Some Imm Offices refusing to do the 'change of Visa process' (applying for 90-day Non Imm O Visa from a VisaExempt entry)

[BritTim]

33 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

What I am not getting is how one can change a visa TM.86 when they don't actually have a visa to change, because they were not issued one from an overseas consulate.

Sort of true. They cannot use form TM86. If they entered visa exempt, they must use form TM87.

[proton]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Nothing moralistic about it.

Only hypocrites want Thailand to conform to international convention, when it suits.

It's their OWN rules we want them to conforms to, not international convention

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Yeah dream on, if certain offices say no, that means the answer is no. To challenge that is both naive and risky.

But that applies to ALL services they provide (or refuse to provide, as it were). Singling out the "conversion" to a non-immigrant visa is nonsensical.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Caldera said:

But that applies to ALL services they provide (or refuse to provide, as it were). Singling out the "conversion" to a non-immigrant visa is nonsensical.

I get your argument but I don't think it is nonsensical at all. 

There isn't one office that won't do retirement extensions at all even if some might have outlier rules.

This is a special case where some offices won't do these conversions AT ALL!

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

What I am not getting is how one can change a visa TM.86 when they don't actually have a visa to change, because they were not issued one from an overseas consulate.

 

Maybe we have all forgotten the old adage "At the discretion of the immigration officer".

They are not changing a visa, they came in visa exempt and applied for a 90 day NoN O which after 60 days they could apply for a one year extension off of that Non O

[Red Phoenix]

8 minutes ago, flexomike said:

They are not changing a visa, they came in visa exempt and applied for a 90 day NoN O which after 60 days they could apply for a one year extension off of that Non O

That process - applying for a Non Imm O Visa after having entered Thailand VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa - is referred to in the Thai Immigration regulations as the 'change of Visa' process.  I agree that this is somewhat confusing terminology used by Immigration, but they are sort-of correct as it is the ONLY case in which you can apply for a VISA at a local Immigration Office.  The local Imm Offices further only provide EXTENSIONS of your Permit to stay (which they often incorrectly refer to as Visa to make the confusion complete - lol).

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

if you want visa here big problems have to provide photos of home with woman and we need t.o do home visit visa take 2 months.Go LAOS?

What's the problem?

 

Sure, the IO seems to have confused this non-O based on retirement for one based on marriage, but easy solution.  Just give the IO what they want, assuming it's not a deal-breaker.  Photos and home visit no big deal.

 

"Okay officer!  I'll bring you some photos of me and my wife.  How many do you want?  Please call before you plan to visit.  I'll have the wife lay out some snacks and coffee.  Thanks!"

[Tuvoc]

2 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I wonder in the cases of Mae Sai and Roi-Et above whether the use of an agent would have ameliorated the procedure

I don't think there are any agents that use Mae Sai or Chiang Rai offices. At least there weren't a couple of years ago when I searched regarding Chiang Rai.

[Tuvoc]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I've been trying to tell people that immigration offices do have the right to refuse to do these.

But people still don't believe me. 

 

The Integrity Legal youtube channel says the same thing, that people should not assume that it is always possible, because it isn't.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

The Integrity Legal youtube channel says the same thing, that people should not assume that it is always possible, because it isn't.

Yes they do say that.

They're not always right but they're not always wrong either.

But they are trying to sell legal services. 

[Felton Jarvis]

I had a similar problem at Jomtien Immigration. I came in on a tourist visa and had about two weeks left on it when I applied. The woman who is in charge of. the procedure threw a fit and told me two weeks was “not enough time”.  I had to go to Laos and get my “O Visa” there. Totally unnecessary because they can’t even pick their noses in a two week period. Unbelievable incompetence. 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I had a similar problem at Jomtien Immigration. I came in on a tourist visa and had about two weeks left on it when I applied. The woman who is in charge of. the procedure threw a fit and told me two weeks was “not enough time”.  I had to go to Laos and get my “O Visa” there. Totally unnecessary because they can’t even pick their noses in a two week period. Unbelievable incompetence. 

It's been standard for many years for there to a cutoff date.

If you had posted here beforehand you would have learned about the need to apply early.

[Red Phoenix]

50 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

What's the problem?

