Despite U.S. pressure, the idea of a Palestinian state seems farther away than ever

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

How many Palestinians have you actually personally interviewed to reach that conclusion and when?

Rhetorical question? I'm guessing, but likely to be less than one.

[retarius]

I simply do not believe a word the US government says any more. Supporting a Palestinian state? Yes while vetoing a UN humanitarian resolution to have a cease fire. Watch what the US do and believe that. The words they utter have no bias in truth. 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, retarius said:

I simply do not believe a word the US government says any more. Supporting a Palestinian state? Yes while vetoing a UN humanitarian resolution to have a cease fire. Watch what the US do and believe that. The words they utter have no bias in truth. 

Do you believe what Hamas says?

[Nick Carter icp]

9 minutes ago, retarius said:

I simply do not believe a word the US government says any more. Supporting a Palestinian state? Yes while vetoing a UN humanitarian resolution to have a cease fire. Watch what the US do and believe that. The words they utter have no bias in truth. 

 

   Logic says that the USA would like a Palestine state without Hamas being there . Wipe Hamas out and then move on from there 

[Jeff the Chef]

The International Court of Justice (ICJ) holds public hearings in the advisory proceedings on the Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem.

The International Court of Justice (ICJ), the principal judicial organ of the United Nations, holds public hearings on the request for an advisory opinion on the Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, from 19 to 26 February 2024, at the Peace Palace in The Hague, the seat of the Court. Session held under the presidency of Judge Nawaf Salam, President of the Court.

 

https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1g/k1ggyabo49

Edited February 21 by Jeff the Chef

[ozimoron]

Netanyahu Has Spent Career Derailing a Palestinian State

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

The proverbial is going to hit the fan after China's contribution at the ICJ hearing on the Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem.

 

Written statement of China: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20230725-wri-21-00-en.pdf

 

Video/YouTube from the Guardian News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwq7jfJfwOI&ab_channel=GuardianNews

 

[Neeranam]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:29 AM, Social Media said:

As Israel grapples with the aftermath of the war,

Erm, Gazans are grappling just a tad more🤔

[Rimmer]

Conspiracy troll post and reply removed

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

The proverbial is going to hit the fan after China's contribution at the ICJ hearing on the Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem.

 

Written statement of China: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20230725-wri-21-00-en.pdf

 

Video/YouTube from the Guardian News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwq7jfJfwOI&ab_channel=GuardianNews

 

Must be the first time I've agreed with anything from official China.

[Jeff the Chef]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Must be the first time I've agreed with anything from official China.

I spent a lot of time going over both the written and verbal statements and I'm now questioning a lot about China and what us the great unwashed are told by western governments and mass media.

[placeholder]

8 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

The proverbial is going to hit the fan after China's contribution at the ICJ hearing on the Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem.

 

Written statement of China: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20230725-wri-21-00-en.pdf

 

Video/YouTube from the Guardian News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwq7jfJfwOI&ab_channel=GuardianNews

 

Will it be sighting the example of Tibet to support its case?

[Jeff the Chef]

26 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Will it be sighting the example of Tibet to support its case?

I understand what you mean but that is for another time, and nothing to do with this topic.

[Jeff the Chef]

Norway's turn yesterday, and they went full Anti-Israel.

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240209-pre-01-00-en.pdf

 

Full Norwegian transcript, on pages 20 to 32:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240223-ora-01-00-bi.pdf

 

 

[ozimoron]

14 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Norway's turn yesterday, and they went full Anti-Israel.

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240209-pre-01-00-en.pdf

 

Full Norwegian transcript, on pages 20 to 32:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240223-ora-01-00-bi.pdf

 

 

 

First para in submission by Norway

 

2. Israel’s occupation of Palestinian Territory has continued since 1967. Recent developments give rise to the utmost concern. They include ongoing indiscriminate and disproportionate use of force and other measures in the Gaza Strip, as well as illegal settlements in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. House evictions, demolitions, forced displacement and settler violence against the Palestinian population are aspects of the Israeli occupation.

[Bkk Brian]

38 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Norway's turn yesterday, and they went full Anti-Israel.

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240209-pre-01-00-en.pdf

 

Full Norwegian transcript, on pages 20 to 32:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240223-ora-01-00-bi.pdf

 

 

Not surprisingly, I different take from Biden and the US

 

U.S. Defends Israel’s Occupation of the West Bank at Top U.N. Court

The United States on Wednesday defended Israel’s decades-long occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, arguing at the U.N.’s highest court that Israel faced “very real security needs.”

