Controversy erupts as Thai doctors clash over mRNA vaccine effect

[dinsdale]

30 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

 

It sounds like you don't understand the concept of excess deaths.

Excess deaths chart from Australia. Sept 23 there were 8 deaths in Australia attributed to Covid. I don't think this would take excess deaths above 5% do you? 

 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=~AUS

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

Excess mortality: Cumulative deaths from all causes compared to
projection based on previous years

 

Edited February 22 by dinsdale

[Danderman123]

4 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Excess deaths chart from Australia.

 https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-mortality-p-scores-projected-baseline?tab=chart&country=~AUS

Excess mortality: Cumulative deaths from all causes compared to
projection based on previous years

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-20/mortality-rates-australia-covid-excess/103241640

 

Some explanation for Australia 2023 excess deaths. It's not just Covid, there's a lot of deaths that had Covid as a secondary cause.

[Roo Island]

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Agree. Doctors and scientists at the time and still are being pressured or down right threatened to toe the line. Publications in agreeance with the narrative were published and those that weren't with the narrative were not. Social media was and still is being censored. If everything was and is what they say then why is there suppression and censorship? Why has freedom of speech diminished so much since 2020? If I was veiwing this from the outside I would strongly suspect something was being covered up.

Pure conspiracy theory. Wow.

[GroveHillWanderer]

13 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

April 2021:
Pfizer, Moderna vaccines stop infections in real-world study
CDC report suggests shots cut transmission, not just illnesses
https://www.tbsnews.net/coronavirus-chronicle/pfizer-moderna-vaccines-stop-infections-real-world-study-238285

CDC Data Suggests Vaccinated Don’t Carry, Can’t Spread Virus
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/04/cdc-data-suggests-vaccinated-dont-carry-cant-spread-virus.html
 

Both those headlines mischaracterise the CDC report that they are based on.

 

What the report said (and you can see this by following the links) was that:

 

Quote

"... these two mRNA vaccines can reduce the risk of all SARS-CoV-2 infections, not just symptomatic infections," the CDC said in a statement.

 

So it's absolutely crystal clear that the CDC data said the vaccine would reduce, not stop infections.

 

You need to read past the headlines. These are usually written by sub-editors who aren't the people who wrote the articles and who often don't actually completely understand the full import of the article. Their job is just to write headlines that will catch people's attention.

[ozimoron]

Two new but exceptionally rare Covid-19 vaccine side effects – a neurological disorder and inflammation of the spinal cord – have been detected by researchers in the largest vaccine safety study to date.

 

The study of more than 99 million people from Australia, Argentina, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, New Zealand and Scotland also confirmed how rare known vaccine complications are, with researchers confirming that the benefits of Covid-19 vaccines still “vastly outweigh the risks”.

 

But a new rare side-effect, acute disseminated encephalomyelitis – an inflammation and swelling in the brain and spinal cord – was also identified in the data analysis as being linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/23/two-very-rare-covid-vaccine-side-effects-detected-in-global-study-of-99-million

 

Edited February 22 by ozimoron

[Amethyst]

Several off topic diversion posts have been removed.

 

[kiwikeith]

On 2/22/2024 at 12:42 AM, johng said:

Oopps !!!!!  Safe and Effective

 

There is also an article in the paper that cannot be named on here  entitled

Long Covid, vaccines may cause disease and death: Chula, Rangsit

 

also a new study

COVID-19 vaccines and adverse events of special interest: A multinational Global Vaccine Data Network (GVDN) cohort study of 99 million vaccinated individuals.

found here

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.vaccine.2024.01.100

which concludes

While our study confirmed previously iden­tified

rare safety signals following COVID-19 vaccination and contributed evidence on several other important outcomes, further
investigation is warranted to confirm associations and assess clinical
significance.

You can watch the video yourself, one thing the mortician did say and was permitted on the chanel was that these clots do not form after death, he said nothing grows after death, he also said that he has reported this to British medical authorities and to the police and has no answers from them. 

They are not commenting. 

So further research is needed as now 70 morticians have joined in also discovering this yet to be explained phenomenon, we will have to wait and see what comes from this. 

[Robert Paulson]

There were a group of individuals blatantly overstating the safe and effective mantra here in the forums. One of them the username initials are CH. These guys were quite literally “safe and effective”… “safe and effective”… “safe and effective”.

 

Funny how they were the most outspoken in those threads back then, and now they are nowhere to be found. I guess the proverbial cat got the tongue 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Robert Paulson said:

There were a group of individuals blatantly overstating the safe and effective mantra here in the forums. One of them the username initials are CH. These guys were quite literally “safe and effective”… “safe and effective”… “safe and effective”.

 

Funny how they were the most outspoken in those threads back then, and now they are nowhere to be found. I guess the proverbial cat got the tongue 

 

Wake me up when you got evidence that serious side effects cause even a millionth of the number of lives lost due to covid itself.

[Robert Paulson]

The real irony about vaccine misinformation and which information likely caused the most harm is that the Rachel maddow “it stops the virus dead in its tracks with every vaccinated person”… this was likely to be an actual source of deadly misinformation because people would have taken the vaccine and basically believed themselves to be immune. Notice also they never retracted that story and the story was never labeled as misinformation. Interesting how that works. 

