UN warns of ‘blatant disregard for basic humanity’ in Gaza warfare

[bradiston]

18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I am from the UK and what Hamas did on 7th Oct makes the IRA pale into insignificance

So if you passed the hat round in a Boston bar collecting for Hamas, you don't think people would oblige? You amaze me. As the old cliché goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Ireland was partitioned. Catholic and Protestant, Jew and Arab. The US, in particular, Bill Clinton, were heavily involved in the Good Friday Agreement. But it seems they can't bring themselves to lift a finger towards solving the Palestine problem. Just tip $4 billion a year into Israel's defense coffers. A bit one sided? I guess not having any Arab ancestry in any recent potus doesn't help their cause.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, bradiston said:

So if you passed the hat round in a Boston bar collecting for Hamas, you don't think people would oblige? You amaze me. As the old cliché goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Ireland was partitioned. Catholic and Protestant, Jew and Arab. The US, in particular, Bill Clinton, were heavily involved in the Good Friday Agreement. But it seems they can't bring themselves to lift a finger towards solving the Palestine problem. Just tip $4 billion a year into Israel's defense coffers. A bit one sided? I guess not having any Arab ancestry in any recent pota doesn't help their cause.

What? This is about Israel and Hamas not the IRA. I could relay a few personal accounts of the IRA incidents including the last major London attacks where tubes and buses were hit. However unlike you I am not going to derail of disrupt the topic at hand.

[bradiston]

29 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What? This is about Israel and Hamas not the IRA. I could relay a few personal accounts of the IRA incidents including the last major London attacks where tubes and buses were hit. However unlike you I am not going to derail of disrupt the topic at hand.

The topic at hand is "'blatant disregard for basic humanity' in Gaza warfare". The article makes it clear this refers to Israel and it's recent (one of many) orders for large sections of Gazans to relocate. I don't see anyone's come close to countering that accusation throughout these 12 pages of comments. Just a lot of "stand up for Israel" comments, and the Arabs had it coming, just desserts, serves them right. The Israelis screwed up. They got caught napping, off guard, whichever way you write it. By all accounts, Hamas went way over the top, and also way past "a basic regard for humanity". But now we're here. Trying to eliminate Hamas at this point without injuring or killing hundreds of civilians and non combatants, is not going to work. The Israelis need to rethink this whole plan, which presumably they hatched given what looked like a golden opportunity. But it's all gone wrong. There are no command centres under hospitals. In fact it's possible there are no Hamas fighters left at all. The bombing is indiscriminate by it's very nature. There are no legitimate targets. Just houses and hospitals. It's a lost cause, Benjamin. See you in court.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

49 minutes ago, bradiston said:

The US, in particular, Bill Clinton, were heavily involved in the Good Friday Agreement. But it seems they can't bring themselves to lift a finger towards solving the Palestine problem.

 

I suppose the Camp David Summit, convened by Clinton in 2000, bringing together Barak and Arafat, is something else, like the appointment of Ali Bahraini to chair the UNHRC, that escaped your attention. Your profound lack of knowledge about issues pertaining to the ME, probably explains why you just post sensationalist slogans, nonsense, and conspiracy theories

 

….. “not having any Arab ancestry in any recent potus doesn’t help their cause”  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Eloquent pilgrim]

13 minutes ago, bradiston said:

By all accounts, Hamas went way over the top, and also way past "a basic regard for humanity". But now we're here.

 

This is a classic disclaimer from an apologist for terrorism … read what you said again, and think about what actually happened on 7th October 2023.

 

 

 

"By all accounts" 

[bradiston]

8 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

I suppose the Camp David Summit, convened by Clinton in 2000, bringing together Barak and Arafat, is something else, like the appointment of Ali Bahraini to chair the UNHRC, that escaped your attention. Your profound lack of knowledge about issues pertaining to the ME, probably explains why you just post sensationalist slogans, nonsense, and conspiracy theories

 

….. “not having any Arab ancestry in any recent potus doesn’t help their cause”  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

23 years ago? And this is the result? Boxxocks to Bahraini. That's already been done to death. Clinton had Irish ancestry, like many US presidents.

[bradiston]

3 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is a classic disclaimer from an apologist for terrorism … read what you said again, and think about what actually happened on 7th October 2023.

 

 

 

"By all accounts" 

There are many. I don't run with any one of them as gospel. Do you?

 

And I suppose anyone not aligned with the Israeli narrative becomes a de facto apologist for terrorism. I see this line of argument a lot. If I'm not with you, ie actively making statements that chime with your beliefs, I am against you. Well yes, you'd be very damned right I'm against you, but not against Israel nor Palestinians. I'm against the kind of bullying that goes on on this forum. You're somehow stupid if you don't see it the way others do.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

6 minutes ago, bradiston said:

23 years ago? And this is the result? Boxxocks to Bahraini. That's already been done to death. Clinton had Irish ancestry, like many US presidents.

