ISRAEL IS AT WAR !

[MrMojoRisin]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Some more first hand reports from the massacres carried out by Hamas

 

‘It’s Not a War or a Battlefield. It’s a Massacre.’

Nobody could say how many of them were lying here, in Kfar Azza, but it is emerging as one of the worst sites of the bloodshed. Soldiers and rescue workers said scores, possibly hundreds, had been slaughtered here, including grandparents, infants and children.

“It’s not a war or a battlefield; it’s a massacre,” said Maj. Gen. Itai Veruv, an Israeli commander on the scene. “It’s something I never saw in my life, something more like a pogrom from our grandparents’ time.”

At least a dozen corpses were strewn along the pathways and on lawns gathering flies, some of them of Hamas fighters, others of Israelis loosely covered with blankets. The smell of death was in the air.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-kibbutz-kfar-azza.html

 

Inside Kfar Aza where Hamas militants killed families in their homes

Mr Ben Zion said Hamas gunmen who killed families, including babies, were "just a jihad machine to kill everybody, [people] without weapons, without nothing, just normal citizens that want to take their breakfast and that's all."

Some of the victims, he said, were decapitated.

"They killed them and cut some of their heads, it's a dreadful thing to see… and we must remember who is the enemy, and what our mission is, [for] justice where there is a right side and all the world needs to be behind us."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67065205

All of it, every murder committed by Hamas is a  crime against humanity that combined justly evoke comparisons with the evils of the holocaust.

 

The simple reality is that it all will continue until Israel ends its occupation of Palestine.

[Hanaguma]

37 minutes ago, MrMojoRisin said:

All of it, every murder committed by Hamas is a  crime against humanity that combined justly evoke comparisons with the evils of the holocaust.

 

The simple reality is that it all will continue until Israel ends its occupation of Palestine.

Define "occupation" and "Palestine". Because Israel hasn't occupied Gaza for a long time. 

These are not people seeking a political settlement to a problem. They have been raised from birth on poisonous propaganda, taught that their enemy (Jews) are less than human, and get paid when their children die in suicide attacks. How do you negotiate with someone whose default position is "you and everyone like you has to die"?

[Jeff the Chef]

[thaibeachlovers]

51 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

Once the Israelis recovered their footing after the initial surprise they knew that the incursion would be rapidly defeated, and they knew the reaction it would provoke. They didn't care, perhaps they welcome it.

I for one do not think they expected to "win" by any means. They knew that the israeli military could easily kill them all, once they responded.

I think they have had enough of being in a prison camp, denied freedom to travel, subject to restrictions on everything etc etc etc.

I think they decided to burn the whole facade down and show the world that they were not just going to suffer for eternity, which was the status quo.

They certainly gave the israelis a bloody nose, exposed their "intelligence operation" as a sham, embarrassed the much vaunted military, and have provoked a response that will force countries like Saudi to take sides.

 

What has been a surprise to me is how quickly the americans abandoned any pretense to be an honest broker, and are even giving the israelis more munitions that will likely be used to kill innocent Gazans without conditions.

Biden is attempting to portray himself as a strong leader, shaking the force force force rattle, with not a word about restraint, observing international law etc. The americans have not even condemned the cut off of water to Gaza, while apparently even the EU has done so.

One suspects the election next year may have something to do with that, but it's a strategy that may come back to bite him, as the toll of dead Gaza children mounts inexorably.

[Jeff the Chef]

12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Define "occupation" and "Palestine". Because Israel hasn't occupied Gaza for a long time. 

These are not people seeking a political settlement to a problem. They have been raised from birth on poisonous propaganda, taught that their enemy (Jews) are less than human, and get paid when their children die in suicide attacks. How do you negotiate with someone whose default position is "you and everyone like you has to die"?

Totally correct but Israeli governments have blockaded  Gaza since 2007 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Define "occupation" and "Palestine". Because Israel hasn't occupied Gaza for a long time. 

