Medical Insurance.

[Nip]

Mea Culpa. I’m sorry I would like to ask advice on health insurance. I’ve spent the past four weeks trying to decide what company and type of policy is best to buy? What would be your opinion. I’m mid 60s in good health. Hardly drink don’t smoke exercise 5 days a week. I know the insurance companies set up to confuse and they’ve done a good job with me. I was hoping another Thaivisa member can help clear the fog. 

Thanx in advance. 

[mania]

Hopefully the Mods will move your question to either

https://aseannow.com/forum/121-insurance-in-thailand/

Or

https://aseannow.com/forum/23-health-and-medicine/

 

As you will likely get more answers but... Also you will find much info in those sub forum sections on insurance

 

This topic does come up often & the takeaway seems to be buy from International based not Thai based companies for a more stable price & coverage.

 

First given your age you may find it tough to find Thai based & if you do they will likely price you out of it in a couple years

I am your age & have recently been looking at Cigna Global

Edited August 19, 2023 by mania

[scubascuba3]

Remember insurers will desperately search for pre-existing conditions when you make a big claim, in mid 60s good chance you'll have things even if unknown to you

[georgegeorgia]

Wow looking at the quotes it's over $200 (US)  a month is the cheapest !

 

Honestly how do you expats afford this ?

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, georgegeorgia said:

Wow looking at the quotes it's over $200 (US)  a month is the cheapest !

 

Honestly how do you expats afford this ?

Must be at least several thousand who have no insurance at all.

 

A few will have the funds to self insure.

 

The rest just hope they don't get sick, but know the costs could well be way more than they can afford.

 

In this scenario it's worth regularly checking bed/meal etc costs at local government hospitals and checking if they have any lower prices available.  

 

In any even ensure your family are well aware which private hospitals are extremely expensive and avoid them.

 

I have a 'plan' which my Thai son is well aware of and I know he will follow the plan if needed:

- First night, maybe first 2 nights in a private lower cost hospital.

- Then my son will insist I be moved to a local quite good quality gov't hospital, about 3km away.

 

Son knows the more expensive hospital will insist I can't be moved. He's no push over, he's politely challenged and won before with his kids, always ensuring they get the best care. Had 2 incidents with a so called 5 star Bkk hospital. One case dr. was ill, replacements dr. changed the medicaion and said the child could go home. Second case son discovered the chart hanging on the foot of the bed was for another child and son's daughter had been receiving wrong medications for 3 days.  

 

E.g. now: 10 yo has a not serious cough which she's had many times before, hospital dr prescribes same as available over the counter in every pharmacy , wife is concerned and takes the girl to local private hospital. 

 

Walk into dr's room, first thing dr. says is '3 nights, 3 nights'. Nurse leaves the dr's consulting room to arrange a private hosp. room.

 

Son now always goes with his wife and kids and challenges / politely demands the doctor explain why '3 nights' and tells the nurse to wait, and son asks for dr. to explain what medications will be given as an inpatient. 

 

Several times the '3 nights' has reduced to zero nights and son now regularly says 'I will buy the medicine at local pharmacy not here at the hospital'. Dr. tries to object but patients can refuse to buy medications from hospitals.

[jerrymahoney]

43 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Remember insurers will desperately search for pre-existing conditions when you make a big claim, in mid 60s good chance you'll have things even if unknown to you

You left off the standard anecdotal proof:

 

"I have a friend who ..."

[Nip]

57 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Remember insurers will desperately search for pre-existing conditions when you make a big claim, in mid 60s good chance you'll have things even if unknown to you

Thankfully I don’t have any life threatening conditions and have had check ups. Just lingering problems with my back after a bicycle accident. And your absolutely right. 

[Nip]

36 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Must be at least several thousand who have no insurance at all.

 

A few will have the funds to self insure.

 

The rest just hope they don't get sick, but know the costs could well be way more than they can afford.

 

In this scenario it's worth regularly checking bed/meal etc costs at local government hospitals and checking if they have any lower prices available.  

