Israel and Hamas fight house-to-house battles across Gaza

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

On a parallel topic,

You mean another topic. 

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

@ozimoron

 

Yes, and?

South Africa is not suspected of being overly friendly with Israel on a good day.

 

On a parallel topic, you just scolded another poster for bringing up other countries not directly related to the topic at hand.

This topic is not about South Africa's ICJ move, but guess it's alright for you to bring it up - because of reasons. Or something.

You are doing exactly exactly what you accuse others of. 

 

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

To Israel demonizers, Israel defending themselves against barbaric terrorists is a war crime by definition.

 

topic isn't about war crimes.

Edited January 8 by ozimoron

[Neeranam]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

topic isn't about war crimes.

Don't think it matter what you say, or what Israel do, he's made up his mind. 

[Voodoochile]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:47 AM, Bkk Brian said:

Back on topic and some excellent footage here of the house to house fighting. Last time I saw the terrorists throwing grenades they were at innocent civilians hiding in safe rooms and bunkers at the music festival. Here we have a Hamas terrorist throw a grenade out of the room he's trapped in, the IDF soldier is hit but comes back to finish him off, close up. Its the second kill he had within a few seconds. Great stuff.

 

"This might be the most badass video released by the IDF yet.

Headcam footage shows a reservist of the Combat Engineering Corps’ elite Yahalom killing a Hamas gunman in an apartment in Gaza City’s Shejaiya neighborhood, before a grenade is hurled at him by a second operative. The soldier, despite being wounded, gets up and rushes at the second gunman, killing him from point-blank range."

 

 Go Israel wipe every single one those savages out 👍

[Morch]

On Gaza civilian evacuation road, IDF uncovers largest Hamas rocket factory to date

https://www.timesofisrael.com/on-gaza-civilian-evacuation-road-idf-uncovers-largest-hamas-rocket-factory-to-date/

 

Just to remind some folks what this is about.

[Morch]

Some more details about the planning and execution of the 7/10 attack:

 

‘Al-Aqsa Flood’ : Initiated by 70 Elite Fighters, Crafted by 5 Hamas Leaders

https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/4780421-‘al-aqsa-flood’-initiated-70-elite-fighters-crafted-5-hamas-leaders

 

The main element discussed is the secrecy and the level of 'need to know' applied.

I think the numbers of Hamas men cited participating in the attack are not reliable, and not in line with many other reports, or casualty figures.

 

[billd766]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:52 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

It's getting to the stage that western governments are unable to turn a blind eye to the carnage and have to demand a ceasefire with delivery of aid, despite their desire to support israel, or appear complicit.

The question then is what will they do if israel ignores them, ignores the UN, and carries on?

Probably much the same as they have so far.

 

Whine, moan and discuss a lot, but actually DO nothing. They will send envoys everywhere , but under Netanyahu, Israel is becoming a rogue state.

 

The US could make a start by stopping all aid to Israel. They could also accompany every UN aid convoy with armed military, and make sure that Israel and HAMAS equally understand that they are NOT to interfere with the convoys in any way, by clearly stating that to do so would be an act of war against the USA and the UN.

 

It probably won't happen, but it will send a message that Netanyahu will understand.

[billd766]

On 12/7/2023 at 1:54 PM, Purdey said:

The United Nations (UN) was established after the Second World War with the purpose of preventing the recurrence of the wars of the first half of the twentieth century, which brought great grief to mankind, and to safeguard international peace and security. They had one job and failed.

 

Can you explain how and why they failed?

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Probably much the same as they have so far.

 

Whine, moan and discuss a lot, but actually DO nothing. They will send envoys everywhere , but under Netanyahu, Israel is becoming a rogue state.

 

The US could make a start by stopping all aid to Israel. They could also accompany every UN aid convoy with armed military, and make sure that Israel and HAMAS equally understand that they are NOT to interfere with the convoys in any way, by clearly stating that to do so would be an act of war against the USA and the UN.

 

It probably won't happen, but it will send a message that Netanyahu will understand.

 

@billd766

 

You people do love tossing labels and terms about, regardless of facts or reason.

 

Becoming a a rogue state? How so? By what standard? Is there a mass of countries boycotting Israel? Sanctions? Cutting off ties? More like your fantasies.

