What can be done to make Thai Roads safer?

[anrcaccount]

Mandate and enforce helmet wearing.

 

Through some inexplicable mix of fear, media, acceptance of authority and culture, Thais adopted mass masking in response to covid. Millions of them still today, make the effort to buy, carry and wear these things everywhere. 

 

Trying to get the same thing occurring, but for helmet wearing, would save many, many more lives than the masking ever has.

 

 

[Foreign Jim]

Teach Thais how to drive would be a good place to start. 

[Foreign Jim]

On 5/13/2023 at 10:26 AM, Toolong said:

*sorry - forgot to add that I can't recall what 'roundabouts' are called in other English-speaking countries. ????

Circle is what they were called 'back home.'

Edited May 15, 2023 by Foreign Jim

[BarraMarra]

https://www.facebook.com/100000995276884/videos/3588059231237217/

 

This is what your up against riding around in Asia.

[Toolong]

18 hours ago, Foreign Jim said:

Circle is what they were called 'back home.'

Nice and simple. Couldn't be more descriptive! ????????????

[kwilco]

This survey OP shows a total lack of understanding of road safety - they are just a load of archaic mist=conceptions about road safety that would have no significant effect in the real world..

If you can't ask the right questions, you will never get the right answers

It is the abject lack of knowledge that bolsters up the miserable lack of progress on road safety in Thailand

 

[kwilco]

Why Thailand must adopt the "safe System" -

 

Road safety is a pressing public health concern worldwide, and Thailand is no exception. Ranking among the top ten causes of death in the country, road accidents account for a significant number of fatalities and injuries, particularly within certain demographic groups.

https://apps.who.int/iris/handle/10665/258545

 

 

Thailand's approach to road safety is outdated and fundamentally flawed. Despite numerous road safety campaigns launched by provinces, cities, and organizations throughout the country, such efforts have proven largely ineffective.

 

This essay explores the reasons behind these failures and emphasizes the urgent need for Thailand to embrace the "Safe System" to mitigate road accidents. Additionally, it addresses the misconceptions and lack of understanding among foreign drivers regarding road safety in Thailand.

 

The Safe System:

The Safe System, developed in Sweden from the 1950s onwards, presents a comprehensive approach to road safety. It aims to minimize the number of deaths and serious injuries on the road by acknowledging that humans make mistakes. The Safe System emphasizes the importance of designing the road transport system to protect all road users, even if errors occur.

 

Key Principles of the Safe System:

1. Safe roads: Roads should be designed to minimize the risk of crashes and reduce their severity. This includes measures like ensuring adequate lane widths, clear road markings, and appropriate lighting.
2. Safe speeds: Managing speeds helps to decrease the risk and severity of crashes. Measures such as setting appropriate speed limits, utilizing speed cameras, and designing roads to encourage drivers to slow down are crucial.
3. Safe vehicles: Vehicles should be designed to minimize the risk of crashes and reduce their consequences. This can be achieved by improving vehicle crashworthiness, equipping vehicles with advanced safety technologies, and conducting regular vehicle inspections.
4. Safe people: Educating and encouraging road users to behave safely is vital. Measures such as driver training, educational campaigns, and the enforcement of traffic laws contribute to this aspect of the Safe System.

 

https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/thailand/roadsafety/overview-en-final-25-7-19.pdf?sfvrsn=f9d7a862_2

 

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/safe-system#:~:text=The%20Safe%20System%20is%20an,are%20embedded%20within%20Vision%20Zero.

 

By implementing the Safe System, countries worldwide have witnessed significant reductions in road fatalities and injuries, making roads safer for everyone.

 

The "5 Es" of Implementation:

To successfully implement the Safe System, the following five principles, often referred to as the "5 Es," must be considered:

1. Engineering: Focus on designing safe vehicles and roads.
2. Education: Emphasize road safety education in schools, through testing, public information campaigns, and lifelong learning.
3. Enforcement: Strengthen law enforcement through trained police, an effective court system, practical legislation, and penalties.
4. Emergency: Ensure the presence of well-trained first responders and establish universal emergency response systems and hospital departments.
5. Evaluation: Conduct examinations, measurements, and calibrations of crash scenes, and compile internationally recognized statistics.

 

Thailand's Failure to fully Adopt the Safe System:

Thailand has fallen short in all aspects of implementing the Safe System. Despite its holistic nature, the country has only addressed isolated issues, yielding minimal impact on road safety over the past three decades.

 

International Examples:

Countries that have adopted the Safe System approach have witnessed significant improvements in road safety. For instance:

1. Sweden: The Safe System has been an integral part of Sweden's road safety strategy since the 1990s, leading to substantial reductions in road fatalities. The country aims to achieve zero deaths by 2050. = https://road-safety.transport.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021-07/erso-country-overview-2017-sweden_en.pdf

 

2. The Netherlands: Another leader in Safe System adoption, the Netherlands has implemented measures such as building cycle paths, reducing speed limits in urban areas, and implementing various traffic calming measures.

https://swov.nl/en/news/sustainable-safety-short-history-safe-system-approach-netherlands

 

3. New Zealand: Since 2010, New Zealand has been one of the first countries outside Europe to embrace the Safe System approach, resulting in notable progress in reducing road fatalities, particularly among vulnerable road users.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/sh16-kaukapakapa-school-speed-zone/safe-system-approach/#:~:text=The%20safe%20system%20approach%20recognises,loss%20of%20life%20or%20limb.