These are not people seeking a political settlement to a problem. They have been raised from birth on poisonous propaganda, taught that their enemy (Jews) are less than human, and get paid when their children die in suicide attacks. How do you negotiate with someone whose default position is "you and everyone like you has to die"?

How do you negotiate with someone whose default position is "you and everyone like you has to die"?

 

You can't. What you should do is prevent that situation arising in the first place by recognising that Palestinians are people with a legitimate claim to a state of their own and not stealing their land and oppressing them for 30 years.

 

Bombing Gaza into oblivion is only making more enemies that will kill israelis in the future. The Palestinians are not going away.

 

The world is watching.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

I see myself in neither camp. I have taken part in neither the "worst filth, the biggest lies, the most disgusting and vile dehumanising cheerleading", nor have I expressed anti Semitism.

According to some here like  @Eloquent pilgrim if you criticize Israel, or show any compassion for Palestine, you are antisemitic. 

[herfiehandbag]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

According to some here like  @Eloquent pilgrim if you criticize Israel, or show any compassion for Palestine, you are antisemitic. 

And others who allocate you arbitrarily to"camps" of their own classification, and suggest that any view that Israel may have any case is "worst filth, the biggest lies, the most disgusting and vile dehumanising cheerleading".

 

A bit like the world's view on Israel and the Palestinians really.

[Hanaguma]

12 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Totally correct but Israeli governments have blockaded  Gaza since 2007 

I seem to recall a border on the west side with another country though...

...and Gaza also manages to have one of the highest fertility rates in the world, a continually growing population (more than half a million in the past decade), and continuously increasing life expectancy.

 

Pretty crap blockade.

[NickyLouie]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

The Palestinians are not going away.

 

 

Ummm, sit back and watch.

 

Glad you're a fan of radical Islam have you been around these ppl much?

 

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just seen on Al Jazeera. Israel bombs the border crossing to Egypt to stop Palestinians leaving.

Seems netanyahu was just lying when he said Gazan's should leave, as they can't now even if they want to.

So they are blocking them leaving and stopping any food and water? 

What exactly are they trying to do?

[Jeff the Chef]

15 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

I seem to recall a border on the west side with another country though...

...and Gaza also manages to have one of the highest fertility rates in the world, a continually growing population (more than half a million in the past decade), and continuously increasing life expectancy.

 

Pretty crap blockade.

WTF has fertility rates got to do with a 16 year blockade and a western border Mediterranean sea, which is also blockaded by Israel?

[MrMojoRisin]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Define "occupation" and "Palestine". Because Israel hasn't occupied Gaza for a long time. 

These are not people seeking a political settlement to a problem. They have been raised from birth on poisonous propaganda, taught that their enemy (Jews) are less than human, and get paid when their children die in suicide attacks. How do you negotiate with someone whose default position is "you and everyone like you has to die"?

Occupation - a continued presence outside of your sovereign borders with an unopposed ability to exercise indiscriminate power over people who are not citizens of your country.

 

Your second paragraph is nonsense, crap made up by Israeli apologists looking to justify their idiotic proclamations of "Israel's right to exist" and "Israel has a right to defend itself".

 

It is not Israel's existence that is in question, it is Palestine's.

[rabas]

3 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

The difference is the era in which the events are occurring. Humanity has evolved and what was once acceptable is no longer.

Post WW2 saw the end of overt colonialism everywhere except.....

Ukraine?

 

How does your theory of human advancement account for the utterly unspeakable acts of Hamas?  Hamas and those supporting them are the anchor preventing human advancement. 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by rabas

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, MrMojoRisin said:

All of it, every murder committed by Hamas is a  crime against humanity that combined justly evoke comparisons with the evils of the holocaust.

 

The simple reality is that it all will continue until Israel ends its occupation of Palestine.

Not quite that simple when Hamas has previously vowed to kill all Jews

 

“Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them.” 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

Ukraine?

 

How does your theory of human advancement account for the utterly unspeakable acts of Hamas?  Hamas and those supporting them are the anchor preventing human advancement. 

