Isaan Funerals

[connda]

15 hours ago, lungbing said:

the first thing we knew about a neighbour dying was when a pickup laden with huge speakers turned up and began to play sad music all day, full volume.

Been there (laughs).  We didn't even try to sleep before midnight.  The speakers where Huge!  📢

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, udontomi said:

We "farang" are visitors/guests in Thailand (Isaan) and should remember that as such we should either accept our hosts' culture or leave!

As long as I don't have to foot the bill.

[Kalasin Jo]

On 2/5/2024 at 1:41 PM, Will B Good said:

If we have one more "Isaan" funeral in our village over the coming weeks I am leaving my wife.......five effing days of non-stop deafening bass notes.

Was there gambling too? Hi Lo? 5 effing days of it? That's what happens in our village. The bodies here are taken to be burned in the Temple furnace.

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, connda said:

Up to 100 days.  Jing!

No. The ceremonies and parties do not last 100 days. That is the mourning period.

 

There might be a 100 day ceremony, obviously on the 100th day after death, bur the ceremonies are not continuous for that period.

 

As far as I know, and have experienced, the pre cremation get togethers last for 1,3,5 or 7 days. Depending on the money situation.

[Lemsta69]

5 hours ago, udontomi said:

We "farang" are visitors/guests in Thailand (Isaan) and should remember that as such we should either accept our hosts' culture or leave!

 

bull<deleted>

[youreavinalaff]

2 hours ago, connda said:

This is a typical Thai funeral.  Most villages have "funeral funds" that the villagers pay into every time someone dies.  Over a life-time, that can amount to a significant amount of money.  The pay-out to the families of the dead in our village is 200K THB.  Most families blow the entire amount on ornate caskets and canopies as well as the three day Ngaan Sop (festival for the dead). 

At the funeral grounds, if there is a gas crematorium, after the casket is placed in the oven, the canopy is placed on a cement structure which looks like a foundation for a building.  It is then burnt as well.  I've got pictures somewhere.
Watching these events really give you insight into one key aspect of Thai Buddhist culture.  "Life is not certain; only death is certain."  So here in the Land of Different Cultural Practices Than The West, well, it's just different. 

So embrace it.  It is sure a healthier perspective than the morbidity of Western funerals. 

Taking the culture one step further, one has to consider the different cultures within Isaan. 

 

A Khmer funeral will differ in some ways to a Laos funeral. Both will differ to a Thai funeral. A Gui funeral also will differ to them all.

[kimamey]

2 hours ago, connda said:

This is a typical Thai funeral.  Most villages have "funeral funds" that the villagers pay into every time someone dies.  Over a life-time, that can amount to a significant amount of money.  The pay-out to the families of the dead in our village is 200K THB.  Most families blow the entire amount on ornate caskets and canopies as well as the three day Ngaan Sop (festival for the dead). 

At the funeral grounds, if there is a gas crematorium, after the casket is placed in the oven, the canopy is placed on a cement structure which looks like a foundation for a building.  It is then burnt as well.  I've got pictures somewhere.
Watching these events really give you insight into one key aspect of Thai Buddhist culture.  "Life is not certain; only death is certain."  So here in the Land of Different Cultural Practices Than The West, well, it's just different. 

So embrace it.  It is sure a healthier perspective than the morbidity of Western funerals. 

A lot of the funerals I've been to in the UK haven't been that morbid, although they were mainly for older people. In the funerals in Thailand of close family or in the case of a cousin who was 19 it would be difficult to know if someone was getting married, becoming a monk or had died. It's only at the removal or opening of the coffin that feelings are shown.

[kimamey]

21 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

No. The ceremonies and parties do not last 100 days. That is the mourning period.

 

There might be a 100 day ceremony, obviously on the 100th day after death, bur the ceremonies are not continuous for that period.

 

As far as I know, and have experienced, the pre cremation get togethers last for 1,3,5 or 7 days. Depending on the money situation.

I think I remember 100 days being mentioned as the time before the bones or ashes are placed in the temple wall or in a river.

