just a reminder, they will ******* kill you

[Henryford]

On 9/27/2023 at 9:20 PM, NorthernRyland said:

I've seen appalling behavior from foreigners also. They know better but for some reason they feel like "when in Rome".

 

Yes i agree, thai drivers/riders are indeed terrible but some farangs are just as bad, and they should know better. They must think that because there are no rules of the road here they can just drive/ride as they want.

[kwilco]

59 minutes ago, Henryford said:

 

Yes i agree, thai drivers/riders are indeed terrible but some farangs are just as bad, and they should know better. They must think that because there are no rules of the road here they can just drive/ride as they want.

stupidity in driving doesn't go by nationality - every country has a similr share of idiot drivers - the heart of a good road safety sytem is protecting road usrs and preventing the stupid from being stupid.

[NorthernRyland]

31 minutes ago, kwilco said:

every country has a similr share of idiot drivers

 

Thai drivers aren't stupid but they're foolhardy, reckless and selfish. Way more than other countries, hands down. The police and the people are indifferent to the carnage and will only react when someone dies but never to prevent. No system can be put in place but it would be administered by the same people who are cause the problem in the first place.

[EVENKEEL]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:33 AM, bbko said:

Reminds me of the time when I was riding my motorbike and another motorbike coming from the opposite direction wanted to pass a slow moving car in his lane, so he jumped the yellow line into mine, now we are on a head-to-head trajectory and we almost hit (in my lane) and as we pass, he has the nerve to give me a dirty look as if I should of gotten out of his way.  F these low IQ drivers.

Your scenario is everyday driving in Thailand. So, you instead of just moving over, easy peasy, you held your ground and made things worse. 

[Dickie Dee]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:01 AM, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Not to mention the <removed> Thai Police all over the place from Bangkok to Hua Hin to Pattaya to Phuket. They just love to stop farangs and take money. Of course there are also many farangs who do not respect the laws and think they can do what they like in Thailand.

 

We also have our friends the driving licence people at the DLT who in many cities will make it a point to make a fuss on driver foreigner driver licence conversion and many offices have rude staff who just love hushing foreigners away and find some excuse not to do the foreign licence conversion for Thailand.

No Desire to drive anything in Thailand.

[Dickie Dee]

Just now, Dickie Dee said:

No Desire to drive anything in Thailand.

GF drive car better than me. If not for the dent I would say twice as good as me. I got two dents. 

[NorthernRyland]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Your scenario is everyday driving in Thailand. So, you instead of just moving over, easy peasy, you held your ground and made things worse. 

Ok maybe he should have gone with the flow but that's the reason driving in Thailand is a nightmare and gets people killed. The Thai driver didn't have the patience to simply wait and follow the most basic of road rules. They can't even be bothered to meet the lowest standards of driving so what hope of safe driving is there ever going to be in the country.

 

Policing could easily fix the problem but they don't want to do that either.

 

Here's a grime example of why you stamp out these <deleted> before they kill someone. In the clip a typical dick driver is speeding and swerving belching out black smoke. To top it all off he's drunk too. How many times do you see these kinds of drivers and no one says anything or does anything about it?

 

In the end he smashes in to a 7-month pregnant Burmese women and crushes her legs. This POS then has the gaul to tell the police his breaks didn't work.  Police are just as bad for letting these drivers rule the road. 

 

 

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

Thai drivers aren't stupid but they're foolhardy, reckless and selfish. Way more than other countries, hands down. The police and the people are indifferent to the carnage and will only react when someone dies but never to prevent. No system can be put in place but it would be administered by the same people who are cause the problem in the first place.

Ok - how do you come to that conclusion? Why do you think "they're foolhardy, reckless and selfish. Way more than other countries"?

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

Ok - how do you come to that conclusion? Why do you think "they're foolhardy, reckless and selfish. Way more than other countries"?

 

Seriously? If you've been driving here long enough it should be self evident. 

[EVENKEEL]

6 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Ok maybe he should have gone with the flow but that's the reason driving in Thailand is a nightmare and gets people killed. The Thai driver didn't have the patience to simply wait and follow the most basic of road rules. They can't even be bothered to meet the lowest standards of driving so what hope of safe driving is there ever going to be in the country.

 

Policing could easily fix the problem but they don't want to do that either.

 

Here's a grime example of why you stamp out these <deleted> before they kill someone. In the clip a typical dick driver is speeding and swerving belching out black smoke. To top it all off he's drunk too. How many times do you see these kinds of drivers and no one says anything or does anything about it?