The defense came a day after the United States issued its third veto against a call for an immediate cease-fire in Gaza at the United Nations Security Council, a vote that drew an angry response from nations and aid groups that have urged a stop to the fighting to help Gaza’s civilians.

The latest show of American support for Israel was at the International Court of Justice in The Hague, where Richard C. Visek, the acting legal adviser at the U.S. State Department, urged a 15-judge panel not to call for Israel’s immediate withdrawal from occupied Palestinian territory.

https://archive.ph/bnmd2

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/world/middleeast/us-israel-hague-court.html

[Rimmer]

A post linking to a paywall site has been removed

[Jeff the Chef]

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not surprisingly, I different take from Biden and the US

 

U.S. Defends Israel’s Occupation of the West Bank at Top U.N. Court

The United States on Wednesday defended Israel’s decades-long occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, arguing at the U.N.’s highest court that Israel faced “very real security needs.”

The defense came a day after the United States issued its third veto against a call for an immediate cease-fire in Gaza at the United Nations Security Council, a vote that drew an angry response from nations and aid groups that have urged a stop to the fighting to help Gaza’s civilians.

The latest show of American support for Israel was at the International Court of Justice in The Hague, where Richard C. Visek, the acting legal adviser at the U.S. State Department, urged a 15-judge panel not to call for Israel’s immediate withdrawal from occupied Palestinian territory.

https://archive.ph/bnmd2

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/world/middleeast/us-israel-hague-court.html

 

Verbatim record in full from page 48 to 57:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240221-ora-01-0-bi.pdf

 

 

[ozimoron]

23 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not surprisingly, I different take from Biden and the US

 

U.S. Defends Israel’s Occupation of the West Bank at Top U.N. Court

The United States on Wednesday defended Israel’s decades-long occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, arguing at the U.N.’s highest court that Israel faced “very real security needs.”

The defense came a day after the United States issued its third veto against a call for an immediate cease-fire in Gaza at the United Nations Security Council, a vote that drew an angry response from nations and aid groups that have urged a stop to the fighting to help Gaza’s civilians.

The latest show of American support for Israel was at the International Court of Justice in The Hague, where Richard C. Visek, the acting legal adviser at the U.S. State Department, urged a 15-judge panel not to call for Israel’s immediate withdrawal from occupied Palestinian territory.

https://archive.ph/bnmd2

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/world/middleeast/us-israel-hague-court.html

 

From your link

 

He said that only the establishment of an independent Palestinian state “living safely and securely alongside” Israel could bring about lasting peace, repeating a longstanding U.S. position, but the prospect of which appears even more elusive amid the war in Gaza.

 

“This conflict cannot be resolved through violence or unilateral actions,” Mr. Visek said. “Negotiations are the path to a lasting peace.”

 

and

 

“One only needs to look at Israel’s vicious wholesale destruction of Gaza today after years of imposing the medieval methods, a siege and blockade, to realize the extent of Israel’s transgression of this principle,” she said.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, ozimoron said:

 

From your link

 

He said that only the establishment of an independent Palestinian state “living safely and securely alongside” Israel could bring about lasting peace, repeating a longstanding U.S. position, but the prospect of which appears even more elusive amid the war in Gaza.

 

“This conflict cannot be resolved through violence or unilateral actions,” Mr. Visek said. “Negotiations are the path to a lasting peace.”

 

and

 

“One only needs to look at Israel’s vicious wholesale destruction of Gaza today after years of imposing the medieval methods, a siege and blockade, to realize the extent of Israel’s transgression of this principle,” she said.

I read my link. No need to read again. 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Verbatim record in full from page 48 to 57:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240221-ora-01-0-bi.pdf

 

 

Ensure you read it all then. 

[Jeff the Chef]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Ensure you read it all then. 

Watched it live, and read the transcript, also the Written statement of the United States of America:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20230725-wri-20-00-en.pdf

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Watched it live, and read the transcript, also the Written statement of the United States of America:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20230725-wri-20-00-en.pdf

Goodie...

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/24/2024 at 4:47 PM, Jeff the Chef said:

Norway's turn yesterday, and they went full Anti-Israel.

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240209-pre-01-00-en.pdf

 

Full Norwegian transcript, on pages 20 to 32:

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240223-ora-01-00-bi.pdf

 

 

Excellent to see at least one western nation not bending over for israeli interests.

[Bkk Brian]

Interesting..........

