Depression that black dog

[mokwit]

12 minutes ago, bignok said:

Self pity? I tried suicide multiple times. Rarely left the house for 6 months.

 

You have no idea.

One of the risks with treating ENDOGENOUS depression with antidepressants is that as people's mood and MOTIVATION improves they actually become motivated enough to attempt suicide.  Got it? They don't have the motivation to make multiple suicide attempts.

 

I have every sympathy with you if you have been in that mental state - I have had similar but not to the point of making a real attempt (I managed to convince a Thai lady who was talking about it by going through all the methods and how they can leave you if they go wrong - she looked at me and asked "check already?" and I told er "Yes, check already".

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, bignok said:

I dont care how he feels. Your feelings are an illusion. Love, hate, depression its an illusion you created in your brain.

 

You fix depression through actions and reinforcement. Like training a horse. This is how you gallop. This is how you canter. This is how you let go. This is how you go from 1200m to a mile.

 

 

 

You may not care how he feels but you aren't in his mind. You can't fix depression. You live with it, and can keep it at bay if you know how. That sometimes takes medication to help with symptoms. Talk therapy is also necessary because talking lets you get those feelings out. Feelings are real, happiness, sadness, boredom. Illusions are like hallucinations, and not real. Sometimes depression can go away, sometimes it doesn't, but you can live with it. It all depends on what type you have, which can be environmental, seasonal, or clinical. Everyone is different and responds differently. Depression can be brought on by living with abuse or neglect, and when you're out of that situation, you life will improve, although scars take a long time to heal. This is from The Jackson laboratory study.............

What causes depression?

During the last decade, increased access to brain imaging technology has allowed neuroscientists and hospital clinicians to view the brain in detail, measure neural activity, and quantify neurotransmitter levels. Such studies have revealed many clues regarding the underlying contributing factors of depression and the pathophysiology of this disease.

Serotonin: the happy neurotransmitter

Various animal models have demonstrated that chronic stress causes low serotonin levels in the brain. In patients, low brain serotonin activity correlates with a higher risk for more violent attempted and successful suicides.  Serotonin levels have also been implicated in seasonal affective disorder (SAD). 

According to a recent study, sunlight keeps serotonin levels high by decreasing serotonin transporter (SERT) activity.  Because serotonin-releasing neurons use SERT to recapture released serotonin, limiting SERT activity increases serotonin-dependent activity and downstream neuronal signaling. For this reason, patients afflicted with SAD experience increased SERT levels as nights lengthen, thereby diminishing active serotonin levels while increasing the risk of depression.

Figure 1. The role of serotonin in normal and depressed people with or without SSRIs treatment.

Currently, the most widely prescribed antidepressants are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which include brand names such as Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil and Celexa. These drugs block the uptake of serotonin (via SERT) by the neurons that produced it, making this neurochemical more available to neighboring postsynaptic neurons.

Dopamine: a chemical for motivation

Reduced dopamine levels, too, may contribute to depression. Although dopamine was thought initially to be crucial to the “reward” system in the brain and the neurons that control feelings related to pleasure, it more directly impacts the neurons that underlie motivation and habit formation. Dopamine motivates people to take action toward goals, desires, and needs, and issues a surge of reinforcing pleasure once they’ve been accomplished. Low dopamine levels make people and animal models less likely to work toward achieving a goal.

People with clinical depression often have increased levels of monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A), an enzyme that breaks down key neurotransmitters, resulting in very low levels of serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine.  In 2013, a team from Stanford using optogenetic mouse models showed that inhibiting midbrain dopamine-releasing neurons induced depression-like behaviors caused by chronic stress, reinforcing the link between low dopamine and depression in patients.

Therapies for patients that don’t respond to standard treatments

Notions that the brain is a chemical soup in which not enough dopamine or too little serotonin contribute to severe depression helped pharmacologists design a series of antidepressants that work –although only in some cases. For too long, however, this view has limited advances in the field, including the delay to develop treatments for the 30% to 40% of depressed patients who, according to the National Institute of Mental Health, generally don’t respond to standard antidepressant treatments.

