New Thailand Elite Visa packages from September 15th ?

[Pib]

32 minutes ago, Caldera said:

As you're talking about the LTR visa, all those amounts are USD, not THB.

Yea....brain fart....I should have said dollars vs baht where I was talking LTR requirements.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Pib

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

I wouldn't say the LTR program is "flawed for retirees" just because it does not include an option to substitute a large bank deposit in place of monthly passive income like for a Non-O retirement visa where  a person can use Bt800K large deposit to substitute for a Bt65K/month flow.    

 

Yes, it can be easily understood that the LTR Pensioner passive income requirement of Bt80K/year without any investment required....or passive income Bt40K-80K/year with Bt250K investment can be considered significantly more than what many average retirees receive and/or willing to investment in Thailand. 

 

But I'm sure the Thai govt made the conscious decision to "not" include a large bank deposit option to substitute for passive income/investment.  None of the various LTR visas offer a "large bank deposit method" to completely bypass annual income requirements.  But the Pensioner visa does allow a retiree with Bt40K but less than 80K/year passive income to add-in a Bt250K  "investment" in Thai govt bonds, property purchase like a condo, or foreign direct investment to meet Pensioner visa income requirement. 

 

Plus, the govt knew they already offered other retirement visa options like a Non O/OA retirement visa that offer the large bank deposit method...and of course the 10 year Non OX visa that offers a Bt3M large deposit method.  And to the best of my knowledge the 10 year Non-OX visa scheme went over like a lead balloon due to the BIG Bt3M bank deposit requirement.

 

So, actually the Thai govt offers several retirement type visas.....Non O, Non OA, Non OX, and LTR Pensioner although meeting the some of requirements for some folks can be challenging like the OA medical insurance requirement or not being at least 50 years old.  

 

And then we have the Elite Visa program where a retiree (over or under 50) with low monthly income "but" who has enough to pay the Elite visa fee from savings, by borrowing the money from a bank/family/friends/loan shark/etc., selling some owned real estate, selling their car/family jewels, etc.  As others have already said getting an Elite visa just boils down to passing an immigration police check and paying the Elite visa fee...basically, if you got the fee money then you'll get a Elite visa.

 

Yeap, various retiree visa choices with some of the visas being a good fit for some while not-so-good for others....but thank goodness there are various choices.   And yea, lowering the requirements/fees on all of the various retirement type visas (to include the Elite visas) would get more foreigners retiring to Thailand, but I'm a firm believer Thailand does not want too many foreigners and/or just any foreigner settling in Thailand.

 

Whoops....brain fart....typos....too late to correct....for the LTR requirements  I wrote Bt/Baht where I meant to write $/USD.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Yea....brain fart....I should have said dollars vs baht where I was talking LTR requirements.

I took the liberty of correctly your post. Let me know if any of my edits were not as you intended.

[sqwakvfr]

If the 5 year goes to 900,000 then my interest just died.  My current Retirement Ext expires in Jan 2024 and the 5 year was my next option.  Not anymore. At this rate Elite will have to hire more Russian and Mandarin speakers.  Russians and Chinese have fewer places to plant roots.  Most of us have other options.  

[Pib]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

I took the liberty of correctly your post. Let me know if any of my edits were not as you intended.

Thank you, Sir.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Both the increase in money in bank would not be a big deal for most. 

Also it's still your money.

 

Agents "disappear" ....say what.

 

Scaremongering at best. 

Hardly scaremongering, pragmatic and calculated risk/reward planning.

[Lucky Bones]

1 minute ago, sqwakvfr said:

I think for some us the issue besides $ is how many more years do we have left? I am almost 60 and the Elite Visa seems to be a less attractive option.  From my perspective the Elite Visa is being geared towards the young and wealthy.  If I was 40 or 45 I might consider the 10 or 20 option but back then I was busy working and building towards retirement in my 50's.  Oh well time to look deeply at the SRRV-Retirment Option in the PI. 

 

Fair call. 

I "retired to Thailand" at age 55.

Having smoked for 30+ years (quit for 13 years now) and earlier indulged in booze & soft drugs, didn't know how many years were left in the tank.

The yearly extension makes sense.

If you have a partner, do not waste the money on 10 year elite.

Put the cash in a separate account and work it down each year. Hopefully she can access the account (legally) when you leave our mortal coil.

She won't see any refund from a elite visa.????????

