Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Danny Australia]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

They found enough, and there are supporting evidence from foreign doctors/staff who worked there to confirm things. Considering Israel announced intentions to take the hospital beforehand, not sure why you'd expect Hamas to stick around or leave plenty of evidence behind. Then again, I'm not the one glued to AJ.....

 

Absolutely, they found enough evidence of the command centre under the hospital, especially calendar of the week in Arabic which made the Israeli spokesman and Israeli army the joke of the planet :) 

 

Ex Prime Minister Ehud Barak admitted the tunnel under the hospital was not a secret as it was built as an extra space for the hospital's daily operation by Israel itself, when it was the occupying force,   

[Danny Australia]

 

Family says Yuval Castleman, killed after taking out terrorists, was 'executed' | The Times of Israel

 

The guy who shot dead the two attackers in Jerusalem few days ago was then shot dead in a friendly fire by two Israeli soldiers.

 

Footage from the scene showed Castleman throw away his gun, fall on his knees and raise his hands in the air while shouting “Don’t shoot” as the soldiers approached him. He was then shot again by one of them. The soldiers thought he was a Palestinian.

 

It seems there is a clear policy here, unarmed Palestinians who poses no threat at all can be executed on the spot. If not a war crime, it's for sure textbook extrajudicial execution.

[Morch]

43 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

Family says Yuval Castleman, killed after taking out terrorists, was 'executed' | The Times of Israel

 

The guy who shot dead the two attackers in Jerusalem few days ago was then shot dead in a friendly fire by two Israeli soldiers.

 

Footage from the scene showed Castleman throw away his gun, fall on his knees and raise his hands in the air while shouting “Don’t shoot” as the soldiers approached him. He was then shot again by one of them. The soldiers thought he was a Palestinian.

 

It seems there is a clear policy here, unarmed Palestinians who poses no threat at all can be executed on the spot. If not a war crime, it's for sure textbook extrajudicial execution.

 

I don't know how you mean 'policy' considering there's a rather large scale investigation (three different agencies, not the norm) of the shooting. What it does highlight, is that under the current extreme right-wing Internal Security Minister there a sense of breakdown in discipline from supporters (in uniform or otherwise), and that maybe his new scheme of guns for everyone (a major shift in policy) is indeed a bad idea.

[Morch]

57 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

Absolutely, they found enough evidence of the command centre under the hospital, especially calendar of the week in Arabic which made the Israeli spokesman and Israeli army the joke of the planet :) 

 

Ex Prime Minister Ehud Barak admitted the tunnel under the hospital was not a secret as it was built as an extra space for the hospital's daily operation by Israel itself, when it was the occupying force,   

 

Admitted how? As I understand it he simply confirmed that there was a tunnel built when the hospital was under construction. That was then, and if you imagine Hamas did not expand it etc. over the years, that's your choice. As for what was found - more than what you mention (as you're probably aware), and not surprising given the time Hamas was given to clear out. There are testimonies of foreign staff who worked that support Israel's claims.

[Danny Australia]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I don't know how you mean 'policy' considering there's a rather large scale investigation (three different agencies, not the norm) of the shooting. What it does highlight, is that under the current extreme right-wing Internal Security Minister there a sense of breakdown in discipline from supporters (in uniform or otherwise), and that maybe his new scheme of guns for everyone (a major shift in policy) is indeed a bad idea.

 

You missing the point. Three different agencies are involved in this particular case because the victim is an Israeli. There would have been zero investigation if the shot person was a Palestinian. 

So the point is unarmed person who poses no threat can be executed easily. Nothing to do with the new scheme of guns handout as the shooters are experienced Golani unit soldiers-not amateurs. 

 

And yes, executing unarmed Palestinians is a policy and you know it. Happy to provide you with infinite number of such cases. The two children aged 8 and 12 were shot dead by snipers few days ago is the latest example, execution was caught on camera. No investigations there because they were Palestinian kids, now imagine if they were Israeli kids. 

[Danny Australia]

25 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 There are testimonies of foreign staff who worked that support Israel's claims.

