Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)

[Nick Carter icp]

3 hours ago, mikebike said:

Right. Ignore the previous 55+ years 🥺

 

   I've had this exchange a few times before . 

This war started on October 7 th , there were previous wars and conflicts though .

Hams attacking Israel on October 7 th was a declaration of war, Israel confirmed it the next day 

Hostilities began 1300 years ago when Arabs began grabbing Jewish land and settling on it and before that when Romans expelled Jews from the land .

    But this latest war began on October 7 th 

 

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   I've had this exchange a few times before . 

This war started on October 7 th , there were previous wars and conflicts though .

Hams attacking Israel on October 7 th was a declaration of war, Israel confirmed it the next day 

Hostilities began 1300 years ago when Arabs began grabbing Jewish land and settling on it and before that when Romans expelled Jews from the land .

    But this latest war began on October 7 th 

 

 

Eh?

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Why? You post a decisive comment, as if you have some relevant knowledge, as if you're an expert, as if it's fact - why shouldn't this be pointed out when it's obviously not the case?

 

Other than that, of course I do not agree. It's nonsense.

 

It should be common sense to anybody. Do you imagine that Israel fighter jets have any issues with dropping bombs on their intended targets, dumb or not?

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   I've had this exchange a few times before . 

This war started on October 7 th , there were previous wars and conflicts though .

Hams attacking Israel on October 7 th was a declaration of war, Israel confirmed it the next day 

Hostilities began 1300 years ago when Arabs began grabbing Jewish land and settling on it and before that when Romans expelled Jews from the land .

    But this latest war began on October 7 th 

 

 

Did the wars between 1948 and October 7 not exist or did they end?

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

It should be common sense to anybody. Do you imagine that Israel fighter jets have any issues with dropping bombs on their intended targets, dumb or not?

 

Again, I don't think you have a clue as to what you're posting about.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Eh?

 

   They look into it more in-depth here .

 

https://besacenter.org/palestinians-settlers-colonialism/

[ozimoron]

49 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

The IDF uses lots of precision targeted weapons.  

 

Precision targeted weapons are not used for carpet bombing. 

 

Please study till you get it all figured out. Little kids know this stuff. My cat would know if I had one. 

 

48 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Less than half apparently. But that's irrelevant, they precisely targeted civilians.

 

46 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Again, this is you making up stuff.

 

41 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Again, I posted this link before but you seem oblivious to its existence by claiming I'm making it up.

 

Now an intelligence report by the United States have revealed that more than half the bombs dropped were ‘dumb bombs’ or untargeted, not precise bombs. 

 

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/israel-s-use-of-untargeted-dumb-bombs-in-palestines-gaza-in-war-against-hamas-exposed-by-us-intelligence-report-11702561031142.html

 

37 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You claimed

 

 

The latter bit is something you have not supported with anything.

 

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It should be common sense to anybody. Do you imagine that Israel fighter jets have any issues with dropping bombs on their intended targets, dumb or not?

 

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Again, I don't think you have a clue as to what you're posting about.

 

 

[rabas]

49 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Less than half apparently. But that's irrelevant, they precisely targeted civilians.

 

Up to 60%, according to your own link. That's a start, at least you are proving yourself wrong. Now to learn you are doing so. 

 

Your whole premise is wrong anyway. Smart pilots use bombsites to drop dumb bombs on targets. That too is not carpet bombing.  The allies bombed sub pens in WW2 using bomb sites.  

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

 

Up to 60%, according to your own link. That's a start, at least you are proving yourself wrong. Now to learn you are doing so. 

 

Your whole premise is wrong anyway. Smart pilots use bombsites to drop dumb bombs on targets. That too is not carpet bombing.  The allies bombed sub pens in WW2 using bomb sites.  

 

I never claimed they didn't use bomb sights. I implied that the bomb sights were a whole lot better now. For a start it's all computer controlled. The pilot doesn't have his thumb on the red button anymore.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

I never claimed they didn't use bomb sights. I implied that the bomb sights were a whole lot better now. For a start it's all computer controlled. The pilot doesn't have his thumb on the red button anymore.

 

The Military Expert Has Spoken Again.

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The Military Expert Has Spoken Again.

 

The Flamer Has Posted Again.

[Morch]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

The Flamer Has Posted Again.

 

Yawn.

Just pointing out the gap between your opinions and reality.

[rabas]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I never claimed they didn't use bomb sights. I implied that the bomb sights were a whole lot better now. For a start it's all computer controlled. The pilot doesn't have his thumb on the red button anymore.

 

Completely disproving your carpet bombing hypothesis. They use 60% smart bombs and sophisticated computerized bombsites with the other bombs. 

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Completely disproving your carpet bombing hypothesis. They use 60% smart bombs and sophisticated computerized bombsites with the other bombs. 