[kimamey]

4 hours ago, grain said:

It's a face thing, the louder the noise, the bigger the sound system, the more money you have and the bigger your face. It's often to the point of absurdity. Right bang smack in the middle of the covid pandemic in Thailand a lady up the road from us had her son become a monk and she went the whole 9-yards with the massive sound system blocking the road. My wife went to the party, she told me everyone wore masks, but due to the deafening volume everyone had to lean in close together to hear what each other was saying, and of course this was at a time when everyone was supposed to be social distancing.

True. Sounds a bit like vanity to me which I thought wasn't very Buddhist. I did read up on Theravada Buddhism when I first came here, but I gave up when I realised it was nothing like what I was seeing.

[grain]

2 hours ago, connda said:

Been there (laughs).  We didn't even try to sleep before midnight.  The speakers where Huge!  📢

The worst we ever had was a few years ago and we had been in Australia for 3 months and just arrived back in Thailand, we got a taxi from BKK to our village in Korat and the old lady directly across the road from us must have passed away while we were sitting in the taxi. By the time we reached home it was like the "Guns & Roses" road crew were busy erecting the scaffolding and setting up the speaker bins on the opposite side of the road directly facing us. It started every day at 5:30am and went to about midnight. It was terrible. But in hindsight I was bloody daft for remaining, I should have tossed some stuff into my car and headed down to Pattaya for a week, which is exactly what I'll do next time.

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, connda said:

This is a typical Thai funeral.  Most villages have "funeral funds" that the villagers pay into every time someone dies.  Over a life-time, that can amount to a significant amount of money.  The pay-out to the families of the dead in our village is 200K THB.  Most families blow the entire amount on ornate caskets and canopies as well as the three day Ngaan Sop (festival for the dead). 

At the funeral grounds, if there is a gas crematorium, after the casket is placed in the oven, the canopy is placed on a cement structure which looks like a foundation for a building.  It is then burnt as well.  I've got pictures somewhere.
Watching these events really give you insight into one key aspect of Thai Buddhist culture.  "Life is not certain; only death is certain."  So here in the Land of Different Cultural Practices Than The West, well, it's just different. 

So embrace it.  It is sure a healthier perspective than the morbidity of Western funerals. 

You forget, the card games and other betting things going on.

[jts-khorat]

36 minutes ago, kimamey said:

True. Sounds a bit like vanity to me which I thought wasn't very Buddhist. I did read up on Theravada Buddhism when I first came here, but I gave up when I realised it was nothing like what I was seeing.

 

I think you read the wrong things then. Theravada Buddhism in itself is actually quite a logical setup and its basic tenets are reflected well in Thai/Isaan culture.

 

But the same as you would not expect anybody in the west to eat only fish or beaver meat on Fridays or pray to a specific different saint each day or do daily bible studies in the circle of your family each evening, obviously popular culture is unlikely to have ever been an exact match to religious orthodoxy. It is not different in Thailand.

[Andycoops]

People imposing their western, so called values/culture on Isaan folk really pisses me off.

We had a Swiss guy here recently who got involved in a Thai family's funeral because he didn't like them taking photos of the corpse in the coffin.

I have seen this many times in my 15 years here but this prick just had to say, no, no you can't do that.

Subsequently he's been told to go back to whence he came if he doesn't like it.

Arrogant farang with no respect for other people's culture.

[Stevey]

On 2/6/2024 at 8:38 AM, udontomi said:

We "farang" are visitors/guests in Thailand (Isaan) and should remember that as such we should either accept our hosts' culture or leave!

Be quiet. 

[Stevey]

On 2/5/2024 at 4:05 PM, kimamey said:

With the monk I got a strange video of a couple of trays of bones with members of the family picking out which ones they wanted.

I don’t know how eager I’d be to get some bones. 

[AndyAndyAndy]

They don't take it very seriously here in the Isaan village. I'm getting a call at 1:30 am; a local farang I knew just died. His wife wants us to come there because she doesn't have many other people to call. So we go there. Of course, there's also a local electric blackout. So we enter the bedroom, with a body that was alive just 45 minutes ago. We're using just flashlights. I'm about to have a panic attack or pass out there. And they're just in the process of changing him into burial clothes and cracking never-ending jokes about his current penis size. With the wife leading the way. Surreal. 😳

 

[Stevey]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:32 PM, kimamey said:

True. Sounds a bit like vanity to me which I thought wasn't very Buddhist. I did read up on Theravada Buddhism when I first came here, but I gave up when I realised it was nothing like what I was seeing.