Would you care to provide a link with a credible source (uncredible source is fine in this case).

 

Testimonies from foreign staff would have prompted Biden personally to repeat it in a press conference.

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

You missing the point. Three different agencies are involved in this particular case because the victim is an Israeli. There would have been zero investigation if the shot person was a Palestinian. 

So the point is unarmed person who poses no threat can be executed easily. Nothing to do with the new scheme of guns handout as the shooters are experienced Golani unit soldiers-not amateurs. 

 

And yes, executing unarmed Palestinians is a policy and you know it. Happy to provide you with infinite number of such cases. The two children aged 8 and 12 were shot dead by snipers few days ago is the latest example, execution was caught on camera. No investigations there because they were Palestinian kids, now imagine if they were Israeli kids. 

 

I'm not denying that there are many unnecessary killings of Palestinian in the West Bank. You claim it's a policy, I think it's more a case of no policy. There were two reserve soldiers involved, and the one identified as the shooter, based on interviews and details in Israeli media - is exactly among the extreme religious right voter base.

 

I think it's worth pointing out that you do not seem as interested in the other Israeli civilians murdered, guess not as important for pushing your agenda.

[Morch]

25 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

Would you care to provide a link with a credible source (uncredible source is fine in this case).

 

Testimonies from foreign staff would have prompted Biden personally to repeat it in a press conference.

 

Already previously linked on one of these topics. I don't know which press conference you refer to, so no idea which came first. To be clear, these were testimonies about Hamas presence and usage of the hospital - not that they were anywhere near the areas where Hamas operated in the building, quite the opposite. Spin it as much as you like, Hamas presence in and usage of the hospital were facts.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, James105 said:

it's not Isreals fault that terrorists invaded their land, raped their women, killed their children and took innocent civilians as hostages.... it is the terrorists.   If you are looking to apportion blame for the atrocities committed, then you need look no further than the terrorist organisation Hamas.

It's not Palestinians fault that israeli settlers invade their land ( in the West Bank ) attack Palestinians, and arrest children for posting on social media..... it is the israeli settlers with israeli military support.  If you are looking to apportion blame for the atrocities committed, then you need look no further than the land theft and oppression by israelis.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not Palestinians fault that israeli settlers invade their land ( in the West Bank ) attack Palestinians, and arrest children for posting on social media..... it is the israeli settlers with israeli military support.  If you are looking to apportion blame for the atrocities committed, then you need look no further than the land theft and oppression by israelis.

Disgusting! You're making excuses for the atrocities of October 7.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

Would you care to provide a link with a credible source (uncredible source is fine in this case).

 

Testimonies from foreign staff would have prompted Biden personally to repeat it in a press conference.

I saw testimonies on Al Jazeera from foreign foreign staff that worked at the hospital that said they had not seen any Hamas activity in the hospital. It was a while back now, so I don't remember their names, but they are on the record.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, James105 said:

 

Raping innocent women?  Killing children?  Taking grandmothers and kids hostage?   You support these kind of atrocities? 

There you go again. Trying ( and failing ) to make the case that opposing israeli activities in the conflict is the same as supporting " Raping innocent women?  Killing children?  Taking grandmothers and kids hostage?"

 

If killing about a thousand israelis is an atrocity, what is killing over 11 thousand Palestinians, mostly women and children that were not in the attack on October 7?

source https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/gaza-rising-death-toll-civilians/

[metisdead]

A post with a link to a paywall site contravening our Community Standards has been removed.  

[Eloquent pilgrim]

 

This is a very difficult read for anyone with just a single grain of humanity, although I know a few Hamas apologists on here won’t read it. The UN once again proving its worthlessness 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/78d415db-37e9-4845-82b3-a1c96094ce79?shareToken=09db0bc3c79f474cf6ca03e98dd6da0b

Edited December 3, 2023 by Eloquent pilgrim
typo

[Bkk Brian]

8 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

 

Absolutely, they found enough evidence of the command centre under the hospital, especially calendar of the week in Arabic which made the Israeli spokesman and Israeli army the joke of the planet :) 

 

Ex Prime Minister Ehud Barak admitted the tunnel under the hospital was not a secret as it was built as an extra space for the hospital's daily operation by Israel itself, when it was the occupying force,   

Even if that was true, if your going to believe the words of Barak on a single interview on CNN then don't just cherry pick, include the context where he is clearly saying it was used as a command center along with similar tunnels under other hospitals.

