What makes people follow made-up morality, obey silly, foolish or simply unenforceable laws.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

It can be dangerous driving at 90, cars cutting in and out, right up your aris, safer to keep up with the flow, IMO

It seems this is why those limits exist.

Smart people understand that it makes sense to drive slower in bad weather conditions, high traffic, etc.

Stupid people need a law to tell them what to do - not just in Thailand. 

[FolkGuitar]

Every time we get on the roads here in Thailand we see the result of people picking and choosing which laws to follow. Perhaps that's one of the reasons Thailand has such a high rate of road fatalities. Have any of us driven a week without seeing or almost having, some sort of accident because another driver (or ourselves) broke the driving laws?

 

I think most of us pick and choose which laws we will follow. Fortunately, most of these are rather petty. Few of us choose to break the 'Do not kill' laws, or 'Do not rob banks.'

 

Unfortunately, we all seem to have a well-developed sense of justification, and so have little difficulty choosing which laws it's "O.K." to break. We rationalize so well that we can even break laws that potentially 'can' harm others, such as driving while intoxicated or speeding.

 

Fact is... we ALL break some laws. Anyone who says they don't is fooling themselves. Let's just be thankful that we all don't break ALL the laws. Most are actually there to protect us or protect society.

[phetphet]

I am not more moral than you, but will give my opinion.

 

Firstly. As for why some people obey, it's probably a bit to do with upbringing, education, perhaps having a strong moral compass, or a desire to be a good member of society.

 

Secondly. Many of those laws and rules are made for the smooth operation of society, or to improve or protect the lives of its members..

 

e.g. The yob in the flat upstairs might like playing loud music all night long, and think that it's his right to do what he wants in his property..

But what about the poor neighbour living below him with young children, who has to get up and go to work?

 

Where your world view is wrong is that if everybody did as they wanted, the whole system would break down.

Why write a book, if everybody is going to expect to download it for free. The same with movies, music and software. The system only still works because a large number of people are still willing to pay.

 

Even paying for sex I suppose. If no one did it, what would happen to prostitution? Don't forget the other side. Not all sex trade workers are willing participants. Human trafficking is bigger than ever. 

 

Most road laws; Motorcycle helmet, insurance, drink driving (MOT in the UK), using a mobile phone while driving etc. are for your and other road users protection.

 

Streaming stations such as Spotify and Tidal, and radio stations all around the world, all pay a royalty for every time they pay a song to that particular artist, or whoever owns the rights to that song. Some artists do sell the rights to their back catalogues.

The other side of it is that artists get their songs listened to by millions of people who might then go and buy their albums. Massive publicity for them.

 

I'm not sure how libraries work, but they are not breaking any laws.

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by phetphet

[atpeace]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Was reading the Kindle thread and thought, why are people paying for books.

Then extended that thought into why are they paying for movies and music.

What about those who won't pay for sex, or have to confess to DWP they are living overseas (and losing pension increases)?

How about driving without a seat belt, helmet, insurance, tax, driving license, after a few drinks, or too old, driving at 35mph in a 30mph zone, etc?

We seem to be surrounded by people with fixed sets or morality, do you obey them all, or pick and choose a few to follow.

For those who feel the need to pay, is using a legit library also immoral, how about listening to the radio or Spotify?

 

My only morality is to try to directly avoid harming anyone else.  

Can someone more moral than me explain how my worldview is wrong, and their worldview is right?

If you pick and choose then why?

All of us pick and choose and our ethics evolve to the circumstances.  Morality is 3 spoons perspective and 1 reality.

[Doctor Tom]

18 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I choose not to wear a seat belt,

Idiotic. You need your head examining and one day, maybe sooner than you think, the doctors will have open access to your brain.  

[Hummin]

15 minutes ago, phetphet said:

I am not more moral than you, but will give my opinion.

 

Firstly. As for why some people obey, it's probably a bit to do with upbringing, education, perhaps having a strong moral compass, or a desire to be a good member of society.

