Legal Tax minimization for foreigners

[Mike Lister]

16 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, we went through several iterations of thread title before settling on "Minimisation".

I sense we may need a separate thread to decide this. And a poll, we will definitely need a poll too.  :)

[jerrymahoney]

25 minutes ago, Foxx said:

Nothing to worry about.  Gift tax is only applicable on gifts above 10 million baht for non-relatives.

Sending a large money transfer to Thailand? What to know about taxes

 

Xe Consumer -- February 1, 2021

 

Income Tax

 

The gift tax might or might not apply when you send money to Thailand, but the income tax almost always applies. 

 

https://www.xe.com/ar/blog/money-transfer/sending-a-large-money-transfer-to-thailand-what-to-know-about-taxes/

[CharlieKo]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

How do you think I feel. :))

You may have made a rod for your own back. LOL.

[Negita43]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

How do you think I feel. :))

Didn't Asean give you a DTA exemption?

[MistyBlue]

7 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

I'm sure some one will correct me if I'm wrong. But only funds remitted to Thailand are taxable. This is not a tax that includes  global income.

 

Thanks.  I fully agree with you.  My post was discussing funds remitted under a specific scenario.

[CharlieKo]

5 minutes ago, MistyBlue said:

 

Thanks.  I fully agree with you.  My post was discussing funds remitted under a specific scenario.

If you are not in the country for more than 180 days in any tax year. You are not liable for Thai taxes. Spend 181 days or more here in any one tax year then you are liable. 

 

If you mean sending fund to Thailand while not in the country? you may have found a loophole or it doesn't apply as you have the benefit of using those funds when you are here, So a possible tax event. You would need to seek advice from an accountant on that one to be sure. Also if you paid tax on those funds in your home country. Then you wouldn't be liable for tax here if your country had a DTA with Thailand.

 

[MistyBlue]

4 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

If you are not in the country for more than 180 days in any tax year. You are not liable for Thai taxes. Spend 181 days or more here in any one tax year then you are liable. 

 

Thanks for the response and clarification.  This scenario might be a useful consideration in answer to the original post at the start of the topic.

[tgw]

6 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

A sensible post in a tax thread!

Unusual

 

 

I don't agree with wait and see.

In tax matters, it usually begins with "starting this year ... will be taxed", and then sometimes years later the revenue department could claim back taxes, using retroactive directives. no thanks.

better to be prepared.

[Foxx]

20 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

The gift tax might or might not apply when you send money to Thailand, but the income tax almost always applies. 

 

Pretty sure that link is wrong about income tax.  

[Moonlover]

25 minutes ago, MrMuddle said:

Doesn't the UK have one of these, does this mean UK citizens who pay ANY tax, won't be liable for tax in Thailand?  I'm taxed on Savings interest in the UK. 

Yes the UK does have a DTA with Thailand and I'm relying on it have my back on this pension issue. It's not exactly reader friendly but have go. 

UK-Thailand Double Taxation Convention signed 18 February 1981.pdf

[Phulublub]

9 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Yes the UK does have a DTA with Thailand and I'm relying on it have my back on this pension issue. It's not exactly reader friendly but have go. 

UK-Thailand Double Taxation Convention signed 18 February 1981.pdf 76.97 kB · 1 download

Brits in receipt of non-state pensions paid by public bodies should consult this list to see if their pension is covered by the DTA or not:

 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040

 

The state pension (OAP) is NOT covered by the DTA and is assessable income.

 

PH

[Phulublub]

There have been several posts stating or implying that if you have paid tax on income in your home country, then you cannot be taxed here if your country has a DTA with Thailand. 

 

I think this is not entirely true as if the Thai tax rate is higher than that in your home country, then I believe you could be liable for the difference.

 

PH 

[1FinickyOne]

10 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

Would one be a foreigner at home ?

I would probably feel that way.. it's been a long time. 

[Ralf001]

Just now, 1FinickyOne said:

I would probably feel that way.. it's been a long time. 

 

I expect many feel like a foreigner at home... but they are not.

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

There have been several posts stating or implying that if you have paid tax on income in your home country, then you cannot be taxed here if your country has a DTA with Thailand. 

 

I think this is not entirely true as if the Thai tax rate is higher than that in your home country, then I believe you could be liable for the difference.

 

PH 

That is correct. And anyway, this is one of those wait and see what the RD announces issues, a known unknown

[Mike Lister]

27 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

Pretty sure that link is wrong about income tax.  

XE is a pretty large organization and very well respected. Do you have any evidence or links to the contrary on this issue?

[Mike Lister]

1 hour ago, MistyBlue said:

This seems an appropriate thread to raise discussion on the following scenario.

 

Looking in to the future, say one is a Thai tax resident for 2024 and 2025 but remit none of the income made overseas.  In 2026 go traveling and only stay in Thailand for 5 months (under 180 days) and in that year remit the overseas income for 2024 and 2025, no return needed in 2026 as not tax resident for that year.  Then in 2027 stay more than 180 days and become tax resident again, the unknown (to me) is whether there would there be a liability for past income remitted into the country that was made when one was a tax resident.

 

I raise this because all the information I've found so far discusses income made and remitted when resident,  but not income made when resident but remitted when non-resident.

 

Maybe one to watch unfold in the future...

This is an excellent point to which I can't immediately see an obvious answer, it seems too easy to simply say, take a break and remit funds and all will be well. 

[CharlieKo]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

This is an excellent point to which I can't immediately see an obvious answer, it seems too easy to simply say, take a break and remit funds and all will be well. 

