Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Morch]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

How is it a 'blocked' when hundreds of thousands of Gazan are working and living in Israel as part of their employments and are free go come and go as their wish? and again, free to travel to any country they wish by air or border crossing to Egypt, (with the Hamas leadership living the life of luxury in 5 stars hotel in some of the gulf states) and if you say blocked, where have all those hundreds tones of weapons and immunisations came from?

And talking about international humanitarian laws, where were those laws when babies were beheaded and murdered and women rapped, home burned and looted and many were kidnapped? ...

 

There weren't 'hundreds of thousands' Gazans working in Israel, but tens of thousands. And they were not 'free to come and go as they wish'.'

Passage to Egypt was (and is) strictly regulated by Egyptian authorities, so no such freedom on offer either.

 

The blockade was not quite what the Israel Bad Brigade paints it to be, but here's no call for underestimating its effect on Gazans.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Morch

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

How is it a 'blocked' when hundreds of thousands of Gazan are working and living in Israel as part of their employments and are free go come and go as their wish? and again, free to travel to any country they wish by air or border crossing to Egypt, (with the Hamas leadership living the life of luxury in 5 stars hotel in some of the gulf states) and if you say blocked, where have all those hundreds tones of weapons and immunisations came from?

And talking about international humanitarian laws, where were those laws when babies were beheaded and murdered and women rapped, home burned and looted and many were kidnapped? ...

I don't see anything equating to reality in that post, so I'll just ask you if it's OK to kill 7,000 children by bombing their homes?

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't see anything equating to reality in that post, so I'll just ask you if it's OK to kill 7,000 children by bombing their homes?

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

That's because you're either clueless or biased. Probably both.

 

Gazans were working in Israel. Fact.

Gazans that were able to cross to Egypt could travel abroad. Fact.

Hamas leaders living in luxury in the Gulf. Fact.

Hamas smuggling in arms, gear, materials and whatnot. Fact.

Hamas violating a whole lot of 'international humanitarian' laws on 7/10. Fact.

[rabas]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

22 hours ago, Neeranam said:

B izarre

and pathetic. Does he think the bombs that kill them were dropped by Hamas?

 

You do know you are responding to a post whose author completely removed my full discussion and reasoning, leaving only a phrase that depends solely on the removed content. 

 

This is a good example how simplistic propaganda (out of context sound bite) can lead others, here you, to spread misinformation.  

 

Though honestly, yours also looks a bit like a simplest sound bite. 

[Neeranam]

From CBC news.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Hamas killing its own Gazans

 

WATCH: Hamas violently seize a humanitarian aid convoy and shoot civilians on their way. 
 Gaza deserves better.

#FreeGaza from Hamas

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Neeranam said:

From CBC news.

 

 

From the BBC.....................

 

 

Mark Regev - a senior adviser to the Israeli prime minister - has rejected comments made by US President Joe Biden that Israel is "indiscriminately bombing" parts of Gaza.

On Tuesday, Biden told a closed-door fundraising event that Israel was losing international support as a result.

Speaking to the BBC, Regev says the assertion is "not true".

He adds that, at a meeting earlier today, the Israeli military showed the US its "rigorous process" of selecting targets.

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Do any here think that Israel are NOT committing war crimes?

If so, I say you are deluded. The President of the US of A, who obviously supports Israel's war  on  of terror, said he is not happy with their 'indisciminate bombing'.

Indiscriminate bombing is considered a violation of international humanitarian law and isclassified as a war crime.

@Morch I'd like to hear you answer.

 

For each bombing raid the Palestians are losing 0.77 loss of life, and the Israelis need applauding in their meticulous care of limiting Palestian casualties as much as they can, if only Hamas cared as much of their civilians as the Israelis do, there would be even less casualties.

[Jingthing]

Israel should not be immune to criticism for how they are carrying out this war.

On the other hand, I detect a double standard where Israel is judged differently than other countries regarding their right to exist and defend themselves, and I do think that the root of that comes from Jew-hatred.

No anti-Zionism isn't always Jew-hatred, but often it is (case by case). 

Has Israel committed war crimes in this current conflict?

Unfortunately, I assume that they have.

But what about genocide? Nope.  

Edited December 15, 2023 by Jingthing

[Neeranam]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

There weren't 'hundreds of thousands' Gazans working in Israel, but tens of thousands. And they were not 'free to come and go as they wish'.'

Do they have passports? 

[Neeranam]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Israel should not be immune to criticism for how they are carrying out this war.

On the other hand, I detect a double standard where Israel is judged differently than other countries regarding their right to exist and defend themselves, and I do think that the root of that comes from Jew-hatred.

No anti-Zionism isn't always Jew-hatred, but often it is (case by case). 

Has Israel committed war crimes in this current conflict?

Unfortunately, I assume that they have.

But what about genocide? Nope.  

Good post. 

Do people hate Israel because of their religion or because of their politics? 

Maybe they bring it upon themselves by the Apartheid in the country, so the country is thought of as all being Jewish. 

They should, for a start, allow non Jews to become citizens as easilt as Jews. 

[ozimoron]

17 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

The only inconvenient truth in that post of yours is that you again have not read the topics on this war and instead spew out unsubstantiated claims and worthless opinions. Much like your own lame comparisons to the hostages Hamas is holding and the prisoners Israel is holding. Or your unsubstantiated claims that Israeli war crimes are happening each day. Or even your claim that "every able bodied person actively assists or fights for them." [Hamas] in Gaza or 100% of Gazans support Hamas.