 

Secondly. Many of those laws and rules are made for the smooth operation of society, or to improve or protect the lives of its members..

 

e.g. The yob in the flat upstairs might like playing loud music all night long, and think that it's his right to do what he wants in his property..

But what about the poor neighbour living below him with young children, who has to get up and go to work?

 

Where your world view is wrong is that if everybody did as they wanted, the whole system would break down.

Why write a book, if everybody is going to expect to download it for free. The same with movies, music and software. The system only still works because a large number of people are still willing to pay.

 

Even paying for sex I suppose. If no one did it, what would happen to prostitution? Don't forget the other side. Not all sex trade workers are willing participants. Human trafficking is bigger than ever. 

 

Most road laws; Motorcycle helmet, insurance, drink driving (MOT in the UK), using a mobile phone while driving etc. are for your and other road users protection.

 

Streaming stations such as Spotify and Tidal, and radio stations all around the world, all pay a royalty for every time they pay a song to that particular artist, or whoever owns the rights to that song. Some artists do sell the rights to their back catalogues.

The other side of it is that artists get their songs listened to by millions of people who might then go and buy their albums. Massive publicity for them.

 

I'm not sure how libraries work, but they are not breaking any laws.

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just common sense and for those who call out those who try to make the best out of it, and follow the most common sense rules and laws for sleepless, I find quite childish.

 

I drive to fast, take party drugs if I want (not for  14 years now) trespassing for base jumping back in my days, and in my very young days sold 96 percent liquor of Spanish grape to have some extra money when I was apprentice, and also smuggled smaller quantities of tobacco on my motorbike across the Sweedish border to make some extra pocket money to. Been in relationships all my life almost, and cheated twice in my younger days, which is one of the few things I did regret in life. Not because I was caught, it just felt wrong. 

 

I might do not like the rules, but I understand why there is rules and laws. 

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Was reading the Kindle thread and thought, why are people paying for books.

Then extended that thought into why are they paying for movies and music.

What about those who won't pay for sex, or have to confess to DWP they are living overseas (and losing pension increases)?

How about driving without a seat belt, helmet, insurance, tax, driving license, after a few drinks, or too old, driving at 35mph in a 30mph zone, etc?

We seem to be surrounded by people with fixed sets or morality, do you obey them all, or pick and choose a few to follow.

For those who feel the need to pay, is using a legit library also immoral, how about listening to the radio or Spotify?

 

My only morality is to try to directly avoid harming anyone else.  

Can someone more moral than me explain how my worldview is wrong, and their worldview is right?

If you pick and choose then why?

Excellent post. The membership of the "scared of your own shadow" brigade must be overflowing here in Thailand. I have found it better to live by my own rules rather than these made up by faceless people sitting round tables. I have lived like this my whole life without ever having had a criminal record.

The most important thing is never do anything that affects the ordinary working class people in any negative way.

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, pomchop said:

How about driving without a seat belt, helmet, insurance, tax, driving license, after a few drinks,

 

Pick and choose?  Nothing to do with morality....some people have brains and would prefer to live a bit longer so they try to use their brain and make some decisions to protect them from at least a few of the more obvious threats.

The whole thing about the OP's excellent post is having real genuine common sense, and a part of that is do not ever drink or drive. If you do that then common sense is right out the window.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

2 points,

1.Heath service is not free, it's something people pay for, no customers = no profits.

2. Are you suggesting fat people are better than people not wearing seat belts?

 

I choose not to wear a seat belt, but I also choose not to overeat, and to exercise.

Seat belts have saved many lives, but also caused a few as well.

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

.. All available, (referenced to USA), or, if you want more than an existence, feel free to earn it and enjoy it.  Though not a fan of giving a share to those that don't want to contribute.  I'll share with those that can't contribute (direct or via taxes).  But the rest of y'all ... F O ,  it's mine, I earned it.   WANT MORE, DO MORE

I wasn't really thinking of people like you being rich.

