Old age pensions of the World

[georgegeorgia]

I'm trying to find out about other countries Govt  Social Security benefits when you get to retirement age .

 

It seems the USA had the best where you can get Government benefits at 62 and head off to Asia 

 

With Australia the worst waiting until 67yo nowadays but must be residing in the Country 2 years beforehand to gain access to overseas payment.

 

New Zealand told but not sure that kiwis cannot get the old age pension sent overseas ?????? Am I wrong ?

 

The UK is 67yo but apparently their pension freezes in Thailand,but they can apply from Thailand and no need for them to go back to the UK to apply unlike Australia

 

Not sure about Ireland

Denmark , Sweden ,Germany please tell , 

 

 

[Jingthing]

I recall Japan pays out massively but not sure about the age required.

Norway pays medical bills for expats. 

I don't have the link now but I recently saw an article which ranked national retirement systems and the U.S. ranked in the middle as average.

Though I can see your angle is expat friendly retirement systems. 

That would be interesting to see a detailed report on that.

About the U.S. age 62 thing. At that age you get reduced by 25 percent pay and that's in effect for life, so not as great as you might think. Full payout varies by birthday but is roughly 66. Wait until 70 and you get more.

[Ben Zioner]

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

With Australia the worst waiting until 67yo nowadays but must be residing in the Country 2 years beforehand to gain access to overseas payment.

Australia just sucks, worked there 7 years and paid income tax in  the highest bracket, and I am entitled  to ZERO.

[EVENKEEL]

For guys from the US collecting at age 62 and have kids, they get another check for the kid till it reaches age 18 or older if they attend college.

[gomangosteen]

New Zealand - for NZers residing permanently overseas in retirement past age 65, they must have lived in New Zealand a minimum of five years between ages 50 and 65.

 

If qualified as above, there is a percentage calculation of the basic national superannuation rate which is based on how many years living abroad (does not include Australia or UK and some other countries with reciprocal superannuation agreements).

 

It's calculated per month between ages 20 and 65.

45 years @ 12 months = 540.

 

As an example, if a person had been living in Thailand ten years between 20-65, that's 120 months they 'lose', they could receive an amount 420/540 (just under 78% of the basic rate).

 

The current full weekly basic rate is NZ$496 = 10,500 baht, so my 'ten years in Thailand' example would receive around 8000 baht per month.

 

NZers can also travel overseas / holiday for up to 26 weeks of each year and retain their superannuation.

 

[gearbox]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Australia just sucks, worked there 7 years and paid income tax in  the highest bracket, and I am entitled  to ZERO.

Depends on the point of view...it is the best pension for freeloaders and dole bludgers. You can get it without working a single day.

[Henryford]

Freezing the UK annual pension increase is a bummer. Not too bad when inflation was 1-2% but now it's 7-10% it will quickly erode the pension to nothing. The rules are stupid whereby someone say in the USA gets an increase but someone in the Commonwealth countries, Australia/Canada etc, does not.

[KhunLA]

For USA ...

"The Social Security full retirement age is: 65 for those born in 1937 and earlier. 66 for those born between 1943 and 1954. 67 for those born in 1960 or later."

source: SSa.gov

 

Myself, Dec 1954, so didn't collect 'retirement' until 66 yrs old.   A bit irrelevant for myself, as been collecting full disability since 2001, and only the 'name' changed  at age 66 😂  I'm a blight on society, and getting all those tax $$$ back.

 

Brother, not collecting yet, as born 1960, and living off company pension (took early) and ex-wife's death benefits of 1/2 till he turns 67, and more than enough.

 

Living overseas has 'almost' no effect on benefits.  Unless living in a 2 countries; Cuba, N. Korea, if non US citizen.

 

Soc Sec won't send benefits to these:

Azerbaijan

Belarus

Cuba

Kazakhstan

Kyrgyzstan

Moldova

North Korea

Tajikistan

Turkmenistan

Uzbekistan

 

SS will hold your bennies, till you move to a country they will send it to, so nothing lost.

Edited October 23, 2023 by KhunLA

[jaideedave]

15 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Depends on the point of view...it is the best pension for freeloaders and dole bludgers. You can get it without working a single day.

Canada has OAP at 65 whether or not you ever worked.In theory you can come out of prison at 64 and enjoy OAP for the seat of your life.Just get used to using food banks and line up behind the so called asylum seekers.

