A bump in the road to full EV adoption - EV Battery Factory Will Require So Much Energy It Needs A Coal Plant To Power It

[Crossy]

A $4 billion Panasonic electric vehicle battery factory in De Soto, Kansas, will help satisfy the Biden administration’s efforts to get everyone into an EV. 

It also will help extend the life of a coal-fired power plant. 

Resource Adequacy

Panasonic broke ground on the facility last year. The Japanese company was slated to receive $6.8 billion from the Inflation Reduction Act, which has been pouring billions into electric vehicles and battery factories as part of its effort to transition America away from fossil fuels. 

Read more ...

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/22/ev-battery-factory-will-require-so-much-energy-it-needs-a-coal-plant-to-power-it/

 

[retarius]

Someday we will get a real assessment of the benefits and drawbacks of EVs. One that has not been written to sell more EVs, but a realistic assessment of the scale of the environmental damage done and the real benefits that EVs bring. I have not been very convinced by the arguments so far, and the 'results' of 'studies' paid for by manufacturers don't share their assumptions. 

[sirineou]

Nonsense!! .

what different does it make what type of power is used to construct components for an EV? 

They will use whatever is available.

Is there a requirement that only clean energy sources are used to manufacture clean energy components? If that's so then it is impossible to ever have clean energy. 

 

Edited January 19 by sirineou

[JBChiangRai]

Pretty loaded choice of headline

 

+1 for the battery factory

 

I wonder what the power authorities when they say they will continue to burn coal in the near term before they transition to something else? what does near term mean?

[sirineou]

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Pretty loaded choice of headline

A dog whistle headline to get the dogs howling .

[impulse]

I'm more worried about throwing $6.8 billion of tax money up against a wall and hoping it sticks.  To a foreign company, no less.  And doing that hundreds of times.  When we have a $34T deficit.  And millions of new hungry mouths, with crappy employment prospects.

 

[Muhendis]

Why don't the Americans build their own factory?

[BenStark]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

Nonsense!! .

what different does it make what type of power is used to construct components for an EV? 

They will use whatever is available.

Is there a requirement that only clean energy sources are used to manufacture clean energy components? If that's so then it is impossible to ever have clean energy. 

 

 

You do understand that EV is all about reducing the carbon footprint?

 

You also understand that the coal firing plant, which would not be there if there were no EV's, adds to the carbon footprint?

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

Someday we will get a real assessment of the benefits and drawbacks of EVs.

 

Yes.

But, this will require accounting based on reality.

And so, this might not happen anytime soon.

 

[sirineou]

2 minutes ago, BenStark said:

You do understand that EV is all about reducing the carbon footprint?

No really? 

Do you understand that they have to somehow be made, before they start reducing carbon? 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

it is impossible to ever have clean energy.

 

Never a truer word spoken!

 

Energy is not clean.

Neither is it unclean.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

Using a coal-fired power plant to power EVs is fine.

 

The only question is...

How will they sequester the CO2?

 

 

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

I'm more worried about throwing $6.8 billion of tax money up against a wall and hoping it sticks.  To a foreign company, no less.  And doing that hundreds of times.  When we have a $34T deficit.  And millions of new hungry mouths, with crappy employment prospects.

 

But it fits with biden's 'made in USA' stance, even though a company with HQ in JP 

 

Top 10 states for auto manufacturing & coal fired power plants

Michigan ... 5 coal fired power stations

Ohio ... 5

Indiana ... 13

Texas ... 12

Illinois ... 10

Tennessee ... 4

Missouri ... 9

Kentucky ... 9

Alabama ... 3

Mississippi ... 2

 

Hypocrisy - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

Edited January 19 by KhunLA

[jaideedave]

During a very recent cold snap in Alberta,Canada the citizens were advised to NOT plug in their EV,s.

[Negita43]

Cut out the middleman

https://drivemag.com/news/gm-made-a-coal-powered-car-in-the-80s/

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, jaideedave said:

During a very recent cold snap in Alberta,Canada the citizens were advised to NOT plug in their EV,s.

 

link please

[OneMoreFarang]

It's crazy that EVs are promoted left, right and center in so many countries by so many people.

Maybe it's time to take a step back and look again if those vehicles with those expensive and dangerous batteries are really such a good idea.

 

And then there are some more, I guess unexpected, problems:

 

[BenStark]

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

link please

 

 

On Saturday night, the AESO had to issue an emergency alert asking households to conserve power to avert a “high risk” of rotating power outages, CBC wrote. That meant turning off unnecessary lights and appliances, minimizing use of electric space heaters, avoid cooking with a stove, and delaying plugging in electric vehicles or block heaters.

 

https://www.theenergymix.com/alberta-premier-blames-renewables-after-cold-snap-idled-gas-plants-trigger-grid-emergency/

 

And BTW there are similar issues in other parts of the world.

 

Time to wake up.

 

Have you read the latests Telegraph article about EV's in the UK dropping FIFTY % in second hand value at only the third year, and sales of new EV's dropping like a stone?

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, BenStark said:

 

 

On Saturday night, the AESO had to issue an emergency alert asking households to conserve power to avert a “high risk” of rotating power outages, CBC wrote. That meant turning off unnecessary lights and appliances, minimizing use of electric space heaters, avoid cooking with a stove, and delaying plugging in electric vehicles or block heaters.

 

https://www.theenergymix.com/alberta-premier-blames-renewables-after-cold-snap-idled-gas-plants-trigger-grid-emergency/

 

And BTW there are similar issues in other parts of the world.