I was thinking more of people with a net worth of $10M+ as rich getting the excess redistributed.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, Woof999 said:

I used it as an example, so consider that example only for territories that cover most medical issues out of a shared pot. The UK for example. If not, ignore that example and think of another.

 

I wasn't, but now that I come to think about it... putting on a seatbelt is typically a much faster, simpler, single task than curing an eating disorder or a lifetime of unhealthy living. I'd also say that using the excuse of "it's OK that I don't do this because other people don't do that" is a pretty poor argument.

 

Out of interest, why do you choose not to wear a seatbelt? The benefits of it for the vast majority are unquestionable and we're living in a country with a far higher than norm accident rate.

When anyone is killed in an accident because they were wearing a seat belt and were unable to free themselves, you will never read about it or hear it in the news.

[BritManToo]

18 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

When anyone is killed in an accident because they were wearing a seat belt and were unable to free themselves, you will never read about it or hear it in the news.

I've managed to make it to 67 without a seat belt or helmet.

How much longer do I have to wait before I'm seriously injured?

 

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, JayClay said:

You should vote for Labour.

 

Because of the two genuine options, Labour is the only option that may eventually lead to  proportional representation being implemented. Once PR is in place, you would then be able to vote for a candidate who better aligns with your views.

 

Change takes time. You probably won't be around to see what you want happen (assuming those are serious desires) being implemented. But if you genuinely want those things to happen for future generations, then vote Labour. To get society to the left, first you need to bring them back through the centre.

I have never voted Labour in my life. In my adult lifetime up until now, how often in that time has a Labour government been in power?

"Great" Britain has a working class of maybe around 80%. 

So I ask again, how come the Tories have been in power for so much of that time compared to Labour if the Labour Party is really the party of the working class?

Even today the Labour Party is ruled by a "Sir". Party of the working class my AAAAASSSSSSSS!!!!

[Adumbration]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:03 PM, BritManToo said:

Was reading the Kindle thread and thought, why are people paying for books.

Then extended that thought into why are they paying for movies and music.

What about those who won't pay for sex, or have to confess to DWP they are living overseas (and losing pension increases)?

How about driving without a seat belt, helmet, insurance, tax, driving license, after a few drinks, or too old, driving at 35mph in a 30mph zone, etc?

We seem to be surrounded by people with fixed sets or morality, do you obey them all, or pick and choose a few to follow.

For those who feel the need to pay, is using a legit library also immoral, how about listening to the radio or Spotify?

 

My only morality is to try to directly avoid harming anyone else.  

Can someone more moral than me explain how my worldview is wrong, and their worldview is right?

If you pick and choose then why?

Ok @BritManToo I will bite.  How deep do you want to go down this rabbit hole.  Have a read up on Phronesis and then get back to me.  And I will give you your next tutorial.

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, phetphet said:

I am not more moral than you, but will give my opinion.

 

Firstly. As for why some people obey, it's probably a bit to do with upbringing, education, perhaps having a strong moral compass, or a desire to be a good member of society.

 

Secondly. Many of those laws and rules are made for the smooth operation of society, or to improve or protect the lives of its members..

 

e.g. The yob in the flat upstairs might like playing loud music all night long, and think that it's his right to do what he wants in his property..

But what about the poor neighbour living below him with young children, who has to get up and go to work?

 

Where your world view is wrong is that if everybody did as they wanted, the whole system would break down.

Why write a book, if everybody is going to expect to download it for free. The same with movies, music and software. The system only still works because a large number of people are still willing to pay.

 

Even paying for sex I suppose. If no one did it, what would happen to prostitution? Don't forget the other side. Not all sex trade workers are willing participants. Human trafficking is bigger than ever. 

 

Most road laws; Motorcycle helmet, insurance, drink driving (MOT in the UK), using a mobile phone while driving etc. are for your and other road users protection.

 

Streaming stations such as Spotify and Tidal, and radio stations all around the world, all pay a royalty for every time they pay a song to that particular artist, or whoever owns the rights to that song. Some artists do sell the rights to their back catalogues.