[ozimoron]

21 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

The real irony about vaccine misinformation and which information likely caused the most harm is that the Rachel maddow “it stops the virus dead in its tracks with every vaccinated person”… this was likely to be an actual source of deadly misinformation because people would have taken the vaccine and basically believed themselves to be immune. Notice also they never retracted that story and the story was never labeled as misinformation. Interesting how that works. 

 

What are Maddow's qualifications here? Oh, right, nothing.

[Amethyst]

Multiple posts with unsourced and unsubstantiated factual claims have been removed, along with related replies.

 

[Roo Island]

https://www.vox.com/recode/2021/7/15/22578924/surgeon-general-vivek-murthy-misinformation-covid-vaccine-social-media-public-health-threat

 

 The surgeon general wants Facebook to do more to stop Covid-19 lies 

 

Dr. Vivek Murthy considers social media misinformation to be a deadly public health threat.

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, jaywalker2 said:

Two points: all of the adverse events are extremely rare and most seem to be due to the Astra Zeneca vaccine, which was never offered in the US and is no longer offered in Europe (Are they still offering it here?)

That is garbage, problems with other vaccines are emering as time goes by.

The few problems attributed to AZ over platlets is nothing new, first seen in the 1930s and took 30 years to be attributed to heparin, a drug that is still being used. All about benefit/risk analysis.

The reason it was never offered in US was down to manufacturing logistics with the UK and EU fighting over production.

You should refrain from unsubstantiated implications.

[jaywalker2]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

That is garbage, problems with other vaccines are emering as time goes by.

The few problems attributed to AZ over platlets is nothing new, first seen in the 1930s and took 30 years to be attributed to heparin, a drug that is still being used. All about benefit/risk analysis.

The reason it was never offered in US was down to manufacturing logistics with the UK and EU fighting over production.

You should refrain from unsubstantiated implications.

It has never been approved for us in the US. That's just a fact. Its use was suspended in the EU because of the blood clot problem. It has since also been taken off the market in the UK.

 

The mRNA vaccines have proven both more effective and safer, according to health experts.

 

 

[jaywalker2]

4 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

You can watch the video yourself, one thing the mortician did say and was permitted on the chanel was that these clots do not form after death, he said nothing grows after death, he also said that he has reported this to British medical authorities and to the police and has no answers from them. 

They are not commenting. 

So further research is needed as now 70 morticians have joined in also discovering this yet to be explained phenomenon, we will have to wait and see what comes from this. 

educate yourself:

 

 

[Robert Paulson]

The real problem with this discussion going on here is you have people swearing the vaccines are safe and effective still, yet I bet these same people aren’t getting boosted. They aren’t getting their six month old children boosted and vaccinated, as the cdc recommends. And the vaccination and booster uptake proves this. So you have a group of people arguing and they are not even taking the thing they are arguing for. It’s difficult to even make it up. It’s some form of neurosis. 

[mstevens]

On 2/22/2024 at 2:59 AM, proton said:

 

Spot on, some see 'Dr' and 'Phd' and think that's an unquestionable source, no matter how far away his research was years ago from what he's talking about today. Digital media and teaching have nothing to do with corona viruses or vaccines. Campbell is just another digital opportunist cashing in on peoples worries.

 

In this case, Campbell is but the interviewer.

 

As for Campbell being an opportunist, you do know that the money he makes from his channel goes to medical facilities in Africa to help people in rural areas. He has done countless videos from the clinics he supports in Africa. Campbell is not someone living high on the hog.

 

If you disagree with the people Campbell has interviewed then so be it. That's your right. But no need to tell fibs about him.

[Roo Island]

1 hour ago, Robert Paulson said:

The real problem with this discussion going on here is you have people swearing the vaccines are safe and effective still, yet I bet these same people aren’t getting boosted. They aren’t getting their six month old children boosted and vaccinated, as the cdc recommends. And the vaccination and booster uptake proves this. So you have a group of people arguing and they are not even taking the thing they are arguing for. It’s difficult to even make it up. It’s some form of neurosis. 

I think very few swear that the vaccines are 100% safe. But most agree that they are effective.

 

Some avoid them due to the massive amount of misinformation out there. Like this kook. Sadly, he makes a ton of money off his misinformation. And sadly, many fall for it and avoid the jab.

 

Take advice from your personal physician, not kooks on social media.

[Roo Island]

1 hour ago, mstevens said:

 

In this case, Campbell is but the interviewer.

 

As for Campbell being an opportunist, you do know that the money he makes from his channel goes to medical facilities in Africa to help people in rural areas. He has done countless videos from the clinics he supports in Africa. Campbell is not someone living high on the hog.

 

If you disagree with the people Campbell has interviewed then so be it. That's your right. But no need to tell fibs about him.

He's publishing misinformation and profiting off it. Shame on him

[Robert Paulson]

10 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

I think very few swear that the vaccines are 100% safe. But most agree that they are effective.