 

Lets not forget, this particular tunnel was only found after the IDF blew up a booby trapped truck that was in Shifa hospital car park and under the truck the tunnel entrance was found.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

 

If killing about a thousand israelis is an atrocity, what is killing over 11 thousand Palestinians, mostly women and children that were not in the attack on October 7?

source https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/gaza-rising-death-toll-civilians/

During WWII, in response to the London Blitz, the Allies conducted a bombing campaign that killed huge numbers of German civilians.

 

Do you believe that the Allied bombing of Nazi Germany was immoral? I maintain that it was morally equivalent to Israel bombing of Gaza.

 

Until and unless you address the morality of Allied bombing of Germany, I will assume that you are a Hamas apologist.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

35 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is a very difficult read for anyone with just a single grain of humanity, although I know a few Hamas apologists on here won’t read it. The UN once again proving its worthlessness 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/78d415db-37e9-4845-82b3-a1c96094ce79?shareToken=09db0bc3c79f474cf6ca03e98dd6da0b

If anyone finds a paywall on that here is the link for a non paywall read https://archive.ph/g4UpZ

 

Another similar article on the rapes here:

 

Harrowing stories had begun emerging within days from the desert rave where traumatised young women, who survived only by hiding from the gunmen, described watching in silent horror as other women were gang raped, mutilated and shot. Israeli women’s rights groups, worried that chances to collect forensic evidence were missed in the initial chaos of a country under attack, swiftly mobilised – and last week, Dr Cochav Elkayam-Levy, the lawyer chairing a civil commission hastily created to document crimes against women and children during the massacre, flew to meet UN officials to discuss the testimony collated. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians

[Bkk Brian]

Its well known that the medical staff at Shifa hospital including doctors were complicit in keeping quiet about the Hamas tunnels and presence of terrorists within the hospital. Here's another surgeon who was used by the BBC and other media outlets for daily death counts in Gaza. 

 

My opinion is that no civilian in Gaza can be trusted until they can as most seem to support the terrorists. (that does not mean I want them all dead for the trolls)

 

Gaza surgeon used as pundit by BBC, Sky and CNN wept as he praised terror leader

A British-Palestinian surgeon used as a pundit by the BBC, Sky and CNN wept as he eulogised a founder of a terrorist group that later participated in the October 7 attacks, saying even after his death “the Israelis will still be afraid”, the JC can reveal.

While working in Gaza following the October 7 attack, Dr Ghassan Abu-Sittah – who has been named by the BBC as a “key” source of the death count in the Strip – gave interviews to media outlets across the world in which he accused the IDF of using white phosphorus and targeting hospitals, claims Israel strongly denies.

https://www.thejc.com/news/gaza-surgeon-used-as-pundit-by-bbc-sky-and-cnn-wept-as-he-praised-terror-leader-eo6hdpb2

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Not that this is going to go anywhere soon, here are some pics from the ICC cheif prosecutor in Israel yesterday, he also went to the West Bank to meet Palestinian officials.

 

https://twitter.com/IntlCrimCourt/status/1731099772444909587

 

[Jeff the Chef]

58 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Even if that was true, if your going to believe the words of Barak on a single interview on CNN then don't just cherry pick, include the context where he is clearly saying it was used as a command center along with similar tunnels under other hospitals.

 

Lets not forget, this particular tunnel was only found after the IDF blew up a booby trapped truck that was in Shifa hospital car park and under the truck the tunnel entrance was found.

 Ehud Barak interview:

 

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

During WWII, in response to the London Blitz, the Allies conducted a bombing campaign that killed huge numbers of German civilians.