[thaicurious]

US is a bit more complex than just a 25% reduction for early retirement

 

For one thing,

Early or Late Retirement (ssa.gov) 

"A worker can choose to retire as early as age 62, but doing so may result in a reduction of as much as 30 percent..

In the case of early retirement, a benefit is reduced 5/9 of one percent for each month before normal retirement age, up to 36 months. If the number of months exceeds 36, then the benefit is further reduced 5/12 of one percent per month."   For another, What Social Security Could Look Like in 2035 (yahoo.com) "If you plan to rely on the program in 2035, keep in mind there's a chance you could receive less in Social Security benefits than you might have expected. If no changes are made to deal with the trust fund shortfall, benefits will have to be reduced by 24.9%, according to the 2022 annual report from the board of trustees."   So if the avg benefit now is $1,782/month. minus up to 30% for drawing early = $1,247 minus another future cut in year 2035 = $936.80, and that after 12 years of inflation of which social security will only partly keep up with.   Burdening that further is the loss of Medicare you might be eligible for (depending on work history) benefits of which do not transfer overseas. The best bet then might be paying into Medicare instead of private insurance & living in Mexico, not Thailand, to benefit from reduced cost of living while remaining accessible to American healthcare, or simply moving to, yikes, Mississippi. Never been but gonna guess not a lot of Thai food there.

[itsari]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

Australia just sucks, worked there 7 years and paid income tax in  the highest bracket, and I am entitled  to ZERO.

I worked and paid tax for 15 years in Australia and left the country in 1987 . 

Now my pension points can not be used as i have to live there for two years .

The portability rule was not introduced until many years after i left . 

Therefore the enforcement of 2 years is illegal in my case .

Yes , Australia sucks 

[Captain Monday]

US social security is NOT a pension it is more of a mandatory insurance policy.

 

We can argue over the terminology like everything else and can call it what you want as long as you understand the rules. In my case by the time I had a decent job they had rolled out got these 401k/Roth programs in most of my industry so I will never get a "pension".  Deciding to when start taking SS payments is a gamble. Medicare something I'll probably never use. America sucks.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Captain Monday

[norbra]

1 hour ago, Henryford said:

Freezing the UK annual pension increase is a bummer. Not too bad when inflation was 1-2% but now it's 7-10% it will quickly erode the pension to nothing. The rules are stupid whereby someone say in the USA gets an increase but someone in the Commonwealth countries, Australia/Canada etc, does not.

Australian OAP provide "cost of living" increases every March and September for all , including expats

Edited October 23, 2023 by norbra

[Lacessit]

I am still confused  over the two year rule in Australia. I had been overseas several times before qualifying for the OAP, my understanding was I had to be in Australia the day I became eligible, and have been resident for 35 years to get the full entitlement.

I have no complaint about the pension. It may not be as generous as some; however, it is adequate for my life in Thailand.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Australia just sucks, worked there 7 years and paid income tax in  the highest bracket, and I am entitled  to ZERO.

Some of your salary should have gone into a superannuation fund, which would be refunded when you left Australia. Unless you were not taxed in Australia.

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

US social security is NOT a pension it is more of a mandatory insurance policy.

 

We can argue over the terminology like everything else and can call it what you want as long as you understand the rules. In my case by the time I had a decent job they had rolled out got these 401k/Roth programs in most of my industry so I will never get a "pension".  Deciding to when start taking SS payments is a gamble. Medicare something I'll probably never use. America sucks.

Old age social security is equivalent to a pension.

A GOVERNMENT pension.

Some lucky Americans also have PRIVATE pensions.

Private pensions used to be more common but IRAs and 401ks were meant to replace them.

 

On the expat angle its common for countries to have different rules for government vs. private pensions. Government pensions are seen as more secure for life. All expat destination countries correctly regard old age social security as a government pension. 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, thaicurious said:

.... or simply moving to, yikes, Mississippi. Never been but gonna guess not a lot of Thai food there.

[In Full Agreement]

46 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Deciding to when start taking SS payments is a gamble. Medicare something I'll probably never use. America sucks.

 

Are you paying into the Medicare system?

 

[brianthainess]

6 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

The UK is 67yo

Pension credit is/was available at 60 yo.