 

There is no excuse for inhumanity by any of the protagonists, no parties involved in the crisis have any right to peace while they carry on fighting each other in this way. I have no sympathy for either side, they are both barbaric excuses for human beings.

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not quite that simple when Hamas has previously vowed to kill all Jews

 

“Seven million Palestinians outside, enough warming up, you have Jews with you in every place. You should attack every Jew possible in all the world and kill them.” 

There is no excuse for inhumanity by any of the protagonists, no parties involved in the crisis have any right to peace while they carry on fighting each other in this way. I have no sympathy for either side, they are both barbaric excuses for human beings.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

According to some here like  @Eloquent pilgrim if you criticize Israel, or show any compassion for Palestine, you are antisemitic. 

It is reported in “The Times” this morning that the brave fighters from Hamas targeted the “youngsters quarter” in Kfar Aza, where the corpses of up to 40 babies have now been found, many with their throats slit.

 

This is a depraved barbarity not seen since the Holocaust; they then return to Gaza where they hide in schools, hospitals and nurseries, hoping to invite collateral casualties on the Palestinian population in order to gain sympathy and support for their cause, which is to eradicate all jews.

 

You, and a couple of other posters on here, continually try to justify this unprecedented barbarity, and rather than condemn it, you just criticise any response that Israel make. I was hoping that by now you may have recalibrated your moral compass, but regrettably, I truly believe that you do not possess the ability for introspection.

[seajae]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I for one do not think they expected to "win" by any means. They knew that the israeli military could easily kill them all, once they responded.

I think they have had enough of being in a prison camp, denied freedom to travel, subject to restrictions on everything etc etc etc.

I think they decided to burn the whole facade down and show the world that they were not just going to suffer for eternity, which was the status quo.

They certainly gave the israelis a bloody nose, exposed their "intelligence operation" as a sham, embarrassed the much vaunted military, and have provoked a response that will force countries like Saudi to take sides.

 

What has been a surprise to me is how quickly the americans abandoned any pretense to be an honest broker, and are even giving the israelis more munitions that will likely be used to kill innocent Gazans without conditions.

Biden is attempting to portray himself as a strong leader, shaking the force force force rattle, with not a word about restraint, observing international law etc. The americans have not even condemned the cut off of water to Gaza, while apparently even the EU has done so.

One suspects the election next year may have something to do with that, but it's a strategy that may come back to bite him, as the toll of dead Gaza children mounts inexorably.

yes killing children and babies then cutting off their heads shows how much of a man they are, these people are demented and brainwashed animals, while I had no qualms with hamas and Israel soldiers killing each other what hamas has done now has changed all that. Israel needs to eliminate them all so it never happens again, what hamas has done is the lowest of low, slaughtering innocents was not the way to go and has condemned them all to hell.  Anyone supporting what hamas has done deserves to be put in the same basket, if you think this is ok then you have a very twisted mind, anyone that cheers slaughtering  and beheading of innocents shows just how pathetically minded they really are, maybe if it was those that support what hamas has done had their wife and children/baby  killed and beheaded by these animals they might stop and have a more rational thought on it, I have lost all sympathy for pallestinians after this, if Israel destroy them then as far as I am concerned  they deserve it, killing enimies is expected but taking heads afterwards shows how backward those doing it and those supporting it really are, they do not deserve to be a part of humanity

[Eloquent pilgrim]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just seen on Al Jazeera. Israel bombs the border crossing to Egypt to stop Palestinians leaving.

Seems netanyahu was just lying when he said Gazan's should leave, as they can't now even if they want to.

I don’t suppose for one minute that it crossed your anti-Israeli train of thought that they have done this to prevent the barbaric Hamas fighters that slaughtered 40 babies in Kfar Aza, and others that want to run away, from escaping across the border.

 

Regrettable as it is that peaceable Palestinians wanting understandably to leave Gaza now cannot, the reason for that is entirely at the feet of the brave Hamas fighters that slit the throats of babies and now want to run away ……

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

I seem to recall a border on the west side with another country though...

