advise needed. visarun. got rejected on airport

[StayinThailand2much]

10 minutes ago, popel said:

 

best example would be the russians..

last year they got unlimited! 30 day land-crossings.. now it's 3 month.

 

Would be interesting to know, if Russians enter, say, 3x like that, they will face scrutiny too. After all, together with the Chinese they seem to be the preferred tourists these days.

 

Also, first it was tourists repeatedly arriving on VFEs, but now they are already targeting tourists with single and multiple tourist visas. What's next; expats with Non-Immigrant visas being quizzed at the border, and possibly denied?

[JimTripper]

40 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Not so Thailand, where everything in regards to immigration matters seems to be 'in a grey area' on purpose. One could almost think that there is not one, but two Immigration divisions, or that things are done as if there were two different bureaucracies in one country...

Or that the immigration officials themselves can't interpret things in a balanced manner. It's either a hard yes or no, with little ability to make a judgement call.

 

A lot if things are like that in thailand, meaning they are extremes. It's either overly nice or real nasty, they pull your tooth rather then treat it, etc etc. but there is rarely any compromise or middle ground.

[popel]

14 hours ago, NextG said:

This is Immigration Act Clause 12 subsection 2 – ไม่มีปัจจัยยังชีพตามสมควร = no reasonable means of sustenance. 

 

do you know what the last sentence is meaning?  "3.mo / 3.ma" 

[StayinThailand2much]

17 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

Or that the immigration officials themselves can't interpret things in a balanced manner. It's either a hard yes or no, with little ability to make a judgement call.

 

Then there should be a possibility to appeal against incompetent or unfair decisions, and I mean within hours rather than weeks(?) to the minister. Why is there no 'Immigration Ombudsman' or something similar at important border entry points? (And no, supervisors who are in cahoots with rogue IOs, and/or change their decisions when bribed are no alternative to this.)

[NextG]

3 hours ago, popel said:

 

do you know what the last sentence is meaning?  "3.mo / 3.ma" 

I do not. 

[Dan O]

19 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

That's the standard, throw-down reason to deny entry issued many, many times by many IO's at various airports already.

 

In some instances, the IO's haven't even asked to see proof of 20,000 baht (equivalent) before sending people back. I recall a few "help! stuck at airport" threads here where the IO's ignored the cash being shown to them: some will actually look away so they can claim they never saw it. If they suspect dodginess of any sort, it's the easiest way of sending people back quickly, as it probably requires minimal paperwork?

Or maybe if the imm officers sees you've been in country on numerous exempt entries and tourist visas for an overly extended period its obvious your not a tourist and since you can't legally work here there is no means of sustaining your visit financially. That's called using their discretion and making a judgment call. Tourist visits are meant to be short stays not year long or more adventures. Every country has imm officers with the same authority to make judgment calls on what the see. Many dont like it and claim thats not in the regs so the inm officer is rogue for doing their job. Not many countries willing let you come in and play the system like Thailand. Yes there are several countries easy and give longer stays but none want you using the visa system like many do here. 

 

[impulse]

7 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Would be interesting to know, if Russians enter, say, 3x like that, they will face scrutiny too. After all, together with the Chinese they seem to be the preferred tourists these days.

 

Could just be a quiet way of granting short term asylum to those who don't want to kill Ukes.

 

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

Or maybe if the imm officers sees you've been in country on numerous exempt entries and tourist visas for an overly extended period its obvious your not a tourist and since you can't legally work here there is no means of sustaining your visit financially. That's called using their discretion and making a judgment call. Tourist visits are meant to be short stays not year long or more adventures. Every country has imm officers with the same authority to make judgment calls on what the see. Many dont like it and claim thats not in the regs so the inm officer is rogue for doing their job. Not many countries willing let you come in and play the system like Thailand. Yes there are several countries easy and give longer stays but none want you using the visa system like many do here. 

I used to do tourism for a year. Many Thai's don't understand that people can have money saved up and don't need to work at a fruit stand somewhere. They are also in a rush and want people scuttering about on that good old minivan going from place as quickly as possible. They think it's still the old school two week vacation thing from the 1980's, or they just like people scuttering about and not setting down roots because they are impatient children themselves. "Are we there yet?"

