Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Morch, I made my point above. I can see and read all the new reports myself. What I can't do, and what I HOPE is the purpose of Asean Forums, is to discuss the issues with others and hearing (reading) what their point of view is on these subjects. 

 

You have no point. You're basically trying to say that opinion and fact are on equal footing, and that there's no need to support opinions with facts. Considering many on here disregard major news outlets (leaning this way or that), I would guess that for most, even the choice of media outlets is biased - and therefore their take on things as well.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

I am the polar opposite of Alex Jones. I am a far, far-left liberal.  

 

Obviously that got nothing to do with belief in conspiracy theories.

[WDSmart]

Just now, Morch said:

 

You have no point. You're basically trying to say that opinion and fact are on equal footing, and that there's no need to support opinions with facts. Considering many on here disregard major news outlets (leaning this way or that), I would guess that for most, even the choice of media outlets is biased - and therefore their take on things as well.

Morch, No, I'm not saying opinion and fact are on equal footing.

What I'm saying about "fact" is just because you read it on CNN or FOX doesn't make it a fact. As you admitted, these outlets are biased and present different versions of the "facts."

What I'm saying about "opinion" is that most everyone has their own opinion of things. And it is that opinion that I am interested in. I might not agree with it and respond with my own opinion, but that's what I think discussions are all about.

[Nick Carter icp]

•  

• The resumption of hostilities came as the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, appeared to brush aside US calls to pursue a more restrained military campaign. Netanyahu said his country’s forces were now “charging forward” and that the plan was for a total military victory. In a difficult meeting on Thursday, US secretary of state Antony Blinken clashed with the Israeli cabinet and insisted the level of civilian casualties had to be reduced in any resumed assault and that Israel had to share its long-term objectives for Gaza with moderate Arab states.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-ceasefire-latest-news-extension-israel-frees-30-palestinians-hostages-released-news

[Morch]

Starvation, whispering and psychological terror: Life of captives in Gaza

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/h13wxhlba

 

Relative of freed captives say Hamas branded child hostages in case they escaped

https://www.timesofisrael.com/relative-of-freed-captives-say-hamas-branded-child-hostages-in-case-they-escaped/

 

Released From Hamas Captivity, Thai Nationals Struggle to Process the Trauma

https://www.msn.com/he-il/news/other/released-from-hamas-captivity-thai-nationals-struggle-to-process-the-trauma/ar-AA1kK1Q2

 

And these were the children, women and non-Israelis. I would guess that the men taken hostage face harsher conditions.

 

 

 

[metisdead]

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The War in Israel

Latest developments and discussion of events in the Israel-Hamas War. Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source.

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

What I'm saying about "fact" is just because you read it on CNN or FOX doesn't make it a fact. As you admitted, these outlets are biased and present different versions of the "facts."

The two you mention are the most biased in the world.

The best, factual outlet in the ME is Al Jazeera.

[Danderman123]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The US is the only one who can stop this war, yes it's in the ME but the US control everything about it, in fact caused it by their support of Aparheid in Israel

Even if Israel agreed to a 2 state solution  Hamas' charter commits Hamas to the destruction of Israel.

 

So, the Hamas baby killing on October 7 had nothing to do with Israel's occupation of the West Bank. Which means that Israel has 2 options:

 

Stop fighting, and endure endless Hamas attacks  or

 

Eliminate Hamas.

 

If you were in charge in Israel, which option would you choose?

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Morch, No, I'm not saying opinion and fact are on equal footing.

What I'm saying about "fact" is just because you read it on CNN or FOX doesn't make it a fact. As you admitted, these outlets are biased and present different versions of the "facts."

What I'm saying about "opinion" is that most everyone has their own opinion of things. And it is that opinion that I am interested in. I might not agree with it and respond with my own opinion, but that's what I think discussions are all about.