The whole religion is absolute 8ull5hit here. My girlfriend’s Father has just given up working at 70 plus. He now about to join the monk hood.  I had a big fall out with my missus I’ve documented it here and my 5 year old step son told me he had told him in Thai “Haam Hak Steve”. Saying he Forbids him to love me. The stuff I did for that guy built him a solar system and paid for half of it ! He steadfastly will not vaccinate any of his dogs. He has zero compassion and re-married quickly after his wife died. Total 5hithouse

 

 

 

[soi3eddie]

I've been to more Thai funerals than weddings. So many villagers and relatives in my ex-wife's village. Once we are dead we are dead. Nothing morbid IMO. They get on with the rites and ceremony then life recommences. What else do we expect? Some old and ill people who lived longer than they should have. Some young teenagers in the prime of life but riding motorcycles recklessly. Some (a relative only 45yrs dying of lung cancer having never smoked). Tragic situations. 

I went to the funeral of Graham Briar in Chiang Rai, out of respect for someone I admired. Incredibly moving and poignant for a British gentleman who died in unfortunate circumstances after heart surgery as a smoker who should have known better. Does not detract from the loss felt by his partner Pie and her family and friends. The full funeral video is below for those who have never seen the day of going to the temple for the "burning of the body". 

 

 

[ChrisP24]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:26 AM, Andycoops said:

People imposing their western, so called values/culture on Isaan folk really pisses me off.

We had a Swiss guy here recently who got involved in a Thai family's funeral because he didn't like them taking photos of the corpse in the coffin.

I have seen this many times in my 15 years here but this prick just had to say, no, no you can't do that.

Subsequently he's been told to go back to whence he came if he doesn't like it.

Arrogant farang with no respect for other people's culture.

 

Yes, there are cultural differences, sometimes extreme ones.  It's good to always keep in mind that we are visitors.

 

I was a longtime subscriber to Graham's youtube channel and was sad to learn of his passing a few years back.  He was so upbeat and happy, always excited at sharing the various projects he and his Thai wife had going out on their several rai of land.  I recall that Pie kept the channel going for a while afterward, but it no longer shows up in my feed so I'm not sure if it's still active.

 

My wife is from the Philippines, and tells me that growing up in the province, it was common practice for the deceased to be displayed in a coffin in the family home for several days up to a week, while friends and extended family rotated in and out to hold vigil.  During the vigil, there was food, drinking, gambling, gossiping, and probably even some karaoke, a bit like a party - - more somber of course but not entirely unfestive either.   Seems like a good way to say farewell and help the family through the grieving process. 

 

 

[NanLaew]

On 2/5/2024 at 3:06 PM, Will B Good said:

Yes...... it is incredibly quiet past 7pm....dead, unless, as you say, there's an event......then all hell breaks loose.....for days.

 

Wot? No roosters? You're 'avin a larf.

 

On 2/6/2024 at 11:04 AM, giddyup said:

Respect would have been to get the dog vaccinated.

 

Odd the things that some folks take as important from other folk's experiences.

 

On 2/6/2024 at 12:06 PM, dick turpin said:

Just returned from the home village in Isaan

where there has been a spate of passings,

so the red shirts are out in force on the

gate post to ward off the evil spirits.

 

Used to think they were all Liverpool

supporters.

 

The red stuff plastered all about is for Chinese New Year.

 

 

[ericthai]

This was for one of our workers several years ago.  Our company did pay, but this was a poor temple so it was still an outside ceremony.

[ericthai]

I would say theses pictures are more of a normal funeral in the small villages.  This was one of our neighbors a few years ago.

[dick turpin]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

Wot? No roosters? You're 'avin a larf.

 

 

Odd the things that some folks take as important from other folk's experiences.

 

 

The red stuff plastered all about is for Chinese New Year.

 

 

 

Wrong.....you obviously don't  know Isaan.

[Denim]

On 2/6/2024 at 8:38 AM, udontomi said:

We "farang" are visitors/guests in Thailand (Isaan) and should remember that as such we should either accept our hosts' culture or leave!