 

Sure, the IO seems to have confused this non-O based on retirement for one based on marriage, but easy solution.  Just give the IO what they want, assuming it's not a deal-breaker.  Photos and home visit no big deal.

 

"Okay officer!  I'll bring you some photos of me and my wife.  How many do you want?  Please call before you plan to visit.  I'll have the wife lay out some snacks and coffee.  Thanks!"

The Imm Officer at Roi-Et Imm Office refused to handle his application and told him to apply in Laos.  Having to leave the country for a lazy Imm Officer or a rogue Imm Office is a bit of a problem wouldn't you agree?

And the pictures of house with wife/girlfriend which that officer mentioned were also asked at SriRacha for such a Non Imm O Visa (retirement) application, but the applicant there was lucky because his application was accepted on providing the pictures.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Red Phoenix

[NoDisplayName]

53 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

The Imm Officer at Roi-Et Imm Office refused to handle his application and told him to apply in Laos.  Having to leave the country for a lazy Imm Officer or a rogue Imm Office is a bit of a problem wouldn't you agree?

And the pictures of house with wife/girlfriend which that officer mentioned were also asked at SriRacha for such a Non Imm O Visa (retirement) application, but the applicant there was lucky because his application was accepted on providing the pictures.

I know, we think the IO should do it.....and they probably should.  But is this a "should" or a "must"?

 

The guy is in Thailand now, he has a non-O-A now.  He's not applying for a change of visa now, he's telling the IO he wants to go out, kill the O-A, then come back on a visa waiver and apply for an O.  Is this an absolute right, or something up to the discretion of the IO?

 

He's going to have to leave the country regardless in order to change to a non-O. Mae Sai would be convenient, Vientiene not so much.   IO sees it as "you gotta leave anyway...........so get the proper visa before you return."

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I had a similar problem at Jomtien Immigration. I came in on a tourist visa and had about two weeks left on it when I applied. The woman who is in charge of. the procedure threw a fit and told me two weeks was “not enough time”.  I had to go to Laos and get my “O Visa” there. Totally unnecessary because they can’t even pick their noses in a two week period. Unbelievable incompetence. 

Let's not confuse issues here. There isn't a single immigration office in Thailand that doesn't require a certain amount of time left from your current permission to stay when applying for a non-immigrant visa.

 

You failed to check their requirements, with a predictable outcome. That's completely different from the issues reported by the OP, where instead of telling an applicant what the requirements are, an IO flat out told them that it cannot be done. 

[aluc]

1 hour ago, Felton Jarvis said:

I had a similar problem at Jomtien Immigration. I came in on a tourist visa and had about two weeks left on it when I applied. The woman who is in charge of. the procedure threw a fit and told me two weeks was “not enough time”.  I had to go to Laos and get my “O Visa” there. Totally unnecessary because they can’t even pick their noses in a two week period. Unbelievable incompetence. 

Two weeks is nothing. Tomorrow will be 6 weeks since I applied for Non-O at Phuket immigration and when I checked online my visa application status its still under processing.

Actually today is the last day of my permission to stay in Thailand, but IO said there is nothing I or they can do, just have to wait when application will be processed at Hat Yai.

 

Not sure if they will fine me for overstay if visa will not be ready on Tuesday.

[Caldera]

1 minute ago, aluc said:

Two weeks is nothing. Tomorrow will be 6 weeks since I applied for Non-O at Phuket immigration and when I checked online my visa application status its still under processing.

Actually today is the last day of my permission to stay in Thailand, but IO said there is nothing I or they can do, just have to wait when application will be processed at Hat Yai.

 

Not sure if they will fine me for overstay if visa will not be ready on Tuesday.

You're not going on overstay while an application is under consideration by immigration. You really just have to wait.

[DrJack54]

20 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

IO sees it as "you gotta leave anyway...........so get the proper visa before you return."

The immigration officer is completely wrong..

There have been so so many threads where folk have exited Thailand to kill off the non O-A reenter visa exempt and obtain a non O using TM87 form.

Zero issues.

 

This thread is basically about couple of rogue officers/offices. 

[zzzzz]

4 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

In the instances above both parties want a retirement visa or extension of stay based on retirement. Is this correct? 

They enter Thailand visa exempt? Correct? 

So they don't or won't have a visa? Correct?