 

Why would someone expect the USA to militarily confront Israel? That's quite out there.

[billd766]

On 12/7/2023 at 2:36 PM, placnx said:

It's still early, but it seems likely that sooner or later some countries will consider sanctions as the only way to respond to such recalcitrance.

But it is far too late for the 2x,xxx Palestinian women and children who have already died and the thousands more who will die in the future.

 

Talks and sanctions are fine but they will do very little against an army.

 

Real honest to goodness action is now required.

[billd766]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:18 PM, placnx said:

Answers to your propaganda (hasbara):

1. Archives coming out reveal that the campaign to expel Palestinians was premeditated. BTW It began in 1947. Arabs mobilized in response.

2. How can Arabs dominate the General Assembly (GA)? Anyway, at the beginning of this conflict, GA adopted Resolution 194. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_194  There were many after that, but SC Resolution 242 is the most relevant to now:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

Readers - note the propagandistic whataboutism in this extended rant.

3. Many have declared Gaza to be an "open air prison". I have not seen the term "concentration camp" used. It's been reported that Israel controls food imports to restricy caloric intake:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza

There are ulterior motives for allowing around 1% of Gazans to work in Israel, such as recruiting informants.

4. Please show a link or reference for the statistics which you cite. Some seem possibly true. As for prisons (not "concentration camps"), hopefully starvation is not the norm. As for incidence of diabetes in Gaza, there is a study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7699327/ Unbalanced diet seems to be the problem: too much sugar.

Thank you for those useful and very interesting links. Thank you also for not being biased in any way in your post.

 

 

[billd766]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:55 AM, Danderman123 said:

The carnage would end immediately if Hamas were to surrender.

It would also end immediately, if Netanyahu were to stop the war against innocent Palestinian women and children, and give himself up to the ICC in the Hague.

[billd766]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:18 PM, nobodysfriend said:

 

I consider Israel's policy to be " extremist " under the current Nethanyahu government . ( settlers ) . This government is giving the directives to the IDF , who , following orders , becomes extremist as well . Of course , I get your point , not all individual soldiers are extremists ,  but , what they are ordered to do ( destruction of Gaza ) is extreme .

The destruction is extreme , the death toll of the civilian population is extremely high and unnecessary in my point of view .

To reach their goal , the complete destruction of Hamas ( illusory anyway ), the Israelis are not shy to take extreme measures .

If you deny this , you are blind .

 

" Hamas in Gaza after a cross-border rampage by the enclave's ruling Islamist group on Oct. 7. At least 17,177 Palestinians have been killed since then, according to Gaza Health Ministry figures, while 1,200 people were killed in the Hamas incursion into Israel, according to Israeli tallies. "

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/how-many-palestinians-have-died-gaza-war-how-will-counting-continue-2023-12-06/

 

It will be difficult to know exactly how many active Hamas members have been killed , but , most dead people were no active members of the Hamas .

 

 

 

Thank you for your view.  It is good to see an unbiased post being published.

[billd766]

On 12/10/2023 at 3:58 AM, Danderman123 said:

You have seen reports of Hamas surrendering, you just don't believe them.

Yet you believe the reports from the IDF and the Israeli government are completely genuine and not propaganda.

[billd766]

On 12/13/2023 at 10:02 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

I would agree with that. They have refused to force israel to comply with international law, even when they are able to do so.

I don't think that they are. IMHO I DO think that they are far more of a hindrance than a help though.

[Danderman123]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Yet you believe the reports from the IDF and the Israeli government are completely genuine and not propaganda.

Nope.

 

But it would be shocking if zero Hamas has surrendered.

[Morch]

38 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It would also end immediately, if Netanyahu were to stop the war against innocent Palestinian women and children, and give himself up to the ICC in the Hague.

 

@billd766

 

More of your nonsense.

 

Israel is not at war with the citizens of Gaza. If it was, the casualty toll would be way higher.

As far as I'm aware, Netanyahu is not wanted by the ICC or even under direct investigation, never mind charges.

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Yet you believe the reports from the IDF and the Israeli government are completely genuine and not propaganda.

 

  I do yes, I believe that the IDF tells the truth and doesn't lie .

The IDF admit their errors .

Hamas just lie about everything and they wouldn't know the truth if , if..........whatever, cannot think of any comparison  to make  

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Yet you believe the reports from the IDF and the Israeli government are completely genuine and not propaganda.