 

[JBChiangRai]

13 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I think for some us the issue besides $ is how many more years do we have left? I am almost 60 and the Elite Visa seems to be a less attractive option.  From my perspective the Elite Visa is being geared towards the young and wealthy.  If I was 40 or 45 I might consider the 10 or 20 option but back then I was busy working and building towards retirement in my 50's.  Oh well time to look deeply at the SRRV-Retirment Option in the PI. 

 

I took my 20 year elite out at the age of 62, I figure I won't reach 82 and if I do, I'll buy a 5 year or whatever is on offer.

[Rimmer]

An unattributed speculative post and reply has been removed

[humbug]

Last couple of days in articles attributed to the motorcycle gangs, police/immigration spent most of the article talking about changing the 'over 50 visa' and changing the extension laws, so nothing surpises about this regime, who are likely to stay in power for a few more years, Elite costing more is just part of a larger attack on reducing non-Chinese long term stayers and increasing Chinese long term stayers, we have all seen the huge signs for the last 8 years

 

All these latest moves will reduce western expats, unless they have a few million to lose, and increase Chinese long termers, who can get bank loans from Chinese banks with the okay from Thai/Chinese banks businesses, to buy companies, condos, houses, and in the near future gain more legal rights for their purchases, and only the few westerners will be able to compete

 

thats my take in it

 

Elite is just part of it as nearly 40% of new members are Chinese

[sqwakvfr]

1 hour ago, humbug said:

Last couple of days in articles attributed to the motorcycle gangs, police/immigration spent most of the article talking about changing the 'over 50 visa' and changing the extension laws, so nothing surpises about this regime, who are likely to stay in power for a few more years, Elite costing more is just part of a larger attack on reducing non-Chinese long term stayers and increasing Chinese long term stayers, we have all seen the huge signs for the last 8 years

 

All these latest moves will reduce western expats, unless they have a few million to lose, and increase Chinese long termers, who can get bank loans from Chinese banks with the okay from Thai/Chinese banks businesses, to buy companies, condos, houses, and in the near future gain more legal rights for their purchases, and only the few westerners will be able to compete

 

thats my take in it

 

Elite is just part of it as nearly 40% of new members are Chinese

I had a conversation with a Grab Driver today.  He pointed to the many Chinese Language signs on our drive in Chiang Mai and said the government is allowing “A soft Chinese Invasion”.  I agreed with him.  He also said many Thai people know the Chinese are dominating in Cambodia and are plundering it.  It seems like the informed Thai’s know what is happening but are powerless to do anything about it. Beside my age, things like this are the reason I would not invest in a 20 years non refundable visa.  If I was wealthy and in my 40’s my opinion would be different on the 20 year non refundable visa.  

[Pib]

1 hour ago, humbug said:

Last couple of days in articles attributed to the motorcycle gangs, police/immigration spent most of the article talking about changing the 'over 50 visa' and changing the extension laws, so nothing surpises about this regime, who are likely to stay in power for a few more years, Elite costing more is just part of a larger attack on reducing non-Chinese long term stayers and increasing Chinese long term stayers, we have all seen the huge signs for the last 8 years

 

All these latest moves will reduce western expats, unless they have a few million to lose, and increase Chinese long termers, who can get bank loans from Chinese banks with the okay from Thai/Chinese banks businesses, to buy companies, condos, houses, and in the near future gain more legal rights for their purchases, and only the few westerners will be able to compete

 

thats my take in it

 

Elite is just part of it as nearly 40% of new members are Chinese

When I read your comment that I bolded above, it reminded me of a comment made by one of the Elite Visa Sales Agents here in Thailand which very recently (30 July) said the "new" Elite packages may not be as suitable for the majority their Western clients who live in Thailand.   It was the Sales Agent in my 30 Jul/Sunday post above which included the Youtube video made by that Sales Agent.

 

Now such a statement can be taken several different ways but since the agent mentioned "new" packages it implied to me the new packages may offer new benefits which will be less desirable than current Elite benefits. 

 

We'll just have to wait and see until the govt Thailand Elite company makes official info public versus the leaks/bits-and-pieces/rumors/opinions/etc., that are currently floating around which this thread fits into.

 

Comment of the Elite Sales Agent

 

 

 

[Photoguy21]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:11 PM, Jacques Clouseau said:

It's a strange move.

Usually when what's on offer doesn't sell, you lower your prices, right ?

Not in Thailand. Poor sales means you increase the price.

[sqwakvfr]

The TPC ( Government ) will announce the Elite visa's NEW Packages formally in 1st Oct 2023 which is starting at 900K.THB and for the current package started at 5yrs 600k.THB will be discontinued soon.