...and Gaza also manages to have one of the highest fertility rates in the world, a continually growing population (more than half a million in the past decade), and continuously increasing life expectancy.

 

Pretty crap blockade.

Egypt colludes to keep Gazans trapped in the enclave, but I thought you would have known that.

 

A growing population indeed, and they will all grow up wanting to kill israelis if something doesn't happen to let them have freedom, like you enjoy.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Eloquent pilgrim said:

I don’t suppose for one minute that it crossed your anti-Israeli train of thought that they have done this to prevent the barbaric Hamas fighters that slaughtered 40 babies in Kfar Aza, and others that want to run away, from escaping across the border.

 

Regrettable as it is that peaceable Palestinians wanting understandably to leave Gaza now cannot, the reason for that is entirely at the feet of the brave Hamas fighters that slit the throats of babies and now want to run away ……

and the israeli apologists refuse to acknowledge the root cause that created Hamas in the first place.

How would you feel if you were born into a prison camp and denied freedom? Would you be happy to accept your prisoner status, or would you fight back any way you could?

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, seajae said:

yes killing children and babies then cutting off their heads shows how much of a man they are, these people are demented and brainwashed animals, while I had no qualms with hamas and Israel soldiers killing each other what hamas has done now has changed all that. Israel needs to eliminate them all so it never happens again, what hamas has done is the lowest of low, slaughtering innocents was not the way to go and has condemned them all to hell.  Anyone supporting what hamas has done deserves to be put in the same basket, if you think this is ok then you have a very twisted mind, anyone that cheers slaughtering  and beheading of innocents shows just how pathetically minded they really are, maybe if it was those that support what hamas has done had their wife and children/baby  killed and beheaded by these animals they might stop and have a more rational thought on it, I have lost all sympathy for pallestinians after this, if Israel destroy them then as far as I am concerned  they deserve it, killing enimies is expected but taking heads afterwards shows how backward those doing it and those supporting it really are, they do not deserve to be a part of humanity

Well said indeed seajae; however there are posters on here that will still be defending, excusing and justifying the barbarity of Hamas …. here they come

[novacova]

12 hours ago, Morch said:

No. People who make antisemitic remarks are called out. Criticizing Israel is quite fine, without crossing that line.

This thread is full of antisemitism hiding behind the guise of neutrality and negating the atrocities of Hamas, in particular conflating the criminal act of Hamas murdering their own civilians by putting them in harm’s way at command posts and ordnance sites, then blaming the IDF for the atrocities of Hamas. The antisemitism is clear as day.

[spidermike007]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Agree, but seems biden has just given them free reign to carry out the destruction of Gaza with his warmongering speech where he promises full support for israel and even hints of direct involvement. No calls for restraint at all.

Biden has the blood of children on his hands too, IMO.

American foreign policy has been lost in space for a long time now. It is a nation in severe decline and the politics is a reflection of that. 

[novacova]

8 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine

 

We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. 

 

Today’s events did not occur in a vacuum. For the last two decades, millions of Palestinians in Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison. Israeli officials promise to “open the gates of hell,” and the massacres in Gaza have already commenced. Palestinians in Gaza have no shelters for refuge and nowhere to escape. In the coming days, Palestinians will be forced to bear the full brunt of Israel’s violence. 

 

The apartheid regime is the only one to blame. Israeli violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for 75 years. From systematized land seizures to routine airstrikes, arbitrary detentions to military checkpoints, and enforced family separations to targeted killings, Palestinians have been forced to live in a state of death, both slow and sudden. 

 

Today, the Palestinian ordeal enters into uncharted territory. The coming days will require a firm stand against colonial retaliation. We call on the Harvard community to take action to stop the ongoing annihilation of Palestinians.

