Diabetes cases to double to 1.3 billion by 2050

[Yellowtail]

25 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Whether or not there is a cure, or a preventative treatment for Type 2 Diabetes, there is far too much money to be made from providing treatments and medicines for it to be attractive to the pharmaceutical industry to either research or develop such alternative treatments.

 

Just compare the cost of insulin here to the cost in the USA. The USA and other Western countries are where the research and development will take place. That is where the pharmaceutical industry is, that is where it has its clout. 

If there is so much money in providing treatments and medicines, why is it virtually EVERY doctor so strongly recommends diet and exercise? 

 

 

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If there is so much money in providing treatments and medicines, why is it virtually EVERY doctor so strongly recommends diet and exercise? 

 

 

Because he already got paid, and it's an automatic statement, just like prescribing medicines, some of which kill thousands yearly.

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Because he already got paid, and it's an automatic statement, just like prescribing medicines, some of which kill thousands yearly.

I'm no fan of the pharmaceutical industry, but which medicines kill thousands that don't save millions? 

 

In any event, what do you think the solution is, government takeover? 

[fredwiggy]

Opioids. When money is to be made, people do anything to get past what's moral and legal. This from one source........ Having the federal government lower drug prices directly—whether by negotiating with manufacturers or unilaterally setting prices—would save money for governments, employers, and consumers, but constitute a major policy initiative that turns away from reliance on market forces. Because of high U.S. prices, drug companies generate an estimated three-quarters of worldwide drug company profits in the United States.  That means not only that U.S. consumers pay a lot, but also that reducing U.S. drug prices would lower manufacturer revenue and return on investment, likely cutting funding for development of new drugs, with a slowing of innovation.  

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Opioids. When money is to be made, people do anything to get past what's moral and legal. This from one source........ Having the federal government lower drug prices directly—whether by negotiating with manufacturers or unilaterally setting prices—would save money for governments, employers, and consumers, but constitute a major policy initiative that turns away from reliance on market forces. Because of high U.S. prices, drug companies generate an estimated three-quarters of worldwide drug company profits in the United States.  That means not only that U.S. consumers pay a lot, but also that reducing U.S. drug prices would lower manufacturer revenue and return on investment, likely cutting funding for development of new drugs, with a slowing of innovation.  

Okay opioids, but they absolutely improve the lives for tens of millions. 

 

I so not see a solution in your response, unless you want to  lower that cost of medication at the expense of innovation. 

 

Almost no one pays retail for medication in the US. 

[fredwiggy]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Okay opioids, but they absolutely improve the lives for tens of millions. 

 

I so not see a solution in your response, unless you want to  lower that cost of medication at the expense of innovation. 

 

Almost no one pays retail for medication in the US. 

More caring doctors who thoroughly monitor their patients and what they initially give them. People overdose because they complain that the medicine isn't working, when a lot want to be numb. Fentanyl is given and kills thousands yearly, so it's use should be curtailed or stopped. My ex wife is an example of over prescribing. She did have health problems and pain, but complained constantly that the medicines weren't working well, this after being prescribed Fentanyl AND Vicodin, Morphine or Dilaudid for "breakout " pain, which is another way of saying I feel better when I feel nothing. She died last year from a heart attack, at age 62, and I'm sure all the medicines they gave her only hurt her more than helped. Her doctor always kept filling her prescriptions with only a few minute visit, not taking into account the stress they were putting on her body. This happens daily everywhere, because they aren't willing to do their job and follow up with tests, talk sessions and monitoring. I didn't have any response to your question regarding costs, only provided a link. Money lost always has to be accounted for someway.

Edited July 11, 2023 by fredwiggy

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

More caring doctors who thoroughly monitor their patients and what they initially give them. People overdose because they complain that the medicine isn't working, when a lot want to be numb. Fentanyl is given and kills thousands yearly, so it's use should be curtailed or stopped. My ex wife is an example of over prescribing. She did have health problems and pain, but complained constantly that the medicines weren't working well, this after being prescribed Fentanyl AND Vicodin, Morphine or Dilaudid for "breakout " pain, which is another way of saying I feel better when I feel nothing. She died last year from a heart attack, at age 62, and I'm sure all the medicines they gave her only hurt her more than helped. Her doctor always kept filling her prescriptions with only a few minute visit, not taking into account the stress they were putting on her body. This happens daily everywhere, because they aren't willing to do their job and follow up with tests, talk sessions and monitoring. I didn't have any response to your question regarding costs, only provided a link. Money lost always has to be accounted for someway.

Sorry about your wife. 

[atpeace]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:34 PM, Sheryl said:

1. You are confusing neonatal diabetes with genetically caused diabetes. Many genetic problems do not cause disease immediately; "genetic" is not synonymous with "neonatal".  Type 1 diabetes is genetic in cause but does not usually first  manifest until later in childhood or adolescence.

 

2. Type 2 diabetes as previously mentioned can be due to acquired factors or genetics or a mixture of both. It is entirely possible for thin physically active people to develop type 2 diabetes and far from rare.  It also becomes more common with age. 