 

I have not even referenced the news outlets you mentioned, so obviously also did not 'admit' to what you claim. There are a whole lot of media outlets, venues, reporters etc. out there. Some better than others, some better on certain issues/topic and less so on others. Also quite a lot of international and regional sources.

 

Opinions which are grounded in fact and reality are mostly acceptable and can be discussed. Then there's a whole lot of nonsense spewed on these topics which isn't. Not to mention the usual ongoing trolling some engage in.

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The two you mention are the most biased in the world.

The best, factual outlet in the ME is Al Jazeera.

One of those opinions that lacks any basis in reality, worthless and pure misinformation.

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

I hear you, I immediately ignored them after I was called a Hamas supporter. These people ruin healthy discussion. They are probably still claiming Israel doesn't have Apartheid and are justified in killing all Gazan children. 

 

 

Have you both got to the stage where you have so many members on ignore that the only person you can converse with is @thaibeachlovers and vice versa? 

[Danderman123]

I noticed an El Al plane at Suvarnabhumi, which indicated that TLV is open.

 

If Hamas were regularly sending rockets at TLV, it would have to close again. But the media does not consistently report rocket activity in Gaza.

[Neeranam]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Even if Israel agreed to a 2 state solution  Hamas' charter commits Hamas to the destruction of Israel.

 

So, the Hamas baby killing on October 7 had nothing to do with Israel's occupation of the West Bank. Which means that Israel has 2 options:

 

Stop fighting, and endure endless Hamas attacks  or

 

Eliminate Hamas.

 

If you were in charge in Israel, which option would you choose?

The Hamas terrorist attack was a direct result of the continual oppression of Palestinians in Israel, including Apartheid.

I agree with eliminate Hamas, but not by killing all 100 children a day over more than a month!!

 

If I were the head of Israel, I'd stop Apartheid and promote equality and peace. 

 

[Neeranam]

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@Neeranam

 

More of your nonsense.

Hamas can stop this at any time. Not too hard to figure that out.

 

More of your nonsense.

Israel could treat Palestinians equally in Israel and this would stop all this. They could make it illegal to discriminate against them for starters.

[Morch]

Just now, Danderman123 said:

I noticed an El Al plane at Suvarnabhumi, which indicated that TLV is open.

 

If Hamas were regularly sending rockets at TLV, it would have to close again. But the media does not consistently report rocket activity in Gaza.

 

They launch rockets, not necessarily at TLV, and obviously capabilities degraded some since 7/10. The airport would have more than the usual coverage of air defenses. For consistent reports on rockets launches you'll need to rely on Israel/Palestinian media/social media, no one else covers each and every launch, hit, intercepted rockets, drones, false alarms and so on.

[Rimmer]

Unattributed posts and replies have been removed.

 

The War in Israel

Latest developments and discussion of events in the Israel-Hamas War. Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source.

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[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The Hamas terrorist attack was a direct result of the continual oppression of Palestinians in Israel, including Apartheid.

I agree with eliminate Hamas, but not by killing all 100 children a day over more than a month!!

 

If I were the head of Israel, I'd stop Apartheid and promote equality and peace. 

 

 

@Neeranam

 

What you claim got little to do with the topic, or with Hamas leaders' comments on the attack and the motivations.

When you come up with a way to 'eliminate' Hamas without incurring civilian casualties, you might have a point.

As for what you would do - more nonsense from someone who obviously lacks any in-depth knowledge of related things.

Yeah, sure....most countries when faced with a massive terrorist attack go out of their way to appease terrorists.

For someone claiming to be a Thai national, you don't seem very upset about Thais being killed, abducted and and displaced by the Hamas attack.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

More of your nonsense.

Israel could treat Palestinians equally in Israel and this would stop all this. They could make it illegal to discriminate against them for starters.

 

@Neeranam

 

Hamas does not seek 'equal rights'. It's aim is to destroy Israel.

Other than in your nonsense post, the 7/10 attack was not about conditions within Israel.

Peace requires two parties. You continue to ignore that.