Ketamine: A promising quick fix

One of the most exciting, recent findings related to treatments for depression was the discovery that ketamine, a glutamate NMDA receptor antagonist and a FDA approved anesthetic, appears to counteract depression in a matter of hours.  Although ketamine may be an alternative treatment for many patients with major depressive disorder who don’t get better with standard antidepressant drugs, it hasn't been thoroughly studied for long-term safety and effectiveness, and the FDA hasn't approved it to specifically treat mood disorders. Nevertheless, some clinics are providing “off-label” treatments. In the meantime, pharmaceutical companies are spending millions to develop patentable derivatives and ketamine analogues.

Depressive environmental factors

The biomedical community has come a long way towards understanding what causes depression and how best to treat some individuals- but they still don’t have answers for the most effective ways to treat all of the different disease subtypes. We cannot ignore the fact, too, that trauma early in life, hormonal changes, sustained stress, or sudden, emotional losses can push some people over the edge. 

[scubascuba3]

You do need to make changes to your life, those talking about having SAD, guess what move to Thailand where it's endless sun. Change jobs, change location, change partner, change house etc

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

He said FFS , snap out of it !

How can you be depressed over nothing ?

"Depression is not real mate !!!

Get off the couch and go to work you lazy C ! 

Depressed over nothing , a load of BS !

He is just ignorant, and shouldn't be listened to.

 

8 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

The point is , is it BS, is it real ?

It's real, and is caused by chemicals, or lack of, in the brain.

 

The problem is getting the right advice/ help. In NZ it's basically impossible for a non rich person to get any psychological help. The public psych services have been run down to the point of uselessness.

[thaibeachlovers]

25 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You do need to make changes to your life, those talking about having SAD, guess what move to Thailand where it's endless sun. Change jobs, change location, change partner, change house etc

I doubt clinical depression can be treated just by changing one's job.

If doing so works, it was just that the job was wrong.

People confuse real depression with being a bit unhappy.

I'm not depressed, but I suffer from melancholia which is probably just as bad.

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Doctors tend to judge depression by 'ability to function' rather than "feelings".

Not true really because their last question is 'do you think about suicide? That confirms depression.

Edited August 30, 2023 by IvorBiggun2

[scubascuba3]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt clinical depression can be treated just by changing one's job.

If doing so works, it was just that the job was wrong.

People confuse real depression with being a bit unhappy.

I'm not depressed, but I suffer from melancholia which is probably just as bad.

I wasn't suggesting it will solve everything and every condition, but people do lose track what causes it, so making changes definitely can help

[malt25]

Might I respectfully suggest those of you who have never been bitten by The Black Dog, keep all your suggestions  to your selves. Except for a few of the latter responses to the OP, you simply don't have a clue about clinical depression.

Up untill recently, some 25 years or so, mental health issues, especially men's mental health was a taboo subject.

I'm a baby boomer. In my early teens I knew there was something wrong. My parents were sympathetic and supportive, to a point. Because of the above, "taboo subject", they had no idea of what I was going through and how to help me. I visited several doctors, Most were empathetic & interested but again could not offer any assistance.

My depression lead to relationship breakdowns, job losses and in some cases family & friends distancing themselves from me.

As for keeping busy, diet, vitamin supplements & so on, pure nonsense. Clinical depression cannot be cured or controled by such.

I changed occupations, living environments, diet, lifestyle, you name it, I tried it. I suffered up until my early 50's. I lost a major part of my life.

Long story short, I happened to be befriended by a doctor, social environment, not professionally. He saw something in my personality, mood & actions that promped him to suspect something wrong. I'd given up on medical assistance many years back as it had been all negative. After several, casual chat sessions, not the normal doctor to patient consultation, he prescribed medication. We experimented with a few different medications over the next 12 months or so. I've been taking said medication daily for over 25 years.