The other side of it is that artists get their songs listened to by millions of people who might then go and buy their albums. Massive publicity for them.

 

I'm not sure how libraries work, but they are not breaking any laws.

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's an example of someone in the music industry making too much money.

When Paul McCartney wrote Yesterday back in the mid sixties, how much did he make from it during the first five years?

Probably millions, so why should anyone pay to download that song today?

Surely that is a case for getting free downloads, there are millions more examples.

[arick]

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

AUTO SEAT BELT LINKED TO ENGINE?

Call it what it is a  stupid director that  didn't see the actresse's stupid acting

[jesimps]

23 hours ago, BritManToo said:

So you're OK with driving when too old, or driving at 35mph in a 30mph zone?

Sounds like pick and choose to me!

Think of the Taffies. There's a 20mph speed limit in some areas of Wales, thanks to the lefty devolved government.

[LikeItHot]

Fear of death and indoctrinated guilt. Next question?

[Woof999]

1 hour ago, NoshowJones said:

When anyone is killed in an accident because they were wearing a seat belt and were unable to free themselves, you will never read about it or hear it in the news.

FPMSL. You're not seriously suggesting that number is significant compared to the number of lives that seat belts save?

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, jesimps said:

Think of the Taffies. There's a 20mph speed limit in some areas of Wales, thanks to the lefty devolved government.

Lefty ????????????????????

[Fairynuff]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:27 AM, spidermike007 said:

A follower mentality. Like adhering to a 90kph speed limit, on a 4 lane divided highway. I do not care how many of those inane mailbox tickets they send. I will continue throwing them away for the rest of my life. Silly laws are meant to be ignored, ridiculed and dismissed. As long as I do not harm myself or others, I have no issues with ignoring stupidity.

Why would I care if you kill yourself driving too fast, I don’t, I care about who else your stupidity might kill.

[fredwiggy]

1 hour ago, NoshowJones said:

Here's an example of someone in the music industry making too much money.

When Paul McCartney wrote Yesterday back in the mid sixties, how much did he make from it during the first five years?

Probably millions, so why should anyone pay to download that song today?

Surely that is a case for getting free downloads, there are millions more examples.

Many in the music business make way too much money just for singing and playing songs. Musicians play music because they like to play, to entertain others with their talents, but it shouldn't lead to millions. They should play because they like to play, as it used to be. That's the promoters who have made it that way. People who set up concerts, meaning the workers, electricians, roadies, and such, deserve pay because without them the musician would have to promote themselves, and that costs money. They are the backbone that keeps the musicians going. The concerts cost a lot of money  to pay the backers, the venues and the artists themselves, but they don't deserve millions for just a few songs and an hour or so of playing. Tickets should cost a lot less, and more would go, and more would sell out, and if you include the food served, more would buy if those prices would go down also. Same goes for actors and movies.

[fredwiggy]

On 9/19/2023 at 12:27 PM, spidermike007 said:

A follower mentality. Like adhering to a 90kph speed limit, on a 4 lane divided highway. I do not care how many of those inane mailbox tickets they send. I will continue throwing them away for the rest of my life. Silly laws are meant to be ignored, ridiculed and dismissed. As long as I do not harm myself or others, I have no issues with ignoring stupidity.

They set speed limits for a reason. They have figured out the safe speed one can travel on a certain road in dry conditions. In wet conditions of course you need to reduce speed. It's not a follower mentality if you are driving safely, both for you and your passengers, and the others on the road. I speed, a little over the limit, mostly when others aren't close to me. Pretty much I'm keeping up with the other drivers on the road, as many here speed also, but I'm not going much over the set limit, and I won't when it's raining, both for my own maneuvering, and the fact I know many others here aren't good drivers. And those tickets you are throwing away might come back to you, as they are in the system and when you go to register the care, they can come up where you have to pay the fines first.