 

4. Australia: Australia has also adopted the Safe System approach, focusing on it as a key strategy in the National Road Safety Strategy 2021-2030. However, the country still has work to do to fully implement it across all states. 5. France: France's road death rate, previously on par with Thailand's in the 1970s (32.7 per 100,000 population), has significantly decreased to 3.9 per 100,000 through the implementation of the Safe System.

https://thinkroadsafety.sa.gov.au/road_safety_strategy/road_safety_strategy_to_2031/the_safe_system_approach#:~:text=%E2%80%9CSafe%20System%E2%80%9D%20is%20the%20Australian,crash%20forces%20before%20harm%20occurs

 

 

The Ignorance Surrounding Road Safety in Thailand:

It is evident that Thai authorities, the Thai public, and even expatriates lack awareness of road safety science and policies, as well as the fundamental principles and practices associated with road safety. Consequently, they remain unaware of the risks and hazards associated with driving and the appropriate measures to mitigate them. They make up a significant part of the numbers of foreigners killed and injured in RTIs - https://www.nationthailand.com/thailand/general/40023780

 

Expatriates, in particular, often lack knowledge of the basic rules of the road, traffic signals, signs, and markings, as well as general driving etiquette and the nuanced aspects of road use in Thailand. They tend to impose their home country's driving standards on Thai roads, failing to understand the local context.

Furthermore, expatriates may underestimate the risks associated with driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol, overestimate their driving skills, and engage in risky behaviours that increase the likelihood of accidents and injuries. This attitude  or “freedom” may also discourage their support for road safety policies and initiatives, such as improved infrastructure or stricter traffic law enforcement, as they perceive them as excessive regulations. See the number of times the cliché “nanny state” is referred to.

 

Conclusion:

Thailand urgently needs a comprehensive shift in attitude towards road safety, involving both top-down initiatives and grassroots efforts. It is disheartening to observe that even individuals from countries with low road death rates remain uninformed about road safety, as evidenced by their attitudes towards driving in Thailand.

 

Adopting the Safe System and educating both the public and expatriates on its principles are crucial steps to improve road safety in Thailand. The country can learn from the successes of nations that have embraced this approach and implement comprehensive measures aligned with the "5 Es." Through these concerted efforts, Thailand can make significant progress in reducing road accidents, making its roads safer for everyone.

[brewsterbudgen]

Give it around 20 years until most cars are autonomous/AI driven.  

[kwilco]

31 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Give it around 20 years until most cars are autonomous/AI driven.  

It's true that the nature of road transport will change - but you use the expression "cars" - in fact the need for mobility and communication is only partially met by "cars". It won't b simply. matter of replacing private cars with private self-driven cars. In fact a significant portion of vehicles on Thai roads are already nearly 20 years old now and you are talking about replacing millions of vehicles.

One has to consider what alternatives will be available - both on long and short journeys.

Furthermore one has to consider the environmental impacts that are linked to road safety.

Edited May 25, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

On 5/15/2023 at 7:15 AM, Foreign Jim said:

Teach Thais how to drive would be a good place to start. 

They know - it's foreigners who over estimate their own driving skills that come up with this kind of comment.

[it is what it is]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Give it around 20 years until most cars are autonomous/AI driven.  

possibly. but that would be new cars, most people buy a used car and cars today are so reliable compared to cars in the past they are going to be around for decades

[quake]

On 5/15/2023 at 3:55 PM, BarraMarra said:

https://www.facebook.com/100000995276884/videos/3588059231237217/

 

This is what your up against riding around in Asia.

Yeap,  that's about right.  

[proton]

Puzzles me how at a junction with traffic lights you can still turn left, or sometimes carry on straight ahead trough reds if you are in the left lane, why bother with lights at all.

[VocalNeal]

9 minutes ago, proton said:

Puzzles me how at a junction with traffic lights you can still turn left, or sometimes carry on straight ahead trough reds if you are in the left lane, why bother with lights at all.

It is simply different to what you are used to.????  Many counties allow the equivalent of  "left" turn on red. Simply adapt. 

There are many traffic idiosyncrasies around the world.

 

Where I live they have taken down one set of lights and erected a mini roundabout. It works, after a fashion.

Edited May 26, 2023 by VocalNeal

[IvorBiggun2]

On 5/13/2023 at 5:38 AM, CharlieH said:

A 200bt fine is NOT going to do anything as a deterrent.

Nor is a 15,000 Baht fine. Most Thais just do not pay traffic fines. On the spot vehicle confiscation, with the vehicle owner paying the tow charges on top, would be somewhat better. No fine paid by a certain time then the vehicle should be crushed.

Talk about discrimination.

Traffic violations	Fine
Driving without a license	200฿(official) / 500฿-1,000฿(tourist)

Edited May 26, 2023 by IvorBiggun2

[ravip]

In my opinion, establishing the rule of law strictly and impartially will definitely address this issue (and many others) - not only in Thailand, anywhere on this planet!