I'm a different person. In my  pre Black Dog days I wouldn't... couldn't leave the house sometimes for a week at a time. A crying mess ! Now on medication, I took myself, solo to Thailand. I travelled, solo to several SE Asian countries, holidays. I've been living here in LOS permanently now for 10 years. I have no trouble tackling emotional situations & ocassionally am asked by others for assistance in such matters.

Re Tha Black Dog, I feel Iam qualified to write a book on said subject.

First & most important to the road to recovery, acknowledge, accept you have a problem. Seek medical help. Don't listen to crackpot advice as is the case in many early responsed to the OP.

OP, PM me if you'd care to discuss anything at all.

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, malt25 said:

Might I respectfully suggest those of you who have never been bitten by The Black Dog, keep all your suggestions  to your selves. Except for a few of the latter responses to the OP, you simply don't have a clue about clinical depression.

Up untill recently, some 25 years or so, mental health issues, especially men's mental health was a taboo subject.

I'm a baby boomer. In my early teens I knew there was something wrong. My parents were sympathetic and supportive, to a point. Because of the above, "taboo subject", they had no idea of what I was going through and how to help me. I visited several doctors, Most were empathetic & interested but again could not offer any assistance.

My depression lead to relationship breakdowns, job losses and in some cases family & friends distancing themselves from me.

As for keeping busy, diet, vitamin supplements & so on, pure nonsense. Clinical depression cannot be cured or controled by such.

I changed occupations, living environments, diet, lifestyle, you name it, I tried it. I suffered up until my early 50's. I lost a major part of my life.

Long story short, I happened to be befriended by a doctor, social environment, not professionally. He saw something in my personality, mood & actions that promped him to suspect something wrong. I'd given up on medical assistance many years back as it had been all negative. After several, casual chat sessions, not the normal doctor to patient consultation, he prescribed medication. We experimented with a few different medications over the next 12 months or so. I've been taking said medication daily for over 25 years.

I'm a different person. In my  pre Black Dog days I wouldn't... couldn't leave the house sometimes for a week at a time. A crying mess ! Now on medication, I took myself, solo to Thailand. I travelled, solo to several SE Asian countries, holidays. I've been living here in LOS permanently now for 10 years. I have no trouble tackling emotional situations & ocassionally am asked by others for assistance in such matters.

Re Tha Black Dog, I feel Iam qualified to write a book on said subject.

First & most important to the road to recovery, acknowledge, accept you have a problem. Seek medical help. Don't listen to crackpot advice as is the case in many early responsed to the OP.

OP, PM me if you'd care to discuss anything at all.

This is what I've been trying to get across. many don't understand the dynamics involved in a mental illness, and that many of them aren't curable, but treatable. I lived it with 2 ex wives, a daughter, a best friend, and now a girlfriend. Studied it for the last 25 plus years, trying to help family and friends. You can do everything you can, but it's up to the one with it to start the ball rolling. Some things people say hurt more than help. It isn't because they are just cold, but don't understand.

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, mokwit said:

Mine generally goes away every April May without me doing anything. Again, you are inappropriately extrapolating how you deal with lifes ups and downs to major depression.

I guess you are aware of Seasonal Affective Disorder. It's very real, especially prevalent in cold climates with long dark days.

The current treatment is blue light exposure for a few hours each day. You can even but LED headgear to wear.

Just a thought.

[scubascuba3]

8 minutes ago, malt25 said:

Might I respectfully suggest those of you who have never been bitten by The Black Dog, keep all your suggestions  to your selves. Except for a few of the latter responses to the OP, you simply don't have a clue about clinical depression.

Up untill recently, some 25 years or so, mental health issues, especially men's mental health was a taboo subject.