For the new applicants if apply for the elite visa before 15 sept 2023 4.30pm(Thai time) still be the current one started 600kthb, unless will be the new one is tending to be higher price started at 900kthb.

There is no effected for any privileges for the elite member who already applied the current one. 

But for the Upgrading from 
EEA package 5yrs 600kthb to 20yrs 1mb or 2.14mb by the upgrade payment 400kthb or 1.498mb is required to apply the upgrade application form Before 15/8/2023, unless is not accepted and waiting for Jan 2024 New package upgrading is tending to be higher price.

The current packages attached the post.

Contact to Ms.Lee GSSA-Authorized Agent 
Line contact no: 0814552596
Whatsapp: +66814562596

 

900,0000 for 5 years. Amazing Thailand. 

[Klonko]

Visa requirements may be generally tigthened for "long term" stays because Thai authorities probably consider foreigners who can just afford Thai middle class standards for themselves and their Thai family not to add significant value to Thailand. The more the Thai economy is developping, the higher will be the expectations from "long term" staying foreigners. Foreigners with tight budgets - marriage with a Thai helps - can hope for continued inofficial schemes (and should not complain about "inefficient" bureaucracy).

[humbug]

11 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I had a conversation with a Grab Driver today.  He pointed to the many Chinese Language signs on our drive in Chiang Mai and said the government is allowing “A soft Chinese Invasion”.  I agreed with him.  He also said many Thai people know the Chinese are dominating in Cambodia and are plundering it.  It seems like the informed Thai’s know what is happening but are powerless to do anything about it. Beside my age, things like this are the reason I would not invest in a 20 years non refundable visa.  If I was wealthy and in my 40’s my opinion would be different on the 20 year non refundable visa.  

There must be a point to your reply to my post, because I didn't see it, if you can't see whats been happening for the last 8 years on many visas and crackdowns and pro-chinese hints, well one thing is key now, if you rely on 12 month visas with the recent conments I mentioned then good luck

[humbug]

15 minutes ago, Pib said:

When I read your comment that I bolded above, it reminded me of a comment made by one of the Elite Visa Sales Agents here in Thailand which very recently (30 July) said the "new" Elite packages may not be as suitable for the majority their Western clients who live in Thailand.   It was the Sales Agent in my 30 Jul/Sunday post above which included the Youtube video made by that Sales Agent.

 

Now such a statement can be taken several different ways but since the agent mentioned "new" packages it implied to me the new packages may offer new benefits which will be less desirable than current Elite benefits. 

 

We'll just have to wait and see until the govt Thailand Elite company makes official info public versus the leaks/bits-and-pieces/rumors/opinions/etc., that are currently floating around which this thread fits into.

 

Comment of the Elite Sales Agent

 

 

 

I think I must have hit a factual nerve in your LTR sales agent brain previously, with your low-end sales pitches trying to keep the LTR thead alive, I already have a visa for nearly 20 years, it's called Elite, and most of my post you replied to was anout China and 8 years of changes, as directed at the upcoming changes to over 50 visas, spoken in the national press yesterday by aka 'big joke'

 

good luck LTR sales agent

[humbug]

50 minutes ago, Klonko said:

Visa requirements may be generally tigthened for "long term" stays because Thai authorities probably consider foreigners who can just afford Thai middle class standards for themselves and their Thai family not to add significant value to Thailand. The more the Thai economy is developping, the higher will be the expectations from "long term" staying foreigners. Foreigners with tight budgets - marriage with a Thai helps - can hope for continued inofficial schemes (and should not complain about "inefficient" bureaucracy).

That can be one part, the other part is this regime for 8 years has become so greedy, so interwined into helping Chinese regional expansion policy, that a police/immigration head in yesterdays english paper online too, about arrests of outlaw gangs, spent the most of the article saying 800k in the bank is too cheap, and should want more investors on 5 year visas and ask the next government to change the visa extension laws, this is your typical gangster regime in charge, little rule of law, male-dominant, and greedy as hell

 

and Bangkok immigration last week was half empty with 'M' section (business section) a waste land of 5-10 people waiting, normally 70-80 people waiting, I know because my section is N which is next to it, they don't care anymore, they have hands in the corrupt Chinese bag of gold, and that's that, unless Move Forward Party and its future parties changes this regime, and the country for the better in a fairer more rules based way

[firestar]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:11 PM, Jacques Clouseau said:

It's a strange move.

Usually when what's on offer doesn't sell, you lower your prices, right ?

