face completely. Well, that did not happen, he left New York heading for London with a straight back - which he still has today. It is face and name and not money - in his case - and that has been grossly underestimated. 

Let's see, what our hosts are coming up with over the next weeks - interesting times await! 

[StayinThailand2much]

Conservatives and liberals? Odd descriptions for parties in Thailand, unless with 'conservatives' is meant the parties that want to protect the status quo of the role and far-reaching powers of the monarchy.

[soalbundy]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Some give and/or promise the people money when they vote for them. Is that pro-democracy? 

And one party is run by a criminal fugitive who wants revenge. Is that democracy? 

Tell me country which has democracy other than in name. It has been said that true democracy can only be had in a society numbering less than 5,000 people, they can vote on every issue passed into law. As it is once politicians are in power they don't give a flying fart what you want (I wonder how many people wanted the council tax or wanted to send troops to Iraq). What we have is a compromise governed by international market forces, parliament can only react to the stock exchange and at the same time keeping an eye on the 'free' press which molds our opinions according to which fat cat has control of it.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

name me a single country, with a govt elected by THE PEOPLE (democratically) where promises of tax reductions, social security payments will be increased etc  is considered as not being pro-democracy. You can't because they ALL do it as part of their election promises..

It doesn't matter what your opinion is of Thaksin, if THE PEOPLE vote for Pheu Thai then that is democracy, regardless of who allegedly runs the party.

Your extremely blinkered opinions of Thaksin are affecting your better judgement. Better you cease posting your hatred for Thaksin as I'm sure most of the members on here are fed up with your never ending hatred for him.

Name me a single country where a party promised that everybody will get 10,000 THB (or similar) to spend if they vote for party x. Please don't mention tax reductions or similar. 

[herfiehandbag]

9 hours ago, h90 said:

Also Generals have the right to become politicians after the retire....Eisenhower was also "General in suit".

Mind you, Eisenhower won with some 55% of the vote; rather than staging a coup whilst still a general, a few months short of retiring, appointing himself as President, remaining in office for four years during which he rewrote the constitution to make it virtually impossible to be removed electorally, winning a second term in office by blatantly gerrymandering the subsequent election. He didn't ban two significant opposition parties...

 

But yes, he was a retired general in a suit.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

38 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Name me a single country where a party promised that everybody will get 10,000 THB (or similar) to spend if they vote for party x. Please don't mention tax reductions or similar. 

As discussed in a different thread the 10,000 goes to those eligible not to those who vote for them.

It's fairly common. In my state in Australia I got $250 to save on energy bills from the state government. In your bank account. Tax reductions are the same thing anyway - more money in your pocket either way. 

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Thailand can rely on the USA to prevent any insurgencies.. No military is necessary here, except to “protect” the highest institution.

"Protect" the highest institution against whom?

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

What the opinion polls say

 

A survey of 39,687 Bangkok voters conducted by Nation Group between April 7 and 12 predicts 14 Bangkok seats for Pheu Thai, 10 for Move Forward, five for the Democrat Party, two for Thai Sang Thai, and just one each for the United Thai Nation Party and Palang Pracharath.

I predict the guys with the guns and tanks will win the election.

The pretend 'who will win' stories in the media is just propaganda to try to legitimise the 'surprise' results.

[OneMoreFarang]

21 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Tax reductions are the same thing anyway - more money in your pocket either way. 

Most Thais don't pay income tax. Having 10,000B extra to spend feels very different than some tax deduction at the end of the year. 

[NONG CHOK]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

No, that is not what we all think.

Many of us, who were here then Thaksin was PM, know about his crimes and we are not surprised that he was sentenced to jail, just like other criminals. 

Whether you like Thaksin or not he did support the real Thai people. Everywhere you go in the major Thai cities it's dominated by Chinese, their families migrated to Thailand many years ago and their money took over. Go up country where my  wife comes from and you'd be shocked if you seen how people are forced to live. May I add many are working for 100 baht per day and still have to support their families.

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

name me a single country, with a govt elected by THE PEOPLE (democratically) where promises of tax reductions, social security payments will be increased etc  is considered as not being pro-democracy. You can't because they ALL do it as part of their election promises..

It doesn't matter what your opinion is of Thaksin, if THE PEOPLE vote for Pheu Thai then that is democracy, regardless of who allegedly runs the party.

Your extremely blinkered opinions of Thaksin are affecting your better judgement. Better you cease posting your hatred for Thaksin as I'm sure most of the members on here are fed up with your never ending hatred for him.

Oh come now, have some sympathy - bastards burnt down his favourite bus stop along back!

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, NONG CHOK said:

Whether you like Thaksin or not he did support the real Thai people. Everywhere you go in the major Thai cities it's dominated by Chinese, their families migrated to Thailand many years ago and their money took over. Go up country where my  wife comes from and you'd be shocked if you seen how people are forced to live. May I add many are working for 100 baht per day and still have to support their families.

What are "real Thai people"?

Those farmers who borrow money to buy seeds and fertilizer?

The middlemen who are happy to lend those farmers money - for huge interest?

The influential people which seem to exist all over Thailand?

 

I know that some people in Thailand live in not so nice conditions. I also know that many of them don't even try to have a better future. Now, with the internet everywhere, they could learn many things, they could do online business, they could make money and work on a better life.

Or they play online games and facebook and drink cheap whisky and moan about how bad life is.

[BenStark]

13 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Most Thais don't pay income tax. Having 10,000B extra to spend feels very different than some tax deduction at the end of the year. 

Thanks for confirming that the PT election promise will be beneficial for the average POOR Thai, while tax deductions will only be for the rich elite

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, BenStark said:

Thanks for confirming that the PT election promise will be beneficial for the average POOR Thai, while tax deductions will only be for the rich elite

Define "beneficial".

I am sure most of them will waste it within days.

They could think twice how they could use it to improve their lives. They could invest it in some business or computer or something which will help them to learn and earn more money.

How many will do that?

 

The 10k policy is clearly designed so that the poor vote for the savior Thaksin. The money will be mostly wasted - and paid by the taxpayers including myself. 

[BenStark]

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Define "beneficial".

I am sure most of them will waste it within days.

They can not waste it since there are conditions, and one of them was that they only can use it in shops to buy food and life necessities.

4 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

They could invest it in some business or computer or something which will help them to learn and earn more money.

How many will do that?

That shows actually how poor minded (I avoid using the word educated) you are.

 

It is clear that although, you as a foreigner are not affected whichever government is in power, you are simply grinding an axe with Thaksin.

 

I wonder what the real reason is. Has it anything to do with underage girls taken out of bars?

[OneMoreFarang]

19 minutes ago, BenStark said:

They can not waste it since there are conditions, and one of them was that they only can use it in shops to buy food and life necessities.

That shows actually how poor minded (I avoid using the word educated) you are.

 

It is clear that although, you as a foreigner are not affected whichever government is in power, you are simply grinding an axe with Thaksin.

 

I wonder what the real reason is. Has it anything to do with underage girls taken out of bars?

It seems you are running out of arguments that you have to aim so low.

There were lots of young girls in bars while Thaksin was in charge. Should I love him for that?

 

Let's see what those conditions in the shops will be. It's easy to write rice on the bill and sell a bottle of alcohol. Many laws and regulations exist - and then they are ignored.