 

So, you really didn’t know about the Camp David Summit that Clinton convened in 2000; if you’d known you couldn’t possibly have said

 

“The US, in particular, Bill Clinton, were heavily involved in the Good Friday Agreement. But it seems they can't bring themselves to lift a finger towards solving the Palestine problem”

 

Your lack of knowledge on these issues is breathtaking.

[bradiston]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

So, you really didn’t know about the Camp David Summit that Clinton convened in 2000; if you’d known you couldn’t possibly have said

 

“The US, in particular, Bill Clinton, were heavily involved in the Good Friday Agreement. But it seems they can't bring themselves to lift a finger towards solving the Palestine problem”

 

Your lack of knowledge on these issues is breathtaking.

Oh take a rxxxxxx jump. It was 23 years ago as I've already pointed out. And this form of belittling is called gaslighting. It's reportable but I'm not going to bother.

[bradiston]

13 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

This is a classic disclaimer from an apologist for terrorism … read what you said again, and think about what actually happened on 7th October 2023.

 

 

 

"By all accounts" 

"What actually happened"? Please, no links. "By all accounts" implies a consensus view. Now what's your problem?

[Bkk Brian]

39 minutes ago, bradiston said:

The topic at hand is "'blatant disregard for basic humanity' in Gaza warfare". The article makes it clear this refers to Israel and it's recent (one of many) orders for large sections of Gazans to relocate. I don't see anyone's come close to countering that accusation throughout these 12 pages of comments. Just a lot of "stand up for Israel" comments, and the Arabs had it coming, just desserts, serves them right. The Israelis screwed up. They got caught napping, off guard, whichever way you write it. By all accounts, Hamas went way over the top, and also way past "a basic regard for humanity". But now we're here. Trying to eliminate Hamas at this point without injuring or killing hundreds of civilians and non combatants, is not going to work. The Israelis need to rethink this whole plan, which presumably they hatched given what looked like a golden opportunity. But it's all gone wrong. There are no command centres under hospitals. In fact it's possible there are no Hamas fighters left at all. The bombing is indiscriminate by it's very nature. There are no legitimate targets. Just houses and hospitals. It's a lost cause, Benjamin. See you in court.

On no so not the IRA.......lol

[bradiston]

Latest from Al Jazeera:

 

"'Apocalyptic' scenes in Gaza as Israel intensifies southern offensive" 15 hours ago

 

"UN warns of 'horror' and 'atrocities' as Israel steps up Gaza assault" 1 hour ago

 

"The IHRA definition of ante-Semitism has no place on Australian campuses" 32 minutes ago

 

And so it goes on.

 

I can't post links from Al Jazeera.

[sungod]

27 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Latest from Al Jazeera:

 

"'Apocalyptic' scenes in Gaza as Israel intensifies southern offensive" 15 hours ago

 

"UN warns of 'horror' and 'atrocities' as Israel steps up Gaza assault" 1 hour ago

 

"The IHRA definition of ante-Semitism has no place on Australian campuses" 32 minutes ago

 

And so it goes on.

 

I can't post links from Al Jazeera.

 

I've read all your nonsensical posts and thought I wanted to reply, but there are so many.

 

Easily summed up, terrorist loving scum disgust me.

[bradiston]

42 minutes ago, sungod said:

 

I've read all your nonsensical posts and thought I wanted to reply, but there are so many.

 

Easily summed up, terrorist loving scum disgust me.

You're pathetic

[Morch]

3 hours ago, bradiston said:

In the UK we lived through over 20 years of proper terrorist violence. By the heavily US backed IRA. They bombed buses, trains, parks. What does Hamas do? Lobs a few rockets over occasionally. When they do launch a totally uncharacteristic style of attack, the whole world goes mad, and leaders from the west queue up to hand pat and shake.

 

Now of course they're all grinning sheepishly as the death toll rises. Blinken has announced sanctions against Israeli settlers using violence against Palestinian land owners trying to force them off their land. A complete visa ban.

 

Is the wheel turning? I hope so.

 

In all it's years the IRA killed 1700-1800 people.

Hamas managed 1200 within a day. And as pointed out there's a history of terrorist attacks before that.

Even if you wanted to simply compare the two figures above, consider the effect of this happening in a single day.