 

Palestinian prime minister submits government’s resignation, a move that could open door to reforms

Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh says his government is resigning, in a move that could open the door to U.S.-backed reforms in the Palestinian Authority.

President Mahmoud Abbas must still decide whether he accepts Shtayyeh and his government’s resignation, tendered Monday. But the move signals a willingness by the Western-backed Palestinian leadership to accept shake-up that might usher in reforms seen as necessary to revitalize the Palestinian Authority.

The U.S. wants a reformed Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza once the war is over. But many obstacles remain to making that vision a reality.

https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-abbas-israel-hamas-war-resignation-1c13eb3c2ded20cc14397e71b5b1dea5

[Jeff the Chef]

45 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Interesting..........

 

Palestinian prime minister submits government’s resignation, a move that could open door to reforms

Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammed Shtayyeh says his government is resigning, in a move that could open the door to U.S.-backed reforms in the Palestinian Authority.

President Mahmoud Abbas must still decide whether he accepts Shtayyeh and his government’s resignation, tendered Monday. But the move signals a willingness by the Western-backed Palestinian leadership to accept shake-up that might usher in reforms seen as necessary to revitalize the Palestinian Authority.

The U.S. wants a reformed Palestinian Authority to govern Gaza once the war is over. But many obstacles remain to making that vision a reality.

https://apnews.com/article/palestinians-abbas-israel-hamas-war-resignation-1c13eb3c2ded20cc14397e71b5b1dea5

No reaction from Israel, but that's OK because the U.S. want a reformed P.A. to govern Gaza once the war is over.

I think someone needs to ask the Palestinians in Gaza what they want, maybe a free and fair election of all Palestinians in the Occupied Territories including Gaza. 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

No reaction from Israel, but that's OK because the U.S. want a reformed P.A. to govern Gaza once the war is over.

I think someone needs to ask the Palestinians in Gaza what they want, maybe a free and fair election of all Palestinians in the Occupied Territories including Gaza. 

Patience, no reaction from anyone yet that I've read....lol

[Jeff the Chef]

Today's Public hearing at the I.C.J. Monday 26 February 2024

 

10 a.m.-10.30 a.m. Türkiye
10.30 a.m.-11 a.m. Zambia
11 a.m.-11.30 a.m. League of Arab States
11.30 a.m.-11.40 a.m. Break
11.40 a.m.-12.10 p.m. Organisation of Islamic Cooperation
12.10 p.m.-12.40 p.m. African Union
3 p.m.-3.30 p.m. Spain
3.30 p.m.-4 p.m. Fiji
4 p.m.-4.30 p.m. Maldives

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Today's Public hearing at the I.C.J. Monday 26 February 2024

 

10 a.m.-10.30 a.m. Türkiye
10.30 a.m.-11 a.m. Zambia
11 a.m.-11.30 a.m. League of Arab States
11.30 a.m.-11.40 a.m. Break
11.40 a.m.-12.10 p.m. Organisation of Islamic Cooperation
12.10 p.m.-12.40 p.m. African Union
3 p.m.-3.30 p.m. Spain
3.30 p.m.-4 p.m. Fiji
4 p.m.-4.30 p.m. Maldives

All lining up to contribute, but knowing that it's all pointless as the US will just veto anything that holds israel to account. It's a Claytons court, a court that can't actually make anything happen.

Apparently 50 or so nations will be calling for an immediate ceasefire, but because the UN is an IMO useless organisation, one country ( the US ) can give the finger to the rest of the world.

Gaza has exposed for all to see what a sham it is. For decades israel has been ignoring UN resolutions because their partner in crime, the US is using the veto.

IMO it's time for either the UN to be reformed, or every other nation to start a new one.

The between wars version, the League of Nations, was dumped, so no reason to have to keep using a rigged one.

[Jeff the Chef]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

All lining up to contribute, but knowing that it's all pointless as the US will just veto anything that holds israel to account. It's a Claytons court, a court that can't actually make anything happen.

Apparently 50 or so nations will be calling for an immediate ceasefire, but because the UN is an IMO useless organisation, one country ( the US ) can give the finger to the rest of the world.

Gaza has exposed for all to see what a sham it is. For decades israel has been ignoring UN resolutions because their partner in crime, the US is using the veto.

IMO it's time for either the UN to be reformed, or every other nation to start a new one.

The between wars version, the League of Nations, was dumped, so no reason to have to keep using a rigged one.

Whilst I understand your point of view, I think we can only wait and see how the ICJ rules having taken all the evidence/views of the Nation States who came before the Court.