 

 

Maybe you didn't read the post I was replying to?  Sure you're busy but in your rush you seemed to erroneously read my post. .  The poster I replied to stated born with diabetes ( neonatal).   I never stated that type 1 is not genetic nor develops after birth and have stated this obvious truth in this thread.   Many people are predisposed genetically to type 1 diabetes which is greatly exacerbated by poor eating habits.   

 

I guess we disagree on "rare".  As you stated it is entirely possible which I agree but it is extremely rare?  Diabetes is of very little  concern for thin active individuals.  Add  healthy diet and the odds shrink even more. Maybe I should replace rare with extremely unlikely?  

 

Why people want to ignore the elephant in the room is odd but predictable.  It is unhealthy lifestyles that have caused this diabetes epidemic. It is an awful disease to cope with for many and ignoring the "root" cause  and focusing on the outliers seems nuts to me but maybe I'm missing something.  

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by atpeace
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[herfiehandbag]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

If there is so much money in providing treatments and medicines, why is it virtually EVERY doctor so strongly recommends diet and exercise? 

 

 

The problem I describe lies not so much with the doctors as with the pharmaceutical industry.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

Maybe you didn't read the post I was replying to?  Sure you're busy but in your rush you seemed to erroneously read my post. .  The poster I replied to stated born with diabetes ( neonatal).   I never stated that type 1 is not genetic nor develops after birth and have stated this obvious truth in this thread.   Many people are predisposed genetically to type 1 diabetes which is greatly exacerbated by poor eating habits.   

 

I guess we disagree on "rare".  As you stated it is entirely possible which I agree but it is extremely rare?  Diabetes is of very little  concern for thin active individuals.  Add  healthy diet and the odds shrink even more. Maybe I should replace rare with extremely unlikely?  

 

Why people want to ignore the elephant in the room is odd but predictable.  It is unhealthy lifestyles that have caused this diabetes epidemic. It is an awful disease to cope with for many and ignoring the "root" cause  and focusing on the outliers seems nuts to me but maybe I'm missing something.  

 

What is the "elephant in the room" and who is ignoring it?

 

Is there anyone in the thread that have claimed diet and exercise are important? 

 

 

[Lacessit]

Type 2 diabetes is partly genetic, my father had it.

 

I have avoided diabetes with diet and exercise. I was borderline diabetic until I decided to reduce my BMI from overweight to normal. I did a lot of research before embarking on the diet I designed for myself.

I banned sugar, processed foods, high carbohydrate vegetables, fruit, and grains. The small amount of alcohol I drink once a week is spirits only. No beer, it is loaded with carbohydrates.

I eat plenty of protein and dairy products, cheese and yoghurt. The only vegetables I eat are cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower and green beans. For fruit, strawberries, blueberries and apples. Once a week, I'll have a treat of bangers and mash, or ice-cream.

 

I'm a firm believer in the adage if you don't measure it, you can't control it.

My body mass went from 93 kg to 78 kg. My waistline decreased by 3 inches. My fasting blood sugar reduced from 124 mg/dL to 100, and my HbA1C went down from 5.7 to 5.5.

 

It is not generally known the uptake rate of sugar in many cancer cells is much faster than in normal cells, and forms the basis of PET scans. Why feed them?

 

I am not saying my diet will work for everyone, it certainly worked for me.

 

There are medications for Type 2 diabetes, such as metformin. My stance on pharmaceuticals is they almost invariably place an extra burden on the kidneys and liver.

 

When doctors recommend diet and exercise for avoiding Type 2 diabetes, they know what they are talking about. IMO it is lack of willpower that causes many to develop the condition, when it is preventable.

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

Whether or not there is a cure, or a preventative treatment for Type 2 Diabetes, there is far too much money to be made from providing treatments and medicines for it to be attractive to the pharmaceutical industry to either research or develop such alternative treatments.

 

Just compare the cost of insulin here to the cost in the USA. The USA and other Western countries are where the research and development will take place. That is where the pharmaceutical industry is, that is where it has its clout. 

Any medication for diabetes is of great interest to the pharmaceutical industry.

 

By definition, the pharmaceutical industry develops pharmaceuticals. Not exercise programs or diets. It is what it does. Just lke the dairy industry develops dairy products not fruits.

 

There are other agencies and sectors that research effects of exercise, diet, heredity etc. And professional associations and public health agencies which develop and issue treatment and prevention guidelines.  With respect to type 2 diabetes these consistently stress diet and exercise as first line of both prevention and management.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

When doctors recommend diet and exercise for avoiding Type 2 diabetes, they know what they are talking about. IMO it is lack of willpower that causes many to develop the condition, when it is preventable.

 Therd is considerably more involved in compulsive eating and obesity than just willpower.  It seems to those for whom willpower aone works like that is a all that  is needed, and for them it is the case.  But it is not so for many. Anxiety and depression orders, variations and disturbances in  brain chemistry, hormonal imbalances are but a few of the factors often at play. 

 

Depression and stress also often play a big role in lack of exercise. As often does employment; it is not easy for someone working long hours at a sedentary job to get enough exercise.