I'm a baby boomer. In my early teens I knew there was something wrong. My parents were sympathetic and supportive, to a point. Because of the above, "taboo subject", they had no idea of what I was going through and how to help me. I visited several doctors, Most were empathetic & interested but again could not offer any assistance.

My depression lead to relationship breakdowns, job losses and in some cases family & friends distancing themselves from me.

As for keeping busy, diet, vitamin supplements & so on, pure nonsense. Clinical depression cannot be cured or controled by such.

I changed occupations, living environments, diet, lifestyle, you name it, I tried it. I suffered up until my early 50's. I lost a major part of my life.

Long story short, I happened to be befriended by a doctor, social environment, not professionally. He saw something in my personality, mood & actions that promped him to suspect something wrong. I'd given up on medical assistance many years back as it had been all negative. After several, casual chat sessions, not the normal doctor to patient consultation, he prescribed medication. We experimented with a few different medications over the next 12 months or so. I've been taking said medication daily for over 25 years.

I'm a different person. In my  pre Black Dog days I wouldn't... couldn't leave the house sometimes for a week at a time. A crying mess ! Now on medication, I took myself, solo to Thailand. I travelled, solo to several SE Asian countries, holidays. I've been living here in LOS permanently now for 10 years. I have no trouble tackling emotional situations & ocassionally am asked by others for assistance in such matters.

Re Tha Black Dog, I feel Iam qualified to write a book on said subject.

First & most important to the road to recovery, acknowledge, accept you have a problem. Seek medical help. Don't listen to crackpot advice as is the case in many early responsed to the OP.

OP, PM me if you'd care to discuss anything at all.

Op isn't clinically depressed, it seems those with issues have highjacked the thread to their condition

[malt25]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

Op isn't clinically depressed, it seems those with issues have highjacked the thread to their condition

And your medical qualifications are ?

 

[scubascuba3]

Just now, malt25 said:

And your medical qualifications are ?

 

You and others have just highjacked the thread so you can talk about yourselves. If you'd read the ops numerous threads you'd see he isn't clinically depressed as you lot describe

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

You and others have just highjacked the thread so you can talk about yourselves. If you'd read the ops numerous threads you'd see he isn't clinically depressed as you lot describe

We don't know the type of depression the OP has, but some of us have tried to help because we have experience in it. Some have made comments that are plain dumb, and some because that's what they've heard works, which can be the opposite of what a person needs. What the OP is experiencing is Anhedonia, where you lose all feelings for most if not all everything. Nothing matters. This happens to a lot of people, some with and some without depression, but it's a good read because educating yourself on any particular topic is knowledge you can use  when it happens to you or a loved one. There's nothing wrong with others coming in the thread to tell their own experiences with the subject. Some, like the OP, are looking for advice, and people who live this illness have knowledge about it, and some have tried many things to help themselves or others treat it.

[bignok]

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

You may not care how he feels but you aren't in his mind. You can't fix depression. You live with it, and can keep it at bay if you know how. That sometimes takes medication to help with symptoms. Talk therapy is also necessary because talking lets you get those feelings out. Feelings are real, happiness, sadness, boredom. Illusions are like hallucinations, and not real. Sometimes depression can go away, sometimes it doesn't, but you can live with it. It all depends on what type you have, which can be environmental, seasonal, or clinical. Everyone is different and responds differently. Depression can be brought on by living with abuse or neglect, and when you're out of that situation, you life will improve, although scars take a long time to heal. This is from The Jackson laboratory study.............

What causes depression?

During the last decade, increased access to brain imaging technology has allowed neuroscientists and hospital clinicians to view the brain in detail, measure neural activity, and quantify neurotransmitter levels. Such studies have revealed many clues regarding the underlying contributing factors of depression and the pathophysiology of this disease.

Serotonin: the happy neurotransmitter

Various animal models have demonstrated that chronic stress causes low serotonin levels in the brain. In patients, low brain serotonin activity correlates with a higher risk for more violent attempted and successful suicides.  Serotonin levels have also been implicated in seasonal affective disorder (SAD). 