 

How does using smart bombs mean they didn't carpet bomb ? My point is that they were accurate and they still carpet bombed. They accurately carpet bombed. My point in the comment about accuracy was that it was deliberate bombing of civilians and therefore a war crime.

 

Carpet bombing doesn't have to be indiscriminate, it just has to obliterate an area.

Edited December 21, 2023 by ozimoron

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/21/2023 at 12:38 AM, MangoKorat said:

Netanyahu has come very close on several occasions to stating that he wishes to exterminate the entire Palestinian population.

As reported on Al Jazeera, other members of the israeli government have been more forthright in their desire to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/16/israels-evacuation-order-is-nothing-but-cover-for-ethnic-cleansing

Israel’s evacuation order is nothing but cover for ethnic cleansing

 

https://www.newarab.com/news/israels-smotrich-backs-proposal-expel-gaza-residents

Israel's extremist finance minister Bezalel Smotrich said he supported proposals to relocate people from Gaza to other parts of the world, including Europe and North America.

[Bkk Brian]

World Food Programme spokesperson Shaza Moghraby says she never seen anything like the situation in Gaza before. "We cannot wait for famine to be declared before we act," Moghraby says, adding "we need an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, the opening of all border crossings and the resumption of commercial cargo to provide relief, put an end to the suffering and avert the very serious threat of famine."

 

In a Gaza market yesterday:

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As reported on Al Jazeera, other members of the israeli government have been more forthright in their desire to ethnically cleanse the Gaza Strip.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/16/israels-evacuation-order-is-nothing-but-cover-for-ethnic-cleansing

Israel’s evacuation order is nothing but cover for ethnic cleansing

 

https://www.newarab.com/news/israels-smotrich-backs-proposal-expel-gaza-residents

Israel's extremist finance minister Bezalel Smotrich said he supported proposals to relocate people from Gaza to other parts of the world, including Europe and North America.

This will please you @thaibeachlovers Hamas leader thanks New Zealand. How does it feel to be thanked and appreciated by murdering, raping scumbag terrorists? 

 

top Hamas official, who promised to repeat the Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, thanked Canada, Australia and New Zealand on Wednesday for backing the United Nations' ceasefire resolution.

https://themessenger.com/news/hamas-leader-thanks-canada-australia-backing-ceasefire-resolution-israel-war-un

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

The evidence shows Iran’s lead role in October 7

While the US and Europe have remained steadfast in support of Israel since October 7, they have failed to hold the source of terror accountable: the regime in Iran. It is inconceivable that Iran-backed Hamas could conduct a terror attack on such a scale without not just the greenlight of Tehran, but its strategic planning.

Of course, the sympathisers and the sceptics will immediately cry, “There’s no evidence” –conveniently pointing to the Biden administration’s insistence on this. Yet there is undeniable intelligence exposing Tehran’s fingerprints. Whether one acts on intelligence or evidence is a political decision and ultimately goes back to the appetite to act against the Iranian regime – something Washington currently doesn’t want to stomach.

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/the-evidence-shows-irans-lead-role-in-october-7-pgzng3q0

[Bkk Brian]

Interesting stuff from Critical Threats. Goes into lots of details into Hamas's creation, ideologies, goals with certain time frames, leaders, all its different affiliations, the real reason it attacked on 7th Oct etc.

 

 

The Order of Battle of Hamas’ Izz al Din al Qassem Brigades, Part 1: North and Central Gaza

Hamas sees itself in a multi-generational fight against Israel and some other Palestinian groups that will consist of multiple distinct phases.[viii] Hamas sought to undermine secular Palestinian groups in the 1980s and 1990s to Islamicize the Palestinian people as part of the Hamas effort to form an Islamic state.[ix] Hamas then opposed the Oslo Peace Process to prevent Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and the international community from blocking the hypothetical pathway to an Islamic Palestinian state covering the entirety of historic Palestine.[x] Hamas sees control of “some parts” of Palestine as an interim goal prior to the establishment of an Islamic Palestinian state.[xi] The al Qassem Brigades state that they will “tolerate” only a temporary truce and that a permanent truce or recognition of the Israeli state is forbidden.[xii]

Hamas launched the October 7 attacks in this larger context to derail Arab-Israeli normalization efforts, to destabilize Israel, and eventually to destroy it.

https://www.criticalthreats.org/analysis/the-order-of-battle-of-hamas-izz-al-din-al-qassem-brigades-part-1-north-and-central-gaza

Edited December 22, 2023 by Bkk Brian

[Morch]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

How does using smart bombs mean they didn't carpet bomb ? My point is that they were accurate and they still carpet bombed. They accurately carpet bombed. My point in the comment about accuracy was that it was deliberate bombing of civilians and therefore a war crime.