[KhunLA]

USA Soc Sec is something every worker pays into.  After certain amount of years/points, then you acquire the right to full benefits at retirement age, or earlier if needed for health reasons.

 

Along with other social programs, so nobody needs to be on the street or go hungry in the USA, theory anyway, and location dependent.  An existence at least, with free medical.

 

Company pensions are few now of days, and best if guaranteed by union vs the company, as the national unions seem to last longer.  My company pension is through the Union, a good thing, as the company went bankrupt.  A pittance, and even more so, since it took it early, at a 48% penalty, I think.  Bad decision if I live longer than 75 yrs old 😂  Only worked there 13 yrs anyway, and left on best contract.  Sadly, a co-worker/friend, recently retired, after 40 yrs, and gets less than my full pension would have been.  How F'd up is that?  Due to Union give backs and bankruptcy court agreements.  Really screwed in that aspect.

[Captain Monday]

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Old age social security is equivalent to a pension.

A GOVERNMENT pension.

Some lucky Americans also have PRIVATE pensions.

Private pensions used to be more common but IRAs and 401ks were meant to replace them.

 

On the expat angle its common for countries to have different rules for government vs. private pensions. Government pensions are seen as more secure for life. All expat destination countries correctly regard old age social security as a government pension. 

Some day past reaching  62 I enroll to receive a monthly payment from the GOVERNMENT. I just try to use the proper termoinology just as one does not "renew" one's visa or get a permission to stay stamped in at Chiang Mai airport "customs".

 

"Not a pension"  was explained by a so-called retirement and insurance Union subject matter expert in seminar.  Some US/state/local govt pensions will reduce social security benefit, military benefits won't, there was a whole railroad retirement scheme. A spouse benefit that is really based on working at all, SSI, etc.

 

Key being private pensions have a set benefit, and don't offset each other or what you receive from Uncle Sam.

 

Yes, a monthly guaranteed check from the US govt is equivalent to a pension for me so all I need to know.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Captain Monday

[cdemundo]

I have a strong preference to call these benefits "retirement pensions".

I don't like to think of myself as an "old age pensioner" even if everyone else calls me that.

[Captain Monday]

21 minutes ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

Are you paying into the Medicare system?

 

Of course, automatically deducted every month along with other deductions, and a huge chunk of income tax wasted on who knows what. Problem It is not portable internationally after I retire I plan NEVER to go there again !

[gargamon]

1 hour ago, jaideedave said:

Canada has OAP at 65 whether or not you ever worked.In theory you can come out of prison at 64 and enjoy OAP for the seat of your life.Just get used to using food banks and line up behind the so called asylum seekers.

Canada has 2 “pensions“. OAS (old age security} and CPP (Canada pension plan). CPP is like US social security where you pay a portion of your wages and get a pension when you retire. You need 40 quarters (10 years) of employment to get paid. OAS is for people who don't get CPP and is means and income dependant. If you don't live in Canada after retirement, you need 20 years residency to get your OAS overseas.

 

I worked in Canada for exactly 40 quarters, the minimum. I also worked in the US for exactly 40 quarters, the minimum for full social security there. There is an agreement between Canada and the US where you can't collect both pensions. My us pension would be around 3k USD when I start to take it at 70. My Canadian pension would be about 500 CDN. Guess which one I'll be taking. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by gargamon

[Northstar1]

8 minutes ago, gargamon said:

Canada has 2 “pensions“. OAS (old age security} and CPP (Canada pension plan). CPP is like US social security where you pay a portion of your wages and get a pension when you retire. You need 40 quarters (10 years) of employment to get paid. OAS is for people who don't get CPP and is means and income dependant. If you don't live in Canada after retirement, you need 20 years residency to get your OAS overseas.

 

I worked in Canada for exactly 40 quarters, the minimum. I also worked in the US for exactly 40 quarters, the minimum for full social security there. There is an agreement between Canada and the US where you can't collect both pensions. My us pension would be around 3k USD when I start to take it at 70. My Canadian pension would be about 500 CDN. Guess which one I'll be taking. 

Being Canadian I too am entitled to 2 pensions.

I can take my Canada pension at 60 at a reduced rate and old age pension at 65.

I can wait till 65 for my Canada pension at full rate.

along with free health care, free prescription drugs, dental work can be deducted from my tax to a certain amount.

free long term care when I need my diapers changed!

along with my work pension.