According to a recent study, sunlight keeps serotonin levels high by decreasing serotonin transporter (SERT) activity.  Because serotonin-releasing neurons use SERT to recapture released serotonin, limiting SERT activity increases serotonin-dependent activity and downstream neuronal signaling. For this reason, patients afflicted with SAD experience increased SERT levels as nights lengthen, thereby diminishing active serotonin levels while increasing the risk of depression.

Figure 1. The role of serotonin in normal and depressed people with or without SSRIs treatment.

Currently, the most widely prescribed antidepressants are selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which include brand names such as Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil and Celexa. These drugs block the uptake of serotonin (via SERT) by the neurons that produced it, making this neurochemical more available to neighboring postsynaptic neurons.

Dopamine: a chemical for motivation

Reduced dopamine levels, too, may contribute to depression. Although dopamine was thought initially to be crucial to the “reward” system in the brain and the neurons that control feelings related to pleasure, it more directly impacts the neurons that underlie motivation and habit formation. Dopamine motivates people to take action toward goals, desires, and needs, and issues a surge of reinforcing pleasure once they’ve been accomplished. Low dopamine levels make people and animal models less likely to work toward achieving a goal.

People with clinical depression often have increased levels of monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A), an enzyme that breaks down key neurotransmitters, resulting in very low levels of serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine.  In 2013, a team from Stanford using optogenetic mouse models showed that inhibiting midbrain dopamine-releasing neurons induced depression-like behaviors caused by chronic stress, reinforcing the link between low dopamine and depression in patients.

Therapies for patients that don’t respond to standard treatments

Notions that the brain is a chemical soup in which not enough dopamine or too little serotonin contribute to severe depression helped pharmacologists design a series of antidepressants that work –although only in some cases. For too long, however, this view has limited advances in the field, including the delay to develop treatments for the 30% to 40% of depressed patients who, according to the National Institute of Mental Health, generally don’t respond to standard antidepressant treatments.

Ketamine: A promising quick fix

One of the most exciting, recent findings related to treatments for depression was the discovery that ketamine, a glutamate NMDA receptor antagonist and a FDA approved anesthetic, appears to counteract depression in a matter of hours.  Although ketamine may be an alternative treatment for many patients with major depressive disorder who don’t get better with standard antidepressant drugs, it hasn't been thoroughly studied for long-term safety and effectiveness, and the FDA hasn't approved it to specifically treat mood disorders. Nevertheless, some clinics are providing “off-label” treatments. In the meantime, pharmaceutical companies are spending millions to develop patentable derivatives and ketamine analogues.

Depressive environmental factors

The biomedical community has come a long way towards understanding what causes depression and how best to treat some individuals- but they still don’t have answers for the most effective ways to treat all of the different disease subtypes. We cannot ignore the fact, too, that trauma early in life, hormonal changes, sustained stress, or sudden, emotional losses can push some people over the edge. 

Well i fixed mine. 

[Enoon]

3 hours ago, bignok said:

Self pity? I tried suicide multiple times. Rarely left the house for 6 months.

 

You have no idea.

Multiple times and still alive?

 

Sounds more like self-harm as self-medication.

 

Especially common with Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

Depression is often an associated symptom of a condition........rather than a thing only of itself.

 

(That will be 75 guineas please)

 

 

 

 

[RubbaJohnny]

If persists seek expert medical opinion.

 

I always find nature helps me walk the dog in the forest, music dance tai chi

 

If it isn't fine an intervention may help.

 

Voluntary work with environment, sick aged disabled will make you realize the luxury of still having physical health and options.

 

Good Luck

[bignok]

1 minute ago, Enoon said:

Multiple times and still alive?

 

Sounds more like self-harm as self-medication.

 

Especially common with Borderline Personality Disorder.

 

Depression is often an associated symptom of a condition........rather than a thing only of itself.

 

(That will be 75 guineas please)

 

 

 

 

No.