 

In any even ensure your family are well aware which private hospitals are extremely expensive and avoid them.

 

I have a 'plan' which my Thai son is well aware of and I know he will follow the plan if needed:

- First night, maybe first 2 nights in a private lower cost hospital.

- Then my son will insist I be moved to a local quite good quality gov't hospital, about 3km away.

 

Son knows the more expensive hospital will insist I can't be moved. He's no push over, he's politely challenged and won before with his kids, always ensuring they get the best care. Had 2 incidents with a so called 5 star Bkk hospital. One case dr. was ill, replacements dr. changed the medicaion and said the child could go home. Second case son discovered the chart hanging on the foot of the bed was for another child and son's daughter had been receiving wrong medications for 3 days.  

 

E.g. now: 10 yo has a not serious cough which she's had many times before, hospital dr prescribes same as available over the counter in every pharmacy , wife is concerned and takes the girl to local private hospital. 

 

Walk into dr's room, first thing dr. says is '3 nights, 3 nights'. Nurse leaves the dr's consulting room to arrange a private hosp. room.

 

Son now always goes with his wife and kids and challenges / politely demands the doctor explain why '3 nights' and tells the nurse to wait, and son asks for dr. to explain what medications will be given as an inpatient. 

 

Several times the '3 nights' has reduced to zero nights and son now regularly says 'I will buy the medicine at local pharmacy not here at the hospital'. Dr. tries to object but patients can refuse to buy medications from hospitals.

Points well made and taken. Thank you. I recall many years ago my father at the time 64 saying over dinner he should up his insurance as at his age if he gets sick it’s most likely to be serious! Well within 6 weeks of increasing his coverage he was diagnosed with lung cancer. His medical bill in a private hospital for the three months he hung on for was over £65,000. 30 years ago. Thanks for replying. 

[Nip]

1 hour ago, mania said:

Hopefully the Mods will move your question to either

https://aseannow.com/forum/121-insurance-in-thailand/

Or

https://aseannow.com/forum/23-health-and-medicine/

 

As you will likely get more answers but... Also you will find much info in those sub forum sections on insurance

 

This topic does come up often & the takeaway seems to be buy from International based not Thai based companies for a more stable price & coverage.

 

First given your age you may find it tough to find Thai based & if you do they will likely price you out of it in a couple years

I am your age & have recently been looking at Cigna Global

Thank you for the links and comments they are much appreciated. I’ve set aside tomorrow to check the links you included and of course your advice is well founded. Thank you. 

[HampiK]

1 hour ago, mania said:

Hopefully the Mods will move your question to either

https://aseannow.com/forum/121-insurance-in-thailand/

Or

https://aseannow.com/forum/23-health-and-medicine/

 

As you will likely get more answers but... Also you will find much info in those sub forum sections on insurance

 

This topic does come up often & the takeaway seems to be buy from International based not Thai based companies for a more stable price & coverage.

 

First given your age you may find it tough to find Thai based & if you do they will likely price you out of it in a couple years

I am your age & have recently been looking at Cigna Global

I have Cigna Global now for 5 years. And yes, they are not cheap, but I feel better with them than with a Thai Insurance, who can raise the premiums or kick you out after a big claim.

In my opinion Cigna or April (international, not the Thai based version) are the ones to look at, if you have the spare money to spend.

[ezzra]

1 hour ago, georgegeorgia said:

Wow looking at the quotes it's over $200 (US)  a month is the cheapest !

 

Honestly how do you expats afford this ?

An 80 years old friend of mine, mostly unbothered with the regular ailments that most of us have in advanced age, is paying B. 200k+ a year to be comprehensibly insured  with a local insurer, and he's been doing so for several now.

[jerrymahoney]

Note this from Cigna Global *

 

2. Treatment for:
a) a pre-existing condition; or
b) any condition or symptoms which result
from, or are related to, a pre-existing
condition.