 

@billd766

 

You believe what Hamas and the voices in your mind say.

Hamas men surrendering is a fact.

[Nick Carter icp]

46 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thank you for those useful and very interesting links. Thank you also for not being biased in any way in your post.

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thank you for your view.  It is good to see an unbiased post being published.

 

   Just use emojis to give a  like , no need to make posts to give a like .

That is what emojis are for 

[billd766]

On 1/8/2024 at 9:58 PM, Jingthing said:

To Israel demonizers, Israel defending themselves against barbaric terrorists is a war crime by definition.

NO.

 

Indiscriminately killing innocent Palestinian women and children is a war crime.

 

Depriving a whole country of food, water, medicines and electricity is a crime against humanity.

[Nick Carter icp]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Yet you believe the reports from the IDF and the Israeli government are completely genuine and not propaganda.

 

   Haven't you seen the videos and photos of Hamas surrendering ?

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

NO.

 

Indiscriminately killing innocent Palestinian women and children is a war crime.

 

Depriving a whole country of food, water, medicines and electricity is a crime against humanity.

 

@billd766

 

For you, there seems to be only one side in this war.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

NO.

 

Indiscriminately killing innocent Palestinian women and children is a war crime.

 

 

 

   That maybe so, but Israel isnt doing that 

[Morch]

IDF knows where Hamas leader is, but won’t strike at him because of hostages – reports

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-knows-where-hamas-leader-is-but-wont-strike-because-of-hostages-reports/

 

 

 

[Morch]

Report: Qatari proposal would see exile of Hamas leaders in exchange for release of hostages

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-qatari-proposal-would-see-exile-of-hamas-leaders-in-exchange-for-release-of-hostages/

 

Hard to tell if this is a serious offer, and if Hamas leaders in Gaza agree to it. How it will fare with regard to the Israeli government is also unknown (and quite dependent on which 'cabinet' makes the decision).

 

There are a whole lot of missing details, so hard to say if this can be acceptable, doable and if it's reasonable. One point which might be an issue is the Hamas's role (if any) in the Gaza Strip, on 'the day after'. I don't think Israel will be willing to accept that, for example. Similarly, as Hamas will retain some of its military capabilities, this will probably not hold long anyway.

 

In terms of releasing the hostages, life returning to normal (sort of) in Israel, and aid reaching the Gaza Strip, that might be the best available solution. In terms of addressing the standing issues (whether long term ones or specifically with regard to this war), not so much.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

Can you explain how and why they failed?

That's easy. They included the veto for the security council which means one country on the council can go against the wishes of a majority of the world's countries. We have seen that in spades over the Ukrainian and Gaza conflicts.

The veto needs to be able to be over ridden by a 2/3 majority in the General assembly. I doubt the security council members will vote to eliminate it entirely.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

NO.

 

Indiscriminately killing innocent Palestinian women and children is a war crime.

 

Depriving a whole country of food, water, medicines and electricity is a crime against humanity.

Not disagreeing at all, but when a territory is under the control of another country, the controlling country, I understand, has an obligation under international law to provide food, water, medicine etc. They certainly don't have a right to starve them and allow disease to kill them.

 

As usual, because of the US cover, israel gets away with ignoring it's obligations to Gaza.

 

When the countries of the western world made a completely different response to a similar conflict in a different part of the world, one wonders how certain western "leaders" can justify ignoring or even supporting israel's crimes in Gaza.

[thaibeachlovers]

 

Looks like the israeli government is expecting that expanded conflict that the US are trying to avoid.

 

https://en.haberler.com/israel-orders-hospitals-to-get-ready-for-treating-1908123/

Israel's Health Ministry has ordered hospitals in the north of the country to prepare for the possibility of receiving thousands of injured people as tensions with the Lebanese Hezbollah group increase, a report said Tuesday.

[Bkk Brian]

Not much fighting needed in this luxury house with pool, the cowards had left.

 

This is how Hamas leaders live in Gaza - palaces with pools. This is the vacation home of Marwan Issa, deputy commander of the terror group’s military wing.

Hamas has made its leaders rich while robbing the Palestinian people of an economic future.

 

 

Edited January 10 by Bkk Brian