 

Getting it right 100% might be an impossible task where human beings are concerned, but raising it at least to an acceptable level will solve many issues and make life that much more pleasanter.

 

Unfortunately, this seems to be a tough issue...

[proton]

 

21 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

It is simply different to what you are used to.????  Many counties allow the equivalent of  "left" turn on red. Simply adapt. 

There are many traffic idiosyncrasies around the world.

 

Where I live they have taken down one set of lights and erected a mini roundabout. It works, after a fashion.

I don't drive here I prefer the Mrs puts up with it. Sometimes amusing, stopped at a red on a major road the other week, another car stoped beside us. Then he drives off, still on red, so she follows him. Her reasoning was it was OK as the other car had done it ???? She is another one that never stops on a zebra in case cars behind run into us!

[VocalNeal]

3 minutes ago, proton said:

She is another one that never stops on a zebra in case cars behind run into us!

I never stop either in case the vehicle behind doesn't. That scenario makes it less safe for the pedestrian. Better to pass and leave the road clear.

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, proton said:

Puzzles me how at a junction with traffic lights you can still turn left, or sometimes carry on straight ahead trough reds if you are in the left lane, why bother with lights at all.

And those with a turn right arrow, not allowed, even with no oncoming traffic when the arrow is red.

[brianthainess]

2 hours ago, brianthainess said:

And those with a turn right arrow, not allowed, even with no oncoming traffic when the arrow is red.

In the UK one can a pull to the center of road and wait for no oncoming traffic and turn right with a red arrow, in most situations.

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

3 hours ago, proton said:

She is another one that never stops on a zebra in case cars behind run into us!

I never stop either in case the vehicle behind doesn't. That scenario makes it less safe for the pedestrian. Better to pass and leave the road clear.

IF in a car, I stop...  because thats what I’m supposed to do, and if I don't and hit the Pedestrian the trouble coming my way is significantly amplified. I also try and stop / slow early enough so that its obvious to the car behind what I’m doing - I’ve never been rear ended at a pedestrian crossing yet... 

 

That said, on a motorcycle, I dont stop unless the car already has (then I move to the front of the car to ensure I’m shielded). IF I’m first at the a pedestrian crossing, then depending on foot traffic I may just go through (I dont want to be the first to stop and risk getting hit by a car)... If its  lights at junction I’ll pull to the side so that any idiot who’s not looking and is about to plow through a junction won’t do so through me.

 

 

 

 

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, proton said:

Puzzles me how at a junction with traffic lights you can still turn left, or sometimes carry on straight ahead trough reds if you are in the left lane, why bother with lights at all.

Turning left at lights (or right in other countries) is quite common.

however it is only at certain lights in Thailand and the signage is RUBBISH - below one says you can, the other your can't..

 

 

[kwilco]

There is in Thailand. "priority from the left" rule which applies universally. This leads to a culture of people "coming out in front of me" - but normally this is quite legal.

 

The exceptions are on a road that is given priority - unfortunately this isn't as obvious as some Westerners may think

The other is at roundabouts where the priority is from the right; this leads to confusion amongst Thai drivers who culturally/instinctively still give way to traffic on the left.

 

 

THe mirror image of this problem existed in France and other European countries (remember the classic death toll at French crossroads - carrefours?) until the 1980s when clear legislation and road signs reduced it. In fact the "priorite a droite" rule still exists and foreign drivers especially the British need to be aware of this.

[LennyW]

On 5/13/2023 at 12:48 PM, Toolong said:

Yes, I agree that Thais seem a bit uninformed about their use, particularly the 'right of way' issue.

It does not work well because it conflicts with their thinking, as they approach a roundabout....Me first, Me first, Me first.....and having to give way to traffic approaching from the right....Lose face, Lose face, Lose face, impossible!!

 

[IvorBiggun2]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

There is in Thailand. "priority from the left" rule which applies universally.

Wrong. 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Wrong. 

And there is an example of why someone should not be driving on Thai roads.

Edited May 26, 2023 by kwilco

[2009]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:15 PM, Foreign Jim said:

Teach Thais how to drive would be a good place to start. 

They know fine well how to drive, they just have horrible attitudes.

[kwilco]

22 hours ago, LennyW said:

It does not work well because it conflicts with their thinking, as they approach a roundabout....Me first, Me first, Me first.....and having to give way to traffic approaching from the right....Lose face, Lose face, Lose face, impossible!!

 

Just a few racist cliches as a substitute for not understanding how to drive in Thailand.

[VocalNeal]

On 5/26/2023 at 5:27 PM, kwilco said:

In fact the "priorite a droite" rule still exists and foreign drivers especially the British need to be aware of this.

I would say that American drivers especially as they think everyone should drive on the other side of the road,

 

The whole conversation is stupid as we have to adapt to the circumstances we find ourselves in. It is not the same as where we learned to drive, the drivers are different. We simply have to concentrate and learn to adapt.

[chalawaan]

Import the NSW Highway Patrol Division, those bros don't mess around, and boy do those Australian traffic penalties hurt! 

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