 

People are wired differently. Some people experience a pleasurable endorphin rush with exercise but some do not; for those who do, it is much easier to take up and maintain a regular program than it is for others.  I am in the latter camp; I never feel good from exercise. I force myself to maintain a (modest)  fitness regime and I like the result but the process is always  unpleasant and I really have to force myself.  Conversely some people get literally addicted to things like jogging and may even do it to excess becxuse it feels so good to them.

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 Therd is considerably more involved in compulsive eating and obesity than just willpower.  It seems to those for whom willpower aone works like that is a all that  is needed, and for them it is the case.  But it is not so for many. Anxiety and depression orders, variations and disturbances in  brain chemistry, hormonal imbalances are but a few of the factors often at play. 

 

Depression and stress also often play a big role in lack of exercise. As often does employment; it is not easy for someone working long hours at a sedentary job to get enough exercise.

 

People are wired differently. Some people experience a pleasurable endorphin rush with exercise but some do not; for those who do, it is much easier to take up and maintain a regular program than it is for others.  I am in the latter camp; I never feel good from exercise. I force myself to maintain a (modest)  fitness regime and I like the result but the process is always  unpleasant and I really have to force myself.  Conversely some people get literally addicted to things like jogging and may even do it to excess becxuse it feels so good to them.

 

 

 

 

I understand the term "comfort food" is used for high sugar and carbohydrate. It would be interesting to know what proportion of people have genuine disorders, and who eat too much and drink too much, out of habit and the social milieu.

 

There are hundreds of Youtube videos, with cardio and stretching exercises, which only take 10 or 20 minutes to complete. Two of them are in my daily routine.

 

I don't get any pleasure out of exercise, except when it is golf. I regard it as a discipline I need to maintain, to assist and extend my quality of life. Swimming and climbing stairs are boring, but necessary.

 

Having said that, I do have a sense of accomplishment in weaning myself off four different pharmaceuticals, which doctors had me on for decades. My eGFR has improved considerably by doing so.

 

I also regard mental exercise as important, and have various strategies. Posting on ASEAN is only one of them..

 

[Lacessit]

On 7/12/2023 at 1:14 AM, Sheryl said:

Any medication for diabetes is of great interest to the pharmaceutical industry.

 

By definition, the pharmaceutical industry develops pharmaceuticals. Not exercise programs or diets. It is what it does. Just lke the dairy industry develops dairy products not fruits.

 

There are other agencies and sectors that research effects of exercise, diet, heredity etc. And professional associations and public health agencies which develop and issue treatment and prevention guidelines.  With respect to type 2 diabetes these consistently stress diet and exercise as first line of both prevention and management.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At risk of sounding conspiracy theorist, the pharmaceutical industry has a vested interest in developing medications for which there is an ongoing need, sometimes for the lifetime of a patient.

I suspect if there was a competition for the research dollar between a drug which had to be taken regularly, and one which cured a condition permanently with only a couple of doses, the former would win out most times.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

At risk of sounding conspiracy theorist, the pharmaceutical industry has a vested interest in developing medications for which there is an ongoing need, sometimes for the lifetime of a patient.

I suspect if there was a competition for the research dollar between a drug which had to be taken regularly, and one which cured a condition permanently with only a couple of doses, the former would win out most times.

Were there no competition perhaps, but the first company that comes up with a drug that cures diabetes for life in a six-month treatment regiment, makes a lot of money, and the people that develop it get their names on buildings and whatnot. 

 

Getting $50K today, is better than fighting with ten other companies over $1k a month.

 

Why were drugs developed to cure hepatitis C rather than just to contain it? 

 

 

[h90]

On 7/11/2023 at 10:07 AM, Yellowtail said:

If there is so much money in providing treatments and medicines, why is it virtually EVERY doctor so strongly recommends diet and exercise? 

 

 

I can't see any big push for diet recommendation and exercise....actually they still come with the high carbohydrate food pyramid. And high blood pressure and the cholesterol topic it is even worse.....

 

[h90]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Were there no competition perhaps, but the first company that comes up with a drug that cures diabetes for life in a six-month treatment regiment, makes a lot of money, and the people that develop it get their names on buildings and whatnot. 

 

Getting $50K today, is better than fighting with ten other companies over $1k a month.

 

Why were drugs developed to cure hepatitis C rather than just to contain it? 

 

 

Good that you mention the hepatitis C medicine.....there were big complains from the big shareholders that they should not do that again as it is unsustainable business. They complained exactly about that....It is the favorite example from all the conspiration talk show hosts.

[Yellowtail]

43 minutes ago, h90 said:

Good that you mention the hepatitis C medicine.....there were big complains from the big shareholders that they should not do that again as it is unsustainable business. They complained exactly about that....It is the favorite example from all the conspiration talk show hosts.

Do you have anything that supports this nonsense? 

[Yellowtail]

45 minutes ago, h90 said:

I can't see any big push for diet recommendation and exercise....actually they still come with the high carbohydrate food pyramid. And high blood pressure and the cholesterol topic it is even worse.....

 

Who are "they"? 

 

Have you been to a doctor for pre-diabetes that has not recommended diet and? 

 

Are we not inundated with public service messages about diet and exercise?