I feel fortunate to live in Canada 🇨🇦 

[KhunLA]

NOT A TRUMP VS BIDEN CONVERSATION (PLENTY OF THOSE) just an observation of administrations and debt increases.  All things, including interest & inflation affects our buying power, where ever we live.

 

And for those Yanks keeping score, inflation vs COLA, aren't even close.  Inflation easily 100-150% since 2000.   So spend it now, as worth less tomorrow 😎

 

-0- inflation, that's just insulting

 

Why I love Biden and hope for a win in 2024 🤣

(COLA = 17.8 % + 25% (exchange rate)

2024 - 3.2%

 

Along w/better exchange rate, for whatever reason

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by KhunLA

[Longwood50]

1 hour ago, Captain Monday said:

US social security is NOT a pension it is more of a mandatory insurance policy.

The USA social security system is the worlds largest Ponzi scheme.  

There is NO MONEY IN SOCIAL SECURITY as it is structured there can't be. 

1. Money comes into the government and is earmarked as social security
2. Money then is "borrowed" and replaced with IOU's called Treasury Bonds and called "invested"  - So the government owes back to the social security trust fund the money borrowed.
3. The US governement unable to pay its ongoing expenditures borrows more money to pay the interest on the bonds owed to social security

4. All the money from current workers is used to pay the benefits to retired recipients
5. This system is merely accounting smoke and mirrors.  It relys totally on new cash from current workers and borrowed money. 

You can not loan money to yourself and call it invested. It like spending the cash in your left pocket and putting a piece of paper called an IOU in your right pocket and saying, no see I still have the money its invested. 

 

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

The USA social security system is the worlds largest Ponzi scheme.  

There is NO MONEY IN SOCIAL SECURITY as it is structured there can't be. 

1. Money comes into the government and is earmarked as social security
2. Money then is "borrowed" and replaced with IOU's called Treasury Bonds and called "invested"  - So the government owes back to the social security trust fund the money borrowed.
3. The US governement unable to pay its ongoing expenditures borrows more money to pay the interest on the bonds owed to social security

4. All the money from current workers is used to pay the benefits to retired recipients
5. This system is merely accounting smoke and mirrors.  It relys totally on new cash from current workers and borrowed money. 

You can not loan money to yourself and call it invested. It like spending the cash in your left pocket and putting a piece of paper called an IOU in your right pocket and saying, no see I still have the money its invested. 

 

Yes, originally set up to be self funding and worked just fine, until the criminals started borrowing it.

 

Now it is destined to become solvent in the future, and not too distant if they don't do something.

[gargamon]

12 minutes ago, Northstar1 said:

Being Canadian I too am entitled to 2 pensions.

I can take my Canada pension at 60 at a reduced rate and old age pension at 65.

I can wait till 65 for my Canada pension at full rate.

along with free health care, free prescription drugs, dental work can be deducted from my tax to a certain amount.

free long term care when I need my diapers changed!

along with my work pension.

I feel fortunate to live in Canada 🇨🇦 

I see you obviously haven't needed to use the health care system in Canada. Wait until you need to use it. Need a specialist? Get in line and wait months/years to get in to see them. The free long term care consists of them keeping you locked in a room and sedated most of the day. Need the ER? Waits over 10 hours are normal.

 

I considered all that and decided I'd rather live in Thailand where I can get 24/7 one on one support if needed for cheap. And guess what? It never snows in Thailand. 

[Longwood50]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yes, originally set up to be self funding and worked just fine, until the criminals started borrowing it.

If it operated as originally intended there would be trillions in the Social Security Trust Fund.  Look at Norway they have the largest investment fund in the world at $1.5 trillion dollars.  However they government of Norway does not issue bonds, borrow the money and call it invested.  The wealth fund invests in stocks around the world.  It currently holds 1.4% of all of the worlds stock. 

With the USA it always was a Ponzi scheme.  You can never have money truly invested unless you are holding some form of investment other than debt from your treasury. 
That was never true with Social Security.  

The only difference truly was when they moved it from a separate accounting to be part of the general budget.  That allowed the surplus to go to the general fund where it is spent. That in truth is precious little difference other than accounting entries.  Functionally it remained the same.  Excess money was borrowed and spent.