 

People from well off countries have money and time for tourism. They don't need to rush about. They like to relax a bit and enjoy the scenery.

[Chivas]

On 2/2/2024 at 11:26 PM, popel said:

 

everything! i need is in my room here. 

could book a ticket but couldn't take out cash over there.. or anything more 

 

I havent read entire thread but surely on a visa run you would take all your financial stuff with you from Cards Cash etc etc

Nobody would go with just a passport and nothing else surely

[Chivas]

9 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

I used to do tourism for a year. Many Thai's don't understand that people can have money saved up and don't need to work at a fruit stand somewhere. They are also in a rush and want people scuttering about on that good old minivan going from place as quickly as possible. They think it's still the old school two week vacation thing from the 1980's.

 

People from well off countries have money and time for tourism. They don't need to rush about. They like to relax a bit and enjoy the scenery. "Are we there yet?"

 

Indeed

[GypsyT]

7 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Why is there no 'Immigration Ombudsman' or something similar at important border entry points?

Because we are only Cash Cows to all; Girls and the Government...

Either you like it or get out.

[GypsyT]

9 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

It only takes a few minutes a day to scan this forum for the latest news, now fool the OP for ignoring the basic purpose of this site.

I didn't know this was mandatory to be in Thailand!

[GypsyT]

8 hours ago, popel said:

do you know what the last sentence is meaning?  "3.mo / 3.ma"

Could be "Last 3 months bank statements"

They ask that for visas etc. Time to PhotoShop....

[john donson]

isn't there a paper you can print and sign, to object your objection from entering?

 

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

I used to do tourism for a year. Many Thai's don't understand that people can have money saved up and don't need to work at a fruit stand somewhere. They are also in a rush and want people scuttering about on that good old minivan going from place as quickly as possible. They think it's still the old school two week vacation thing from the 1980's, or they just like people scuttering about and not setting down roots because they are impatient children themselves. "Are we there yet?"

 

People from well off countries have money and time for tourism. They don't need to rush about. They like to relax a bit and enjoy the scenery.

People need to remember it's their country not yours and they set the rules like every other country. Very few countries consider 6 months to a year as a Tourist, even if you do. It has nothing to do with you being affluent. Look at most all countries and you will find very few that are as lacks as Thailand and people still think they can take advantage because they are entitled to as they have money. There are other visas available that are more properly suited for long stay. Just like most all other countries you need to qualify and if you don't then you don't get that visa option. The main reason Thailand is as lacks as they are is because tourist dollars' is such a significant amount of GDP and fuels the economy and labor market. 

[FritsSikkink]

16 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

I might go for a Thailand Elite membership  A Thai investment visa is a terrible idea. An Education visa is not possible at all if you need to travel, and is not a long term option these days, unless you want to study at university. Marriage? Are you suggesting a marriage of convenience? Personally, I would never consider it to solve my visa issues. Those in same sex relationships are out of luck, even if married (abroad).

Most people who are working (digital nomads with overseas clients) do not qualify for any of the visa options you suggest.

The OP has a long-term GF already, so i am not suggesting a marriage out of convenience. With proper Education, I thought of a university which has some nice long holidays. Now it appears he could go for a retirement visa.

 

Digital nomads can have a LTR visa if they make enough money, setup a company here or get employed. Now they work here and don't pay Thai tax (forget the stupid, I pay VAT excuse). Too much entitlement on this part. 

[Sheryl]

@popel

 

If i understand correctly you are in VN now and planning to try to return via air to Chiang Mai.

 

To maximize your chances of being let in:

 

- get a tourist visa if you possibly can

- have a return or onward flight ticket in hand to show them - this makes a BIG difference - and also have a hotel booking, make one online that allows cancellation.

-Have 20k baht or equivalent in hand, though I must say I have yet to hear of a Westerner being asked to show it (including those being refused entry).

 

Also if I understand correctly your plan once in is to arrange your stuff etc then return to Europe. This is a good idea.

 

If you want to later return to Thailand, give it a few months at least and then re-enter only with a visa.