 

Some avoid them due to the massive amount of misinformation out there. Like this kook. Sadly, he makes a ton of money off his misinformation. And sadly, many fall for it and avoid the jab.

 

Take advice from your personal physician, not kooks on social media.

People making money off of misinformation are in the nightly news. Rachel maddow makes 40k per day and reported misinformation that was never addressed or corrected. That’s a literal fact. She said vaccines stop transmission. Little guys struggling to get a few views on yt are not the ones profiting you have go to be kidding me. 
 

idk why it’s hard for people to understand this but who has lost revenue or jobs during the covid situation. There was even a letter sent out by the medical board telling all doctors they would lose their license if they spread covid “misinformation”: that obviously meant to keep the corporate covid narrative going btw.

 

soim not sure where or how u get this idea all the people who suffered and lost their jobs are the ones profiting lol. Look up Aaron kheriaty of Jay battacharia. Let me know how much they profited as they told you their views about covid.the big hint is the people who got fired and demoted and censored were the ones telling you the truth. 

Edited February 23 by Robert Paulson

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

People making money off of misinformation are in the nightly news. Rachel maddow makes 40k per day and reported misinformation that was never addressed or corrected. That’s a literal fact. She said vaccines stop transmission. Little guys struggling to get a few views on yt are not the ones profiting you have go to be kidding me. 

 

Maddow has no more credibility on this issue than you do. It was also said long ago.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

The real problem with this discussion going on here is you have people swearing the vaccines are safe and effective still, yet I bet these same people aren’t getting boosted. They aren’t getting their six month old children boosted and vaccinated, as the cdc recommends. And the vaccination and booster uptake proves this. So you have a group of people arguing and they are not even taking the thing they are arguing for. It’s difficult to even make it up. It’s some form of neurosis. 

 

More garbage. I've had 5. If the next upgraded vaccine becomes available in Thailand I'll get it for sure.

[Robert Paulson]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Maddow has no more credibility on this issue than you do. It was also said long ago.

It’s kinda cute you think you’re making a point. The main stream media feeding the people information and you buying it is in fact very important, whether you realize it or not. You do realize they get their information from the “professionals”, right? Where do you think Rachel maddow got that info, you think she did a randomized trial in her living room. Seriously wake up. 

 

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

More garbage. I've had 5. If the next upgraded vaccine becomes available in Thailand I'll get it for sure.

I think that’s great. Vaccinate and boost your six month old children and all the insane stuff the cdc tells you. It’s fine with me. No argument there. 

Edited February 23 by Robert Paulson

[PremiumLane]

19 hours ago, smedly said:

I don't have access to all the information, all I know the numbers of excess deaths post covid which IMO warrants a look into and an explanation

 

Dude, trust me, bro!!!

[PremiumLane]

20 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Dr. Susan Oliver was often on TV pushing the narrative. Bit like saying Fauchi tells the truth really. 

 

Ahh you mean she cites studies and research, and not her feels?

[pomchop]

21 hours ago, johng said:

There are other doctors and experts

raising alarm bells...experts can be wrong,  everyone should continuously question "the experts"

scientific opinion, without critical questioning it's just religion.

i have no problem with experts questioning experts...i do have a problem with people who have zero training or long term study or first hand experience on an issue pretending to be experts like we see so often on this forum...as RR said back when republicans actually made some sense...trust but verify....still good advice today that unfortunately has turned into say whatever the hell you want and make up all kinds of BS conspiracy theories and spread it like wildfire to brain dead followers who buy it hook line and sinker and even when proven wrong over and over with massive evidence and facts still claim it is all true because they want it to be true.

[Kevin Taylor]

Dr John Cambel is an interesting man. I followed his channel all through the covid nonsense. At the start he was very pro masking pro lockdown and pro vaccine he would basically repeat what the health department were saying. Over time he did a 180 on all those things. To the point he did one episode where he made a formal apology to all his viewers apologising for repeating wrong information and said basically his whole career he had been taught to trust the so called experts and beuracrats in the health department. Since then he has been on a bit of a tear questioning everything the government said. For those that doubt him he always quotes his sources and adds the links to the studies that he is quoting from. All in all a good man who is trying to educate the public on health matters. Which more than can be said for most media and governments.

[Mark Nothing]

I am antivax.  Common sense dictates the theories they are following require reevaluating.

[jaywalker2]

4 hours ago, Robert Paulson said:

The real problem with this discussion going on here is you have people swearing the vaccines are safe and effective still, yet I bet these same people aren’t getting boosted. They aren’t getting their six month old children boosted and vaccinated, as the cdc recommends. And the vaccination and booster uptake proves this. So you have a group of people arguing and they are not even taking the thing they are arguing for. It’s difficult to even make it up. It’s some form of neurosis. 

Look, whether you do or don't get boosted has absolutely nothing to do with whether the vaccines are safe. Whether you're a Republican, a Democrat., whether you believe in science or fairies, whether you support Joe Biden or Donald Trump, whether you're on a keto diet or drink 10 cans of Pepsi a day has nothing to do with whether the vaccines are safe. 

 

That has to do with an evaluation of the evidence, not personal behavior or beliefs.