 

We will not pay for treatment for a
pre-existing condition of which the
policyholder was (or should reasonably have
been) aware at the date cover commenced,
and in respect of which we have not expressly
agreed to provide cover

 

* This insurance is provided by:
Cigna Life Insurance Company of Europe S.A.–N.V.
52 Avenue de Cortenbergh
1000 Brussels
Belgium

 

https://www.cignaglobal.com/dvc-pdfs/CLICE-EP19/en/CGHO CLICE EXP Policy Rules_EN_09_2020.pdf

[retarius]

I don't bother with insurance, I self-insure. Been here a long time and never paid out anything like what I would have paid in insurance premiums deductibles and the like. This year was the first year I ever spent more than 3-4000 baht or so on doctors fees and hospital bills (never been in hospital thank god). Insurance companies are in business to make money so on average it costs its customers cash each year to fund the insurance company's profits ie the premiums received are much more than their payouts. A racket in other words, your premiums are the insurance co's guaranteed profit,

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

You left off the standard anecdotal proof:

 

"I have a friend who ..."

Thanks for reminding me ???? a friend had bladder cancer diagnosed,Op needed and chemo, because it was slow growing, said before cover started, claim was denied

[jerrymahoney]

24 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Thanks for reminding me ???? a friend had bladder cancer diagnosed,Op needed and chemo, because it was slow growing, said before cover started, claim was denied

You're welcome. From the CIGNA link above:

 

"or should reasonably have been) aware at the date cover commenced,"

 

So how long after he initiated coverage did he develop bladder cancer? No symptoms of bladder-type issues prior to cancer diagnosis?

Edited August 20, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[KhunLA]

Unless you suspect a health issue, I'd put the funds toward yearly 'full' check ups.  Better spent.

 

Know your body, eat & exercise properly.  If too many unhealthy vices, get the insurance.

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

Must be at least several thousand who have no insurance at all.

 

A few will have the funds to self insure.

 

The rest just hope they don't get sick, but know the costs could well be way more than they can afford.

And people, expats wonder why Imm has the 'show me the money' mentality for long term visa/extension.

 

Myself, self insured my whole life, so saved a bundle, being healthy or pay for oops as they happen. 

 

Had on oops last year, about 250k baht total, but way cheaper than 40+ years of ins premiums, that have premiums & deductibles, more than what I spend here for basic care & check ups.

Edited August 20, 2023 by KhunLA

[jerrymahoney]

My finances are such that I can afford health insurance premiums but would have a hard time coming up with a large lump sum to pay for if/when sh*t happens

Edited August 20, 2023 by jerrymahoney

[simon43]

3 hours ago, Nip said:

Thankfully I don’t have any life threatening conditions and have had check ups. Just lingering problems with my back after a bicycle accident. And your absolutely right. 

So absolutely anything associated with your back will be excluded from cover....

[Ralf001]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Remember insurers will desperately search for pre-existing conditions when you make a big claim, in mid 60s good chance you'll have things even if unknown to you

Yeah I got denied claim early this year with the insurer citing pre-existing condition.

I was in Hospital with Pneumonia, the "pre-existing" condition was a minor stroke I had years ago !!

[Ralf001]

20 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

And people, expats wonder why Imm has the 'show me the money' mentality for long term visa/extension.

 

Myself, self insured my whole life, so saved a bundle, being healthy or pay for oops as they happen. 

 

Had on oops last year, about 250k baht total, but way cheaper than 40+ years of ins premiums, that have premiums & deductibles, more than what I spend here for basic care & check ups.

I could cover a 250k oops... but my oops earlier this cost near on 6 million.... I don't have that sitting lazy in the top drawer.

[KannikaP]

3 hours ago, HampiK said:

I have Cigna Global now for 5 years. And yes, they are not cheap, but I feel better with them than with a Thai Insurance, who can raise the premiums or kick you out after a big claim.

In my opinion Cigna or April (international, not the Thai based version) are the ones to look at, if you have the spare money to spend.