[bignok]

https://www.tonyrobbins.com/ask-tony/how-to-deal-with-depression/

[bignok]

18 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

We don't know the type of depression the OP has, but some of us have tried to help because we have experience in it. Some have made comments that are plain dumb, and some because that's what they've heard works, which can be the opposite of what a person needs. What the OP is experiencing is Anhedonia, where you lose all feelings for most if not all everything. Nothing matters. This happens to a lot of people, some with and some without depression, but it's a good read because educating yourself on any particular topic is knowledge you can use  when it happens to you or a loved one. There's nothing wrong with others coming in the thread to tell their own experiences with the subject. Some, like the OP, are looking for advice, and people who live this illness have knowledge about it, and some have tried many things to help themselves or others treat it.

If Elvis was alive today would he prefer Samui or pattaya?

[Stevemercer]

Depression is real. Clinical depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain and needs medical treatment to correct the balance. However, it is not an easy thing to find the right medicine and right dosage, particularly because it takes a few months before you know if the medication is working/not working. If it's not working, you have to taper off over a month or so, start the next medicine and wait a month to see if it works etc. etc.

 

With correct medication, you can finally look back and understand that how you felt was not normal, and there is no need to be in that state. Your confidence, vitality and outlook on life are sky high. Most anti-depressants also prolong sex (e.g. inhibit ejaculation) which is often why rock stars take them (and subsequently auto-asphyxiate).

 

I used to be shy and withdrawn. The anti-depressant medication I took got rid of this as well as lifting my mood. Before that I could scarcely speak at meetings, because of shyness, but after I could perform at meetings, present in front of hundreds of people etc. etc. This really had a positive affect on my work becasue I could achieve my full potential without being held back by shyness or self-doubt.

 

[bignok]

2 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

Depression is real. Clinical depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain and needs medical treatment to correct the balance. However, it is not an easy thing to find the right medicine and right dosage, particularly because it takes a few months before you know if the medication is working/not working. If it's not working, you have to taper off over a month or so, start the next medicine and wait a month to see if it works etc. etc.

 

With correct medication, you can finally look back and understand that how you felt was not normal, and there is no need to be in that state. Your confidence, vitality and outlook on life are sky high. Most anti-depressants also prolong sex (e.g. inhibit ejaculation) which is often why rock stars take them (and subsequently auto-asphyxiate).

 

I used to be shy and withdrawn. The anti-depressant medication I took got rid of this as well as lifting my mood. Before that I could scarcely speak at meetings, because of shyness, but after I could perform at meetings, present in front of hundreds of people etc. etc. This really had a positive affect on my work becasue I could achieve my full potential without being held back by shyness or self-doubt.

 

No evidence of chemical imbalance.

[bignok]

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/analysis-depression-probably-not-caused-chemical-imbalance-brain-new-study

[malt25]

34 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

You and others have just highjacked the thread so you can talk about yourselves. If you'd read the ops numerous threads you'd see he isn't clinically depressed as you lot describe

I dont spend all my time reading every post, apparently you do. I was trying to offer something positive. I don't intend playing keyboard pingpong, so, it's goodnight from me.

 

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, bignok said:

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/analysis-depression-probably-not-caused-chemical-imbalance-brain-new-study