Think 9/11.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

The topic at hand is "'blatant disregard for basic humanity' in Gaza warfare". The article makes it clear this refers to Israel and it's recent (one of many) orders for large sections of Gazans to relocate. I don't see anyone's come close to countering that accusation throughout these 12 pages of comments. Just a lot of "stand up for Israel" comments, and the Arabs had it coming, just desserts, serves them right. The Israelis screwed up. They got caught napping, off guard, whichever way you write it. By all accounts, Hamas went way over the top, and also way past "a basic regard for humanity". But now we're here. Trying to eliminate Hamas at this point without injuring or killing hundreds of civilians and non combatants, is not going to work. The Israelis need to rethink this whole plan, which presumably they hatched given what looked like a golden opportunity. But it's all gone wrong. There are no command centres under hospitals. In fact it's possible there are no Hamas fighters left at all. The bombing is indiscriminate by it's very nature. There are no legitimate targets. Just houses and hospitals. It's a lost cause, Benjamin. See you in court.

 

Consider the civilian casualties, consider combatants killed. The ratio is not so different than past operations against the Hamas. And I think maybe the same with regard to operations by other armies around the world under comparable conditions. I would guess some are worse (like those involving Russian forces).

 

War is always ugly, and civilians usually suffer. Not really sure what you suggest as an alternative. Not with regard to the entire conflict, but specifically as to the situation after 7/10.

 

Most of the things you state as facts regarding the operations in the Gaza Strip are not correct - they reflect your opinion, rather than fact and reality.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, ezzra said:

Hamas started something it can't finish, and at what costs? thousands of lives, utter ruins of towns and cities and infrastructure, and the culling of its leadership, is it worth it? Israel will not rest until Hamas and its ilk will be decimated no matter what the costs are...

LOL. "Hamas" may be eliminated, but another organization will take it's place- such is resistance to oppression.

Doesn't have to be in Gaza- plenty of Palestinians live outside Palestine where the israelis can't bomb them to bits. The threats to israelis will go on for as long as the Palestinians in Palestine are oppressed.

 

 

Hamas started something it can't finish, and at what costs?

 

Do you think they thought they could "win"? LOL.

Perhaps they thought it was better to go out with a bang, than to die the death of a thousand cuts under israeli collective punishment and blockade.

Sure got your attention, didn't it?

Before October 7 most of the western world ignored the israeli illegal occupation, illegal settlements, land theft, the blockade on Gaza, collective punishment, murdering teenagers during raids, settler violence, etc. It's not ignoring it any more, is it!

Perhaps the israelis did exactly what Hamas expected them to do.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, sungod said:

 

I've read all your nonsensical posts and thought I wanted to reply, but there are so many.

 

Easily summed up, terrorist loving scum disgust me.

Excellent, well reasoned out response and completely on topic and not in contravention of any forum rules. Well done, and keep 'em coming as we all enjoy your brilliant posts.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

So, you really didn’t know about the Camp David Summit that Clinton convened in 2000; if you’d known you couldn’t possibly have said

 

“The US, in particular, Bill Clinton, were heavily involved in the Good Friday Agreement. But it seems they can't bring themselves to lift a finger towards solving the Palestine problem”

 

Your lack of knowledge on these issues is breathtaking.

All we need to know is that the Camp David and every other American initiative has failed to resolve the situation, and not just failed, but failed abysmally. Had they succeeded the October 7 attack would not have happened.

Now it looks like even the push to by pass Palestinians and normalise relations between Arab states and israel are on hold or ended for good.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, bradiston said:

In fact it's possible there are no Hamas fighters left at all.

Wrong. There are plenty and killing israeli soldiers to boot. Israelis are finding that it's not so easy killing Palestinians when they can shoot back.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-05/ty-article/five-israeli-soldiers-killed-monday-in-gaza-fighting/0000018c-3966-dc03-a9ec-3d7fe0ab0000

Five Israeli Soldiers Killed Monday in Gaza Fighting

[animalmagic]

On 12/5/2023 at 5:57 PM, bradiston said:

Who mentioned the Gaza strip? It's hardly the chosen spot for Israeli settlers, is it?

As part of its 'land for peace' deal Israel forcibly evicted/cleared Jewish settlers from settlements in Gaza.  Gaza was then handed over to the Palestinian Authority; Egypt did not want the Gaza strip back!

The eviction of all residents, demolition of the residential buildings and evacuation of associated security personnel from the Gaza Strip was completed by September 12, 2005. The eviction and dismantlement of the four settlements in the northern West Bank was completed ten days later. Eight thousand Jewish settlers from the 21 settlements in the Gaza Strip were relocated.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

The eviction and dismantlement of the four settlements in the northern West Bank was completed ten days later. Eight thousand Jewish settlers from the 21 settlements in the Gaza Strip were relocated.

More than made up for it in the West Bank since though. Now illegal settlements are springing up like mushrooms in the West Bank.