I believe visas are issued outside countries, all over the world not just Thailand?

 

So if they don't have a visa how can they get an extension based on retirement? Don't they have to leave the country get a visa then comeback and apply for an extension based on retirement. I am sure there is a procedure for that which any Thai consulate outside the country can explain.  

I entered  visa exempt Nov 24th and applied for a NON O Visa and then the visa extension (all  issued within 3 days in Dec) ) via an agent In Thailand
No problem

Edited June 4, 2023 by zzzzz

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, aluc said:

Actually today is the last day of my permission to stay in Thailand, but IO said there is nothing I or they can do, just have to wait when application will be processed at Hat Yai.

Your expiry date now means nothing as you application is under consideration.

No worries just wait. 

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, zzzzz said:

I entered  visa exempt Nov 24th and applied for a NON O Visa and then the visa extension (all  issued within 3 days in Dec) ) via an agent In Thailand
No problem

This thread has no mention of using an agent.

Everyone is aware of having agents obtain a non O and subsequent 12 month extension. 

 

Your point...

[aluc]

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Your expiry date now means nothing as you application is under consideration.

No worries just wait. 

Have there been any reports when Non-O visa application was accepted by local immigration but later rejected by IO from other province?

[Tuvoc]

Definitely annoying for the people having these issues. But annoying for me too because I have plans to do the same thing via the Chiang Rai office !  Although in my case, I'm killing off my Non-O extension in my UK passport and getting a new Non-O in my NZ passport. Oh well, I do have the option of getting the 90 day Non-O in NZ and I might just do that, the only downside is I think special insurance may be needed for the 90 days, I'll check the NZ website first for sure. 

[Tuvoc]

NZ Thai emabssy:

 

Extension of Stay and Re-Entry Permit - สถานเอกอัครราชทูต ณ กรุงเวลลิงตัน (thaiembassy.org)

 

Quote

• Granting extension of stay and change of type of visa is solely at the discretion of the Immigration Office.

 

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, aluc said:

Have there been any reports when Non-O visa application was accepted by local immigration but later rejected by IO from other province?

I have never seen one.

Relax your application will be approved. 

[NoDisplayName]

18 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The immigration officer is completely wrong..

There have been so so many threads where folk have exited Thailand to kill off the non O-A reenter visa exempt and obtain a non O using TM87 form.

Zero issues.

 

This thread is basically about couple of rogue officers/offices. 

I understand all that.

But is this not at the discretion of the IO?

That means IO has a choice.  Approve or deny, nothing guaranteed.

It's possible to do it elsewhere at the IO's discretion.

Seems (today at least) not possible at Chiang Rai at the IO's discretion.

Maybe tomorrow at Chiang Rai with a different IO?

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

But is this not at the discretion of the IO?

That means IO has a choice.  Approve or deny, nothing guaranteed

The "at the discretion of io" is true however generally refers to entries via air and land for entry.

Most commonly in reference to continuous stay using visa exempt etc.

 

Even businesses have that type of statement. eg Restaurant with small print "we reserve the right to refuse service"

Can that same immigration officer refuse to issue say a reentry permit. No.

 

The io,s are clerks.

"At io discretion" is dangerous option for some power tripping io in random office.

My guess is he was waiting for the farang to offer 5k (inducement) plus the 2k (visa fee)

 

The dragon lady at Jomtien being infamous for making up rules such as recent thread requiring funds in the bank for 2 months converting from visa exempt to non O retirement.

And she gets away with it.

Outrageous. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by DrJack54

[BritTim]

42 minutes ago, aluc said:

Have there been any reports when Non-O visa application was accepted by local immigration but later rejected by IO from other province?

If it happens at all, it is extremely rare. It would only happen if there was some uncorrectable defect in the application. What I have heard of is that region headquarters wanted a document not included in the original application, and a call from the local immigration office asking you to provide it before the application can proceed. 

[Woof999]

2 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

The woman who is in charge of. the procedure threw a fit

Don't take it personally. You were not the first by a long shot and you definitely wont be the last. Whether you did or didn't do anything to deserve it often doesn't make much difference.

[Red Phoenix]

28 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

The IOs are clerks.

"At ÍO discretion" is dangerous option for some power tripping IO in random office.

Well said and I totally agree!