 

If your future desire is just to spend just a few  months a year here, a tourist visa will allow you 3 months (2 months given on arrival and can extend for another 30 days) and with your history and a documented refused entry in your passport this is a better idea than visa exempt entry followed by "border bounces". While there is nothing technically illegal about border bounces they are readily identifiable to any Imm officer from your history which they can call up online and generally frowned upon, now that you have a denied entry in your record you need to be more careful than most. Entries with a visa are always safer than visa exempt for people with histories that may raise a red flag. A visa plus a return (or onward) flight booking, after a reasonable period out of country (i.e. couple of months or more)  will almost always get you through even if stopped for questioning first

 

 

[popel]

thanks for all the visa suggestions...

 

but in this moment of time i just need a sure! way IN for get my stuff and go back home country. there is no some "emergency" 1 week stay right?

 

i got only one shot 

it's all or nothing for me 😔

yes.. i learned my lesson

 

thanks so much for your help here..

[Lemsta69]

10 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Well, to be fair to the OP, I think, most border denials do not make it as reports into this forum. Also, it is not really clear what the agenda, or orders are that IOs at certain borders (e.g. both Bangkok airports, Phuket Airport, etc.) follow, particularly in recent times, denying travellers, because 'they have too many visa extensions, Covid extensions', etc., etc.

 

The TAT and tourism industry, as well as inland immigration offices seem to have no problem with tourists staying for extended times (or why would they extend any VFE or tourist visa), or travelling often to Thailand. Most countries have clear rules on how often and how long someone can travel there in a calendar year. Not so Thailand, where everything in regards to immigration matters seems to be 'in a grey area' on purpose. One could almost think that there is not one, but two Immigration divisions, or that things are done as if there were two different bureaucracies in one country...

 

There have been quite a few threads on the subject of denied or near-denied entry in recent months, enough to get the sense that certain immigration officers are reverting to their pre-Covid "war on visa runners".

 

The information's all there, all you have to do is fire up the forum and read it.

[Lemsta69]

2 hours ago, GypsyT said:

I didn't know this was mandatory to be in Thailand!

 

Well nobody is going to knock on your door and give you regular updates so it behooves you to seek out that information yourself so you don't find yourself in a pickle.

 

This website is the primary source of information for expats and has a wealth of information. More fool you if you ignore it.

[Antiparovian]

GF waiting !!!

[41632584]

21 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Lemsta69 got the idea that you're over 50... Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but at that age no ED Visa possible anymore.

 

Recently, a friend of mine was about to apply for an agent assisted Non-ED extension and last minute immigration refused as they discovered he'd reach 50 in a few months and explained that they could/would not issue such extensions to anyone over 50 and advised he should get a Retirement extension.

[41632584]

6 hours ago, popel said:

thanks for all the visa suggestions...

 

but in this moment of time i just need a sure! way IN for get my stuff and go back home country. there is no some "emergency" 1 week stay right?

 

i got only one shot 

it's all or nothing for me 😔

yes.. i learned my lesson

 

thanks so much for your help here..

 

If you got some cash to spare, you could consider using an agent to facilitate guaranteed entry. 

[Highlandman]

On 2/3/2024 at 6:26 AM, popel said:

 

everything! i need is in my room here. 

could book a ticket but couldn't take out cash over there.. or anything more 

Why would anyone leave their cash and credit cards at home when they travel abroad? I ALWAYS bring my wallet containing ALL my cards and whatever cash I need on my trips. Only cash that remains at home is small amounts of foreign currency that isn't relevant to my particular trip (for example, if I'm going to Cambodia I'm not going to bring the $20 worth of Myanmar Kyat or 50 Euros I have stored at home with me).

 

Even if I don't intend to use my credit/debits cards I bring them because you know what? S*** happens. If I run out of money, I'll need to charge my way and/or withdraw money from an ATM.

[Highlandman]

7 hours ago, popel said:

thanks for all the visa suggestions...

 

but in this moment of time i just need a sure! way IN for get my stuff and go back home country. there is no some "emergency" 1 week stay right?

 

i got only one shot 

it's all or nothing for me 😔

yes.. i learned my lesson

 

thanks so much for your help here..

 

You might be able to get in by land.