 

Do you believe that the Allied bombing of Nazi Germany was immoral? I maintain that it was morally equivalent to Israel bombing of Gaza.

 

Until and unless you address the morality of Allied bombing of Germany, I will assume that you are a Hamas apologist.

 

 

The Cambridge English Dictionary defines the word 'assumption' as something that you accept as true without question or proof. Which basically means that when we assume something we are lying to ourselves.

[Jeff the Chef]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Even if that was true, if your going to believe the words of Barak on a single interview on CNN then don't just cherry pick, include the context where he is clearly saying it was used as a command center along with similar tunnels under other hospitals.

 

Lets not forget, this particular tunnel was only found after the IDF blew up a booby trapped truck that was in Shifa hospital car park and under the truck the tunnel entrance was found.

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 Ehud Barak interview:

 

 

 

Ys I have seen it, that's why I could make the comments I did that it was taken completely out of context.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/barak-causes-storm-by-telling-cnn-israel-helped-build-some-spaces-beneath-shifa/

 

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ys I have seen it, that's why I could make the comments I did that it was taken completely out of context.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/barak-causes-storm-by-telling-cnn-israel-helped-build-some-spaces-beneath-shifa/

 

Explain "completely out of context" he said it, even the interviewer was shocked.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Jeff the Chef said:

Explain "completely out of context" he said it, even the interviewer was shocked.

When a poster fails to add the context that it WAS used as a command center as explained by Barack, whether he was telling the truth or not, got it, that was in my response in the first place.

[James105]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There you go again. Trying ( and failing ) to make the case that opposing israeli activities in the conflict is the same as supporting " Raping innocent women?  Killing children?  Taking grandmothers and kids hostage?"

 

If killing about a thousand israelis is an atrocity, what is killing over 11 thousand Palestinians, mostly women and children that were not in the attack on October 7?

source https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2023/gaza-rising-death-toll-civilians/

 

You need an asterix on this line:

 

what is killing over 11 thousand Palestinians*

 

*figures provided by murderous lying rapists also known as Hamas

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by James105

[Morch]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not Palestinians fault that israeli settlers invade their land ( in the West Bank ) attack Palestinians, and arrest children for posting on social media..... it is the israeli settlers with israeli military support.  If you are looking to apportion blame for the atrocities committed, then you need look no further than the land theft and oppression by israelis.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

How is it not the Palestinians' fault? The Palestinians' predicament originated from rejecting the partition plan, and adhering to this rejectionist stance for decades. By the time they (sort of) came to their senses, things already shifted some.

 

Always amusing to see you make excuses for Hamas terrorist attacks, especially the 7/10 vileness - then whine when labeled Hamas supporter.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Morch

[Morch]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I saw testimonies on Al Jazeera from foreign foreign staff that worked at the hospital that said they had not seen any Hamas activity in the hospital. It was a while back now, so I don't remember their names, but they are on the record.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

The difference between your trolling and what I posted is that while you often skip providing links and support to your comments, I usually do. Given the pace of events, and the number of posts - it's not reasonable, IMO, to require posting links long after events took place and issued discussed. Not very reasonable to rehash things in detail for the benefit of late-arrivals. All the more so when posters involved are not in the habit of providing acceptable support for their comments.

 

Considering you have many people with differing views on 'ignore', and assuming you do not pick - then it is perfectly possible you'll miss a whole lot of posts, and therefore links provided. There's probably a similar price for living in an exclusively-AJ-supplied-news bubble, as well. 

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I saw testimonies on Al Jazeera from foreign foreign staff that worked at the hospital that said they had not seen any Hamas activity in the hospital. It was a while back now, so I don't remember their names, but they are on the record.

Hospital security video proves these doctors wrong:

 

https://youtu.be/7AVT7j7u0vU?feature=shared

[Neeranam]

20 hours ago, James105 said:

It's not Isreals fault that terrorists invaded their land

So they do it just totally out of the blue, Israel have nothing at all cause it? That's a strange thing to do, isn't it?

So said terrorists also invade their other neighbours?