True, so maybe it is selling? 2022 they had 5000 new applications but that was almost exclusively in a six month period when Covid restrictions eased. So far in 2023 they've had 10 000 applications (50% of the cumulative amount of holders since 2014) and expect well over 20 000, doubling the amount of holders in one year.

 

One visit at the Elite offices would show you it is exploding, when I first got my visa in 2016, and for years, it was always empty, they knew me by name, now there is queues of people there and sitting in every seat filling applications

 

 

[firestar]

BTW some people miss the point, Elite was never meant to be a mass market program with a million people walking around with an elite visa. Their ideal scenario is around 10 000 applicants per year paying as much as the market dictates 10 000 people are willing to pay. Keeping it exclusive and making it profitable.

Edited August 1, 2023 by firestar

[Klonko]

1 hour ago, humbug said:

this regime for 8 years has become so greedy, so interwined into helping Chinese regional expansion policy

The potential of Chinese nationals living in China  (1) meeting LTR or new Elite requirements and (2) contemplating to flee an increasingly unfriendly environment  is probably huge and by far exceeding other foreign nationals. Therefore it makes sense to concentrate on the Chinese clientele. Thai come originally from Southern China, but I think money is the key driver, and Thailand has been navigating between China and the United States in the past.. On the contrary, if China is further expanding aggressively, the South East Asian countries will strengthen alliances between themselves and with other countries.  Same as with the new Silk Road and in Africa, where countries are realizing that investments from China come at a price and start to look for alternatives.

[humbug]

1 hour ago, Klonko said:

The potential of Chinese nationals living in China  (1) meeting LTR or new Elite requirements and (2) contemplating to flee an increasingly unfriendly environment  is probably huge and by far exceeding other foreign nationals. Therefore it makes sense to concentrate on the Chinese clientele. Thai come originally from Southern China, but I think money is the key driver, and Thailand has been navigating between China and the United States in the past.. On the contrary, if China is further expanding aggressively, the South East Asian countries will strengthen alliances between themselves and with other countries.  Same as with the new Silk Road and in Africa, where countries are realizing that investments from China come at a price and start to look for alternatives.

You missed the point, where I mention corruption using gold carrots and sticks by the Chinese with bags of gold and legal merging agreements, between Thailand and China, which always involve great benefits for the corrupted local regime, and one way traffic in benefits for Chinese, through, trade deals,future citinzenship, business ownership and land rights through full membership of belt and road, and side agreement of local national strategies of 20-25 years, merging laws of Thailand and Beijing, great for the Thai/Chinese wealthy elite, great for Chinese regional expansion, bad for 90% of the darker skin thais, and the rest of the expat community, or non-chinese community of foreigners

 

Nobody believes this regime is navagating between anything, it's why this regime and their Chinese partners, hate Move Forward Party so much, because Move forward plan to be a fairer society for thais, not this corrupt pro-Chinese, male-dominant gangster regime, that can take as they please, and gain wealth through connections eith Chinese/Thai businesses and the Chinese State, treating darker skin thais as low skilled imbiciles, only alive to make  money for the light skin chinese, sad, but thats where we are at, in this land right now

 

or the cheaper version and similar situation in Cambodia

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by humbug

[El Matador]

Damn I was going to save 1 million for the 20 years visa next year. But I guess I will need to change my plan now. I have a special visa in Vietnam to stay long time as plan B but I was keen to make Thailand as my main base.

I guess we are at the beginning of a new Chinese economic dependency era for Thailand and there is not much anyone can do. Chinese tourists don't seem very popular in Thailand. But Thailand may follow the path of Cambodia. Money talks. COVID + stupid Ukraine war have been great to promote this visa towards Chinese and Russian citizens. Let's face it, it will never be the same for us in the future. I wouldn't be surpised if Retirement visa also starts to become much more restrictive soon.

 

I am making maths. The entry visa at 900k would cost around $5000 a year. That hurts a bit ; it is a territory where it is harder to get the money back with the savings you make by living cheaper in Thailand.

I guess the 20 years will be at least 1.5M (if they make a 50% rise as for the 5 years), maybe even more if they stop the superior extension and go for the ones with perks. I red many times the perfs were costing them too much. Maybe they will keep some simple visas with little perks but who knows.

[Caldera]

5 hours ago, firestar said:

BTW some people miss the point, Elite was never meant to be a mass market program with a million people walking around with an elite visa. Their ideal scenario is around 10 000 applicants per year paying as much as the market dictates 10 000 people are willing to pay. Keeping it exclusive and making it profitable.