 

Get yourself to Laos, enter through any international border shared with Thailand (there are 10, though those not coming by car will only be using one of about 5 of them due to the public transportation links they have). Basically use any of the 4 bridges or the Chong Mek crossing. 

 

An alternative is via Cambodia except Aranyaprathet, which is as bad as the airports. 

[Highlandman]

9 hours ago, JimTripper said:

I used to do tourism for a year. Many Thai's don't understand that people can have money saved up and don't need to work at a fruit stand somewhere. They are also in a rush and want people scuttering about on that good old minivan going from place as quickly as possible. They think it's still the old school two week vacation thing from the 1980's, or they just like people scuttering about and not setting down roots because they are impatient children themselves. "Are we there yet?"

 

People from well off countries have money and time for tourism. They don't need to rush about. They like to relax a bit and enjoy the scenery.

 

I don't think it's Thais in general that think this way. Many Thais believe all sorts of unrealistic things about westerners such as that we get paid by the government just like that or that our trees produce money. 

 

It's Thai immigration that has an antiquated way of thinking. Thai people think way differently.

[Highlandman]

17 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Would be interesting to know, if Russians enter, say, 3x like that, they will face scrutiny too. After all, together with the Chinese they seem to be the preferred tourists these days.

 

Also, first it was tourists repeatedly arriving on VFEs, but now they are already targeting tourists with single and multiple tourist visas. What's next; expats with Non-Immigrant visas being quizzed at the border, and possibly denied?

 

Yes, they will be scrutinized too. I'm not sure on this, but can imagine that it's one 90 day visa waiver entry for them and then they have to leave and re-enter by air at a later date, after some time away to get another 90 days. They're unlikely to be granted consecutive 90 day entries. Same as Koreans for example.

[Highlandman]

On 2/3/2024 at 7:38 AM, DrJack54 said:

OP, your immediate problem will be being admitted to Vietnam. 

What is passport country.

Not aware of country that only gets 15 days. Previously yes but rules changed Aug last year.

 

Thinking you have couple of options. 

Have the gf take mini holiday to Saigon and bring all your stuff, after which you fly home and have bit of a  break from Thailand.

Otherwise do entry to Thailand via land which would be horrible from Saigon but should work. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not horrible at all, unless you're 80 and/or have mobility problems and can't stand sitting on a bus for longer than an hour. The OP being a little over 50 will have no problems at all with this journey. 

 

You can also break up the trip. 

 

Almost everyone traveling between Saigon and Thailand by land spends at least a night in Phnom Penh before continuing their journey. It's not realistic to do it in one day but I easily managed Ho Chi Minh to Koh Kong on the Thai border the same day by car (Vietnamese friend brought me to the Cambodian border then I drove my car, which I parked at the Vietnamese border the rest of the way). This was in the days before the Sihanoukville expressway opened. Now it's way faster.

 

Obviously Ho Chi Minh to Bangkok or Pattaya in one day isn't realistic though almost possible if you're a masochist and take private taxis the whole way and leave Saigon around 4 or 5am. Totally unnecessary though.

 

As the OP is a tourist or is something else but isn't working in Thailand he has no excuse for needing to rush back into Thailand.

 

He can spend 1 night in Phnom Penh, another night in Siem Reap then travel via Chong Chom or Pong Nam Ron into Thailand (the latter makes more sense for Pattaya). Siem Reap to Pattaya in one day via Pong Nam Ron (Ban Pakkard) isn't a particularly stressful or lengthy trip either. Catch a cab from Siem Reap to the border. Cross on foot (the two borders are right next to one another) then catch a cab or bus to either Chanthaburi or direct to Pattaya. Siem Reap to Pattaya can be accomplished in roughly 7 hours this way.

 

For what this guy needs to do, it's worth it. 

[Highlandman]

My post above may have startled at least one person, who has clearly never traveled by land within this region.

 

Another option for the OP to save some time is fly Ho Chi Minh to Siem Reap on Vietnam Airlines. Then proceed by land from there to Pattaya avoiding Poipet/ Aranyaprathet. Simple as can be. 

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, Highlandman said:

Another option for the OP to save some time is fly Ho Chi Minh to Siem Reap

The OP is currently in Da Nang.