You can post a hundred links from all kinds of doctors and others who share their opinions on the subject. What is real is that there are many different types of depression, and severities among many different people. Many clinical studies have shown that medication helps with symptoms. many people take meds for years that  are wrong for them. Some take meds and get a lot worse. No one who has clinical depression is cured. Seasonal and environmental pass, and some don't need medication. Doctors have suggested, like he said, that it's a chemical imbalance in the brain, and this may be true for many, but not for others. Half of depression  is genetic. Clinical depression can come and go, but not go away entirely. You can manage it. It all depends on the severity and your lifestyle. Someone in a very stressful, toxic environment can take the right medicine for them and still have triggers. My daughter has it, her mom, grandma and grandpa had it. Grandpa hung himself. Childhood abuse and or neglect can bring it on, and treated, it can be managed, although the scars will have to be dealt with. If you take away environmental and seasonal, you have clinical, bipolar and psychotic depression. These are the ones that need treatment, and maybe for your lifetime. There isn't a problem living with it as long as you forget the stigma attached to it, where other's don't understand it and think it's your fault, or that somehow you can just snap out of it if you wanted. You own it, and do what you can to keep it under control. It's your illness, and yours to treat. You can get all kinds of advice but the best thing is to see a doctor who specializes in it, and the treatment, including psychotherapy.

[bignok]

Just now, fredwiggy said:

You can post a hundred links from all kinds of doctors and others who share their opinions on the subject. What is real is that there are many different types of depression, and severities among many different people. Many clinical studies have shown that medication helps with symptoms. many people take meds for years that  are wrong for them. Some take meds and get a lot worse. No one who has clinical depression is cured. Seasonal and environmental pass, and some don't need medication. Doctors have suggested, like he said, that it's a chemical imbalance in the brain, and this may be true for many, but not for others. Half of depression  is genetic. Clinical depression can come and go, but not go away entirely. You can manage it. It all depends on the severity and your lifestyle. Someone in a very stressful, toxic environment can take the right medicine for them and still have triggers. My daughter has it, her mom, grandma and grandpa had it. Grandpa hung himself. Childhood abuse and or neglect can bring it on, and treated, it can be managed, although the scars will have to be dealt with. If you take away environmental and seasonal, you have clinical, bipolar and psychotic depression. These are the ones that need treatment, and maybe for your lifetime. There isn't a problem living with it as long as you forget the stigma attached to it, where other's don't understand it and think it's your fault, or that somehow you can just snap out of it if you wanted. You own it, and do what you can to keep it under control. It's your illness, and yours to treat. You can get all kinds of advice but the best thing is to see a doctor who specializes in it, and the treatment, including psychotherapy.

Placebo is what helps. Thats just positive thinking aligned with a pill. 

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, bignok said:

Placebo is what helps. Thats just positive thinking aligned with a pill. 

And placebos don't cure depression that's not environmental. Positive thinking helps, but it doesn't cure. Having a bad experience and getting depressed about it is where positive thinking will help get past it.

[bignok]

https://www.psychiatryadvisor.com/home/depression-advisor/acetyl-l-carnitine-supplementation-reduces-depressive-symptoms/

 

Works as well or better than drugs without the side effects

 

It also gives you energy

[jak2002003]

Seems many here are confusing feeling depressed / upset / down (which every human goes though sometimes) with clinical depression (which is mental health disorder). 

 

Being depressed or low due to traumatic or bad things happening in your life is normal and can be overcome over time.  Here the advice about getting out and about, diet and exercise will help. 

 

'Real' depression usually has no immediate reason.  It can happen to someone who has the best life, is active, healthy, social and fulfilled.  Once it strikes the sufferer will spiral downhill.  It is not cured by morning walks or getting a puppy or taking vitamins. 

 

It needs professional medical help. 

 

 

 

 

[bignok]

 

1 minute ago, jak2002003 said:

Seems many here are confusing feeling depressed / upset / down (which every human goes though sometimes) with clinical depression (which is mental health disorder). 

 

Being depressed or low due to traumatic or bad things happening in your life is normal and can be overcome over time.  Here the advice about getting out and about, diet and exercise will help. 

 

'Real' depression usually has no immediate reason.  It can happen to someone who has the best life, is active, healthy, social and fulfilled.  Once it strikes the sufferer will spiral downhill.  It is not cured by morning walks or getting a puppy or taking vitamins. 

 

It needs professional medical help. 

 

 

 

 

I disagree. I had clinical depression. Drs did not help. Most drs have no idea what to say to you, give you pills then send you home.