From an earlier post which I edited:-

 

If you mean sending fund to Thailand while not in the country? you may have found a loophole or it doesn't apply as you have the benefit of using those funds when you are here, So a possible tax event. You would need to seek advice from an accountant on that one to be sure. Also if you paid tax on those funds in your home country. Then you wouldn't be liable for tax here if your country had a DTA with Thailand.

 

[lost in isaan]

I was planning to send a hefty sum of money to Thailand for property and other goods and avoid taxes by staying out of Thailand for half a year. However, I was reading Siam Legal's post about it (https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thailand-new-tax-on-foreign-income-an-overview/) and am not sure if I can avoid it by just staying out of the country if I paid taxes the previous year. (I have not filed the tax report yet).

I hope things get clarified asap.
Quote from the post:
 

Quote

This provision requires an individual to pay income taxes to the Revenue Department of Thailand under the following conditions:
1.The individual is:

• A Thai citizen.
• A Thailand resident who filed taxes in the previous tax year.
• Foreigners living in Thailand for one or more periods totaling at least 180 days in any tax calendar year.

2.Receives income within or outside Thailand through:

• Employment (wage, salary, remuneration, etc.) under Section 40.
• Business operations under Section 40.
• Business operations of the employer under Section 40.
• Passive income or property (interests, dividends, rental income, goodwill, etc.) under Section 41 paragraph 2.

 

[Mike Lister]

6 minutes ago, lost in isaan said:

I was planning to send a hefty sum of money to Thailand for property and other goods and avoid taxes by staying out of Thailand for half a year. However, I was reading Siam Legal's post about it (https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law/thailand-new-tax-on-foreign-income-an-overview/) and am not sure if I can avoid it by just staying out of the country if I paid taxes the previous year. (I have not filed the tax report yet).

I hope things get clarified asap.
Quote from the post:
 

 

If the money was earned before 1 January 2024, it is not taxable in Thailand. That concession was granted by the RD in November last year in response to the furor raised about the  new rule.

[Negita43]

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

I think this is not entirely true as if the Thai tax rate is higher than that in your home country, then I believe you could be liable for the difference.

I think  the tax free allowance in each country (and the difference therof) may also factor in

 

Moderator Note: the quote is mis-attributed to Mike Lister but is in fact from poster Phulublub.

[Negita43]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

e)

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

e) Wait to find out how it's actually going to work, if implemented and enforced, at all.

All human wisdom is summed up in two words; wait and hope.  Alexandre Dumas
 

All human wisdom is summed up in two words; wait and hope. Share this Quote Alexandre Dumas
Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/wait-quotes

All human wisdom is summed up in two words; wait and hope. Share this Quote Alexandre Dumas
Read more at https://www.brainyquote.com/topics/wait-quotes

[Negita43]

24 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Pay the invoices via bank transfers to the GF, Friend or wife's account linked to the ATM card.

So then she has to pay the tax - Umm

[jollyhangmon]

19 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

I think  the tax free allowance in each country (and the difference therof) may also factor in

 

... yep, I guess you mean it would look somewhat like follows:

 

Income tax free personal allowance in AT for example is close to 500k THB at the moment (= 13k EUR) baseline, let's say 495k THB - compared to the Thai equivalent of what, 120k THB I believe (= 3.160.- EUR, all calculated at 1:38 exchange rate).

 

So a (here) potentially taxable difference of 375k THB / 9.870.- EUR even if one were to only bring in the amount that's tax free in the home country ...

 

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

Brits in receipt of non-state pensions paid by public bodies should consult this list to see if their pension is covered by the DTA or not:

 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040

 

The state pension (OAP) is NOT covered by the DTA and is assessable income.

 

PH

Thanks for posting that. It seems to confirm something that @Mike Lister said in his 'very simple guide' thread, that UK military pensions (being a government pension) would not be taxed by the Thai RD. 

 

If that proves to be true then I can sit back and relax. My RAF pension constitutes a little over half of my total pension income, which means that my taxable income will be well below the threshold set by the allowances. That's it, another beer is called for. 😊

[Foresttrump]

I currently reside in the UK all income taxed by HMRC, I have O-A visa and visit Thailand 4 times a year but less than 180 days.  I live with my Thai partner of 7 years in our 2 bed condo in Bangkok when visiting, I send 60,000thb to her bank account via Wise each month to cover cost etc, will she need to file a tax return?

 

[Mike Lister]

I've hidden a post that suggested a way to evade tax which I felt was into the realm of illegal tax evasion. Please stay away from the cliff edge. Thanks

[Negita43]

6 minutes ago, Foresttrump said:

 I live with my Thai partner of 7 years in our 2 bed condo in Bangkok when visiting, I send 60,000thb to her bank account via Wise each month to cover cost etc, will she need to file a tax return?

As far as I am aware all Thai nationals if they fall within the taxation parameter should file a return but I think mnay do not.

[Mike Lister]

4 minutes ago, Foresttrump said:

I currently reside in the UK all income taxed by HMRC, I have O-A visa and visit Thailand 4 times a year but less than 180 days.  I live with my Thai partner of 7 years in our 2 bed condo in Bangkok when visiting, I send 60,000thb to her bank account via Wise each month to cover cost etc, will she need to file a tax return?

 

Please read the following since it's not a simple Yes No answer but is dependent on several factors. If you don't have your answer after reading it, please come back and ask any remaining questions. Thanks

 

[Negita43]

1 minute ago, Mike Lister said:

I've hidden a post that suggested a way to evade tax which I felt was into the realm of illegal tax evasion. Please stay away from the cliff edge. Thanks

Mike if it's the post I'm thinking of (to which I replied). All it would do is tranfer the laibility for tax to the other person