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Wrong. There are plenty and killing israeli soldiers to boot. Israelis are finding that it's not so easy killing Palestinians when they can shoot back.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-05/ty-article/five-israeli-soldiers-killed-monday-in-gaza-fighting/0000018c-3966-dc03-a9ec-3d7fe0ab0000

Five Israeli Soldiers Killed Monday in Gaza Fighting

@thaibeachlovers you seem positively delighted that there are some IDF soldiers being killed. 

 

How about the 5,000 or more Hamas terrorists killed so far, how does that make you feel? The terrorists are the ones finding it a little harder when they find out IDF shoot back rather than their previous civilian targets.

[WDSmart]

14 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Trolling now, I've already told you what that website promotes and linked it for you, you have now admitted again you are promoting conspiracy theories.

 

"A questionable source exhibits one or more of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency, and/or is fake news."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mondoweiss/

btk, I checked out mediabiasfactcheck on mediabiasfactcheck, and the score was "Least Biased." The results of this site sound a lot like what you, Morch, and Yellowtail think of yourselves. 

[WDSmart]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

No, I post in this manner mainly on stuff I have knowledge about, experienced and so on.

You won't find me having a very strong opinion as to Thailand's tax laws, for example - freely admit my ignorance.

 

I respect your comment this time, but wonder what you meant by "have knowledge about." Isn't your "knowledge about" this subject, Israel/Palestine, based on what you read or hear on the news? And that's the same source as mine.

[WDSmart]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Not all sources are equal.

Not all reports are credible.

 

I agree, but this is what I read from the sources I visit or listen to on my TV (CNN). Also, I don't sit and read and listen to EVERYTHING they say. I just pick up snippets here and there, and that's enough for me to form an opinion and make some speculations. I know NOTHING I see or read can actually be counted on to be the truth, so I have to use my own judgment (not some other online source) on that. That's how I've operated my entire life and I'm not going to change that now. 

[Morch]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. "Hamas" may be eliminated, but another organization will take it's place- such is resistance to oppression.

Doesn't have to be in Gaza- plenty of Palestinians live outside Palestine where the israelis can't bomb them to bits. The threats to israelis will go on for as long as the Palestinians in Palestine are oppressed.

 

 

Hamas started something it can't finish, and at what costs?

 

Do you think they thought they could "win"? LOL.

Perhaps they thought it was better to go out with a bang, than to die the death of a thousand cuts under israeli collective punishment and blockade.

Sure got your attention, didn't it?

Before October 7 most of the western world ignored the israeli illegal occupation, illegal settlements, land theft, the blockade on Gaza, collective punishment, murdering teenagers during raids, settler violence, etc. It's not ignoring it any more, is it!

Perhaps the israelis did exactly what Hamas expected them to do.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Even if one accepts this 'hydra' concept, it would take years for a new outfit to come anywhere close to the Hamas level. So it while it may not be a perfect answer, it gives some reprieve. As for operating from abroad - that's hardly the same as being on Israel's doorstep. I'm not sure which countries you had in mind, though - most of those that would agree to host Hamas on such terms are rather far away - which would make the same point as above.

 

Going with a bang how? Most of the Hamas men hide in the safety of their tunnels - living the civilians outside. Quite revealing that after post upon post where you shed (crocodile) tears about dead Palestinian children, turns out it's a legit course of action by Hamas to start a war knowing full would mean exactly such deaths. Guess AJ didn't show that interview with Hamas leader's words about dead Gazans being 'necessary sacrifices for the cause'.

 

As per all them bad bad things Israel does, most do not happen in the Gaza Strip, and the blockade is in place due to Hamas actions and agenda.

[WDSmart]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

It's not about disagreeing.

You constantly post things that aren't true.

This ain't about opinions, it's about facts.

They are opinions, so are yours. Neither are "facts." None of us know the "facts" for sure. We all just listen and read, and then form our opinions. 

[Morch]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent, well reasoned out response and completely on topic and not in contravention of any forum rules. Well done, and keep 'em coming as we all enjoy your brilliant posts.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

As opposed to your contribution and conduct?

 

[Morch]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All we need to know is that the Camp David and every other American initiative has failed to resolve the situation, and not just failed, but failed abysmally. Had they succeeded the October 7 attack would not have happened.

Now it looks like even the push to by pass Palestinians and normalise relations between Arab states and israel are on hold or ended for good.

 

@thaibeachlovers

 

Well, at least they tried and got some traction. Which is more that other countries did.

As for you fact free normalization comment - I'm not aware of any existing agreements being canceled, or even suspended. Saudi Arabia already signaled the process could be resumed later on. Israel's President Just visited Qatar, even - or maybe they didn't show that on AJ?