 

Carpet bombing doesn't have to be indiscriminate, it just has to obliterate an area.

 

Originally you argument seemed to be that carpet bombing is essentially indiscriminate bombing. Now you move the goal posts to fit facts.

 

What would be the point of using expensive guided weapons for 'carpet bombing'?

 

If Israel simply wanted to flatten the Gaza Strip and kill as many people as possible it could have simply used dumb bombs, pound the Gaza Strip indiscriminately, and the whole thing would be long over by now. Reports posted early in this topic assessed that the airstrikes on the Gaza Strip represent about 30%-40% of the IAF operating capability. 

 

As said, you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

The evidence shows Iran’s lead role in October 7

While the US and Europe have remained steadfast in support of Israel since October 7, they have failed to hold the source of terror accountable: the regime in Iran. It is inconceivable that Iran-backed Hamas could conduct a terror attack on such a scale without not just the greenlight of Tehran, but its strategic planning.

Of course, the sympathisers and the sceptics will immediately cry, “There’s no evidence” –conveniently pointing to the Biden administration’s insistence on this. Yet there is undeniable intelligence exposing Tehran’s fingerprints. Whether one acts on intelligence or evidence is a political decision and ultimately goes back to the appetite to act against the Iranian regime – something Washington currently doesn’t want to stomach.

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/the-evidence-shows-irans-lead-role-in-october-7-pgzng3q0

 

Unless I missed something, he doesn't actually produce or reveal any new concrete evidence. It's basically a rehash of what's already known. Given his position, leaning and background - nothing out of the ordinary, but also not quite what's claimed. On the contrary, seems like Iran is playing it rather carefully for now, not getting to directly involved.

[ozimoron]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Originally you argument seemed to be that carpet bombing is essentially indiscriminate bombing. Now you move the goal posts to fit facts.

 

What would be the point of using expensive guided weapons for 'carpet bombing'?

 

If Israel simply wanted to flatten the Gaza Strip and kill as many people as possible it could have simply used dumb bombs, pound the Gaza Strip indiscriminately, and the whole thing would be long over by now. Reports posted early in this topic assessed that the airstrikes on the Gaza Strip represent about 30%-40% of the IAF operating capability. 

 

As said, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

You have a really severe reading comprehension problem and an even worse tendency to try to tell everybody what my apparent underlying motives and thinking is. Try reading my posts carefully. You are just flaming at this point.

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

You have a really severe reading comprehension problem and an even worse tendency to try to tell everybody what my apparent underlying motives and thinking is. Try reading my posts carefully. You are just flaming at this point.

 

I have not mentioned any 'underlying motives and thinking', apparent or otherwise. That's something you made up, as you often do.

 

As for the rest of your comment above, you are welcome to either enlighten me or phrase your words in a clearer manner.

 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I have not mentioned any 'underlying motives and thinking', apparent or otherwise. That's something you made up, as you often do.

 

As for the rest of your comment above, you are welcome to either enlighten me or phrase your words in a clearer manner.

 

 

I take great care to phrase my posts clearly and concisely so that no reader should be confused about what I am saying, much less tell me what "I seem" to be saying. Stop talking about me and start talking about what I write.

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I take great care to phrase my posts clearly and concisely so that no reader should be confused about what I am saying, much less tell me what "I seem" to be saying. Stop talking about me and start talking about what I write.

 

You may think you do. In effect, a lot of your comment are unclear, incorrect, include various unfounded assumptions, use terminology in a carefree way and so on. I get it that you have a very good opinion of your posts and posting style - I simply do not agree.

[Wobblybob]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I take great care to phrase my posts clearly and concisely so that no reader should be confused about what I am saying, much less tell me what "I seem" to be saying. Stop talking about me and start talking about what I write.

You wrote "Israel deserves it", you couldn't be more clearer than that!

[ozimoron]

Just now, Wobblybob said:

You wrote "Israel deserves it", you couldn't be more clearer than that!

 

I don't know where I wrote that but Israel deserves condemnation for war crimes and it's leaders deserve to face the ICC. Along with Hamas.

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I don't know where I wrote that but Israel deserves condemnation for war crimes and it's leaders deserve to face the ICC. Along with Hamas.

 

When there will be an ICC investigation into things, and the issue of 'war crimes' decided, then you'll have a point. Until then, your opinion - not fact.

[Wobblybob]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I don't know where I wrote that but Israel deserves condemnation for war crimes and it's leaders deserve to face the ICC. Along with Hamas.

Jeez stop back peddling, you only wrote it 30 minutes ago, let's call it your Gerald Ratner moment eh. 

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I don't know where I wrote that but Israel deserves condemnation for war crimes and it's leaders deserve to face the ICC. Along with Hamas.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1314367-the-children-of-gaza-more-than-7000-killed/page/17/#comment-18569375