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Woof999 said:

FPMSL. You're not seriously suggesting that number is significant compared to the number of lives that seat belts save?

No, I believe safety belts save a lot of lives, but they have caused a few as well.

[willi2006]

Phrases like

• "common sense"
• "real genuine common sense"
• "proper decency"
• "laws that make sense"

aren't universal.
I.e everybody makes up his own.
And by declaring them as universal other opinions are ignored or judged inferior.
 
In a society only commonly agreed rules can be regarded as common.

 

"Which politician should I vote for whom will support my 'voice'?"
"The elite creates laws/rules to benefit themselves and control the rest."

Other people have another opinion. To convince them of your opinion or to come to a common one can be hard work. Thus it's easier to ignore the common laws/rules and declare ones own as "common sense".

Edited September 20, 2023 by willi2006
Typo

[mikebike]

8 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

I suppose you think it's okay for actors, sports figures and the like to make as much money as they do for part time entertainment? That thinking is exactly why they get paid so much. None of them deserves the millions they get paid

If the creators of the entertainment or sport don't reap the benefits of their labour, then the owner-class will just take it all. Whom do you believe deserves more of the pie, capital or labour? 

[recom273]

On 9/19/2023 at 2:29 PM, BritManToo said:

You missed out music!

Shakira made $70M from her last love tour.

As for movies, none of the actors appear to be hurting.

And I don't really care if big greedy corporations fail.

 

Copyright is an odd sort of thing, charge the same for a paperback as an ebook, yet one costs nothing to make and the author still only gets 25c/sale and I have to endure ads if I buy the ebook.

The music industry has changed in recent years, big acts make more money from live performances, merch, recorded video and TV performances rather than make money for record labels. I don't think they care so much about music piracy these days, or do they? It's not like you need to purchase a physical copy any longer, you just subscribe to a streaming service and listen to it, my missus just logs on to Spotify for free, even when I have a Deezer account and had in the past bought her Apple Music she puts up with the adverts on Spotify.

 

I download music from the streaming sites (illegally) then cancel the subscription, I then have the freedom to stream at my own leisure from my own server to the car or around the house, its a labour of love, and I think to myself an increasing number of people cant be bothered with this any longer, because there is an amazing selection available on Deezer, tidal, etc. 

There are some figures that are spouted about how much (music) pirates spend on their "hobby" - they are more inclined to buy physical copies, discover and purchase new material from online stores like Bandcamp, and subscribe to both video and audio streaming services.

 

But yes, im with you .. make your own mind up - I think I would draw the line at blind drunk driving, but I would readily rip out the seatbelt warning alarm on my truck.

[fredwiggy]

14 minutes ago, mikebike said:

If the creators of the entertainment or sport don't reap the benefits of their labour, then the owner-class will just take it all. Whom do you believe deserves more of the pie, capital or labour? 

Labor, because without them, there is no artist promoting. Getting mega rich from songs is ridiculous, and always has been. There are many artists that are mediocre musicians yet are millionaires because people will buy anything, and pay for it. And there are artists that are much better musicians than some and are living like the rest of us.

[connda]

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
“Love is the law, love under will.”
--Alister Crowley, The Book Of Law

That's a tough question BMToo.  For me morality in many senses means "do no harm."  However, many people believe that you must do and act as they say or else they'll feel 'harmed."
However - I can't feel responsibly for the feelings of anyone else as their feelings and world-view may be totally irrational to me.  Overall I strive to be a 'good', compassionate person who cares for others.  But I'm no saint, nor am I evil.  I'm just a regular sorta guy.

Edited September 20, 2023 by connda

[geisha]

Each person has its own moral code. I’d never purposely hurt someone , I use kindle because I don’t have to carry multiple books around in my baggage, but I don’t litter or fly tip.  I honor my family , I am loyal to them , my friends and partners also unless they do something to hurt me badly then I can cut them out of my life forever, so that is not forgiving, so probably immoral ? I pay all my taxes etc, but that may not be a question of morality. Each to his own.