 

You've also not read any of the posts on here that displayed sheer anti-Semitism in the extreme, posters claiming that Oct the 7th was all a conspiracy theory and it was really Israel that killed most people. Or posters laughing at the rapes and torture of the Israeli women. You've also not read and other posters insisting on calling Hamas freedom fighters rather than what they are. Terrorists. 

 

Nah your claim

 

"Some people have a problem here with accepting that almost all, if not all, Israeli critics here also condemn Hamas. It's one of those inconvenient truths apparently"

 

Maybe true for some but certainly not all

 

I can't speak for what others post. I haven't seen ONE Israel apologist here concede any fault on the part of Israel.

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I can't speak for what others post. I haven't seen ONE Israel apologist here concede any fault on the part of Israel.

 

 

Here is what you actually posted:

 

Quote

No, and nor did Hamas. Some people have a problem here with accepting that almost all, if not all, Israeli critics here also condemn Hamas. It's one of those inconvenient truths apparently.

 

Seems like speaking for what others post, even without bothering to read the topics and the posts.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

 

Here is what you actually posted:

 

 

Seems like speaking for what others post, even without bothering to read the topics and the posts.

 

I've not seen anyone here support Hamas actions on Oct 7th.

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I've not seen anyone here support Hamas actions on Oct 7th.

 

You claimed you cannot comment on what others posted - when in fact you did.

 

We've already established that you do not read topics you comment on.

 

Given that you do not read topics, what you've 'not seen' doesn't mean a whole lot.

[anotherexpat4444]

Ghaza is a breeding ground of terrorist .  it is so depressing to  see these non-islamic people rallying all over america in support of palestine . 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, rabas said:

 

You do know you are responding to a post whose author completely removed my full discussion and reasoning, leaving only a phrase that depends solely on the removed content. 

 

This is a good example how simplistic propaganda (out of context sound bite) can lead others, here you, to spread misinformation.  

 

Though honestly, yours also looks a bit like a simplest sound bite. 

Far as I can tell the post he responded to was when you said, in full

 

"As to why certain things are the way they are:

 

The IDF said the Hamas terror group has fired at least 116 rockets from the recently designated  al-Mawasi “humanitarian zone” in southern Gaza toward Israel. [ref]   MAP

 

38 of the projectiles fell short into the Strip.

 

Not to mention frequent robberies of humanitarian goods from Gaza citizens."

 

and I can't see anything in that that would be anything other than excusing the israeli assault on Gaza which has killed many thousands of non Hamas people, including over 7,000 children.

 

If I have got the wrong post, or misunderstood it, apologies.

[Jingthing]

The Jewish people are indigenous to Israel.

Your Irish comparison though popular is without merit.

People seem to incorrectly and bizarrely project what they know in their own culture upon the conflict.

Human nature but terribly flawed.

The conflict is very unique.

As far as apartheid Israel is in no way an apartheid state within their borders.

The situation in the West Bank of course is much different and quite horrible.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, anotherexpat4444 said:

Ghaza is a breeding ground of terrorist .  it is so depressing to  see these non-islamic people rallying all over america in support of palestine . 

For the most part they're just stupid especially the Jew hating River to the sea genocide chanting "elite" college students.

[anotherexpat4444]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't see anything equating to reality in that post, so I'll just ask you if it's OK to kill 7,000 children by bombing their homes?

why the world  feel so sympathetic .  While the people of gaza produce kids for killing Jews .  they groom them from childhood to kill Jew . they are   all snakes small or big doesn't matter .

[Bkk Brian]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

I can't speak for what others post. I haven't seen ONE Israel apologist here concede any fault on the part of Israel.

 

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

I've not seen anyone here support Hamas actions on Oct 7th.

Considering you don't read the whole topic except dive in and out making bizarre claims and opinions then look for low hanging fruit so you can pounce and ask for a link let alone the numerous other parallels topics that does not exactly mean much to me.

[Neeranam]

So why are Israel shooting unarmed civilians (hostages) in Gaza?

3 hostages have just been killed.

If they are firing hails of bullets, indiscriminately, like the bombs, this was bound to happen. 

 

[coolcarer]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So why are Israel shooting unarmed civilians (hostages) in Gaza?

3 hostages have just been killed.

If they are firing hails of bullets, indiscriminately, like the bombs, this was bound to happen. 

 

You never heard of friendly fire? Tragic but happens in all wars, especially close quarter urban fighting. 

[bannork]

Hostages were carrying white flag on a stick when Israeli troops mistakenly shot them dead in Gaza, IDF says - CBS News

[bannork]

Israeli troops beating up a journalist. They're no better than Hamas.

 

 

[Neeranam]

20 hours ago, Jingthing said:

As far as apartheid Israel is in no way an apartheid state within their borders.

https://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/8/noam_chomsky_what_israel_is_doing

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

Israeli troops beating up a journalist. They're no better than Hamas.

 

 

This is shocking. 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 hours ago, bannork said:

Israeli troops beating up a journalist. They're no better than Hamas.

 

 

  Hamas did a lot worse than beating people up 

[Jingthing]

Bottom line now is the Palestinians need to do themselves and everyone else a favor and face reality. Forget River to the sea. Israel isn't going anywhere.

 

 

[bannork]

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

  Hamas did a lot worse than beating people up 

And Israel have done a lot worse at killing civilians including women and children.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/