 

[Neeranam]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@Neeranam

 

Hamas does not seek 'equal rights'. It's aim is to destroy Israel.

Other than in your nonsense post, the 7/10 attack was not about conditions within Israel.

Peace requires two parties. You continue to ignore that.

 

Another nonsense post.

Why do you think Hamas was founded?

This is ALL about unfair treatment of Palestinians.

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Another nonsense post.

Why do you think Hamas was founded?

This is ALL about unfair treatment of Palestinians.

 

@Neeranam

 

You seem to make it up as you go along, freely moving the goalposts whenever facts and reality counter your 'views'.

Hamas is not about 'equal rights', nor is it about 'peace'. Hamas does not seek co-existence with Israel.

You tend to lump things together, and to decline any acceptance of Palestinian accountability for anything.

That's not much of a basis for discussion, forming an opinion or negotiation.

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

For someone claiming to be a Thai national, you don't seem very upset about Thais being killed, abducted and and displaced by the Hamas attack.

Sigh, calling me a liar again.

 

So, you are upset as your own people were killed; I can understand that and offer my condolences, but try to look at the larger picture as you are biased.

 

 

[Morch]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Sigh, calling me a liar again.

 

So, you are upset as your own people were killed; I can understand that and offer my condolences, but try to look at the larger picture as you are biased.

 

 

 

@Neeranam

 

I did not call you a 'liar'. That's you lying again.

The second line is just another of your no-value comments.

As for 'larger picture' - considering you insist on seeing things one way only, and rely on one biased news source only - that's not much of comment either.

[Neeranam]

20 minutes ago, Morch said:

For someone claiming to be a Thai national

 

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

I did not call you a 'liar'. That's you lying again.

You continually call me a liar and when asked what I lie about, you never answer. 

 

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

As for 'larger picture' - considering you insist on seeing things one way only, and rely on one biased news source only - that's not much of comment either.

What TV news do you watch?

[Morch]

Just now, Neeranam said:

 

You continually call me a liar and when asked what I lie about, you never answer. 

 

 

@Neeranam

 

You claimed I called you a liar. I did not. Hence, you lied about me calling you a liar.

Not complicated.

[Wobblybob]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

 

You continually call me a liar and when asked what I lie about, you never answer. 

 

You said that Israel is committing genocide and that is a lie!

[novacova]

“US SAYS IT WILL BACK ISRAEL MILITARILY WHEN FIGHTING RESUMES

Blinken said to warn war cabinet Israel may not have months to topple Hamas

US diplomat says Israel must change way it is fighting, set up safe zones, avoid hospitals, UN facilities: ‘Massive loss of civilian life’ in north Gaza must not be repeated in south.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken warned Israel’s war cabinet on Thursday that it likely doesn’t have months to wage war against Hamas in Gaza, as domestic and international pressure mounts on US President Joe Biden’s administration to draw an end to the fighting, an Israeli official said.“

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/blinken-said-to-warn-war-cabinet-it-may-not-have-months-to-topple-hamas/

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

What TV news do you watch?

 

How is that relevant? I've already mentioned I watch/read/follow many different ones. Including ones I consider unreliable, dodgy and so on - just to get a clue of what's being reported, and how people form daft opinions. What matters, for the purposes of these topics and 'discussions' is what I base my comments and posts here on. I'm not here to convince you to watch this or that channel, read this or that newspaper, follow this or that social media account.

[Danderman123]

40 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The Hamas terrorist attack was a direct result of the continual oppression of Palestinians in Israel, including Apartheid.

I agree with eliminate Hamas, but not by killing all 100 children a day over more than a month!!

 

If I were the head of Israel, I'd stop Apartheid and promote equality and peace. 

 

If you knew of a way to eliminate Hamas without so much collateral damage, IDF would be all ears.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

What lies? Here we go again. Maybe answer me this time.

You are wasting your time. Many times I've asked for such but never receive a reply.