Funny you should say that. You obviously haven't been around very long, because one million was EXACTLY their target, to be reached within a few short years, when the program was launched.

 

They've become more realistic in the meantime, but out of necessity, not because they wouldn't just love to take a million people's money for the privilege.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Caldera

[redwood1]

This goes right along with the elite visa....... How convenient,the whole biker thing went down just in time when changes were most likely already planned for the elite visa....

 

There are a few words here that bother me in this press release....

 

Outdated........(He cited the outdated 1979 Immigration Act)...It seems to me the O visa has worked guite well....I dont get why its out dated.....Outdated means it needs to change.....

 

Only.............(easily live in Thailand only if they have 800,000 baht in their bank) Now here is a charged word, the word ONLY.........

 

800,000 is a good sum of money...Would a higher sum make things safer?.......Nope.....Not a bit......

Because most criminals worth their salt, are not short on money..........But the word ONLY is used like 800,000 is a pathetic sum of money.....

 

Not to mention I bet about 99.9 % of you guys have never had a run-in with a biker gang no matter how long you have lived in Thailand.....So the whole biker thing just does not hold much water..... 

 

 

 

 

Deputy National Police Chief Pol Gen Surachate Hakparn stated that the gang members tend to favor Thailand due to the lack of strict law enforcement and corrupt officials.

He cited the outdated 1979 Immigration Act, which allows foreigners aged above 50 to easily live in Thailand only if they have 800,000 baht in their bank account or an income certificate with a monthly salary not less than 65,000 baht.

This also tended to be the case of the suspects in Mack’s murder.

Due to the existence of these dangerous gangs, aware foreign tourists feel discouraged to visit Pattaya or invest in the Eastern Seaboard, causing huge damage to the country, Pol Gen Surachate said.

 

https://thepattayanews.com/2023/08/01/thai-police-pledge-to-eradicate-foreign-motorcycle-clubs-involved-in-alleged-criminal-activities/

Edited August 1, 2023 by redwood1

[papersource]

Wow, Big Joke says the “outdated” immigration act of 1979 is going to be amended. This is huge news.

 

Big Joke is very influential and in the know. Look for changes to the retirement extension scheme coming in 2024 would be a good bet. 

 

Anyone on retirement extension that wants more security and peace of mind should scramble now and get an application in for the Thailand Elite 20 year visa for 1 million baht before it is too late. 

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, papersource said:

Anyone on retirement extension that wants more security and peace of mind should scramble now and get an application in for the Thailand Elite 20 year visa for 1 million baht before it is too late. 

I couldn’t agree more. A very sensible move and exactly why I did it 4 years ago.

[mockingbird]

1 hour ago, papersource said:

Wow, Big Joke says the “outdated” immigration act of 1979 is going to be amended. This is huge news.

 

Big Joke is very influential and in the know. Look for changes to the retirement extension scheme coming in 2024 would be a good bet. 

 

Anyone on retirement extension that wants more security and peace of mind should scramble now and get an application in for the Thailand Elite 20 year visa for 1 million baht before it is too late. 

It's all speculation at the moment. Anyway, why would you throw away a million baht just because they may be upping the 800k money in the bank requirement?

[JBChiangRai]

33 minutes ago, mockingbird said:

It's all speculation at the moment. Anyway, why would you throw away a million baht just because they may be upping the 800k money in the bank requirement?

As you say it’s speculative. The million baht 20 year visa removes all the worry & stress of that speculation.

 

Stress is a killer, we should all be de—stressing our lives as much as possible.  I don’t care a fig what happens with retirement qualifications as I have my 20 year Elite. 

I used to find it incredibly stressful renewing my retirement extension every year. Not wearing the right shirt - rejected, come back. Get ATM slip showing balance on date of application -rejected.  You didn’t have form 3213A  in triplicate - rejected.  You didn’t bury form 3213A for 3 months & recycle them as firelighters - rejected.

 

Apologies to Douglas Adams

[ukrules]

3 hours ago, papersource said:

Wow, Big Joke says the “outdated” immigration act of 1979 is going to be amended. This is huge news.

It sure is big news.

 

What we have here is a classic example of the tail attempting to wag to dog.

 

He will be put back in his rightful place soon enough.

 

It's his job to study and then enforce the laws, not make them or even speculate on them really as that could well lead to all sorts of problems.

 

We've already seen extra judicial punishment systems implemented in Phuket (red cards), what will these absolute <deleted>tards dream up next?

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by ukrules