 

In the end he smashes in to a 7-month pregnant Burmese women and crushes her legs. This POS then has the gaul to tell the police his breaks didn't work.  Police are just as bad for letting these drivers rule the road. 

 

 

I agree that driving here is filled with danger. I just get along to get along. Slow moving traffic at red lights is one of my pet peeves. Electric trikes going 20km and taking up a lane or MC with side cart in the morning just idling along holding up traffic.

[NorthernRyland]

7 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I agree that driving here is filled with danger. I just get along to get along. Slow moving traffic at red lights is one of my pet peeves. Electric trikes going 20km and taking up a lane or MC with side cart in the morning just idling along holding up traffic.

It's dangerous also. Look at this one. A motorbike was passing on the left (which should be ok but he was probably going too fast) and slammed into a  guy with a cart killing him. Even if you think you can use a lane you  cannever be sure it's actually clear because someone is going so slow it's essentially an obstacle. That's one of the reasons motorbikes tend to come out in the left lane even though there's a motorbike lane they could be using.

 

 

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

Seriously? If you've been driving here long enough it should be self evident. 

"self evident" is what I have a problem with - read my bit on perception, confirmation biases etc

"

"The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status, or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we all believe that we are above-average drivers." – Dave Barry – Author/ columnist - Pulitzer Prize for Commentary

 

When it comes to road safety, the notion of "seeing is believing" is certainly not the case.

 

Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance are the two main obstacles to clear thinking when it comes to road safety, and it is important to overcome them."

Edited November 7, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

On 9/27/2023 at 3:20 PM, NorthernRyland said:

I've seen appalling behavior from foreigners also. They know better but for some reason they feel like "when in Rome".

It is my considered opinion that generally speaking foreign drivers are in fact worse than Thai drivers.

Why because they fail to adapt to the Thai driving environment.

Thai drivers have been driving here all their lives and are aware of the vagaries of driving on Thai roads - Western expats are unaware of their own failings, have a false sense of entitlement and consider their driving to be superior to everyone else's.

It is a drawback of good safety at home that drivers fall into a false sense of superiority and consider them selves to be "superb" drivers - they simply don't realise that it is the holistic road system - from cradle to grave that is keeping them safe DESPITE themselves

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

It is my considered opinion that generally speaking foreign drivers are in fact worse than Thai drivers.

Why because they fail to adapt to the Thai driving environment.

 

LOL. Imagine instead of the bus it's you driving your car. Adapt to that smart boy!

 

 

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

LOL. Imagine instead of the bus it's you driving your car. Adapt to that smart boy!

 

 

It's a bit worrying that you don't appear to understand this isn't relevant to my point.

I can show you videos and photos like this from every country in the world - the UK has whole TV shows about crashes but has one of th lowest death rates in the world

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

It is my considered opinion that generally speaking foreign drivers are in fact worse than Thai drivers.

Why because they fail to adapt to the Thai driving environment.

Thai drivers have been driving here all their lives and are aware of the vagaries of driving on Thai roads - Western expats are unaware of their own failings, have a false sense of entitlement and consider their driving to be superior to everyone else's.

It is a drawback of good safety at home that drivers fall into a false sense of superiority and consider them selves to be "superb" drivers - they simply don't realise that it is the holistic road system - from cradle to grave that is keeping them safe DESPITE themselves

I agree - whenever I go back to the old country I am amazed that
1) people pretty much keep to the speed limits, unlike back in the day when I learned to drive
2) you get in the right lane at the approach to a junction or roundabout, according to the signage, and you will probably come out on the right road.
3) there may be an argument either way for people being more tolerant - people here expect bad driving, and don't want to get involved in an accident, but they may also be unfettered arrogant aggressive drivers, while back in the old country, those hoodlums are far and few between, though not unknown.

[JimTripper]

they are dumb, bro.

 

the sooner you accept that, the less angry and frustrated you will be, because you won't expect skilled drivers.

[kwilco]

27 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I agree - whenever I go back to the old country I am amazed that
1) people pretty much keep to the speed limits, unlike back in the day when I learned to drive
2) you get in the right lane at the approach to a junction or roundabout, according to the signage, and you will probably come out on the right road.
3) there may be an argument either way for people being more tolerant - people here expect bad driving, and don't want to get involved in an accident, but they may also be unfettered arrogant aggressive drivers, while back in the old country, those hoodlums are far and few between, though not unknown.