Have you claimed against Cigna? 

[retarius]

35 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Unless you suspect a health issue, I'd put the funds toward yearly 'full' check ups.  Better spent.

 

Know your body, eat & exercise properly.  If too many unhealthy vices, get the insurance.

Check ups are a rip off as well. Most medical care is a rip off. My advice is to start with a great diagnosis from the best physician you can afford, then after that it is pretty much routine to treat.

 

I see these check ups advertised for $1000 or more. Very few preventative 'tests' or check-ups are value for money. Yes you feel better going and thinking everything looks great, but do you get a guarantee? No. Why is it annual, why not every 3 months, or why not every day?

 

I worked in health care and have a lot of knowledge  about health economics, and often its medical costs have exceeded its value. In most countries it is a government program and so subject to the usual fraud and overcharging that government programs are famous for. Cancer care with a drug that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per cycle to give you two extra months of poor quality life in your old age? Quad bypass costing $200,000 for a 90 year old? Lining the pockets of clinic and hospital owners, and the medical profession, and Big Pharma. 

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, retarius said:

Cancer care with a drug that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars per cycle to give you two extra months of poor quality life in your old age? 

And there in lays (One off anyways) the reason why I wont be seeking treatment for my cancer.

[mania]

3 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

We will not pay for treatment for a
pre-existing condition of which the
policyholder was (or should reasonably have
been) aware at the date cover commenced,

Seems pretty understandable/reasonable

No insurance company wants to sell fire insurance to someone whose house is already ablaze ????

 

Quote

 

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

An 80 years old friend of mine, mostly unbothered with the regular ailments that most of us have in advanced age, is paying B. 200k+ a year to be comprehensibly insured  with a local insurer, and he's been doing so for several now.

 

 

At 80 years old $500/month prem would seem a good deal in most places

As long as it is not riddled with exclusions due to preexisting problems.

 

After all at 80 the Insurer knows this is going to likely cost

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by mania

[gargamon]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Unless you suspect a health issue, I'd put the funds toward yearly 'full' check ups.  Better spent.

 

Know your body, eat & exercise properly.  If too many unhealthy vices, get the insurance.

No matter how well you look after yourself, there will come a time when you will need the help. 

[KhunLA]

42 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

I could cover a 250k oops... but my oops earlier this cost near on 6 million.... I don't have that sitting lazy in the top drawer.

???? ... not sure I'd spend 1M (@ 68 yrs old) unless they could guarantee me at least 5 yrs of comfy living afterward.

 

Not sure I can get 1 or 2M baht sick here at govt hospital.  If caught early enough, and elective, could always hop back to USA, use that medicare, though take a hit on plan B.  Again, at my age, not even sure I'd bother.

 

Twice I didn't think I was going to make it through the night here in TH, and I was actually OK with that.

 

Kind of refreshing thought process, and does make one appreciate every sunrise & sunset, afterwards.

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, gargamon said:

No matter how well you look after yourself, there will come a time when you will need the help. 

As I found out last year, and that oops could have been easily diagnosed with proper check up.  I was lax in that aspect, skipping a long year of.  Though cost wise, would have been the same, just elective (next week is OK) vs emergency (now or you might not be around for lunch today) ????

[Ralf001]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

 

 

Not sure I can get 1 or 2M baht sick here at govt hospital.  If caught early enough, and elective, could always hop back to USA, use that medicare, though take a hit on plan B.  Again, at my age, not even sure I'd bother.

 

 

Thats the thing though.

 

I went to hospital on Jan 4th for what I thought maybe dehydration and possibly a bit of a chest cold... but defo feeling a bit ordinary.

Before the day ended I was in an induced coma on a ventilator..... my blood oxygen level was critically low they tell me. 

[jerrymahoney]

My father had prostate cancer but it was monitored close enough that -- with radical prostate removal before cancer had spread -- he lived another roughly 10 years.

 

So sometimes it's just how closely you monitor things to catch a problem before it becomes a real problem