 

African American Resistance Organization 

Bengali Association of Students at Harvard College

Harvard Arab Medical and Dental Student Association

Harvard Chan Muslim Student Association 

Harvard Chan Students for Health Equity and Justice in Palestine

Harvard College Pakistan Student Association

Harvard Divinity School Muslim Association

Harvard Middle Eastern and North African Law Student Association

Harvard Graduate School of Education Islamic Society

Harvard Graduate Students for Palestine

Harvard Law School Justice for Palestine

Harvard Divinity School Students for Justice in Palestine

Harvard Jews for Liberation

Harvard Kennedy School Bangladesh Caucus

Harvard Kennedy School Muslim Caucus

Harvard Kennedy School Muslim Women’s Caucus 

Harvard Kennedy School Palestine Caucus

Harvard Muslim Law School Association

Harvard Pakistan Forum

Harvard Prison Divest Coalition

Harvard South Asian Law Students Association

Harvard South Asians for Forward-Thinking Advocacy and Research

Harvard TPS Coalition

Harvard Undergraduate Arab Women's Collective

Harvard Undergraduate Ghungroo

Harvard Undergraduate Muslim Women’s Medical Alliance

Harvard Undergraduate Nepali Students Association

Harvard Undergraduate Palestine Solidarity Committee

Middle East and North African Graduate School of Design Student Society

Neighbor Program Cambridge

Sikhs and Companions of Harvard Undergraduates 

Society of Arab Students

 

This is unfortunately the antisemitism that is inflicted the west. Blinded by the rabble rousing no different than the KKK. 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I for one do not think they expected to "win" by any means. They knew that the israeli military could easily kill them all, once they responded.

I think they have had enough of being in a prison camp, denied freedom to travel, subject to restrictions on everything etc etc etc.

I think they decided to burn the whole facade down and show the world that they were not just going to suffer for eternity, which was the status quo.

They certainly gave the israelis a bloody nose, exposed their "intelligence operation" as a sham, embarrassed the much vaunted military, and have provoked a response that will force countries like Saudi to take sides.

 

What has been a surprise to me is how quickly the americans abandoned any pretense to be an honest broker, and are even giving the israelis more munitions that will likely be used to kill innocent Gazans without conditions.

Biden is attempting to portray himself as a strong leader, shaking the force force force rattle, with not a word about restraint, observing international law etc. The americans have not even condemned the cut off of water to Gaza, while apparently even the EU has done so.

One suspects the election next year may have something to do with that, but it's a strategy that may come back to bite him, as the toll of dead Gaza children mounts inexorably.

Isreal gets around $12 billion a year in aid from the US, and turns around and spends around $2 billion of it lobbying the US Senate and Congress. They are the largest lobbyist on the planet. The US has no independence. Obama is the only president who has truly stood up to their machine. 

[thaibeachlovers]

10 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Well said indeed seajae; however there are posters on here that will still be defending, excusing and justifying the barbarity of Hamas …. here they come

They are taking a while to arrive.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Isreal gets around $12 billion a year in aid from the US, and turns around and spends around $2 billion of it lobbying the US Senate and Congress. They are the largest lobbyist on the planet. The US has no independence. Obama is the only president who has truly stood up to their machine. 

Nah. After making a good show the first time netanyahu turned up, as I remember it he bottled the second time and gave him the big show greeting.

I guess his "sponsors" had a word with him after the first time.

[novacova]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just seen on Al Jazeera. Israel bombs the border crossing to Egypt to stop Palestinians leaving.

Seems netanyahu was just lying when he said Gazan's should leave, as they can't now even if they want to.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/bombardments-hit-area-gaza-sinai-border-crossing-gaza-officials-2023-10-10/

Pressure on Gaza border alarms Egypt as strikes close crossing

 

Also, israel has been attacking ambulances

https://www.anews.com.tr/middle-east/2023/10/10/israeli-warplanes-target-4-ambulances-in-gaza

Israeli warplanes target 4 ambulances in Gaza

 

 

Israel is creating millions of enemies that will be dedicated to killing israelis for generations. Hamas will have to turn away potential recruits as there will be so many

Good grief, get off it already. The border along Egypt is being bombarded to prevent the Hamas leadership from escaping, though they’ll be hunted and killed no matter where they hide. Ambulances are Hamas transport vehicles.