 

Yes

1) people pretty much keep to the speed limits, unlike back in the day when I learned to drive

The fact is that most countries used to have similar death rates to Thailand (BTW – deaths per 100k is NOT the only way to look t it)

So you have to ask WHAT happened – are todays younger drivers in the West less stupid than we were? – I don’t think that is the answer

 

2) you get in the right lane at the approach to a junction or roundabout, according to the signage, and you will probably come out on the right road.

Indeed – road markings and signage are down to traffic engineers – I don’t think Thailand has anyone trained to do this job. The fact is that road markings and signage in Thailand are at best haphazard but much of the time non-existent – so choosing a lane is seldom and option

 

3 – I find Thai drivers to be VERY tolerant – they run to a different set of manners and courtesy to what we unquestioningly call “manners” in the West – it’s a different code – but once understood, you’ll find driving so much easier. Every country has aggressive and looney drivers they are there in the same numbers – there’s no “racial difference - the difference is the roads at home make it very difficult for them to give full vent to their aggression

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by kwilco

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

they are dumb, bro.

"they" - don't tell you are resorting to racist stereotyping?

[kwilco]

Firstly let’s start by pointing out that “bad driving” is a purely subjective expression.

 

The OP  is an example of everything that is mistaken with foreigners perceptions of driving in Thailand and is manifested by a reliance on anecdotal evidence and a misuse of heuristics.

 

I’d say there is an almost universal and unquestioning misinterpretation of what is happening on Thai roads.

 

This is promulgated by all forms of the media but accepted by both expats and the Thai authorities it goes against everything that science has proved about road safety and is sadly tainted with a large dose of racism. Rather than really considering the reality, critics resort to a litany of clichés and regurgitated anecdotes.

 

One of the factors is that people tend to have a narrow view of what constitutes "good" or "bad" driving. They may judge other drivers harshly based on their own personal preferences or experiences, without considering the context of the situation. For example, someone might think that a driver is "bad" for cutting them off in traffic, but they might not realize that the other driver was actually making a safe lane change to avoid an accident.

Another reason why people misinterpret driving behaviour is that they often focus on the negative aspects of driving rather than the positive ones. This can lead to a perception that there is more bad driving on the roads than there actually is. In reality, most drivers are actually quite law-abiding and considerate of other road users.

Finally, people's perceptions of driving behaviour can also be influenced by their media consumption. News reports and television shows often focus on accidents and incidents involving bad driving, which can give people a distorted view of how often these things happen. As a result, people may be more likely to notice and remember negative driving behaviour than positive behaviour.

 

[bbko]

On 11/7/2023 at 8:15 AM, EVENKEEL said:

Your scenario is everyday driving in Thailand. So, you instead of just moving over, easy peasy, you held your ground and made things worse. 

So in a split second or two, I should have just moved over without thinking who or what is on my left backside and not worry how fast they are traveling? Yeah, let me get smashed or bump another bike into an accident while jumping to my left cause some hillbilly thinks the road is his.

[bbko]

On 11/7/2023 at 5:34 AM, kwilco said:

Road Safety in Thailand

 

Is anybody actually working towards improving road safety in Thailand?

 

Most of what is published in the media about road safety in Thailand is biased and the views expressed are out of touch with modern thinking on road safety....

 

Did you do your college thesis on Road Safety in Thailand? Cause that response was super detailed, yet sadly will fall on the wrong ears.

[kwilco]

35 minutes ago, bbko said:

Did you do your college thesis on Road Safety in Thailand? Cause that response was super detailed, yet sadly will fall on the wrong ears.

see where you're coming from., but it has to be said - and yes traffic engineering was an unexpected part of a degree.

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, bbko said:

So in a split second or two, I should have just moved over without thinking who or what is on my left backside and not worry how fast they are traveling? Yeah, let me get smashed or bump another bike into an accident while jumping to my left cause some hillbilly thinks the road is his.

You're on a MB, so why were you so far right? Also you should know at all times what's behind you by constantly checking your mirrors. Not saying the other MB should ride so dangerously, but you have responsibilities as well on these roads.

 

I shake my head daily over the stupid and dangerous habits of Thai drivers, but TIT.

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

You're on a MB, so why were you so far right? Also you should know at all times what's behind you by constantly checking your mirrors. Not saying the other MB should ride so dangerously, but you have responsibilities as well on these roads.

 

I shake my head daily over the stupid and dangerous habits of Thai drivers, but TIT.

There is a bad habit of people in the event of a crash to play the "blame game" this actually isn't helpful when it comes to understanding road safety.

There is also a desire to apportioned blame to one party and claim that to beasolution.

It is in fact very unusual for any one party to be totally "at fault" in a crash from a dispassionate objective point of view.