 

Nope. If I see something  I don't  like I just ignore it. I don't bother  trying to change their mind set , up to them . Equally,  my own mind set is up to me.

Each to his own.

To be fare , nobody has ever tried to persuade me to be more Thai. They accept me as I am.

 

As for my funeral  I think I would prefer a simple buried in an old sheet. Gave up smoking years ago so no point spoiling my achievement by getting cremated. Waste of good fuel.

[connda]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:01 PM, youreavinalaff said:

The ceremonies and parties do not last 100 days.

You are absolutely correct.  You read something in my post that was not there.

It was a party on the 100th day after the death.  Not at the end of a 100 day party. 

[connda]

On 2/6/2024 at 4:26 PM, Andycoops said:

People imposing their western, so called values/culture on Isaan folk really pisses me off.

We had a Swiss guy here recently who got involved in a Thai family's funeral because he didn't like them taking photos of the corpse in the coffin.

I have seen this many times in my 15 years here but this prick just had to say, no, no you can't do that.

Subsequently he's been told to go back to whence he came if he doesn't like it.

Arrogant farang with no respect for other people's culture.

Skillful - Taking the foreigner aside and discussing the differences between Thai and Western cultures.
Unskillful - Getting as angry and worked up over a misunderstanding of cultural norms.

Why get angry?  We Westerners who have taken the opportunity to integrate into Thai culture know both sides of the story.  It is what it is.

[connda]

17 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

I've been to more Thai funerals than weddings. So many villagers and relatives in my ex-wife's village. Once we are dead we are dead. Nothing morbid IMO. They get on with the rites and ceremony then life recommences. What else do we expect? Some old and ill people who lived longer than they should have. Some young teenagers in the prime of life but riding motorcycles recklessly. Some (a relative only 45yrs dying of lung cancer having never smoked). Tragic situations. 

I went to the funeral of Graham Briar in Chiang Rai, out of respect for someone I admired. Incredibly moving and poignant for a British gentleman who died in unfortunate circumstances after heart surgery as a smoker who should have known better. Does not detract from the loss felt by his partner Pie and her family and friends. The full funeral video is below for those who have never seen the day of going to the temple for the "burning of the body". 

 

 

Thanks for posting that.  It's instructive for farangs who have not encountered a Thai funeral. 

[connda]

17 hours ago, ChrisP24 said:

Yes, there are cultural differences, sometimes extreme ones.  It's good to always keep in mind that we are visitors.

We are not 'visitors' or 'guests' other then in the sense of Thai immigration law.

If I was a foreign woman married to a Thai guy, especially if the foreign woman had his child, then she'd be eligible for citizenship.

Thai immigration does not extend that to foreign men married to Thai women.
It's the Thai Immigration laws that keep foreign men married to Thai women just 'temporary guests' after 15, 20, 25+ years of marriage while living in Thailand.

Foreign women married to Thai men?  For a women with a Thai child it's citizenship in one year.  Other women the path is three years to being allowed to gain citizenship and truly plant roots.

If the same was extended to me after being married and living here 16 years?  I'd have firm roots planted too.  But?  Thai immigration digs up the roots of foreign men married to Thai women once a year and tosses them on the ground.  Then ya gotta replant.  It's the way it is.  Does it suck?  Yep.  Can you do anything about it?  Nope.
 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, connda said:

You are absolutely correct.  You read something in my post that was not there.

It was a party on the 100th day after the death.  Not at the end of a 100 day party. 

Well, you replied to a post suggesting the parties can go on for four days with " sometimes 100 days, jing".

[youreavinalaff]

12 hours ago, Denim said:

 

Nope. If I see something  I don't  like I just ignore it. I don't bother  trying to change their mind set , up to them . Equally,  my own mind set is up to me.

Each to his own.

To be fare , nobody has ever tried to persuade me to be more Thai. They accept me as I am.

 

As for my funeral  I think I would prefer a simple buried in an old sheet. Gave up smoking years ago so no point spoiling my achievement by getting cremated. Waste of good fuel.

So, you accept it the way it is.

 

You should have started your reply with "yep" not "nope".