 

Time to wake up.

 

Have you read the latests Telegraph article about EV's in the UK dropping FIFTY % in second hand value at only the third year, and sales of new EV's dropping like a stone?

And that would be the EV owners' fault that govt/utility companies don't plan for unfavorable weather with a larger natural gas reserve.

 

That's like blaming the EV owners in TH, or anywhere, because gov't/utility companies didn't expand use of renewables, so they have to burn coal or oil for electric, instead of renewable energy they failed to provide.

 

With that failed thinking ahead, invite 40M tourist to visit when you're still doing brown outs for lack of proper electric service to Thai homes & business.

 

EVs been around for decades.  Time for govt and utilities to step up their game was decades ago also.

Edited January 19 by KhunLA

[mokwit]

Everybody except Greta fans knows this.

[jaideedave]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

link please

On Saturday night, the AESO had to issue an emergency alert asking households to conserve power to avert a “high risk” of rotating power outages, CBC wrote. That meant turning off unnecessary lights and appliances, minimizing use of electric space heaters, avoid cooking with a stove, and delaying plugging in electric vehicles or block heaters.

 

https://www.theenergymix.com/alberta-premier-blames-renewables-after-cold-snap-idled-gas-plants-trigger-grid-emergency/

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

You do understand that EV is all about reducing the carbon footprint?

 

You also understand that the coal firing plant, which would not be there if there were no EV's, adds to the carbon footprint?

Replacing every ICE vehicle on the planet with an EV overnight would only reduce CO2 emissions by 8%. EV's are fine for places like Norway, where 98.4% of energy production is hydro and wind power. They are also good in city environments, transferring pollution elsewhere.

 

We are in a bind, global warming and climate change are inevitable. The world still relies on fossil fuels for about 70% of power generation. Nuclear is on the nose, expensive and with major safety concerns. Solar, wind and tidal renewables have been delayed by political foot-dragging.

 

Buy property that is not vulnerable to bushfire, wind and flooding. That rules out Bangkok, which is only a metre above sea level.

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, BenStark said:

 

 

On Saturday night, the AESO had to issue an emergency alert asking households to conserve power to avert a “high risk” of rotating power outages, CBC wrote. That meant turning off unnecessary lights and appliances, minimizing use of electric space heaters, avoid cooking with a stove, and delaying plugging in electric vehicles or block heaters.

 

https://www.theenergymix.com/alberta-premier-blames-renewables-after-cold-snap-idled-gas-plants-trigger-grid-emergency/

 

And BTW there are similar issues in other parts of the world.

 

Time to wake up.

 

Have you read the latests Telegraph article about EV's in the UK dropping FIFTY % in second hand value at only the third year, and sales of new EV's dropping like a stone?

 

1 hour ago, jaideedave said:

 

https://www.theenergymix.com/alberta-premier-blames-renewables-after-cold-snap-idled-gas-plants-trigger-grid-emergency/

 

So AESO failed to plan for a cold snap, nothing to do with EV's, or as much to do with EV's as "lights and appliances, minimizing use of electric space heaters, avoid cooking with a stove, and delaying plugging in electric vehicles or block heaters."

 

Similar issues in other parts of the world? no link given

 

Regarding 2nd hand value, this link cars in the UK are typically valued at between 40% and 60% of initial price after 3 years, the telegraph appears to be saying that EV's are right in the middle of normality.

Car Depreciation - UK Market Guide (2024 Update) | Motorway

 

Don't believe sensationalist headlines, always look deeper.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19 by JBChiangRai
Spellong

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Replacing every ICE vehicle on the planet with an EV overnight would only reduce CO2 emissions by 8%.

 

Not citation to support your figures? Must be made up then.

 

 

 

[Gweiloman]

5 hours ago, jaideedave said:

During a very recent cold snap in Alberta,Canada the citizens were advised to NOT plug in their EV,s.

Talk about being economical with the truth. The emergency alert was to minimise use of electrical appliances due to piss poor planning and foresight. If the relevant authorities would have been smarter, they would have asked EV owners to fully charge up their EVs in advance and then use the V2L feature to power their home appliances. 

[sirineou]

Quote

A bump in the road to full EV adoption - EV Battery Factory Will Require So Much Energy It Needs A Coal Plant To Power It

You this is is bad? 

compared to what I am about to tell toy this pales in comparison. 

I have it from reliable source that many , perhaps most of the people that work at EV factories eat beef!!

I know righty? 

Cattle are the number one producers of CO2 and this people support the industry . 

Wake up people!! EVs are made by beef eaters.

Ohh!!  the hypocrisy. 

I bet you Biden eats beef.

[Crossy]

12 hours ago, sirineou said:

Cattle are the number one producers of CO2

 

And methane, don't forget they belch, a lot!!

They could be however, be rivaled by some AN members

[sirineou]

13 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

And methane, don't forget they belch, a lot!!

They could be however, be rivaled by some AN members

I know I am doing my part 

[Crossy]

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

I know I am doing my part 

 

 

[Lacessit]

14 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Not citation to support your figures? Must be made up then.

 

 

 

It's a figure calculated by John Cadogan. I could find the video if I wanted to waste my time for you. I don't.

 

The transportation sector includes everything - aircraft, trains, shipping, heavy haulage. I specifically said ICE vehicles being replaced by EV's, which most reasonable people would take to mean passenger vehicles.

 

In your rush to dump on me, you forgot to parse the data. Try to do better next time.